VA disinters cop killer
The Oregonian reports that the earthly remains of 88-year-old Lawrence Cambra have been removed from a veterans’ cemetery in Willamette, OR. Cambra killed Officer Robert Libke after the officer responded to the fire that Cambra started in his house, then Cambra killed himself. According to the Stars & Stripes, the Hillside Chapel, which acted as Cambra’s next of kin, lied on the application for a veterans burial;
After a story in The Oregonian alerted the VA that Cambra might not qualify for placement at a military cemetery, the VA contacted Hillside, which took possession of the remains, Phillips said.
Hillside Chapel owner David Bone declined comment. “I have nothing to say,” Bone said.
It is unclear what will become of Lawrence Cambra’s ashes.
Public records indicate that Cambra enlisted in the U.S. Army Air Corps in Hawaii on Dec. 15, 1945.
That’s good. I don’t want to spend eternity next to a criminal, especially a cop-killer.
Category: Veterans Issues
This is a difficult one. It is our military service, if it was honorable, which qualifies us for a spot in a veterans cemetery. What we do after that should not matter.
I do not like situational ethics much. Either he earned a place or he did not. Once earned, what criteria should be used to take away something which was earned? And who gets to make that decision?
(No, I have no sympathy for cop killers either. No, I don’t want to be buried with one either. But, the veterans cemetery is there to honor the service we gave to our country. Nothing more or less.)
Honorable service may qualify you for burial in a military cemetery but subsequent mis-behaviour of this magnitude certainly is a factor. The type of factor where I wouldn’t want my buddies who are at Willamette to have this man who took the life of another and ended his life as a piece of feces laid anywhere near them. The article indicates he didn’t qualify for burial in a VA cemetery so the action appears doubly justified and the funeral home should be prosecuted for this and all other fraudulent burials. BTW – I usually flush turds and ashes down the toilet. (that all said, it is sad we have yet to craft a better system to deal with folks who become deranged)
I concur, RoBanJo. If one is to serve honorably, they deserve VA burial, but if they do something dishonorable between their discharge or retirement and when they die, that ought to be taken into consideration. Didn’t they pass some law about that shortly after the story of Cambra’s burial in a Veterans’ Cemetery broke? And yes, WE DO need better systems in place for taking care of the deranged, the Aurora theater, VA Tech, and Sandy Hook shootings clearly exhibit that fact!
When our next civil war starts (and, like it or not, it is definitely coming), killing soldiers and police officers will be considered a heroic and honorable act.
It happened in 1775.
It happened again in 1861.
Now, it’s our turn.
Which side will you choose to be on?
What kind of burial did Lee Harvey Oswald get?
What kind of burial did Charles Whitman get?
What kind of burial did Timothy McVeigh get?
Who makes these decisions, and what are the criteria for making them?
The fact that he’s a KILLER isn’t bad enough? Why is a cop’s life worth more than, say, your own? I just don’t get it.
It’s not just “cop killer”, Joe.
http://www.cem.va.gov/burial_benefits/eligible.asp
Persons Not Eligible for Burial in a National Cemetery
(Which in part reads:)
Under 38 U.S.C. § 2411, interment or memorialization in a VA national cemetery or in Arlington National Cemetery is prohibited if a person is convicted of a Federal or State capital crime, for which a sentence of imprisonment for life or the death penalty may be imposed and the conviction is final. Federal officials may not inter in Veterans cemeteries persons who are shown by clear and convincing evidence to have committed a Federal or State capital crime but were unavailable for trial due to death or flight to avoid prosecution. Federally funded State veterans cemeteries must also adhere to this law.
38 USC 2411 can be found here:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/38/2411
And the list of crimes that would fall under this is pretty extensive, not just “cop killers” or the like.
Slow your roll, Joe.
Slow your own roll, Sparky.
I’m simply expressing my opinion. And it’s not based on what the law says; that’s another argument altogether (see below).
My point was that it shouldn’t matter whether the guy next to you in a VA cemetery was a “cop killer” or not (as John said), just that he was a KILLER (i.e., guilty of a capital crime). That’s my opinion. Period.
“Cop killers” aren’t anymore evil than guys who KILL little old ladies, spouses, children, strangers, etc. The life of a cop is not worth more than yours, or mine, etc. Personally, I wouldn’t want to be buried next to any of them. But I’ll let God sort that out. I’m not qualified to do it.
Nota bene: Removing the interred remains from a VA cemetery of anyone who served honorably, is not something I’d generally support. Even if it later became known that he was a “cop killer.” And even if someone lied on his application about it. If he served his country honorably, and then later went nutso, or became evil, etc., he still deserves a spot in a VA cemetery. That’s my opinion, and I’m stickin’ to it.
@6…Joe
Because a Cop (or President, or Governor, or Soldier, etc,etc) represents us all…as a collective society
In the case of a Cop…he represents our societal laws
The person killing a Cop is in essence saying “Fuck this society, all of its laws and everyone in it”
Which is why it is a capital crime
Just because you don’t like Cops don’t let it cloud your judgement…it isn’t about the Cop as an individual..it is about what the Cop represents
Well, Joey, seems reading comprehension isn’t your strong suit, now is it?
ANY state or federal crime which can result in a sentence of life imprisonment OR the death penalty, OR a crime which would be considered a Tier III sexual offense (rape, kiddy diddling, etc.,) is grounds for being barred from ANY veteran’s cemetery, regardless of whether they’re run by the DVA or the individual state in question.
So yeah, slow your roll and know what the fuck you’re talking about before popping off your cockholster.
Fuck you, too, Sparko.
My reading comprehension is just fine. Yours? Not so much.
Again, and for the third time, I was expressing my opinion of John’s comment about not wanting to be buried next to a “cop killer.” Essentially saying that it shouldn’t really matter who Cumbra killed, just that he killed another human being, which is usually a CAPITAL CRIME anyway (first degree murder, etc.), and can be punishable by death or life in prison.
I find nothing special about a cop’s life.
To O-4E: “Just because you don’t like Cops don’t let it cloud your judgement”
I don’t dislike cops at all! I in fact have several of them in my family. But their lives aren’t special, no matter how much you want to make them that way. My life as a former marine wasn’t special either. Taking my life is no more obscene or unconscionable than taking the life of a little old lady, a child, a judge, a guy who works at Domino’s, etc.
On the other hand, the ongoing militarization of our police forces is a very bad thing, with entire SWAT teams now doing what used to be done by a single Texas Ranger (“One riot, one Ranger”), for example. Shooting dogs, tasering anything that moves, shooting at cars with children inside, etc. Now they’re even riding around in MRAPs, for crissakes, to serve eviction warrants(!), etc. If this trend continues, they will eventually lose the respect of the people they SERVE, and then it will get very very nasty.
I also don’t think cops represent anything more than being a cop. Period. And an awful lot of them have ZERO respect for the law, as you can see for yourself by watching the news each night. Sure, most cops are great guys and really do care about SERVING the people. And they respect the law. The rest? Not so much. So I’m going to judge them individually, just like I do everyone else.
And if no one here likes it, tough shit.
And once again, your OPINION is based on biased “feelings” rather than FACT. Had he killed a little old granny, if, under the state laws of Oregon, that crime would have carried a life sentence (a pretty good chance of it) he’d be under the same situation. The FACT it just so happened to be a police officer is, quite frankly, immaterial.
So the FACT that you get all butthurt over a veteran having his remains removed because he never should have been interred there in the first place means your OPINION of the situation, is, in FACT, bullshit.
And if you don’t like it, it’s a great big Internet out there, scooter. Have a blast.
“My life as a former marine…” (in post #11)
Wait…what?!
That’s not Joey the Rockclimber! We have too many “Joe”s in the house to keep them straight anymore.
Sparky. Here’s what happened. Joe made his first point and was unclear. I, too, thought he was speaking to the law regarding capital crimes. He wasn’t. He’s not alone in his view. It’s his and he’s entitled to it. So, let’s change up the facts. A person he loves is raped and butchered by a Veteran who was shot and killed by police while escaping the crime scene. As chance would have it, his loved one is a Veteran and both the victim and the murderer are to be buried one beside the other. If Joe thinks that would be okay, then I’d say he’s pretty damn firm in his opinion.
@11
Society disagrees with you through our laws…but you are correct..you are welcome to your opinion…just like anyone else
Whelp, if he thinks a veteran who got an honorable discharge who then commits those crimes is entitled to a spot in a VA cemetery, he thinks wrong.
Opinion be damned. He doesn’t like the law, I’m sure he can work to change it. But as it is now, Mister Cambra was not entitled to burial in a VA cemetery under current federal law, and it sure sounds like the funeral home folks lied their asses off (if not actually forged paperwork–aka committed a federal crime) to get him buried in one.
And in the scenario you provided, one would in fact be entitled to VA burial. One would not. Period. And think of the person buried on the OTHER side of that murder/rapist, too.
Veterans are human, but it is a place of honor, and a place where standards are set and maintained for a reason.
Well, Sparko, I’m not sure you’d recognize a fact if one hit you over the head. “The FACT it just so happened to be a police officer is, quite frankly, immaterial.” That’s exactly the point I’ve been trying to make from the get-go, but it keeps going right over your pointy little head. ‘So the FACT that you get all butthurt over a veteran having his remains removed because he never should have been interred there in the first place means your OPINION of the situation, is, in FACT, bullshit.” I don’t get “butthurt” over anything, but I do not take kindly to a veteran (who served his country honorably) having his remains removed from a VA cemetery. He rightfully earned his place there, in my opinion, for serving his country honorably. Period. No, I don’t give a crap about the law. If he went nutso later on, that doesn’t change the fact they he served his country honorably. Should we also dig up the remains of veterans who may have done not-so-honorable things (in-country) while they served our country? If so, there would be a lot fewer veterans in our VA cemeteries. “And if you don’t like it, it’s a great big Internet out there, scooter” I like it right here, maggot. To 2/17 Air Cav: “So, let’s change up the facts. A person he loves is raped and butchered by a Veteran who was shot and killed by police while escaping the crime scene. As chance would have it, his loved one is a Veteran and both the victim and the murderer are to be buried one beside the other. If Joe thinks that would be okay, then I’d say he’s pretty damn firm in his opinion.” Here’s where you’re not giving me a fair shake: Sure, I would care. And I’d thank the cop who shot him. And I wouldn’t want my loved one (or myself) buried next to any such murderer, veteran or otherwise. Which is why I’d exercise my option to have my loved one (or myself) buried in another cemetery, in another plot, etc.… Read more »
Even this turd has earned the right to be buried in a VA cemetery
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=38639
To OE-4:
“Society disagrees with you through our laws”
With all due respect, I couldn’t care less what society thinks.
Society has agreed with some pretty despicable things over the years, e.g., slavery, abortion, voting rights, etc.
But thanks for respecting my opinion!
PS: I also think that Pete Rose should be in the Hall of fame. 🙂
Of course you couldn’t care less, twinkles–as you’ve shown on this little one-trick pony since you showed up, it’s all about how YOU feel.
Fuck the law, fuck the standards. It’s about how you FEEL.
He rightfully earned his place there, in my opinion, for serving his country honorably. Period. No, I don’t give a crap about the law.
He did, right up to the point he committed murder. Again, don’t like the law? Call your Congresscritter.
Is this the guy?
https://teddeutch.house.gov/forms/writeyourrep/default.aspx
And BTW–I’m not disrespecting your opinion, just the fact you can’t back it up with facts and are coming across as a pompous prick. YMMV.
@18–yeah, it doesn’t thrill me either.
http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-city/index.ssf/2013/11/oregon_city_shooting_lawrence_1.html
A little more background on the gent in question. Maybe dementia was kicking in, who knows.
“Of course you couldn’t care less, twinkles–as you’ve shown on this little one-trick pony since you showed up, it’s all about how YOU feel.”
It’s not about how I feel, scumbag, it’s about WHAT I THINK. My right to THINK what I want to think is guaranteed to me in the 1st Amendment. Take it up with the Framers.
“Fuck the law, fuck the standards. It’s about how you FEEL.”
Again, douchenozzle, it’s about what I THINK about the law. Yes, any law. I happen to think a lot of laws are unconstitutional, for example, Roe vs Wade. One day it will be repealed, just like so many laws have already been repealed over the years. Until it is, I intend to express my opinion about it, whether you like it or not.
“And BTW–I’m not disrespecting your opinion, just the fact you can’t back it up with facts and are coming across as a pompous prick. YMMV.”
That’s precisely what you’re doing, though you’re too freakin’ stupid to see that. And there’s no reason for me to back up what I THINK, idiot. Jeez, but you are one dumb sumbitch.
PS: You should look up the word “facts”, too, because you obviously lack even a clue as to what that word means.
Seems to me if anyone is factually deficient, it’d be you. You show up here, go off half-cocked about how you FEEL versus reality, go crying about how cops are all a bunch of SWAT freaks (BTW–the victim in this case was a RESERVE officer, not SWAT.)
You then prattle on about how should this guy be denied burial for COP-killing. When I point out that ANY capital (and a number of non-capital) crime at the state or federal level would create the same bar to internment, you conveniently ignore it and accuse me of being the dense one?
Stop. Hurt. Sides. Laughing.
Oh, and Roe V. Wade isn’t a law. -10 for GCE (Gross Conceptual Error.)
You may go now.
“Seems to me if anyone is factually deficient, it’d be you. You show up here, go off half-cocked about how you FEEL versus reality, go crying about how cops are all a bunch of SWAT freaks (BTW–the victim in this case was a RESERVE officer, not SWAT.)”
Now look up the terms “straw man argument” and “lying.”
You appear to be an expert at both.
“You then prattle on about how should this guy be denied burial for COP-killing. When I point out that ANY capital (and a number of non-capital) crime at the state or federal level would create the same bar to internment, you conveniently ignore it and accuse me of being the dense one?”
Also look up the term “reading comprehension.” You appear to lack any.
“Oh, and Roe V. Wade isn’t a law”
Semantics. It’s a Supreme Court decision that made moot certain state laws outlawing certain kinds of abortions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade
“You may go now.”
Make me.
Asshole.
PS:
“About Us
Before you read the rest about the authors here, understand that this blog is what it is because of the folks who contribute here. Before you judge us by our blog posts, read the comments. Folks agree with us and disagree with us, and we welcome it all.”
Gee, I wonder if that’s all a lie, too?
Seems to me you’ve got a real knot in your ass over this little subject, considering this is your first time here. Are you this big of a dick everywhere you post? Or is this case somehow hitting a bit close to home for you? Frankly, having a battle of wits with a guy who relies on Wiki is about as much of a mental challenge as kicking a puppy. Sure, the noises they both make are kinda funny, but it gets old after a while. Again, you expressed an opinion. You were called on it. You got butthurt over it. Sucks for you. Life’s rough, wear a helmet. Frankly, I agree with the law. Show me anything in your contract that says if you fulfill your enlistment and obtain a satisfactory (in this case, anything but a Dishonorable) discharge, you are guaranteed a burial plot in a VA cemetery. What? Doesn’t exist? Aw, shit. One of the shitty little things that happens that I don’t always like or agree with is the FACT that those “bennies” we’re promised come with conditions. And depending on the administration and bureaucracy in power at any given time, those conditions can change–sometimes to a veteran’s benefit, more often to their detriment. And burial in a VA cemetery is NOT, repeat NOT, a guarantee. I served honorably. I haven’t gotten more than a speeding ticket in my half century on this planet. Unlike Mr. Cambra, I have never had a restraining order taken out on me, I’ve never threatened anyone with a gun, nor have I burned my house/trailer down, nor do I have serious anger issues, as it seems our gent here did. But I can’t be buried at Arlington. Why not? Because unless I serve in high elected office (i.e., the House or Senate, etc.,) I never will because I don’t meet the current REQUIREMENTS for internment at Arlington. Here at home? Good to go, PROVIDED I still meet the requirements under DVA rules at the time of my passing. And it doesn’t bother me one bit that I won’t be, as… Read more »
“Seems to me you’ve got a real knot in your ass over this little subject, considering this is your first time here.” You’re the one who got his panties in a bunch, simply because you didn’t like hearing MY OPINION. Plus, you still don’t have a clue as to what I actually said, because you’re just a dumb sumbitch. Period. You are to stupid what Obama is to lying piece of shit. “Are you this big of a dick everywhere you post?” No, just when someone tries to deny me my right to express my opinion. I would have thought that this was the last place that would happen. “Frankly, having a battle of wits with a guy who relies on Wiki” Yet another straw man. Wow. Can you even open your mouth without straw men gushing forth? “Again, you expressed an opinion. You were called on it.” What the fuck does that mean? That I can’t express my opinion here without having some gasbag crawl up my ass? And that’s okay, mind you, but I will respond in kind. It’s who I am. In fact, it’s virtually my motto. “Do unto others as they do unto you.” “Frankly, I agree with the law.” Frankly, I don’t give a shit what you think, but I’d fight to the death to protect your right to express your opinion. “And burial in a VA cemetery is NOT, repeat NOT, a guarantee.” I’ve already told you my opinion of that. Four times, now, so I won’t repeat it again. “So for you to claim that there’s some kind of conspiracy that his ashes were removed is false.” You’ve had time to look up “straw man argument,” and yet you keep using them, like the dumbest schmuck on the block. Are you? “The fact he IS/WAS a murderer is what kept him from being buried in a VA cemetery. The fact it was a police officer he murdered is just icing on the cake.” He served his country honorably. I think he should be allowed to rest in peace. To me, the fact that… Read more »
Scooter, I have no problem with your opinion, as long as you are clear on the point that your opinion has no basis in fact or reality. Yeah, I know I could agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong.
And nobody has yet to deny you shit. You’re still here, making an ass of yourself, but please, do go on!
Ya know, I’ve been called lots of things, but stupid isn’t one that has ever stuck, certainly not for long. But again, please go on with that tack. It amuses me.
And you won’t repeat it again? I’ll believe that when I see it. But it’s been my experience that asshole have this obsessive need to get in the last word.
All yours, scooter. Cause I’m pretty sure once you make your next post, you’ll have shot your wad, both figuratively and literally.
It’s all you have.
“Scooter, I have no problem with your opinion, as long as you are clear on the point that your opinion has no basis in fact or reality. Yeah, I know I could agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong.”
My opinion requires no basis in fact. It’s my opinion. Period. One day, if you live long enough, that may eventually sink in.
“And nobody has yet to deny you shit. You’re still here, making an ass of yourself, but please, do go on!”
I think I’m doing pretty good, actually. You? Not so much.
“Ya know, I’ve been called lots of things, but stupid isn’t one that has ever stuck, certainly not for long. But again, please go on with that tack. It amuses me.”
Q.E.D.
“And you won’t repeat it again? I’ll believe that when I see it. But it’s been my experience that asshole have this obsessive need to get in the last word.”
I intend to respond to everything you say about me. Ad infinitum.
“It’s all you have.”
All I have is obviously more than enough, eh?
Do you two need to get a room??
The only place that would have us at this point is the Bates Motel. 🙂