Phony ceremonies on phony planes
Several of you have been sending us links to the story about the phony ceremonies for phony dead on board phony planes at Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam in Hawaii. This story is reported in Military.com;
The Department of Defense unit charged with recovering servicemembers’ remains abroad has been holding phony “arrival ceremonies” for seven years, with an honor guard carrying flag-draped coffins off of a cargo plane as though they held the remains returning that day from old battlefields.
The Pentagon acknowledged Wednesday that no honored dead were in fact arriving, and that the planes used in the ceremonies often couldn’t even fly, and were towed into position. The story was first reported on nbcnews.com.
The ceremonies at Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam in Hawaii are held up as a sign of the nation’s commitment to its fallen warriors. They have been attended by veterans and families of MIAs, led to believe that they were witnessing the return of Americans killed in World War II, Vietnam and Korea.
I guess they don’t even need troops to use for props, just an airplane hull, a casket and a flag.
Category: Military issues
Heads should roll on this waste of time, effort and manpower. Fraud and abuse charges should be levied. I fear that heads won’t roll…just eyes.
Have to disagree, Beretverde.
Yes, they f-ed up. But IMO they f-ed up by doing the right thing the wrong way.
These particular ceremonies were mishandled. IMO they should have had a different ceremony involving the actual remains instead of this. Personally, I think a sendoff ceremony when the remains were sent from HI to be returned to the families and/or interred should have been held instead.
But I won’t fault the folks at JPAC for having some kind of ceremony to honor returned US war dead that have been identified decades after their loss. Some ceremonies are simply important enough to hold.
WTF?
@2…Honoring the dead with a ceremony…by all means. Pretending and pulling as “fast one” on the public? No way.
I had hoped that this was some sort of drilling that was merely misunderstood to be an actual ceremony. I’m sad to say that my hopes were dashed. This is/was a sham, replete with clergy, patriotic song and tearful, sincere–but duped–attendees. The ongoing exercise was locally known as THE LIE, according to the report, and was staged, in part, to give the impression that the congressionally mandated charge to recover of our Fallen was being met. I think of the well meaning people, Veterans, families of other Fallen, and grateful others whose time and emotions were stolen from them by this game. This is sick.
I’m with BeretVerde on this.
There is NO excuse for having MAKE BELIEVE ceremonies that serve only to falsely portray the return of remains to the public, incl. families of MIA’s and Veterans.
I was fully expecting that at the end of the article, the ceremonies were being held for practice of the crews and not held in public. I am shocked that they were being conducted to fool the families.
Heads should roll, but I have little faith that the right ones will. The investigation should identify the decision makers, not just the participants. And in the current state of the union, I have little faith it will.
One other thing. Slice it and dice it all you want BUT if the article is correct, there should be asskickings galore. What hurts is to think of all those folks who prepared themselves to honor our war dead. They planned, dressed accordingly, traveled, participated, sang, prayed, and spent emotions and tears for–a sham perpetrated by petty bureaucrats, uniformed and non-uniformed.
It’s another style over substance event from our “government.”
Half-assedness taken to a whole new level…UFB
just more BS
The containers are not actually caskets. They are just wooden boxes draped with flags.
I’m torn between sputtering with annoyance over this, because it is, after all, just an exercise, and thinking that they at least tried to do the right thing.
Have you all forgotten those plastic body bags from the Vietnam era?
OK, it’s a sham, but in view of the time when remains were transferred like trash to dump, it has a semblance of decency that died in the 1960s and 1970s.
There are multiple aspects of this which are more than just disturbing. Kept hoping that these were some sort of exercise or drill which was misinterpreted by somebody. (It’s not like civilian media understands the military!)
Utterly disgusting.
Beretverde: agree with your comment 4. I think it’s essentially what I said in comment 2, actually.
The guys/gals at Hickam appear to have been trying to do the right thing here. They f-ed up the execution royally.
IMO, they should have held a ceremony when the remains began their final journey from Hickam to their final resting place instead. My guess – and this is only a guess, I don’t work for JPAC or DPMO so I don’t really know – is that they were trying to maximize public honors for the returned who’d been identified and ended up going with a bad idea to do so. I could be wrong.
Oh, then it was a propaganda operation? Bust them all.
Hondo- sometimes it’s hard trying to communicate on a keyboard. I will use this as an example-
If I go to an NFL preseason game (like an idiot, I do sometimes), I know the game itself doesn’t count. The rules, players, positions and refs are all there, but it doesn’t count, AND I KNOW IT BEFOREHAND! It says so on my ticket-PRESEASON.
The public was duped into thinking these ceremonies were like a regular season game, when in fact it wasn’t!
You are right, they effed up the execution royally. I can’t even fathom doing this even once… how many times did they?
The error started 7 years ago and in proud military fashion it stuck.
Yes ceremony yes … mode no!
Let’s get it fixed.
The place, ceremony and containers should be commensurate with the return.
This unit does fine work.
Hondo:
I think what you’re missing here is that there were no remains. The ceremonies were full on sham. The ceremonies were being held ONLY to give the impression that remains were being recovered.
The most important two blurbs of the entire piece, IMHO, are these,
“Part of the ceremony involves symbolically transferring the recovered remains from an aircraft to a vehicle for follow-on transportation to the lab. Many times, static aircraft are used for the ceremonies, as operational requirements dictate flight schedules and aircraft availability. This transfer symbolizes the arrival of our fallen servicemembers.
“It is important to note that recovered remains ceremoniously transferred from the aircraft to the [bus] have been in the lab undergoing forensic analysis to determine identity. When remains first arrive in Hawaii, JPAC cannot confirm if the remains are those of an American servicemember.”
The remains are there and are treated with the honor they deserve as identified fallen heroes. I agree with what Hondo said about maybe switching the ceremony to a time when the remains are ready to be sent home after they have been identified and are ready for burial. I guess what JPAC is doing with these ceremonies is making the attempt to welcome home our country’s heroes and that, to me, is what matters.
They could do what they are setting out to do with just a simple ceremony that doesn’t include a phony plane, casket or remains.
Assholes who dream this shit up need to be keel-hauled.
Okay, I tend to follow PFDRbrendan’s viewpoint here….the ceremony is held without the remains because the operational schedule of the airfield (Hickam is wicked busy) won’t allow them to do it on the spot. Also, for OPSEC reasons, the impending arrival of the aircraft is never announced and wouldn’t give anyone time to be in place to render proper honors. So they stage the ceremony, without remains, so that proper honors can be rendered and maximum participation can be achieved. They are fully adhering to the spirit of the ceremony, which is all we want from them. It would have been better to have announced that the ceremony was symbolic and there were no actual remains present, but would they draw the same crowd if people knew there were no remains present ? I doubt it. So they put on a show and everyone comes and pays their respects, as it should be. We do the same thing at every dining in/Navy Ball/etc for the POW/MIA table.
I have no issue with what they’re doing.
Been trying to get my head around this all day. May finally have it:
A “ceremony” is conducted for remains which are not there to symbolize their arrival on a date much later than they actually arrived showing the transfer of the remains to a laboratory where they already are, or at least have already been, in front of an audience for whom the transfer of actual remains may be highly significant. Note should be made that some members of the assembled may well be present at great hardship to themselves either emotionally, physically, or financially. They are there to receive the remains of family, except that the remains are not there, and the remains arrived much earlier and might have been on the island for decades. And they don’t receive them.
In conclusion: It’s all theater. Why do we need military issued theater?
I don’t believe any of the party in attendance are actual family members of the deceased because they have not actually been identified yet forensically. The attending personnel are base personnel and those military affiliated (retirees/AD/reserve) who can be present. Remember, the remains cannot be positively identified until they have been through JPAC.
However, I do believe that Hondo has a solution to the issue of paying proper respects at the appropriate time…wait until the identity has been positively made, and as they are departing the island, provide the ceremony then. I mean, what if they brought home three SVN troops instead of U.S. ?
Beretverde: yeah, comms is hard sometimes. And I wasn’t clear enough above.
When I say they’re “trying to do the right thing”, I’m referring to the attempt to publicly honor the returned fallen. That IMO is absolutely a “must do”.
I fully agree with you that doing this symbolically (e.g., empty casket) vice in reality, but failing to identify that fact, was where they screwed the pooch. That never should have happened.
— break —
Grimmy: I didn’t miss that part; I thought my comments above made that clear. That’s what I was referring to when I said they’d screwed up the execution. In retrospect, I didn’t make myself clear enough. My apologies.
— break —
OWB: we “need” such theater for the same reason we “need” to fire a cannon and play “To the Colors” (or play the National Anthem, if on a Naval installation) when the flag is lowered at the end of the day. Some things are simply worth taking the necessary time and effort to show respect.
Bottom line: in my book, the intent was correct. The execution was abysmal and needs fixing. And the need remains valid, regardless of execution.
Yeah, well, THAT is the problem with this sham! The remains are not there at all. They have already been processed, and even the quotation in Jonn’s post says that some of the ceremonies have families in attendance. (It’s not clear in the abov quote whether they are merely unrelated MIA families, or families of the actual already ID’d remains about to be released to a specific family.)
There is absolutely nothing wrong with having perhaps an annual ceremony to symbolize the receiving of remains since the last ceremony. But pretending that remains which are not there ARE there, deceiving anyone in attendance? Ridiculous.
To clarify, my #24 comment was directed @ #22.
And, Hondo, I agree that we do need some theater. Limited quantities, of course, and honestly presented. When we actually go to a theater, we know that it is all make-believe. This is apparently not being presented that way at all.
The Military has ceremonies, which are built on tradition. It does not need theater, which is built on lies.
I will NOT in anyway condone or excuse this theater, while I will, in every way, argue that the ceremony is proper and that it be upheld.
When the remains of my fallen brothers come home, even if they are unknown persons, even if there exists doubt that any American remains are on board, they have earned the ceremony.
At NO time is it honorable for JPAC, or ANY bureaucrat to practice theater, to fool the likes of 81 yo Veteran, Jesse Baker. Mr. Baker (quoted in the link) has attended well over 50 repatriation ceremonies, of apparently empty containers, for JPAC’s theatrical performance. NO, their heart was not in the right place.
And having been involved in the transfer of remains home, I don’t care if there’s a single spectator, Those Troops EARNED the Right to be treated with dignity, according to Regulation, and with Ceremony, even if JPAC wasn’t sure who it was. The Ceremony is NOT for the spectator, but instead for the Troop, who gave his life in service to the Constitution. Those that would fail to provide that honor given no spectators, or provide theater when no remains are there (short of ceremonies where it is stated as such), are despicable creatures, which do not understand the true sacrifices of service, or the Honors due those that Gave All.
There is simply NO excuse. And that is true, regardless of who was CinC or who decided to perform the play on the public.
Last I checked, military values on OER’s and NCOER’s include Honor, Honesty, and Integrity. None of those were present in presenting a falsehood to the public, and wasting the time of Mr. Baker more than 50 times.
It implies the honors were not presented when no one was watching.
This is fraud perpetrated on the public. There is no valid reason for it. And I for one am heartily sick of all the lies and misrepresentation in our nation today.
A friend of mine that worked for JPAC for 9 years had this to say when I asked about this article: “I strongly object to the word “phony.” The reality is MIA remains come in to Hawaii dozens of times a year at all hours of day and night, frequently one or two or 15 hours past scheduled arrival times; the remains are immediately transported to the lab, where they can be secured and carefully tracked through accessioning. Preliminary analysis starts within one or two (usually one) business days of their arrival. JPAC chose to celebrate recently returned heroes approximately 4 times per year in a solemn ceremony held at a time and place convenient to the community, so they could join in honoring these heroes. The alternative would be hoping that some 30 or 40 times a year, the public would show up for what would not uncommonly be bad weather with a scheduled arrival at 2 AM (so pitch black on an empty tarmac) and then wait through a delay of four hours for the plane to arrive. And then there are the safety, security, and liability issues involved with having the public attend this kind of a ceremony on an active flight line. The transfer cases always have remains of recently returned, unidentified servicemembers in them, from the country or conflict (war) stated during the ceremony. The transfer cases were never, as some would tell you, empty. I will stake my personal and professional reputation on that; I witnessed the remains leaving and returning to the lab in those transfer cases time after time. The remains were always carefully handled, safely packaged, and tracked with a strict chain of custody. The fact that JPAC changed the name of these ceremonies to “arrival” ceremonies in 2006 (they previously called them “repats” or repatriation ceremonies) is unfortunate, and the fact that the scripts apparently were incorrect in describing the facts behind the ceremony is truly tragic. It is clear to me from the reaction to this article that the public feels they were mislead, which is sad, but (1)… Read more »