Kurt Myers dead in Herkimer
So, Myers is dead finally, but he took out a dog in the process. My question is how Multicam was at all appropriate for police in this situation;
To me, the only reason police would wear multicam military uniforms (by the way, Multicam camouflage patterned uniform is only used by US troops while they’re in Afghanistan – they are generally not authorized to wear it except immediately before or after the deployment) is for intimidation – those two snipers in the video are no more concealed as a result of their uniform than the officers standing in the street in their blue uniforms.
I’ve been sensitive about this since I first moved to DC and saw Metro cops on patrol in OD or black jungle fatigues and it just seems out of place in this country – more appropriate in third world countries where law enforcement and military lines blur.
Category: Crime
By the way, everyone should visit Herkimer. My dad used to take us there as kids – they have diamond mines that you can have your youngsters toil in and harvest their own diamonds. That’ll knock them out for one night anyway.
Nice write up on the uniforms, maybe they should learn how to assemble the components on their weapons before worrying about uniforms ..
My late father, who was by my measure pretty conservative, justified the arming/militarization of the police by saying pointing out the kind of people they go up against (drug dealers, etc.,) but more and more, we’re seeing our LEO’s going up against not well-armed and trained criminals, but ordinary law-abiding civilians.
And when force it used, often it’s in far greater proportion than the threat presented. JMO.
Again, not to paint with a broad brush, but it’s happening far too often in far too many places for it to be mere coincidence.
They should have gone with the standard Army multicam, because, you know, it is designed to blend into anything…
Or you can go to the Arkansas Diamond Mines. My parents used to take me their as a child and you get to stay out of NYS.
So what should they wear? Those working in such a capacity have to do things like crawl on roofs like shown. The regular shitty police polyester uniform would be shredded. And if those were trained snipers they would need to be camoflaged at times. Do you think they should have roof camo, street camo, woodland camo….? Soldiers don’t change into office camo when they are inside. Those in a SWAT or ESU role need a durable utility uniform. Snipers need camoflage. They don’t need to be wearing polyester and a tie. You don’t even give them a pass when they aren’t wearing camo but black utility uniforms. Sometimes its the proper uniform for their role.
P.S. on many smaller departments they have to buy their equipment out of their own pocket so they get whatever they can from Galls.
loach, the point is (and rightfully so) that the line between our police and military is getting mighty blurry of late.
I worked as a deputy sheriff briefly after leaving the Army and thought the same thing about our Tactical Unit’s uniforms. Back then ACUs had just come out and the Tac guys all got them to wear with their black body armor and black kevlars. The reason seemed to be: looks cool. Nevermind that this was in Colorado and the getup stuck out rather badly. They also drove a huge black SWAT truck with lights, etc that was pretty Hollywood. That was the SWAT guys only, most of everyone else except detectives and commanders wore the regular police blues and smokey bear hats for duty and drove marked patrol cars.
I think you’re being a little uncharitable with their weapons handling from before. I did six years in the Army infantry including an OIF deployment and by far the most thorough firearms training I got was with the police. And that was just the basic police academy without any specialized training. Granted, it was all with pistol and shotgun rather than the carbine, but I think it’s fair to say that the NYSP tactical unit probably has got their act together with their firearms training.
SWAT gets a pass as far as uniforms go from me. An Urban Camo would be their best bet. Blurring the line between military and Police is a dangerous step, and usually an indicator that you are in a third world country.
My perspective comes from my time in the 82d when we were issued camouflaged jungle fatigues but we were only authorized to wear them in the field. When the BDUs came out, it seemed ridiculous that the typewriter jockeys were wearing a woodland pattern uniform – and then they came out with maternity BDUs for people who never cross the cattle guards while they were wearing the uniform. I like my police in nicely pressed blue uniforms with brass buttons and a shiny braid on their hats and my military folks in a pattern that lowers their profile in the woods.
Many folks receive excellent training and then forget it 24-48 hours later. As for NY State police, I doubt that there is a trooper in any other State police unit that would agree. All state troopers think their stuff doesn’t stink. And that’s okay with me. It’s good for espirit de corps.
Wouldn’t the blue uniforms clash with the urban cammo’d MRAPs they have on back order? Also who wants to be wearing a pukey blue uniform when you’re a cool operator po-po door gunner in your metro-PD’s Little Bird?
Because wearing multicam makes them feel more like real heroes?
Just an Old Dog, I agree completely. The militarization of our police forces is incredibly frightening for the future of not only our country, but the world. Police officers are supposed to respond to violence and protect the public, but more and more often our police feel more like the aggressors.
Agree completely. They should’nt be wearing them at all, they are not the Army , they are the Police for shit sakes.
Have you seen the uniforms those DHS weenies are wearing?
I’m beginning to have a real problem with those DHS turds and just what is their purpose , other than being Big Ruglicking Sis’s Storm Troopers ?
I sure hope it does’nt come down to where they use those turds as an instrument to try and take away our rights.
I pity those weenies if they do.
I think if they are going to be armed with the latest and sexiest weapons and optics, they should at least be trained on how to use them and mount them. As far as uniforms, don’t really care if they wear tutu’s as long as they are competent. But from what we are hearing and seeing on the news lately, that aint always the case. I guess looking cool takes a back seat to tactics, techniques and procedures.
I don’t know. Part of the schtick is to look the part. Are the NY State Police (in my book, the meanest LEOs this side of a rookie State Police graduate) more likely to be obeyed the first time a verbal command is issued than the gay LEO riding the bicycle in Golden State Park? Probably.
Jonn, I have to agree with you. When I was sheriff, we formed a tactical team. Now our tradition sheriff’s uniform was campaign hat, dark green with dark green shirts with epaulets that matched the trouser which were what they call officer pink. Stripes on the trousers. The trousers were wool blend, pretty sturdy but not made for creepy crawling. The tactical team started off with a dark grey unform that was a BDU. Since I have retired they started wearing the desert camos, which in this semi arid country is OK. My problem is the deputies all seem to be wearing black coveralls now. I like the traditional old school too. Our Washington State Patrol keeps on with the traditional blue uniforms with the bow ties and campaign hat. I told my deputies when they were pissing and moaning about the traditional uniforms that the public judges the agency by the way they look first. It is probably no surprise that the non-veterans are the ones that don’t like the traditional uniforms.
New sheriff across the river has gone to black vehicles, he told the media that the black commanded respect! WTF? I guess he thinks they look scary. They painted their jet ranger black too.
@17. I made a mistake. In cmt 17, I meant to say the NEW JERSEY State Police, not New York.
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and Law Enforcement has long imitated the military. They call each other “Sergeant, Lieutenant, Corporal”, etc. and are now adopting the armament, gear and uniforms of the military. Every little burg now has a SWAT Team that is too often used for minor matters as a means to justify its existence and expansion. DHS is handing out cash and armored vehicles like candy and everyone is in line to get their drone aircraft. Along with the erosion of our Constitutional Rights, all of this is making be a bit uneasy.
Hah, Jon, my mom and dad took me up to Herkimer when I was little. Went looking for cool looking Herkimer Diamonds (I think we went to a Garnet mine at one point too). Somewhere I still have all those rocks.
I’m a pup compared to some of you here, but here are some of the subtle things I have seen. When I was a kid (early 80’s) it was still common to hear the term peace officer, now it’s Law Enforcement. To serve and protect was also emblazoned on most of the cruisers I saw, it’s been years since I’ve seen that. I don’t know if it’s conditioning, but how many excessive force cases have there been since peace officer went out of fashion and law enforcement came in?
I’m glad that I am not the only one who had an issue with it. I saw a picture online with LEO in Multicam and then posted a link to the pic, asking if anyone else was concerned.
It’s more than just military gear. Back in 2004 the San Bernardino police department actually was receiving military training on military property by Marines in CQB. We used sim paint rounds on modified m16’s to shoot the piss out of the officers doing raids on buildings.
JL: “To me, the only reason police would wear multicam military uniforms … is for intimidation …”
Agreed, but intimidation of whom?
The perp, or the citizenry?
Jumpmaster: “Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery and Law Enforcement has long imitated the military. They call each other ‘Sergeant, Lieutenant, Corporal’, etc.”
Meet General Joe Arpaio.
Guess I am getting old…. the cops I really respected were of the old Ranger “one riot, one cop” variety. They earned their respect, were typically polite to a fault… and you did NOT mess with them. I miss that kind of cop.
I always have a laugh when I see those tacticool vests and weapons deployed on your average run-of-the-mill cop who can’t seem to move beyond the safety of his own squad car. What’s the point of all that gear if all you’re going to do is spray and pray? It wasn’t that long ago when a .38 revolver was considered all that was needed for your day-to-day policing job.
Yes, we are definitely losing the “Andy Griffith” view of how Law Enforcement should act and dress. The camo issue reminds me of a video clip or ad of a boat similar to a swift boat blowing up a river chock full of Seals(?) in full battle rattle and war paint. On the side of the boat (also in full camo) was strapped a BIG red fire extinguisher.
Betcha if these guys showed up at your house to bust you, a lot of you would be crapping in your bdu’s. What difference does it make what they wear.
@30: What do you want to bet? Also; what would they be showing up at my house to bust me for?
Just because you would poop your diaper doesn’t mean everyone is as incontinent as you.
earl–not fuckin likely. And I never wore BDU’s, thanks for asking.
I’ll drop you a little clue–they got families and loved ones they want to go home to just as bad as anyone here. Someone in DC sending out an edict to confiscate them all so they can feel like they accomplished something isn’t going to give da po-po all warm and fuzzies.
It really is a shame that police agencies now must arm and dress themselves as if they are military instead of paramilitary. Doesn’t really come as much of a surprise given that they are so often met with considerable force in what should be simple situations.
Now, before anyone misunderstands – I am not slipping into support for the gungrabbing idiots who helped get us into this mess. The largest single contributing factor in driving the police to this fairly reasonable response is drug traffic. It’s a mega billion dollar business, one which the dealers et al are willing to use the latest and greatest weaponry to protect.
All to say that the bad guys are more heavily armed these days and so is anyone intent upon defending themselves to include our representatives in police agencies around the country. Throw in the big bucks the feds threw at the locals to spend, and many got a tad carried away with “improvements.”
OWB, that’s the exact mindset that has taken over many departments across the country. Ask for every grant that DHS and DoJ puts out there, then spend it if you get it. If you don’t, the government might not give out any grants.
The idea being, every fed/state dollar is one dollar that they don’t have to justify in their budget to the city, state or county that writes the checks for their budget.
Hey, what’s wrong with Sheriff Joe having an APC and a Browning .50 cal machine gun?!
Most coops’ daily mission doesn’t require much more than the traditional police uniform. Pants, tucked-in shirt, etc; or even the fairly common slacks and polo shirt with embroidered badge. BDUs and their like should not be worn on a daily basis by most police officers. The funny thing is that I’ve yet to see a state Wildlife Agent (in Louisiana or elsewhere) wearing all the latest and greatest military clothing and gear–despite normally operating alone and in areas where a military-style uniform would excel. Instead, they seem to prepare themselves more practically.
Note the tacticool deputy assisting the well-prepared Wildlife Agent: http://theadvocate.com/csp/mediapool/sites/dt.common.streams.StreamServer.cls?STREAMOID=XyknPRynfdh2J3kvI7JKCs$daE2N3K4ZzOUsqbU5sYtdEJ7ws2g2ZgPmim9ImOAOWCsjLu883Ygn4B49Lvm9bPe2QeMKQdVeZmXF$9l$4uCZ8QDXhaHEp3rvzXRJFdy0KqPHLoMevcTLo3h8xh70Y6N_U_CryOsw6FTOdKL_jpQ-&CONTENTTYPE=image/jpeg
One seems overdressed for the occasion (is that AR-15 to keep the alligators at bay?) and ready to kick in some doors (though his rifle is at the reverse low-ready), while the other seems well-prepared to assist the public in a time of need.
“I’m a pup compared to some of you here, but here are some of the subtle things I have seen. When I was a kid (early 80?s) it was still common to hear the term peace officer, now it’s Law Enforcement. To serve and protect was also emblazoned on most of the cruisers I saw, it’s been years since I’ve seen that. I don’t know if it’s conditioning, but how many excessive force cases have there been since peace officer went out of fashion and law enforcement came in?”
My father became a police officer in Philadelphia in 1971. His mentors were mostly WWII and Korean war combat vets. If you want to talk about excessive force, you need to look at the “good old days” of the peace officer. The stories my dad tells about those guys would make your hair stand up.
I would venture that the “militarization” of the police back then was much worse, and a direct result of the majority being combat vets.