Marines end tuition assistance, other services may follow
A couple of you folks sent me the message from the Department of the Navy on how they planned to make through the sequester. Buried way down near the bottom of the message was the cessation of the Marine Corps’ tuition assistance program. The tuition assistance program is how most folks on active duty get to work on their education. Between tuition assistance and teaching ROTC, that’s how I saved the VA some money by only using three semesters of my education benefits. From Stars & Stripes;
An administrative message published Saturday for all Navy and Marine Corps personnel from Navy Secretary Ray Mabus noted that one of the impacts of the across-the-board budget cuts known as sequestration would be to “cease new USMC enrollments in voluntary education tuition assistance.”
But Marines already using the program said they were informed that their assistance also would be cut off after the current semester and that they should meet with guidance counselors for information about scholarships and grants.
Good move, Navy. Tuition assistance also benefits the services because folks get educated. I guess this is the way they intend to make sequestration especially painful. I guess while they were raiding our $770 million Tricare surplus, they didn’t think that they could use it to help out the youngsters instead of getting some general new carpeting in his office or something, which probably would have made me less critical of the DoD. But, it looks like the Marines aren’t the only ones considering the cut;
On Tuesday, the Defense Department comptroller released guidance that suggested all services consider “significant reductions in funding new tuition assistance applicants … for the duration of the current fiscal situation.”
Probably because the folks looking for places to cut at DoD have never worn a uniform.
Category: Big Army, Military issues
There is an annual catalog published every year that provides information about grants and scholarships.
http://www.2012scholarships.com/index.htm
I don’t know if this is the right one, but I do know that there are literally thousands of sources of tuition funding available.
What’s your point, #1?
But “Dear Leader” has millions to give to the moozie brotherhood in Egypt.
It was my experience that we were unable to use it anyways. I even had my SNCO sign off saying I could take classes starting immediately after normal working hours. The first two nights of class I had to miss due to work. I was able to attend the third night but not the fourth. At that point I realized it was impossible to take advantage of TA. I was in the airwing…I can only imagine how deserted the education office was for grunts. I don’t think it’s that big of a deal, since most of my Marines couldn’t benefit from the TA anyways…but I agree 100% that there are far better ways to cut the budget. I remember the emails every October saying “Find something to spend this money on, so we can get a bigger budget next year.”
Imagine what it’s like on a submarine. I saw a class offered exactly ONCE. Nobody finished it due to time constraints.
I’d like to know where you have time to do any kind of exercise on a sub, never mind anything else.
From the Navy.
Being on AC/RC I now have the time to work on my education. I have been using my TA, busting my ass trying to get a degree before I retire. Hopefully I can finish before the Army follows in the Marin’s footsteps.
@2 Information about scholarships.
I saw some units where a few guys had the chance to go, but for the most part it depended on the MOS operational tempo and base. I had one duty station where I knocked out 7 classes in 18 months, other than that it wasn’t feasible.
Honestly I have no idea how active duty Marines have the time to take any classes at all. It wasn’t even a consideration at any command I was at. Considering that there is a GI BILL and how amazing it is, I don’t have a problem with this additional program going at all.
@4, @11 I completely agree. I was stateside my entire enlistment in Security Forces and I barely had time to eat at a restaurant off base or go to a movie, let alone attend any college courses.
When I was active aboard USS Neverdock they’d fly out a professor to teach a class or two but the classes were usually nothing I was interested in. The only time we knew for sure we’d be in port was during shipyard availabilities or right after a cruise.
It’s bull that somebody sitting on a shore rotation can’t take a class or two, though.
I think this is a bad move especially when the DoD comptroller even says that all the services will be cutting funding. This was a bad move by the DoD.
Another reason to encourage the young’uns to NOT join the military.
E-mails now establish what we’ve suspected: The plan is to make the sequestration cuts (which aren’t actual cuts at all) hurt the public most. That necessarily means hurting the military and Veterans inasmuch as the majority of the public strongly favors the troops. It’s hard for obamaman to escape liability insofar as he is the one making the decisions as to where to inflict the pain. Nice fella, that obamaman. A real stand-up guy. Spit.
@ QMC … her point is that now that the Navy is canc’ing TA … our men and woman are and will be in need of other resources.
Our friend EX-PH2 is looking out for her people!
What is your point?
I think this is extremely unfortunate, especially at a time when degrees are almost necessary for promotions, at least based on what I’ve heard from Soldiers.
While likely impossible to earn credits while deployed, UMUC and many other reputable schools offer courses online. And before anyone knocks an online course or a degree from UMUC, try it first. Most major universities now offer online classes, and a degree from UoP was good enough to get into a MBA program at AZ State. TA isn’t a huge part of the budget, cap it or lower it, but don’t take it away.
One other point. GI Bill is only protected from sequestration until October. Look to see that program cut once AFG and IRQ fade from the public’s memory. SVA, VFW and the Legion have their lobbying work cut out for them over the next few years.
I turned down two scholarships to join the infantry….so I did not join for the education assistance, but having the benefit cut off is not wise on any level. Those who benefit are clearly the service member but also as Jonn points out the service as well by having a better educated force to deal with the constantly evolving technology associated with service these days.
It’s clear how this administration and its’ flunkies are handling this sequestration, by punishing the few who have the devotion to the nation to serve its interests….while not punishing the parasites who only feed off the nation. That is clearly a decided, deliberate move to indicate exactly what this administration and those associated with it really feel about the commitment to the nation our service members demonstrate on a daily basis.
I’ve heard rumblings on the smoke deck relating to this, and from the perspective that it costs money and doesn’t really help with the ‘USMC mission,’ it’s easy to see how they cut it. What’s next? Toys for Tots and the Ball are probably also on the ‘expensive non-mission critical’ list.
“What’s next? Toys for Tots and the Ball are probably also on the ‘expensive non-mission critical’ list.” Bingo. Good call.
Toys for Tots is independent of the Marines. It’s a non-profit group that the Marines assist as volunteers. It is funded entirely by donations from various sources and does not get taxpayers’ money.
As an active duty Marine, I have used the crap out of my TA since Oct of 2008. This cut sucks. I am 8 classes away from my BA in Psych.
Can a few Gen/Admir take a pay cut? How about we fire a few of the Civilian contractors.
Whatever…I will find a way to pay for my classes…
TTM, out.
@23 the thing about contractors is that we’ve already agreed to pay for them. So of all the fat that would be considered for cuts, they’re largely out of it. New contracts are a different matter.
And yet no word on cuts for the over-budget (to the tune of some $800 billion) , over-schedule, under-performance-specs F-35 program.
Weird….
Tactical Truck Monkey: Reaperman is correct. Unless a contract is incrementally funded in short (monthly/quarterly) increments and has the proper language, reducing or terminating an existing contract almost never nets more than 50 cents on the dollar in savings – and sometimes nowhere near that. Contractors often can recover “contract termination costs” that are a large fraction (if not most) of the outstanding balance. Even terminating a contract for non-performance sometimes allows the contractor to recover significant costs.
In short: once a contract is let, the government generally can’t get the money back. You might as well count those $$$ as spent.
#17 “Oh, well here are some other resources” seems to be dismissing the cancellation of TA.
@22 – While I was on “independent duty”, our unit got tagged every year to support Toys for Tots. On top of maintaining our daily work, all SNCO’s and others (GySgts and below) HAD to support that endeavor from late October through the holidays. That included pulling people out of their shops, utilizing gov’t motor pool assets, and we even had to give up some supply storage space. While it was a worthwhile project that was desiged around the “reserve” component, it was the active duty folks who did all the grunt work to make it successful.
Reaperman and Hondo:
Thanks! I am sure that I was aware of that, but in my rage over this whole TA deal…I must have dumped that info. Let’s not renew the contracts, and reinstate the TA.
As an active-duty Marine, I see civilians in the chowhall, what are Food Service Specialtist for? I see civilians guarding the gate, when I am sure that we have MP’s and I know that we have some Infantry Battalions (I am an 0369 Infantry Unit Leader) that are closing down, how about we FAP those grunts to the MP’s and put them to base security? We are already paying the Marines, why do we need to pay civilians for jobs that we can do internally?
@28 – My local paper reports it as strictly volunteer, including asking Marines to volunteer at the Navy band Christmas concert, when the entrance fee is a toy. I guess it’s handled differently at each location.
Tactical Truck Monkey: as far back as the 1970s, some support functions the military could and used to do (KP, cooks, Base/Post security guards, etc . . . ) began to be contracted out to improve the ratio of “shooters to support”. That trend picked up during the Reagan presidency as a way to make the military more effective, allow better training, etc . . . . Can’t speak to the Gulf War – but when the GWOT started, the process of contracting out support really went to town since it also allowed the reduction of the uniformed “footprint” in theater to a minimum (and hence lower military casualties). The American public gets way more spun up over casualties in uniform.
It’s kind of a “damned if you do, damned if you don’t” scenario. If the military “pluses up” and gets rid of many of the support contractors, troop strength goes up – but so do casualties, training costs, pension costs, medical costs, etc . . . . And peacetime training also suffers somewhat (more troops doing support vice MOS training). The contractors are generally IMO financially more expensive, particularly in-theater. Politically, however, they’re good there – fewer men/women in uniform at risk and coming home wounded/dead.
There’s a “best” mix between the two, but today IMO the mix is screwed up. I think we’ve swung way too far towards the contractor support end of the spectrum in theater today. We should IMO have a some more troops and a whole lot fewer civilians and contractors in theater today.
So why can’t the military split itself into two groups, one as deployment personnel and one as shore duty pukes? That’s what WAVES were during WWII and Korea and Vietnam. Women took the same rates as men, but stayed stateside, with some exceptions, while men were deployed to ships.
So why not do the same thing, especially with conchis and slackers who don’t want to deploy? And not just women — there are men who don’t want to deploy, or shouldn’t be anywhere near anything more important than emptying trash cans, like the little weasel on trial now. (Noticed how his initials are the same as gastrointestinal peristalsis?)
#31
Hondo…good point, I am speaking from the fact that as an instructor at the School of Infantry, I couldn’t order breakfast unless I spoke spanish, because half those workers would just look at me as if I had an elbow on my forehead, if I said “Eggs, Bacon, Rice”
All I’m saying is that it’s not cool that other services will retain education benefits for the time being. I bet some Navy spouse can use her “MyCAA” but I can’t use TA. We’ve been needing a kick in our ass for a long time – however not to a benefit like this.
At #30, I had originally written a long paragraph ranting about this topic. However, I don’t want anything to come across like there’s something wrong with Toys for Tots or the Marine Corps. However it is NEVER strictly volunteer. Yes I find myself volunteering because I don’t need my junior Marines working extra on the weekend.
DoD spending has been the highest its ever been since the end of WW2. There are so many programs the Pentagon could cut, but they wouldn’t dare axe any of their sweetheart sacred cows. The military has been using, more or less, the same post-Vietnam era equipment since the 80’s yet for some reason the MICC still funds every multi-billion dollar defense project without seeing any results. Crusader, EFV, FCS, OICW, and Commanche just to name a few disasters. All the while we have Petraeus and Allen jerkin off instead of trying to win a War. Disgusting
Meanwhile, B. Hussein 0bama plans next month’s multimillion dollar vacation on our money, and his lackeys continue to hand out as much as they can to every flunkie, dropout, and freeloader!
After seven deployments, a lot of moving, and a family, I found time to start working on a degree. Silly me, I thought I might actually get a chance to complete a degree with TA.
Sure, the budget won’t be balanced on our backs. Only because it would get in the way of them twisting the knife they stuck in there.
I’ve been on technical contracts for half a decade now and a lot of what is done by us could be done by skilled Marines. On the tech side of things, contractors provide a lot of stability needed because of the aggressive rotation cycle. We solve some of the turnover problems, and the general experience gap caused by not sitting at one desk for nearly long enough. If active duty rotations were cut down, (IMO) fewer of us contractors would be needed and more money would be saved by not moving people around so much. Technical types aside, solving the reliance on lawn-mowing contracts should be dead simple in comparison.
@ QMC …
First, I show courtesy by addressing you correctly.
Second, don’t barge into this conversation so smart and smug.
Seek to understand, before being understood!
EX-PH2 was not dismissing anything, she does not miss a beat on anything.
Again, you have missed the point!
@ QMC … one other thing.
Here we pride ourselves on information and personal integrity.
You seemed to miss quoted EX-PH2, you say: “Oh, well here are some other resources”
EX-PH2 said on March 6th, 2013 at 2:08 pm:
“There is an annual catalog published every year that provides information about grants and scholarships.
http://www.2012scholarships.com/index.htm
I don’t know if this is the right one, but I do know that there are literally thousands of sources of tuition funding available.”
It was just a bad take on his part, Chief. I get it and so do you. If I wasn’t familiar with Ex-PH2, I’d have understood it the same way. To the unfamiliar ear, it sounded like she was saying, ‘So what, there are loads of other resources.’ In fact, what she was saying was, ‘This sucks but don’t despair and quit. There are other resources.’
IIRC, the Marine Corps’ TA was about to be cut a year or two ago. It never happened, but this new report doesn’t surprise me. Based on some of the comments here, combined with what some prior service Marines who were joining the Army told me, Marines’ TA seems to be wishful thinking at best for a majority. There is always the minority of service members in every branch that maximizes TA year after year, but the Marines seem to put being a Marine ahead of all else. The Air Force enrolls its Airmen into the Community College of the Air Force, and the Navy is almost a degree producing program with some training (a Navy Recruiter that set up next to me at job fairs had only a few classes to go for her Masters. I was surprised until I found that she got a LOT of credit for completing the nuclear program. I can’t say much as I was given 54 semester hours for all of my training and experience. Like others have said, there are other resources. If all else fails, active duty can fall back on the GI Bill. You won’t find this anywhere online, though (I had to call VA to find out why my checks were short), but if you are active duty VA will only pay a prorated amount (cost of the course per month divided by numbers of days). After exhausting my TA a couple of years ago, I opted for the Montgomery GI Bill figuring it would be more beneficial to me and got my first deposit of $1499 for two classes over two months, making me pay a whole dollar out of pocket. It still cost almost nothing for the college, but if I had been out of uniform I’d have received full GI Bill amount and been able to pocket around $700. It makes sense to an extent as active duty still draws pay and allowances, but to me using the GI Bill while serving full-time is a waste of a valuable resource that is best saved for after… Read more »
I’m a Marine that just got out. I got my bachelor’s while I was in. It is very difficult, but it is not impossible. You basically have to swear off hitting the bars every weekend. Doing classes in person I found to be impossible; online’s the only thing that works with the crazy schedule. That combined with CLEP tests was basically what did it for me.
Here’s how big of a deal this was: I have my full GI bill available for a postgraduate degree. I found a PhD program that I can complete in four years if I work -really- hard at it. So I will be entering the workforce at 34 years old with a PhD and no debt.
Without TA, I would have entered the workforce at 34 years old at the ground level with a bachelor’s degree.That is an astronomical difference.
I used my college work in my job quite frequently… the reason I went with the degree I did was because I had experience in the area, I was good at it, and I liked the work I did. They were basically getting an extra 20 hours of work out of me each week for about $100 worth of cost to them. The people who are willing to use their free time to make themselves better at what they do and more prepared for the future -need- to be encouraged. This is a really shortsighted and stupid cut.
I just logged into goarmyed and as of today the Army has suspended TA.