More reasoned rhetoric from the CBC
Representative Corrine Brown, when asked by CNN news person, Brooke Baldwin, if this whole discussion about Traynor Martin is more about race than anything else, Brown claims that she went to a rally in support of a white girl who was murdered in Orange County. When asked the victim’s name, Browne answers “The young girl who was killed” and eventually admits that she doesn’t remember the name, then goes off on an irrelevant tirade about tax cuts and her (and the Congressional Black Caucus’) concern for the “chirrun”;
To me that’s the equivalent of a white person defending themselves from the charge of racism by announcing that they have a black friend. “I marched for a white girl” once doesn’t mean anything. The name Trayvon Martin is seared into her memory, but not the white girl’s name. That was sent to us by ROS.
From Old Trooper, a video by some irrelevant turd burglar who writes a cool rap song about starting a riot “All Black in My Hoodie”. You might want to wait until you get home from work before you watch it, if you watch it at all. It’s loud and profane, and I already told what it says.
I just picked up an M4 at the local gun show last weekend and ordered a few thousand rounds from Cheaper Than Dirt after Brownells put me on backorder. Not to start a run on ammo or anything, but Old Trooper also tells us that Department of Homeland Security has just ordered 175 million rounds of 5.56mm and 450 million rounds of .40 cal. Old Trooper asked me why they need that much ammo, and I think they don’t, they’re just driving up the price of ammo, so you might want to start stocking up. This payday.
Category: Dumbass Bullshit
What people in their right minds, vote these clowns into office?
Friends should not let their friends vote while high on crack… or drunk, or who are mentally incompetent… or who have drank too much kool aid
ARGH
No, they didn’t just order that much ammo. It’s an IDIQ contract. What they did was say they might buy up to a maximum of 450 million rounds over 5 years. That’s the contract ceiling. IDIQ means they can basically buy how ever much they want up to 450 million rounds at any time over a 5 year period. This provides a lot of flexibility, which means they can buy what they need at any particular time and not buy too much or too little. They could buy 20 rounds next month and then 100 million the month after, depending on requirements. The .gov dthen oesn’t have to do a contract for each purchase (which would be annoying and stupid), and they’re not locked into a set amount of product which might end up being too much or too little.
It’s a really common contract structure for this type of thing.
@3: Ok; why would they need up to 450 million rounds of .40 and have an open bid for 175 million of 5.56? If it was the DoD, then I could understand it, but we’re talking DHS.
So, ICE, the Coast Guard, Border Patrol, Secret Service and Customs and Border Protection need millions of rounds? Who’d a thunk it?
I didn’t realize they fired up so much ammo in training.
Forgot to add, Corinne Brown is a full-on idiot. But she walks hand in hand with Hank Johnson, Bob Rush, and the rest of the idiots. Seems to be a requirement for membership in the Aggrieved Club.
Since when does any government agency spend or supply based on what they need, oldtrooper? I wasn’t aware of the DHS ammo contract, but I can’t say it’s surprising.
Doesn’t it stand to reason that the suppliers will have to withhold stocks of ammunition from the market in order to meet a need from the government at a moment’s notice? Wouldn’t withholding those stocks of ammunition from the market drive up the cost to consumers? I mean, that’s a lot of ammunition, even for me.
Would the government buy the ammo to destroy it?
Note the use of the words “up to”. That’s the most they can/will buy under the contract. They can buy less if they don’t need as much. Like I said, the idea is flexibility in the contract. And that’s the big item people are missing every time this sort of thing comes up. They could order 1 million tomorrow and never issue a delivery order again if they felt like it. Hell, they could cancel it after one year if they felt like it (it’s a 12 month contract with 4 option years).
Also, let’s play with some numbers. We’ll assume all 6,700 or so HSI guys from ICE carry handguns, the 21,370 BP agents are qualified, plus 360 water cops, and 5% (2093) of the USCG carries handguns (I’ve got no numbers on that and made it up). That’s 30,523 folks, and I bet I’m missing people. Which works out to about 245 rounds of ammo per agent per month if they exercised the full amount (which, of course, they don’t have to).
I shot twice that amount at a weekend pistol course.
Basically, all this means is that for the next few years if DHS buys ammo they get it from ATK.
@7: Granted; however, even in the folly of what they want; that’s a whole lotta luvin by any stretch. A request that wouldn’t raise eyebrows would be “up to 100 million .40 over up to 5 years”, which would average 20 million rounds per year to be fired out of handguns. Still a lot of ammo, but more plausible than 450 million. That doesn’t even count the open bid on 5.56, which by itself is an open bid for 175 million, not “up to”, but just straight out 175 million. Did DHS take over one of the ammo dumps at Ft. Dix or something, where they can store all this?
I agree with Jonn that they want to price it out of our civilian reach, because it’s already much more expensive than it was in 2007, when a crate of 500 rounds would cost you about $80 and since late 2008 it cost $30-$35 for a box of 100 on sale. It doesn’t take much to jack the price of 5.56/.223 into unobtainium range, if a person will even be able to find it, because it will probably be “back ordered” and when it does come in, it will cost you twice as much for half the amount.
Jonn: IDIQ contracts don’t generally drive up prices much, if at all. And they’re common for more than ammo – the Army used them for office-type computer purchases for years, and may still do so. The items ordered are typically fabricated after they’re ordered vice stockpiled ahead of time for future delivery.
“Doesn’t it stand to reason that the suppliers will have to withhold stocks of ammunition from the market in order to meet a need from the government at a moment’s notice?”
Depends on the contract. Usually the production lead time is worked out somewhere in there. I also highly doubt anybody would agree to have a lot of crap sitting around their own warehouse in addition to their usual stock, as space is money.
So my answer would be a probable “no”.
ATK/Federal makes plenty of this kind of ammo normally, and if they make more for the contract than they need they’ll just sell it as surplus. Like they do now. Lucky Gunner has it at $22 for a box of 50 rounds.
@11,
I just checked the solicitation and, yes, the 5.56mm contract is also IDIQ. Same deal as with the .40 cal.
Also, what .223 ammo were you buying and from whom back in ’07 for $80 per 500? I remember paying around $110 for XM193 Lake City surplus.
And the climb in ammo prices has less to do with supply (which got thin for a bit but was still easily found) and more to do with the price of copper. Which is partly why the steel cased stuff (hooray for Wolf) is still pretty reasonable.
Here’s were my concern goes: I get the need for ammo, but up to 450 million rounds? Sure they need ammo for training, but who goes to the range to train/qual with hollowpoints when ball is much cheaper? I admit I’ll blow through a box of HP once in a while to make sure my pistols will still feed it properly, but I don’t run HP exclusively at the range, that would get damn expensive.
@16,
Bunch of reasons
(1)That would involve two contracts, which costs money.
(2)Two logistics chains, which costs money.
(3)Two testing regimes, which cost money.
(4)The more you buy, the less you pay per unit. So buying less of one will slightly increase the per unit cost. You might not save money, or at least as much as you might think.
Plus, it really is better to train with the ammo you use.
@15: A private individual with an FFL. It wasn’t Lake City XM193, which is 5.56mm. It was .223, and Lake City usually costs more than what I can purchase .223 for, even now. I have some XM193 American Eagle 5.56 that, on sale, cost me $10 more per box of 100 than what I buy Federal .223 for, not on sale, and the XM193 costs $5 more than American Eagle AE.223 for a 100 round box. Lake City usually comes in the 20rd. box for $12 at most sporting goods stores (ok, $11.88, so close enough for gummint work). The difference between XM193 and regular .223 isn’t worth the extra money spent on it, in my opinion. I don’t have a lot of extra money to play with, so I’m very aware of the cost of ammo for my weapons and I look for deals wherever I can find them. When I come across a dealer or website that has good deals, I tell my friends about it and some make purchases from them (Jonn used one of my leads to score some ammo, but even though it’s a good deal, the shipping gets you in the end).
Suffer the lil’ chirrens to come unto me. Jesus said that, you know.
If an angry black womans vagina could talk… that is what it would sound like.
175 million rounds of 5.56mm? Your standard Infantry unit goes through that in about a week at the range.