Getting ahead of the PTSD thing
Dirty Mick sends us a link to the story of Jason Edward Prostrollo, 25, a veteran who was shot by police in a stand-off in Scottsdale, Arizona early Saturday.
The incident unraveled just after 4 a.m. when a 35-year-old woman called police reporting that her boyfriend was in a fight with another man who had a knife.
While police were responding to the couple’s residence near 136th Street and Via Linda, they received another call allegedly prompted by the same suspect.
The caller was a cabdriver who said a male customer held a knife to his throat and forced him to drive back to the neighborhood where he was picked up, from which the first call came.
When police arrived, they called the female victim and her 50-year-old boyfriend out of the house. Both victims were unharmed.
The suspect shortly followed with the pool cues in hand, Clark said.
Apparently, what happened next; the police released a dog, “Raider”, on Prostrollo at the same time that another police officer fired two shots, one round hit and killed Prostrollo and the other wounded Raider, who, by all accounts, is recovering nicely.
Some of Prostrollo actions as described in the media could lead folks to think that Prostrollo was a victim of PTSD, but Dirty Mick writes to tell us that Prostrollo has been a little nutty since high school and that this has little to do with his military service or his deployment to the war against terror. Dirty Mick must know the guy because he’s going to the funeral along with Operator Dan.
So, this is a preemptive move to warn any journalists who are doing a Google search for background on Prostrollo, that we can put you in contact with people who will dispute your claim that Prostrollo suffered from PTSD and died as a result of his military service.
Category: Media, Veterans Issues
That argument wont hold water. If he was afraid of this guy or this guy had made a pass at him why on gods green earth did he go back? Most people would have gotten in that cab and left never to return. Instead he chose to pull a knife on the cabbie and go back to the house.
This young man made some bad choices and those choices cost him his life, plain and simple. Were the cops justified in shooting him? I dont know and I wasnt there so I wont pass judgement.
The whole point of this article wasnt to pass judgement on either side but to try to head the whole PTSD thing off at the pass.
This kid was out in the middle of nowhere
Uh, scooter, no. Via Linda and 136th is about 4-5 miles from my family’s old house (think Paradise Valley.)
And if you know this guy so well, what’s his name? Why has he not been reported to the police? Why didn’t YOU report him to the police?
Finally, Aroberts is dead on–you don’t come back to a place by holding a knife to a cabbie’s throat if you feel threatened. Sorry, throwing the bullshit flag high and far.
So I packed my two 5 month old boys on an airplane, flew across the country, and paid my respects to Jason Edward Prostrolo. I went to the bar (where Jason’s friends set up a small gathering) and I admit that I was hoping to run into one of you…”brothers”. Alas, it wasn’t to be. The only guys I ran into were his real brothers from his unit. I was proud to buy them all drinks for about an hour. They were furious at the Scottsdale cops because, as they noted, if a Marine had shot and killed some afghani wielding a pool stick, they’d be sent to prison for life.
Cindy McCain paid her respects too. She was like Jason’s second mother and her love for Jason was obvious judging by her tear filled remarks at the church. Her address to over 500 people was heartfelt and full of sincerity and even NHSparky and the rest of you shit-birds could have seen that this guy was loved. (Cindy also made it back to the bar and stayed with us for almost 4 hours. Very cool. I wonder if any of you guys showed. I doubt it.)
In the coming months, details about the events leading up to the shooting will emerge. (That is, if Scottsdale police follow the law and finally release the official police report). When these details surface, I guarantee that some of you will begin to ask questions. For now though, please, stay in the dark, take the police at their word, there’s nothing to see here, everything will be ok.
@103- you still don’t get it. What we’re doing is saying that PTSD has no bearing on this case. PTSD doesn’t make someone pull a knife on a cabbie. PTSD doesn’t make someone charge police with pool cues, dragging a K-9 along with you. Deeper issues cause that. However, the media loves to claim PTSD for everything, and that impacts the way people who actually have PTSD are looked at. It’s a revival of the “crazy vet” meme that we’re fighting. Go ahead and look at how many movies made in the late ’70s, up through the 80’s had crazy Vietnam veterans in them. It took awhile for that to die down, despite there being no real-world supporting incidents to go along with it. People just knew that Vietnam vets were crazy, because they saw “First Blood” or “Back to School” or “The Deer Hunter”, or “Taxi Driver”, or “Dead Presidents”, or any of the other countless movies that needed a dark, brooding psycho or a raving lunatic, that found an easy mark in the Vietnam vet. No wasted script pages on back story, explaining how he got there. Nope, just mention to the audience that he was a Vietnam vet, and they understand- unstable, broken mind.We don’t want that to happen again.
Very few of us here knew your cousin. Most of us here will feel the impact of his death, if certain people get their way. I hope that you’ll be able to see that afer a few months or years, we weren’t cheering because the cops shot Jason. We just weren’t very thrilled about the manner in which he died, and it’s potential to set back years of work that the vet community has spent rebuilding our image in society.
Teddy–forget it–you’re not going to get through to him. I guess because we’re not willing to excuse someone’s bad behavior, that somehow makes us shitbirds.
But they’re just fine letting the media play the PTSD card and by extension label all of us as raging psychos simply because we raised our right hand and took an oath to defend our nation.
Sparky…well you thought wrong (again). 135th St.
and Via Linda were just the main cross streets where that incident happened. I’ve known this guy for many years and believe me…he is most definately in the police system. His house is actually on 136th Place…no where near Paradise Valley.
I never once said that Jason’s behavior that night was acceptable…just that there MAY be underlining circumstances to make someone react like that.
Maybe he needed to spend some time in jail…but he certainly did not deserve to lose his life. Have some compassion and stop being so condesending (scooter). This was a young man who really never even got to start living his life. I’m done here…
I never said HE lived in PV…my folks old house is PV, however. And the house in question is only about 4-5 miles away. Nowhere near “the middle of nowhere”. My aunt’s home, OTOH–THAT was out in the middle of nowhere.
So please, tell me what justifies holding a knife to the throat of a cab driver, a total stranger who had done nothing to provoke this young man, and forcing him to take him back to a scene from which the police had been once already. I guess I’m a little confused on that one. Again, not the mark of a “nice” guy.
And I agree, his death was in fact tragic, but HE HIMSELF has nobody to blame but himself. You have nobody to blame–not the police, not yourselves, not me. What treatment did he seek? What did his so-called friends and relatives do to try to convince him counseling (or more) was not only a good idea, but NECESSARY? Calling us shitbags and worse for pointing that out isn’t exactly helping his or your cause.
I don’t even think he necessarily needed to spend some time in jail–one would have hoped he would have stopped and reevaluated his behavior before that point. But as long as others are telling him that pointing weapons and threatening people isn’t a big deal, he’ll keep doing it, and did until it ultimately killed him.
If in fact the cops acted outside their policy/guidelines, I’ll be right here with you hoping the bad cop(s) who did it get bent over and slammed with a pineapple. But if not, taking responsibility…it’s gonna have to happen sometime.
Again, if it can be shown that his service can DIRECTLY be linked to his behavior (and as Operator Dan has stated, he was like this PRIOR to his service) then the PTSD line is horseshit, and to use it taints all honorable vets.
The thing is, even if PTSD was a contributing factor to his behavior what it boils down to is he is responsible for his own behavior. One of the big topics of discussion with my shrink and with my PTSD support group is taking responsibility for our actions. PTSD doesnt give a person free reign to do what ever they want.
*Breaking news… Another officer involved shooting in Scottsdale. This time the “suspect” was not carrying life threatening pool sticks – he was carrying a baby. The police confirmed that the man was completely unarmed, that is, unless a drooling, pooping child counts as a weapon.
*takes a deep breath…
Do you vets hear what I’m saying? The very reason you went to war was to protect and defend our nation’s citizens, our constitutional laws, and our culture. The cops seem to be ignoring the constitution they swore to defend and the one you all so bravely defended. Instead of really listening to see if the cops stories hold water, instead of holding the police accountable when they fire their weapons, you guys blindly defend the uniformed personnel as if they are somehow more sacred than the citizenry. Your main concern seems to be the reputation veterans will get if Jason’s family, or any other “loose cannon Marine” claims PTSD. Thus, the title of this thread. But you’ve lost sight of the thing that matters most – the rights of the American citizen.
The officer who killed the man Tuesday night has shot 7 people since 2002. Are you ok with that too Sparky? Do you believe that an officer who shoots 7 different people in 9 years is an “anomaly” as the police described? Jesus, I hope not.
I don’t care if you’re T.J. Hooker. The odds are very long that a single officer will fire his weapon even once during his career. 7 times is a mathematical impossibility unless you are a complete psychopath or unless you just like shooting human beings.
The story of Jason Edward Prostrolo is NOT a story of an out of control soldier with PTSD – It is a story of the abuse of authority by Police. Tuesday’s shooting just confirms my point.
*This is the part where Sparky says: “Hmm…maybe you’ve got a point”
No, this is the point where Hondo says, “Wanna post a link?”
No, this is the part where I tell you to quit being such a fucking drama queen. Oh, and links help… http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news/articles/2012/02/15/20120215shooting-seventh-scottsdale-police-officer.html Officer James Peters shot 50-year-old John Loxas on Tuesday evening after police were called to a house in the 7700 block of East Garfield Street, near Hayden and McKellips roads. Neighbors had called 911 earlier and said Loxas had threatened them with a handgun. Peters, a former member of the department’s SWAT team, was one of six officers who responded to the call. The 12-year police veteran is on administrative leave, which is standard after any police shooting, said Sgt. Mark Clark, a Scottsdale police spokesman. According to the 911 call, the neighbors said Loxas was pushing his 9-month-old grandsonin a stroller and walked over and kicked a neighbor’s trash can into the street. When another neighbor went to pick it up, Loxas returned with the baby in his arms and started yelling, “You got a problem with that?” the caller tells the dispatcher. “The guy pulls out a gun, cocks it and aimed it at him.” When officers arrived, Loxas had returned to his house, but came to the door with the baby in his arms, police said. Peters and another officer told investigators that they saw a black object in Loxas’ hand. Loxas turned to go back inside when Peters, who was standing 18 feet away at the edge of the driveway, shot him in the head with his patrol rifle, police said. “(Loxas) was holding the baby in his left arm in front of his upper body and face. Moments later, he reached down to his right, lowering the baby, clearly exposing his head and upper body. Officer Peters responded to the movement with a single shot (to) the suspect’s head. The suspect fell to the ground and the baby was rescued by officers. The suspect died instantly,” Clark said. Peters “felt he had to prevent him from re-entering the house,” Clark said. “The intent was to rescue the baby.” Investigators later determined that Loxas was not carrying a gun but had a cellphone in… Read more »
Now, let’s put this in perspective…man kicks can into street, then pulls a gun on a person. Cops are called. Man is uncooperative, presents a threat and has something in his hand which appeears to be a gun (isn’t, and that’s tragic, but more on that later.) Warrant later reveals said gun stashed in couch among other little nasties.
Compare this to the case in San Clemente, where a guy never showed a weapon, never threatened anyone, and got into his car with his children, and was then shot. No gun found, no publication of the officer involved, union covering his ass.
Seeing the difference now? Had you paid attention in the other thread there, you would have noticed the difference in my reactions. Was Jason in fact diagnosed with PTSD from competent mental authority, or is that just something someone threw out there hoping it would stick?
Frankly, again, I’m a bit suspect about that claim, considering 1–he had violent tendencies before he joined the Corps, 2–there was never any indication he sought any sort of treatment or counseling.
Again, try to understand the difference, m’kay?
I never said Jason was diagnosed with PTSD because I don’t know if he was or wasn’t.
BTW, I love the lingo:
– “Uncooperative”
– “Presents a threat”
– “Gun stashed”
– “Afraid for their lives”
– “Advancing towards”
– “Going back into the house”
Gee, I wonder if police found a “cache of weapons”. Maybe “they both reached for the gun”.
The only righteous thing you’ve said so far was that the union was covering the ass of the San Clemente guy.
Hey Spark-balls, here’s the link you should have posted. Now, go home and get your fucking shine box.
http://www.azcentral.com/community/scottsdale/articles/2012/02/15/20120215shooting-seventh-scottsdale-police-officer.html
@113 Holy crap!! Note to self… Avoid Scottsdale
I wonder how long of a paid vacation (administrative leave during shooting investigation) this cop gets everytime he shoots someone?
Enough, already! Alex, you have repeatedly demonstrated an utter lack of credulity here, with heaping mounds of intellectual hypocrisy added for effect. We got that about you with your first post.
You are either clinically insane, if you actually expect to keep doing the same thing here with different results, or you are just a garden variety troll. Either way, your infirmities are beyond the scope of our ability to solve via this medium.
But feel free to continue whining about this and any other issue that strikes your fancy. For this week anyway, acting stupid in public is still lawful activity. And most entertaining in a perverse, sad sorta way.
I don’t know if he was or wasn’t.
But you’re so fucking certain of everything else, shine boy. You weren’t at either scene, but in your wee mind, all cops are wrong, all the time. Hell, you’re 2500 miles away. What the fuck do you know about Phoenix, shine boy?
Ever lived there? Spent any time in the “Kidnapping Capital of America?” Any idea of the violent crime rate there? (Hint: about double the national average.)
Do SOME cops do stupid shit? Yup–goes with being human. Are they all thugs with badges out to get your worthless ass? Frankly, Alex, I doubt they give two shits about you. Yes, the bad seeds should and do get weeded out. But for you to get butthurt over the fact someone shot your friend who was in fact acting in a manner that was 1–stupid, 2–putting himself at risk, quit projecting your fucking guilt onto everyone else and move the fuck on.
Wanna do something productive? Find someone like Jason, and get them help before that situation is visited upon them, mkay?
So before you accuse me of defending cops blindly, look at my comments regarding the Orange County incident, as well as the incident regarding Jose Guerna down in Tucson. Look at how I’ve criticized my own local police for their lack of response to a 911 call (2 1/2 HOURS to respond to a call.)
Now pretty please, go eat a fat bag of dicks.
here’s the link you should have posted.
Funny, that looks EXACTLY like the link I DID post, dickhead.
Alex: are you uactually nable comprehend written English, or are you just too lazy to read?
NHSparky posted a link to what appears to be an identical article (right down to the “Reporter John Genovese contributed to this article.” line at the end) in #111 above. And he did that more than an hour and a half before you posted your link.
Point a gun at your neighbor, and you’re best advised to be really polite and cooperative when the police come to your house to talk.
Obviously, the 5th word of post #118 above should be spelled “unable”. Thought I’d best clarify that for Alex’s benefit.
Does Officer James Peters win a date with Janet Reno when he gets to 10 shootings (or actually kills a child while “saving it”)?
Does 8 in 10 years seem a bit much? Sure. Would your opinion be any different had it been the first time he ever drew a weapon?
Why do I think it would not change a thing in your mind?
8 in 10 might be a multitude in Beverly Hills, but not so much in South Central LA.
For instance.
I have known Jason for years (almost 8yrs) in that amount of time of knowing him never did I see the horrific.things ppl on here are bashing him to be. I had an intimate relationship close.friendship im ceertian I know who he was. Jason and I opened up to eachother frequently I know for fact he was suffering ptsd not just from war but from personal life trajedies..i too have ptsd but how from severe chilshood abuse so im no fool to the signs and.tall tale signs. Im so ashamed heat broken and dissapointed in the thinggs ive read on here. First off those of you who say he was your friend how could you be so hurtfull towads his family durring their loss?! This is a public site not private if I can find it so can his.grieving father you obviously didnot have a friendship qirh him. Big diff between aquantance and.friend. Asto jason solving fights with violence is blasphemy sheeeblasphemy jason was a good guy example one night out a jerk off pushed me to ground and.ripped my shirt open, jason came to my immediate rescue helped me up gave me his shirt and never once threw a punch wipped out a weapon he pushed the guy away from me skollded him didnt even scream..he handled ir like a perfect gentleman..now if he was such an aggressive violent loose canyon type of a man this wouldve been perfect opportuniry for him to go nuts and be aggressive. Maybe you werent considered a friend in hismind so henever showed you the real version of himself!! He was a beautiful man he did.have a perfect life he is human he did HIS best to deal with his hurt saddness and pain we all cope differently no two ppl arealike incoping so quit comparing him to how youve done it or what you wouldve done diff. There is nothing any of you can say that will changey memories of him or truth of who he was. Like the guy who seatch a week for me after seeinh me through a store… Read more »