Naw, this ain’t class warfare at all
The Washington Post this morning decides that for some reason they’d take some shots at Mitt Romney’s income taxes by publishing a chart from Citizens for Tax Justice who they say “is liberal-leaning but nonpartisan”. Yeah, I could almost imagine the Post calling an organization like the Cato Institute or the Heritage Fountation “right-leaning, but non-partisan”. But here’s the chart, which, you already know shows Romney taxes going down;
But the cheapest shot is that they still call it “the Bush tax cut for the rich” like you can’t say any of those words without the other in Liberal Land. I seem to remember the whole country in an uproar when the bush tax cuts were about to expire and everyone suddenly realized that everyone’s taxes were going up, not just the rich.
But, me personally, I hate taxes and I don’t trust anyone else to do my taxes. My taxes hover around 5% of my real income because I take every tax credit I can find. It might go up a few points this year because I used up all of my home improvement tax credits last year.
The difference between me and the Washington Post, I don’t wish for anyone to pay higher taxes than they do. If Romney legally takes steps to avoid paying taxes, good for him. If he has plan to reduce taxes for the rest of us, good for him again. I’m not jealous because other people pay a lower rate than me, and I’m not jealous if they make more money than me, they probably worked harder at it than I did.
It does not matter what the AGI is – what matters is whittling the number down via deductions, credits, and other nonsense to lower the Taxable Income number. Romney’s numbers (%) were similar to mine but obviously much more in total dollars.
How about a taxation system that takes a flat 10% – no deductions, exemptions, or other BS writeoffs by individuals or corporations alike?
A flat 10% taken from all income. The Congress would (temporarily) have more money than could be wasted.
Frank–glad you put the temporary qualifier in there, because God knows that once there’s an influx of cash, Congress will find more ways than Carter has little pills to spend it, then come back and want more.
Let’s not forget that, historically speaking, when capital gains tax rates are increased capital gains tax revenues decrease. Are the folks at Citizens for Tax Justice really ignorant enough to believe that if the government raises the capital gains tax rate people like Romney (and Obama, Kerry, Buffett, etc. for that matter) won’t just find some other way to invest their money to avoid the higher rate?
F*ck percentages – Romney paid $3million?
And 155,100,000 Americans (47%) paid $0? Aren’t they f*cking oppressed!
Romney just paid the operating costs for most VA Vet Centers in a major city alone. How much did Soltz or any of the POS in OWS pay? How many vets are they actually, provably supporting?
AndyN: the folks at Center for Tax Justice aren’t ignorant. They are paid employees marketing what they’re paid to market.
@DaveO – BINGO!!!
Let’s not forget that this is an apple to oranges argument.
Romney is paying 15% on the interest earned on his investments. In other words, the bulk of the money that the leftists are complaining about was once earned income and had taxes paid out of it already. This 15% is taxes paid on the money earned from that investment. If he was required to pay taxes on the entire amount, he would be double-taxed and that is inherently unfair, and anathema to venture capital, but it squares with the pretty-pony fantasy-land financial system that the left lives in.
Besides, the money that is invested is also at risk to him because it is used to lend out to other businesses, allowing them to create jobs and grow our economy, again, a concept that the left simply cannot understand.
Without wealth, their is no investment in business, and without investment in business, the economy stagnates then tanks. That is why government-controlled economies will ALWAYS fail. They cannot generate the capital to invest because they have eliminated the venture capitalists.
I despise Romney. If he’s the GOP nominee, I’m sitting out the election because he’s an albino Obama, not one whit of political difference between the two. Both are lying, conniving, two-faced crapweasels.
But he’s at least honest enough to actually pay what he owes, and contributes to his church and charities. I’ll give him that much.
AW1 Tim: please don’t sit out the election – vote downticket for your beliefs. The Senate, House, and local elections are America’s future, not whomever’s sitting in the Oval Orifice.
Taxes our the price we pay for a civilized society. Don’t come crying to me- or anyone else for that matter- when President Obama slashes the military budget. In the words of Herman Caine, “blame yourself”.
I’m SO sick and tired of the “taxes are paid on it already” argument. Sales taxes are taxed previously, so our property taxes. Yet none of you Conservatives decry that. Why? Because those taxes effect poor and middle class. But all of a sudden, when a tax effects wealthy people- like the inheretence tax and the special rate for capitol gains tax THEN all of a sudden being taxed twice is god-awful.
If anything, Romney should be taxed at a higher rate than earned income, because we want to encourage people to create value by working, rather than just living parasitically on the labor of others. If you want to make an argument that unearned income should be taxed at a lower rate, go right ahead. But don’t give me the dual-taxation argument. Because the same argument can be applied to just about any tax you like.
Also, did you remember to thank President Obama for the home improvement tax credits built into the stimulus that you took advantage of. Or would acknowledging that the stimulus worked be too painful for you?
insipid – the poor and the middle class pay next to nothing on their property and sales taxes. John Kerry avoided, what? $7 million in sales taxes on his boat. How many poor people does it take to pay that? 50, 100 million?
Any time you get two neurons firing in sequence, you’ll vote TEA Party, and love it. Until then you remain a tool of the GOP.
Uh, the tea party is a tool of the GOP. Last i looked, all the newly elected (and soon to be unelected) Tea party congressmember and Senators are Republican.
If Massachussetts is anything like Ohio, Kerry will still have to pay Use tax which applies to sales from different states. Most people don’t pay it, but the law says you’re supposed to. It would be pretty hard for Kerry to avoid paying it on a sale that large.
Also, the poor pay a very large percentage of their income in sales tax because they spend virtually every cent they make. A middle class property owner also pays a very large percentage of their income in taxes.
And going by percentage of income is really the only fair way to look at it. Yes, in real dollar amounts, the poor pay less because they have less dollars. But when 2% of the country owes 50% of it then of course they’re going to pay a higher dollar amount, they have a lot more dollars. If someone is making over a million a year then the amount over a million should be taxed at 30% (i would say 50%). If you don’t see the connection between them paying less and your paying more than you ought to consider having your neurons examined.
Bleh bleh bleh… not a single original thought.
Yeah, like no one ever thought to say “class warfare”, “Big Government” and “too much taxes” before. You Conservatives are all about origitnality.
“The poor pay a very large percentage of their income in sales tax”. Uh, no, Insipid. Because the “poor’s” single biggest expense is food. They get bridge cards for that, and that isn’t taxable. Then it’s rent, usually, and they get subsidies for that. If they’re driving Escalades and Expeditions, they do pay sales taxes on those. And don’t say they don’t, you’d be lying.
So, you think the Occutards are going to take over Congress? You have an ever bigger disconnect with reality than you’ve demonstrated previously here.
“It would be pretty hard for Kerry to avoid paying it on a sale that large”. He managed to avoid it for a long time, until his purchase and sudden decision to dock his boat in Rhode Island became public. And, where’s the call for him and Teresa to pay more, how come it’s just Mittens? Or, are you being a typical liberal, that’s hypocritical
Thanks for all the racist stereotypes. Of course any black person behind the wheel of an escalade or expedition in your world must be on food stamps. I’ve lived and worked in the black and poor communities. The idea that they’re living high on the hog off government largess is bullshit. But at least you didn’t use the welfare Queen analogy of your favorite bigot-in-chief, Ronald Reagan. Score points for that.
I read the article regarding Kerry’s supposedly avoiding sales tax and it proves nothing of the sort. All it does is state that he’s docking the boat in a certain area. Neither you nor the author knows WHY he’s docking it there. The author just assumes it is to avoid taxes but doesn’t bother to ask. Either way, my point remains valid, the tax for large purchase items like this one is usually based on where you live, not where you buy it or dock it at.
Also, i AM calling for Kerry to pay more, as well as Bill Gates and Warren Buffet and Barack Obama. So are all 4 of those gentlemen. Do you really think that liberals are calling for a tax on JUST Mittens? The tax we’re proposing is on ALL rich people.
The reason why Mittens is used as an example is twofold 1. He’s supporting an unfair tax system, Kerry isn’t. 2. He’s running for President.
UH, insipid, I’ve reread UpNorth’s post four or five times and I did’t see any mention of the words, “…escalade or expedition…must be on food stamp” nor did I read the words “living high on the hog off government largess”. He didn’t mention ‘race’, he merely stated that anyone who drives those vehicle paid taxes on the. He also didn’t mention ‘race’ in his comments that yes the poor pay a larger percentage of they pay check they are subsidized for the two largest expenses for EVERYONE.
Yes it does matter where you ‘dock your boat.’ In the trucking industry many companies base their trucks in certain states that have lower taxes, lower licensing fees, etc.
Oh don’t bullshit me. He’s using the standard Lee Atwater dog whistle that was perfected by Reagan. Reagan didn’t need to say “black” when he was referring to welfare queens and UpNorth doesn’t need to say it when he’s talking about welfare cheats driving around in Escalades.
It may very well matter where he docks his boat, but there are other reasons why he may want to dock his boat there besides taxes. Maybe he likes the area, maybe he goes sailing with a friend who lives near there or maybe he is trying to avoid taxes. The point is that the author of the article has no idea why he docked his boat there and neither do you.
Remember when Robert Novak hit the biker and then drove off? I’ll admit fully that i had the man convicted of hit and run in my mind before i heard the facts. Then i found out he had a brain tumor and he honestly did not know he hit anyone. It’s possible for there to be other explanations for things besides nefarious ones.
Why insipid, you’re a mind reader! I bet you’re a hit on the party circuit!?
You say the author and I don’t ‘know’ what kerry was thinking when he moved his boat but you ‘know’ what UpNorth was thinking when he was writing. All he said was “the ‘poor’s’ biggest…” You’re the one who brought race into this thread. Who’s stereotyping?
When did I say kerry moved his boat to avoid taxes? All I did was give an example, that I have first hand knowledge of, why he might want to move his boat.
insipid–if the shoe fits man, whatever. So tell me, would you be willing to break down, by ethnicity/race, which groups have higher PERCENTAGES of their groups on the dole, so to speak? And then explain to me how or why this is a racist question?
Mkay, thanks for playing.
20 Exactly. Blacks and latinos are statistically overrepresented both on the welfare rolls and amongst Americans living below the poverty line. It’s not racist to point that out and anyone who says that it is is just playing the race card. The sad fact of the matter is that most blacks and hispanics grow up in an entitlement culture where everything is paid for and they are never taught the value of hard work. Then they grow up to be shiftless and lazy, willing to lie, cheat, and even steal to get what they want because they are too damn slothful to do real work.
It is class warfare. I am not going to get wrapped up in the demographics of just who they are but here are two salient facts.
1. 47% of Americans pay no income tax. It would be clearer to say that pay taxes, but qualify for refunds equal to or above what they paid.
2. Even if you taxed everyone who made over $100,000 at a 100% rate, that would still not be sufficient to pay off our spending and debt.
So when the President talks about everyone paying their fair share he’s really only talking about a select few. America doesn’t have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem. Mr. “Share your wealth” isn’t going to change that one iota.
Admittedly, I have not checked recently, but historically, the majority of folks in this country on the dole were white. Has that changed???
And why would it be racist to want to change the non-prductive into productive citizens? It seems that it is the libs who are saying that persons of certain ethnicities are incapable of taking care of themselves so whitie has to “take care of them.” In other words, enslave them.
@22–he’s really only talking about a select few.
Oh, that’s what the Democrats WANT you to think. I’m not one of the 1 percent, but I guarangoddamntee you that had the 2001-03 tax cuts expired, I’d be paying a LOT more in taxes. And corporate taxes? Newsflash–corporations don’t pay taxes, just collect them.
@23–the majority of folks in this country on the dole were white. Has that changed???
No, that would be correct. But when you consider that non-Hispanic whites still comprise the majority of our population, that really shouldn’t come as a surprise. I did a quick Google search, and here’s what I found:
http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/statbriefs/sb2-95.html
Race: About 1 in 4 Black mothers of childbearing ages (1.5 million) were AFDC recipients, higher than the 7 percent of corresponding White mothers (2.1 million). Despite these differences in recipiency rates, Black AFDC mothers did not have significantly more children than their White counterparts.
It goes on to say that about 1 in 5 Hispanic women are on AFDC.
Your ball, insipid.
Hey, Insipid, project much? I know you don’t know what that means, so go look up projection.
I never mentioned race, as has been pointed out by some of the posters. I never equated an Escalade or an Expedition to a particular race, or a welfare cheat, as was also pointed out. You were the one that dragged race into a discussion of poor people, racist. But then, like most liberals, you don’t have arguments, you just have “feelings”.
And, I’d be willing to bet that I’ve spent far more time “in the black community” than you have or ever will, skippy.
So, any time you want to apologize for your racist stereotypes, Insipid, feel free.
I know there’s no point in trying to educate someone who proudly labels himself as an idiot. With that said, he is particularly obtuse when he spouts off about sales and property taxes. Like many statists, he muddles and confuses the issue of federal taxes vs. state and local taxes. It’s a lot easier for them to jump up and down screaming about who should pay a “fair share” when they can just pretend that taxes below the federal level don’t exist for the people they hate so much. I hate to tell you this, dumbass, but you can’t have it both ways on state/local taxes.
Using the Romney example, he (Romney) most likely pays a shit ton of state and local taxes. If he still resides or has property in a state like Massachussetts, that’s a certainty. Like anyone else that actually pays taxes after everything is said and done, that percentage jumps up quite a bit.
One more thing for the resident proglodyte: If the poor are getting hosed so badly on state and local taxes where you live, why are you still sitting on your ass and being stupid in these comments? Why aren’t you raising hell with your local and state elected officials about it?
Not just MA, Ranger–he’s got a nice house on Lake Winnipesaukee here in NH that he pays a nice hunk of coin to the state every year in property taxes. Last I heard, that lake house was worth about $10 million, and if it assesses for anywhere near that, he’s looking at shelling out on the order of $125K for just this year alone.