Mefloquine, Guantanamo and TruthOut.org
It seems that the newest story going around is a claim that we used Mefloquine on the detainees as a experiment of the side effects along with other reasons. TruthOut is even going to calling this “Pharmacologic Waterboarding”.
Army Staff Sgt. Joe Hickman, who was stationed at Guantanamo at the time of the suicides in 2006, and has presented evidence that demonstrates the three detainees could not have died by hanging themselves, noticed in the detainees’ medical files that they were given mefloquine. Hickman has been investigating the circumstances behind the detainees’ deaths for nearly four years.
This is what they are claiming is their smoking gun, a document (Page 18) that listed that all inmates that come in receive a total of 1250 mg of Mefloquine in a 12 hour period. All before they were tested for it. But I did a little digging found this that was published in 1994 giving out the exact dose in the exact same way with positive results. So there is no question about it does work.
Now here is were it gets interesting. Truthout is claiming that the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention stated about Mefloquine.
Mefloquine should only be used when other standard drugs were not available, as it “is associated with a higher rate of severe neuropsychiatric reactions when used at treatment doses.”
Which they give a link that is dead, but the link that I found to the CDC states a very counter message under the info for Mefloquine.
Now we get into the side affects Mefloquine. The info does say that anyone with certain psychiatric conditions should not take this drug. There has been a case studies and it does happen.
But does the risk out way the benefits. Also if this is such a great drug, why do we see Doxycycline being used for overseas troops rather then Mefloquine. It seems that it was stopped being used as of 2005. But a Document made in 2009 still has left it a option if the person cannot take Doxycycline and does not have any contraindications to the drug.
But according to TruthOut we never give Mefloquine to our soldiers.
Another example of how the DoD approached malaria treatment differently for other subjects is in the case of Army Rangers who returned from malarial areas of Afghanistan between June and September 2002 and were infected with the disease at an attack rate of 52.4 cases per 1,000 soldiers.
However, the Rangers did not receive mass presumptive treatment of mefloquine. They were given other standard drugs after laboratory tests, according to documents obtained by Truthout.
But just a thought to throw out here, if a person has lived in a area where for the most part there are no major epidemics like the ones we are seeing in Haiti against someone who lives in the exact opposite I would imagine that the treatment would be different and more aggressive for the person that has not had any previous vaccinations before going to that area. We cannot assume that there is only a generic version of Malaria and it has never changed to suit to the demands of each environment that each person may have come from.
Now what is the end result? Was there a better way of doing this? I cannot say with total assertion that it was but I do not see it as a secret lab to conduct SS like medical experiments on.
Category: Politics, Terror War
Well I took Mefloquine every week while deployed to Afghanistan in 2002 with the 82nd. We were co-located with the Rangers the entire time and didn’t see any Malaria cases as they describe.
I guess they were conducting deadly experiments on me also.
The only real side effects we found were really crazy dreams. I do believe I would prefer the dreams over the effects of Malaria though.
Do you remember how much they gave you in how much time?
Well I went through Benning CRC in August and was given a years worth of Mephloquine as was almost every Soldier, civilian, contractor and AAFES personnel who hadn’t gotten doxy from their doctor prior. I’m not sure if that’s the cause of the dreams or if its my drying out but I haven’t had any side effects nor has anyone else in this unit and a few of us have some pretty interesting prescriptions besides
The Meflaquin really messed me up, and my battle buddy worse. VT Woody went like 3 days without sleeping and was hearing voices. I’m not even saying what my symptom was, but man did I hate the Meflaquin. I stopped taking it eventually which probably wasn’t very bright, but that shit scared me.
Nice work cherry picking the article you idiot. It says “mass presumptive treatment of mefloquine is unprecdented and that’s the main issue. You need some reading comprehension skills. Also, read what the Arny major and doctor Remington Nevin said. I think experts know more than you. Dumb ass
Sporkmaster:Then explain how the TruthOut writer thinks that the amount of Mefloquine given is excessive and the face that service members can and do get this drug before going to a high risk Malaria area. What is the mas dose that you can give a person under any condition?
Secondly besides pointing out the logical fallacy of appeal to authority, who do you think put out the DOD document that put out the entire policy for the entire DOD? It is Lieutenant General Eric B. Schoomaker put this document out as far as it’s use.
I never claimed to be a expect on the mater but this is something that I work with and I read into this before replying to it.
So you’re the BIG expert huh? Well I’ll take the words of these experts over your “opinion.” What an ignorant post.
Sporkmaster: Like I said before, I put time into this before I posted it. For example the story states;
Mefloquine, even at the standard dose, is known to cause adverse side effects such as paranoia, hallucinations, aggression, psychotic behavior, memory impairment, convulsions, suicidal ideation and possibly suicide.
Except that CDC which the article that I replied to linked to a link said that it does not cause these issues by itself, but any one with previous psychiatric conditions.
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reports, and the U.S. military concedes, that malaria is not a threat in Guantánamo. For that reason, U.S. military personnel and contractors are not prescribed any prophylactic anti-malarial medication.
Except that as people have stated here that they have been given in military service. Also when I considering that as of 2009 the DOD says that they still use it as a option for anyone going overseas. The person that signed off on it is a M.D. with a PhD.
I have done my homework on this, how about you?
The special friends on Bagram took Mefloquine when I was there in 2006-7; we all had Doxycycline. I heard lots of people bitch about the dreams for Mef; I can attest to some pretty gnarly ones on the doxy. I figured out pretty quickly to not take it after 1400 if I didn’t want to wake the b-hut up screaming that night.
As one of the Truthout writers, let me make a couple of things clear.
1) I’m sorry about the broken link. I wish you’d reported it directly to us, and we will fix. The link to the CDC document quoted.
2) “Mass presumptive therapy” for malaria is a rare event, meant for times when there is no lab available, and the threat of infection and reinfection is very high. Mefloquine is not recommended then for two reasons. One, it has a high adverse events rate, and you would be harming people who may have nothing wrong with them. Two, injections of antimalarials are preferred because they work faster, and this kind of treatment situation is usually dire, hence the radical step of giving everybody high, treatment doses of the drug, whether they have the disease or are infected or not.
The drug you took, Daniel, was at a prophylactic dose, and I’m glad it worked for you. Mefloquine is an effective antimalarial, but its side effects profile is so huge, it has been relegated to a lesser medication, used now when others can’t be used for some reason. The question is, why, when they knew the drug caused many people neuropsychiatric and other difficulties, they gave it to every prisoner, even when there was no malaria emergency?
The answer is supposition, but an educated guess, for which our article gives copious evidence, is that it was an experiment of some sort, either on mefloquine itself, or as an adjunct to interrogation or breaking people down… not all people, just that percentage that would react badly.
First of all I want to thank you for taking the time to write.
Now as far as the link that you posted one thing that keeps coming to mind is that it your link talks about when not to use Mefloquine but giving advice to travelers that it is a viable option. Both by the same group.
But that is another thing that when Soldiers go over seas that get doxycycline before they go. So I am not surprised at getting medication before preventive treatment. When basic entry soldiers get a large amount of shots regardless of if they have have it or not. When you considering putting that many people in a small area it poses a high risk of disease. All people from different areas of the world that have various illness. So that is why it is not out of the norm to have that method.
With the Mefloquine one of the things that I keep findings is that there is some issues about it causes effects with those have psychiatric conditions will be at risk rather then just anyone at random. So one thing that I am trying to find is the max dose that one is to get and what is the percent of those are affected by the side effects. Also if there might be another causes for these cases in Cuba. More so since the DOD has been using it for our own troops for quite awhile. Which brings up a question about the Ranger that was brought in, is there anyway that you have the raw report on hand?
But the main questions that I have iswhat other options they could have done or what might have worked better. But I do not see a reason to see that such drugs were used for interrogations.
I wonder if the thinking was that if we give them something that has psychotropic properites and then something happens to them (i.e. commiting suicide) we can blame it on the drug’s side effects and not on the conditions at Gitmo if it ever comes to trial.
Lariam
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/play_full.php?play=399&act=3