Three arrested in Norwegian terror plot
The Washington Post writes that three members of al Qaeda were arrested this morning in Europe for plotting a bombing attack in Norway.
Kristiansen said one of the men was a 39-year-old Norwegian of Uighur origin, who had lived in Norway since 1999. The other suspects included a 37-year-old Iraqi and a 31-year-old citizen of Uzbekistan, both of whom have permanent residency permits in Norway.
Officials believe they were planning attacks with portable but powerful bombs like the ones at the heart of last year’s thwarted suicide attack in the New York City subway.
So how’s all that dhimmi BS that Norway has been playing with “asians” working out? Apparently terror is going to be a political tool of muslims no matter how much countries cave into them.
Officials said it was not clear the men had selected a target for the attacks but they were attempting to make peroxide bombs, the powerful homemade explosives that prosecutors say were attempted in both New York and England.
It’s like stomping on an anthill, you might kill most of them but a few will always get through. The West is running out of luck.
Category: Terror War
You’re right, Jonn, we are running out of luck. it is only a matter of when, not if, another big attack happens, or several smaller coordinated ones.
What was that about appeasement being like feeding an alligator and hoping he eats you last?
Yeah, we’re running out of luck, doh! Since Sept. 11th, typical of generals, we’ve geared up to fight the last war. We were never fighting a normal enemy, we were fighting an idea, and ideas jump from one host to another at the speed of sound. By our indiscriminate killing we have caused that meme to proliferate and mutate. Cut off the head, you say? There is no head, it’s like a slime mold or a starfish that replicates when you cut it into peices. You know how, since Sept. 11th, 2001 we have alienated about 90% of the world’s population with our behavior? Well, we’ve ensured the continued propagation of that meme with that same behavior. Got any new superweapons that will cleanse that meme from a few hundred million (? a few billion?) brains? Or should we just kill them all? If we had been responsible world citizens nine years ago the meme would have petered out and died a natural death, but we provided an environment in which it can persist, propogate and flourish.
Yeah, we’re running out of luck all right when all it takes is a little ammonium nitrate and fertilizer or a few propane cannisters to be an army of one.
I see Joe managed to build another keyboard out of matchsticks and baling wire over at “the home”…
#3 Joe:
I know that all the people who post here have seen this argument before. What I have yet to see is the “alternate answer” to the attack of 9/11. I keep hearing that we have alienated the Muslim world. Okay, I’d agree with that. But what is your alternate proposal? How would you have responded to the attack on our nation? What would be YOUR suggestion on how to deal with the terrorists that threaten us?
What Joe can’t (or doesn’t want to admit to) answer is the fact that we had the ability (and given what we knew of the Taliban and Afghanistan at the time) and the justification to turn a large swatch of the ME into a glass parking lot, yet we didn’t. The fact that we didn’t despite all that had transpired speaks more to our humanity and restraint than all of his talking points can claim otherwise.
Oh, and Joe–tell me, which has created greater harm in our standing in the world? A “cowboy” president who holds enemies to account for their actions against us, or someone who pisses on our friends and bows to our enemies?
It’s common to hear people remark that Muslim fanatics don’t hate us because of our freedom, but because of our foreign policy. That’s one of their great laugh lines.
Which begs the question–which part of Norwegian foreign policy did the terrorists in question object to? Was it the vast network of Norwegian military bases throughout the Middle East? Was it there support for dictatorial regimes? Perhaps it was because they’ve invaded other countries in search of oil?
PintoNag,
To answer your question, I would have focused on getting rid of Al Queda in Afghanistan, not shifted funds and focus to Iraq. Think of what we could have acomplished in Afghanistan if we had used the all the $$ and manpower we had there instead of watering it down, taking our eye off the ball for what, 5 years? With the manpower we could have properly finished the job with Al Queda while they were on their back foot (in Afghanistan at least – Pakistan is another issue), and with the $$ we could have really rebuilt the roads, schools, hospitals, gov’t buildings, etc. to a much greater extent than the half-finished projects we have now. Is anyone really surprised that Afghanistan has been backsliding since we got involved in Iraq and put 90% of our resources there? If the primary narrative coming out of Afghanistan and the middle east had been one of rebuilding, educating, curing, being generous, things would be different. Instead the primary narritive has been mass, indiscriminate killing in both Afghanistan and Iraq. People sympathetic to us have changed their view after years of carnage. Having a mendacious, bumbling, ignorant, tongue-tied president didn’t help either. He was a laughing stock.
Individual acts of courage and kindness aside, the world saw our brutal, callous side. Instead of leading by example, we have used force and coercion. Now that we’re viewed as morally bankrupt, force and coercion are all we have left.
We had 95% of the world sypathetic to us on Sept. 12th, 2001, now the majority of them hate us. Do you think we’ve done a good job? Don’t you think we could have done better?
We can bomb and drone thousands of more people, and the meme will only spread and mutate. And in five years you guys will be wondering why we have 10 times as many terrorists as we did in 2010.
Thanks Joe.
By the way, you’re an idiot. Speaking of properly taking care of al-Qaeda in Afghanistan, there are probably under a hundred there now. That doesn’t mean that they’ve been entirely eliminated. Many of them have simply moved over the border into Pakistan. But your cvontention that we could have rightly eliminated their presence in Afghanistan if we hadn’t gone into Iraq doesn’t hold water.
“If the primary narrative coming out of Afghanistan and the middle east had been one of rebuilding, educating, curing, being generous, things would be different. Instead the primary narritive has been mass, indiscriminate killing in both Afghanistan and Iraq.”
That’s funny, the Paulbots actually argue the opposite. All we’re doing over there is nation-building (and that’s supposed to be a bad thing). And here you are arguing that if we would just do more nation-building, we’d be better off.
I can’t figure out whether (a) nation-building is actually taking place, and (b) whether that’s a good or bad thing. All I know is that no matter what happens, immediate surrender is always the solution.
Also, there hasn’t been “indiscriminate killing”. That’s a baseless smear, an attack on our troops, who are actually quite restrained by the current ROE. Far from killing “indiscriminately”, they often have to sacrifice their own safety when civilians might be put at risk. We have the best air power in the world, plus artillery, but our soldiers can’t call for fire support if the bad guys place themselves in close proximity to innocents. Knowing this, they make a habit of doing exactly that.
So basically, you don’t know a damned thing.
Also, Joe, you didn’t answer PintoNag’s question.
4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
5.51: O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
Bottom line, with the money we spent (wasted?) in Iraq (total estimated cost – $3 trillion) we could have done a hell of a lot better job in Afghanistan, period.
#6 NHSparky and #7 Ben:
Valid points in both posts. That is what I was trying to elicit from Joe — a lucid, alternate point of view. I enjoy discussion, and welcome opposite and alternate viewpoints. Joe clearly disagrees with our current stance and actions concerning our response to the 9/11 attacks. Well and good. I want to see two things from him here: What he thinks we should have done in reference to 9/11, and the connection between that and the arrest of terrorists in Norway.
dutch (#12), I guess that is in answer to Ben #&?
Meant Ben #7.
Joe said, “Having a mendacious, bumbling, ignorant, tongue-tied president didn’t help either. He was a laughing stock.”
You mean like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jt5dY3vVoZ0&feature=related
or this one–it’s even better when a lib crackhead like Letterman piles on:
Oh, and Joe–the talking point that Iraq cost $3 Trillion? Try again. The ENTIRE DoD budget from FY 2001-2008 (including supplemental spending bills) wasn’t that much.
ACCOUNTING FAIL.
PintoNag,
I think I did say what I WOULD have done, and not done (invade Iraq), in the aftermath of Sept. 11th. As to the planned attack in Norway, that is the result of the widespread proliferation of the meme, “It’s good to kill westerners”. A few thousand people’s brains had been infected by that meme in 2001. Now thanks to nine years of very bad PR for the U.S., the meme has spread to what, a few million people? A few hundred million? Now terrorists are crawling out of the woodwork, not because they are under any kind of centralized control structure, but because they have been infected by that meme. They have grudges, real or imagined, and they look for targets of opportunity, i.e., Norway. Let’s face it, some of these guys are not geniuses, but more like members of the gang that couldn’t shoot straight. They don’t need a well crafted political philosophy or geopolitical plan. It’s just that their brain’s have been infected by this meme that has proliferated thanks to real bad PR by the U.S. Basically we have created millions of free lancers unified by that one meme. It’ll take a long time to undo nine years worth of damage.
No accounting fail NHS. That’s the projected cost of the war and all it’s fallout and blowback. After all, you of all people do expect us to still be paying for the care of 90 year old vets wounded in Iraq back when they were 20, don’t you?
from Joe: As to the planned attack in Norway, that is the result of the widespread proliferation of the meme, “It’s good to kill westerners”.
Kind of like found in the Koran, Joe?
4.89 : They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper
dutch508,
The validity of Islam, or any religion for that matter, is another whole can of worms. Islam has some dangerous tenets, as does Christianity. Here’s a good rationally based article on the dangers of Islam in particular, a bad meme, or meme complex if you like. If it were up to me we’d all abandon our irrational beliefs in magic and the supernatural and become empiricists/rationalists (the two dovetail). They are going thru their “Enlightment”, and I hope they don’t take the worlddown while they sort it all out.
What do you suggest – that we kill all Muslims?
Oops! Here’s the link:
http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2009/05/terrifying-brilliance-of-islam.html
Joe–methinks you’re a bit misguided when it comes to the tenets of Islam. They regard the Talmud and Bible as inferior works. In their minds, they fixed all of the mistakes found in those two books when the Koran was written. They, in their minds, need no “enlightenment”, since they already view themselves as enlightened beyond that of Jews or Christians.
#8 Joe:
Starting in Afghinstan instead of Iraq: I’m no expert, but I believe geography may have been one of the deciding factors. (The Joint Chiefs neglected to call me for my advice.) We had to get into the general area with a large force, and I think the mountainous terrain of both Pakistan and Afghanistan would have made that difficult.
Rebuilding in the areas damaged by the fighting: We do this, to the best of our ability, but it has to be done through the existing social and economic structures of the country in question. If we aren’t careful, they reject what we try to do, because it’s not according to their tribal/societal structure.
Mass, indiscriminate killing: I’m not sure what you had in mind when you wrote this, but our military is not allowed to kill en mass or indiscriminately anymore. I say “anymore” because such tactics as carpet bombing were used (WW II timeframe) until more accurate methods were devised. As far as I’ve been able to determine, our military has always punished indiscriminate killing. If soldiers break the ROE, they risk being brought up on criminal charges.
95% world sympathetic to us on 9/11: More like half, I would think. Europe was sympathetic, but I also remember film footage of Muslim men dancing and jeering in their streets concerning the 9/11 attacks. The reasons for those reactions haven’t changed in either part of the world, so I doubt the balance of support has tipped much in either direction since. I will agree that the people directly affected by our military actions are probably not very amused with that action. That is understandable, of course.
Arrest of terrorists in Norway: You are right that we are fighting an idea. They have chosen to support the ideas espoused by radical Islam. Their actions are a direct result of that choice.
Christ said love your neighbor as yourself. Islam said kill your neighbor if he doesn’t agree with your beliefs.
You figure out who has the mem problem.
Well, I agree with Sam Harris – all religions are weird, but some are weirder than others. If Christianity is weird, than Mormonism is even weirder in that it adds another layer of superstitious mumbo-jumbo on top of an already irrational philosophy. If you believe memes, and religions, compete for space in the human mind, then Islam is especially insidious because of specific tenets that increase the likelihood that it will propogate (see this article: http://www.citizenwarrior.com/2009/05/terrifying-brilliance-of-islam.html). Since it was the last major religion to arise, it probably benefited from the groundwork laid by the other religions. Both Islam and Christianity have toxic sections supporting killing heretics, etc., although Islam is probably more militant in this respect. Me, I prefer empiricism mixed in with a dollop of rationalism.
Me, I prefer empiricism mixed in with a dollop of rationalism.
Let me know how that works out when you try it….
Joe, can you show me in Christ’s teachings where he orders his followers to kill any unbelievers?
dutch508,
I’m not gonna wade through all that stuff – I just know the bible is full of carnage, and as Richard Dawkins puts it, “The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty, ethnic genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully”.
Uh, Joe? RIF, dude. Dutch said, “Christ’s teachings.”
It’s all part of the same fable….
Uhm…Joe? You are a DUmbass.
Thanks dutch. Anytime a religionist calls me a dumbass, I know I must be doing something right…..
Well…you are a pretty good DUmbass.
#30 Joe:
I was raised a Christian, but I was also raised to pay attention and not stick my head in the sand if I didn’t like what I heard; instead, the idea was to research it fearlessly and try to determine the truth if possible.
In a book on Tao, it said that if we accept a diety that is Lord, we consign ourselves to always be servants; if we accept a diety that is Father or Mother, we consign ourselves to always be children. The idea was that we had to grow to spiritual adulthood, and could not do this as long as we remained servants or children.
Suffice it to say, I’ve been given food for thought.
While this is not an example of Christ specifically instructing his followers to kill non-believers, it is an example of Christ’s explicit support for and furtherance of the Old Testament laws. There are other, deeper examples, throughout the New Testament. And never forget, while Christ may have never directly asked for the death of non-believers, the widely accepted final message is still one of eternal damnation for those who don’t believe or refuse to worship ‘Him’.
The Fulfillment of the Law, Matthew 5:17-20
17″Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.