How long does it take to ramp up?

| January 31, 2024

I have long been a proponent of the argument that you can argue technology, quality of weapons, morale etc. till the cows come home. The things that win wars are production and logistics. Production, because it is the nature of war to break stuff (and people.) Logistics because all that material has to get to the battlefield in a timely manner, neither too early nor far worse, too late. The Civil War was won not because the North’s cause was holy, it was won because the North out-spent the South and bought more guns, powder, shot, and food than the South possibly could. Result? Even with Lee in command, the South got licked. Then there is Germany, who in WWII arguable had at worst state of the art weaponry (the Mauser M98K is still one of the great battle rifles) the StG-44, flying rocket bombs, the best tanks – all kinds of high-tech goodies – and sheer numbers of Russians with Moisins and GIs with M1s rolled up in deuce and a halfs, Shermans, and T-34s and kicked some serious butt.  Germany never got fully mechanized, and did not have the supplies and supply lines to deliver fuel and ammo.

But how long does a country take to ramp up production of those kinds of numbers? WWII took us into 1943 before we were really cranking ’em out. Most countries’ economies are not built on the profligate waste of a wartime economy.  We, and most of our allied countries, are providing Ukraine resupply of armaments.

Ukraine struggles to hold lines amid ammo shortages  CNN

Ukrainian forces are suffering from a shortage of artillery shells on the front line, prompting some units to cancel planned assaults, soldiers said, and stoking fears over how long Kyiv’s troops will be able to hold their ground against continuing Russian attacks.  Washington Post

We’ve read how North Korea is supplying Russia with 155mm arty shells. (however unreliable they may be – modified per thebesig.) Meanwhile,

Days later, Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban blocked $55 billion in European Union assistance to Ukraine. Washington Post

Ukraine notes that when they shoot down Russian drones and missiles, they are finding Western tech which obviously is slipping past the sanctions we have emplaced.

the presence of Western computer components in the drones is physical evidence that Russia has bypassed sanctions in its efforts to create weapons and kill Ukrainians.

“The most valuable thing these drones can reveal is whether their design is being changed [to decrease the effectiveness of Ukrainian defences]. But the main benefit is the ability to take the surviving remains [of the UAVs] and once again show our partners whose components Iran and Russia are using in their weapons destined to kill Ukrainians, in order to strengthen the oversight of sanctions.”  Ukrayinska Pravda

Back to the Post:

Artem said his unit was now firing just 10 to 20 shells per day at enemy targets, while previously it used an average of 50 shells, and sometimes up to 90. He spoke on the condition that he be identified only by first name in keeping with Ukrainian military rules.

Ukrainian soldiers stationed at the front said they have not detected any sign that Russia is facing a similar shortage of artillery shells.  Washington Post

You would think a good indicator might be battle tanks – they are complex, pricey, and material intensive.  Russia has lost 365 since October as of Monday… but has production ramped to build 100/month, so even faster than they are losing them.   Business Insider

How long would it take us to ramp up to 100 M1s a month? (Per thebesig, they are refurbing damaged tanks, not building new ones and Brit Intelligence is mistaken. Again – if an M1 was damaged enough to take it out of action could we refurb 100/month? I doubt it. )Something to think about, as we throw expensive missiles at cheap Houthi drones.

Category: 2024 Election, Big Pentagon, None, Russia, Ukraine

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Claw

GS Patton: “I’m not quite sure just what those logistics are, but I do know that I need a lot of them.”

KoB

Short answer? Longer than it would take for a real war to be over.

We cannot replicate what we did during WWII, logistics wise. Not only do we not have the manufacturing infrastructure in place, (moth balled plants don’t count) we don’t have a trained enough work force to build the replacement planes, tanks, and ships that we’d lose in the FIRST (snicker) week.

Roh-Dog

The next one will be over at ‘186,000 miles/second’.

But hey, if we’re gonna pretend, it don’t matter a lick until we Make Coal Great Again.

Until that time, a poster from an era where farms did exist:

farm-junk
Roh-Dog

’85 and on. Sorry if smol.

50_Years_Of_Global_Steel_Produccion
KoB

In 1942 the American steel plants did not have enough scrap on hand to keep the steel mills running. Nebraska led the way by starting a massive state wide, that turned into a nation wide, scrap drive. This is just one (1) article on that effort. And just like them Cornfederates, they melted down the church bells to make cannons.

https://nebraskaprairiemuseum.com/2020/04/13/wwii-scrap-metal-drive/

Prior Service

Our industrial base is totally incapable of producing our complex weaponry quickly. It’s not like WWII where a tractor plant makes a tank now. I happen to have participated in a study on doubling the size of the army while at one of the army’s institutions of higher learning. Just one of many depressing data points: It would take industry two years just to build the special aluminum necessary to double our Bradley/AMPV fleet. Whether it’s ammunition, complex equipment, mobilization of manpower, the challenges in ramping up the army are yuuuuuge.

Anonymous

Too damn long…

ANCRN

During WWII the US started ramping up military production in 1940, due to the war in Europe, and an aggressive Japan. It was a slow build up, but a headscarf. We’d have to cold start a war economy today. It’d take much longer. How long would it take us to replace one of our carriers? At least 5 years I would guess.

Anonymous

Which we should be using Ukraine as an excuse to do but, not, we’re just running down our stockpiles instead.

Anna Puma

The US would not have even hit its stride in 1943 if the US government before Pearl Harbor had not already started the re-arming process.

For example the two ocean navy objective. That resulted in the design of the Essex carriers. In fact a whole slew of new ship classes were planned and laid down before the first Japanese bomb dropped on Oahu. Both USS Atlanta and USS Fletcher were commissioned before 1942 started.

Prior Service

Facts. And the army did things like order more Garand rifles than they needed just to force industry to start ramping up.