Doing it right and yet failing
Today, in the latest update on Matthew Perry’s death… we have a war in Gaza and what are the bulk of the headlines? Anyway, there was a fella in Maine who caused a ruckus last week.
One thing worth noting – he was unlike the shooter in Texas who was determined to have committed prior disqualifying crimes while in the Air Force which weren’t reported to NCIC. Robert Card had numerous red flag events, was reported to the cops at least twice, yet still committed multiple murders.
Five months before the deadliest mass shooting in Maine’s history, the gunman’s family alerted the sheriff that they were becoming “concerned” about his deteriorating mental health while he had access to firearms, authorities said Monday.
Card underwent a mental health evaluation last summer after he began acting erratically at an Army training facility in New York, officials said. A bulletin sent to police shortly after last week’s attack said Card had been committed to a mental health facility for two weeks after “hearing voices and threats to shoot up” a military base.
So he was reported twice, by his family and by the Army. We’re assured by all those “red flag” law authors that this should have stopped him.
Actually, the one thing that helped reduce the potential casualties – he was turned away from buying a suppressor. Had he had one, the audio signature would have been lessened considerably, and potentially he could have killed far more. What stopped him – the feds and their interminable paperwork delays? Nope, an alert store owner doing his job right.
Rick LaChapelle, owner of Coastal Defense Firearms, said Card purchased a suppressor, also called a silencer, online and arranged to pick it up at his shop.
Card already had submitted information to the federal government to purchase it, and federal authorities had approved the sale to that point, he said.
When Card filled out the form at LaChapelle’s gun shop to pick up the silencer Aug. 5, he answered “yes” to the question: “Have you ever been adjudicated as a mental defective OR have you ever been committed to a mental institution?”
“As soon as he answered that ‘yes’ we know automatically that this is disqualifying, he’s not getting a silencer today,” LaChapelle said.
So the Feds blessed him… but only an alert gun shop owner actually did anything.
This seems to show a flawed system – Maine properly does not take someone’s guns away based on mere supposition, but someone sneaked through. Me, I’m a big 2A guy – but I would be the first to say there are some people who just should NOT have access to guns. How do you define that? That’s a lot stickier.
Oh, and a side note – when I say his audio signature would have been louder – turns out he was using the new Ruger SFAR, an AR-15 sized rifle chambered in .308/7.62×51. Be willing to bet it is a lot louder than the usual AR-15, plus that is a really new rifle on the market (still somewhat rare, as a matter of fact) so it was purchased quite recently. Probably explains the high ratio of deaths to injuries, usually you hear of several dead vs. many many injured, not a 2:1 ratio the other way.
Suppressors are able to be shipped directly to your door in most states, once the ATF Form 4 is approved. I’m guessing the gun store had an internal form. We have one for black powder firearms that mirrors the questions on the 4473. Despite black powder guns being legal for felons and other prohibited persons to own, company policy is that the sale is shut down if someone answers wrongly. For the 4473 itself, we use an electronic system. Answering the questions wrong results in an automatic Prohibit. Until earlier this year, the Responsible Parties could decide to permit a customer to complete another 4473; now it’s still technically allowed but the company has made it clear that any mistake can result in the store’s FFL being revoked, so customers are just sent away.
The SFAR has been out around a year now and is on my list of “to buy” guns. We started getting them around December, initially only getting one in at a time, but now usually have 1-2 of both the 16″ and 20″ versions. My AR-556 MPR is nice, and while Ruger’s ARs are considered “entry-level”, I like the features and have heard nothing bad about reliability or accuracy. The Black Rain Ordnance and CMMG AR-10s we sell go for about $800 more.
As for denying access to firearms for certain people, I wholeheartedly agree. Anyone acting as a Transferor has the power to decline a gun sale. I tell the guys on the gun line this all the time. We generally transfer every Proceed, but the system is fairly thorough. If any part of a name or address matches a previously Prohibited or Voided form, I get called out to review a possible straw match. 95% of the time it’s just a similar name or a computer error, just as 95% of self-Prohibits are user error (but you still aren’t walking out with a gun.
With that said, no gun store employee is going to know your history. If you’re obviously under the influence, expressing anger issues, or seem to be mentally unstable, then a no-sale will probably occur. If you seem “normal” (whatever that is these days), complete the 4473 accurately, and NICS provides a “Proceed”, you pay for the firearm, I come out for one final company-mandated (but not federally required) final check, and you walk out new gun in hand.
No one wants to sell a gun that gets used in a crime. I think that the checks and balances at the retail level are decent, but nowhere near foolproof. My company, for example, does not honor the Brady 3-day transfer period. If you receive a Delay, you don’t get the gun until a Proceed is received. After 30 days you can get a refund or complete the paperwork again. We have had a number of Delays come back as Denies 2-3 weeks after the form was completed, so there’s that. On the other hand, a dedicated gun store might honor Brady, but will most likely have much more knowledgeable and alert employees who are more willing to shut down a sale at the first sign something is “off”.
Which states do you live in? On all the forums I still see everyone talking about conjugal visits with their suppressor. I live in SC, a fairly conservative state, and waited 13 months for mine until I could finally pick it up from the store I ordered it through with Silencer Shop. Would love to skip the trip to the other side of the city to pick up my silencers.
I live in Louisiana. There is a definite wait for the paperwork to be processed and approved, but once that’s done it can be shipped to your door: Direct Shipping – Silencer Central.
I have a suppressor on my 16″ AR-10. It drops the noise level somewhat but nowhere in the hearing safe range. It’s about in the 9mm noise range, maybe. I haven’t tried shooting subsonics through it, without the Sonic boom it will probably be a bit quieter but there’s a lot of powder in a 308 case. Most of the rounds I shoot are about 2 and 1/2 times of speed of sound, and therefore produce a lot of noise.
Yup
If the answer to ANY question is we need more government regulation/intervention/action then you’re DOING IT WRONG.
Roger that. I always default to NO when that question comes up. But then I believe in the saying that that government that governs least, governs best. All governments are inherently evil.
The Second Amendment is cut and dry. Americans’ gun rights are constitutionally protected, yet we’ve had increasing legislation pulling back some of those rights. When it’s not Congress or a local government, it’s a “Final Decision” by the ATF. How that works I have no idea. So, I agree that governmental control should not be increased. What’s on the books is on the books, though, so use the existing system and fix what’s broken to keep otherwise legal firearms out of the hands of those who shouldn’t have them. “Otherwise legal” in this context means over-the-counter sales requiring a background check. Guns will be stolen, straw purchases will be made (remember, kids, it’s no longer 10 years, now it’s 15 years in FPMITAP for a straw purchase), and criminals are going to criminal. If I got discharged for misconduct and the military didn’t properly report my misdeeds, or if I’ve been involuntarily committed, ideally NICS should catch that. Report on what’s known and proven; don’t let entities like the VA simply deem a Vet a threat because they asked for financial consultation.
FFLs have some role but can’t be expected to be mind-readers. Red Flag laws are BS, but family and friends shouldn’t hesitate to report potential threats to authorities. An ex-husband harassing you? If you’re truly worried, there are statutes that might offer a work around: § 18.2-427. Use of profane, threatening, or indecent language over public airways or by other methods (virginia.gov). Trust me, Virginia is notorious for locking people up for Class 1 misdemeanors (ask me how I know), and if someone is deemed a threat, they’ll likely be in jail until their court date–often pushed back to 3+ months (I was “lucky”, with no pre-trial incarceration for my ignorance). Twelve months in jail isn’t a whole lot, and the system itself is kind of BS, but it beats an angry ex deciding to act out violence instead of just mouthing it.
Red flag laws have uniformly failed in every state having them. The only thing that resulted from these laws is that in every state having them, someone got swatted and an innocent person was murdered by law enforcement who could not be troubled to actually investigate a little before acting like they thought they were the 75th Rangers or something.
While your argument has some merit, it can’t be proven. There’s no way of telling of what would have happened with a bomb that didn’t go off.
NY has one of the stricter Red Flag laws, and it didn’t do fuck-all to stop Peyton Gendron, even though there were enough flags in his case to supply a CCP May Day parade.
Every one of those incidents happened to someone who after they were murdered by law enforcement was shown to be perfectly stable, with no criminal record. Adding to that the fact that in each case the cops did a no knock warrant in the middle of the night, thus prompting an adverse response from a citizen who thought they were being broken into, and you have what you have. Some were investigated after the fact and this was determined in each of those cases to be someone abusing the process to get someone they hated.
Everyone guilty of a swatting where the victim is killed by law enforcement should be prosecuted for felony murder.
On the SFAR, it is waaaay louder than most firearms. That brake sends the sound out to your left and right, so it is not bad for the shooter, but if you are to the left or right you are gonna get your bell rung by the muzzle blast.
Is this the 16″ or the 20″? I can imagine the muzzle blast on the shorter SFAR is pretty substantial. It’s like my M1891 or 91/30 compared to one of the M44s. Or my much-missed 4″ S&W Model 19 compared to the 2+ Taurus 605. In both cases, the latter shorter barreled guns are veritable flashbangs.
Yup. My polymer 605 (.357) is one serious barking sumbitch!
I’m more curious why the story has completely vanished from the MSM.
They are trying to hide his psych and meds history.
The Warroom had a spokesperson for ablechild.org on who is digging into the medical history.
Big Pharma strikes again with a little help from their friends!
To find one of these assholes that wasn’t on some kind of drugs, either prescribed or self-prescribed, is a pretty rare thing. Once you throw the alcohol drug in there it’s almost zero.
This situation just gives the gunz grabbers to call for “stronger” Red Flag and “Common Sense” Gun Control Laws.
Again, this is just one more example of why I carry concealed every.where.I.go. Best way to stop a bad guy or nut job with a gun is to be a prepared good guy…with a gun.
David,
As a Mainer and military retiree, I appreciate your thoughtful and reasoned analysis of this mass killing incident.
To put the immensity of this mass shooting in perspective, last year there were only 29 murders in the entire state of Maine with 15 of those involving Domestic Violence.
FWIW Maine’s governor, Janet Mills, will form a commission to investigate the circumstances leading up to this mass shooting.
Pardon me if I don’t hold my breath waiting for anything useful to come from that.
The next time the authorities admit even partial responsibility for someone like him slipping through the cracks will be the first time.
Name a mass killer in the last 10 years. At some point, they had some interactions with law enforcement, the legal system, or mental health professionals (or some combination thereof) which SHOULD have blocked purchase of and/or access to firearms.
Once again, especially for the benefit of Shannon Watts, David Hogg, et al:
IT AIN’T THE FUCKING GUN.
And almost every single one of them was a socialist democrat, leftist, loser and in many cases, card carrying member of the Biden fan club.
So, what were the political leanings of the shooter?
Since the MSM isn’t crying ultra-MAGA, is it safe to assume he was a card-carrying member of the Democrat party?
Well, no. He apparently wasn’t registered to vote but he was apparently engaged online in politics. He would have fit right in here. Apparently according to ABC News, this ain’t hell, is a conspiracy website.
https://abcnews.go.com/US/maine-mass-shooting-suspect/story?id=104342351
I notice that the repeated claim by the media that he was a “firearms instructor” is rather questionable. The Army states that he was never trained as one, and did not perform any duty as one.
There is no reason an NCO of fuel delivery systems would be trained to be a firearms instructor. That is like saying the Army sent a cook to Sniper School. The fact he never deployed says it all. But he was likely useful in the motor pool.
From everything I have read over the past twenty years, the mental health systems in many states are as about as functional and reliable as the Chairforce was with reporting that Texas wife beater shooter to the NCIC system. There have been numerous looney shooter cases where the states’ mental health systems have failed to report people who have been involuntarily put in the psyche wards. The law is clear that such people are disqualified from purchasing firearms from an FFL dealer. Not that such action would keep someone determined from acquiring a firearm and ammo from other than an FFL licensee. If the authorities won’t take action in states with these yellow and red flag laws, then what is the point of them? When the looney lies and answers no to that question on the 4473, the system has to be able to flag them and the DOJ has to prosecute them, which it currently practically never does.