Thursday FGS

| April 20, 2023


KelTec RFB Bullpup

‘It’s getting very ridiculous’: Another Jacksonville officer shot in 2023
He was shot in the face and is the third local officer wounded this year

Scott Butler
The numbers are grim. They are startling, and they are scary.

Tuesday night saw the third police officer shot in Jacksonville this year. All have survived, which can’t be said for the three gunmen who were subsequently killed — one self-inflicted according to the Sheriff’s Office. Two began with an attempted stop of a vehicle.

“It’s getting very ridiculous. It’s very dangerous. It’s concerning,” Sheriff T.K. Waters said of his officers being shot and at close range. He said he’s never seen anything like it in his nearly 32 years on the job here.

One officer was shot last year, and that was in his body armor during an October burglary call on Hatchling Court on the Westside. The 37-year-old suspect, Charlie Brown, died jumping from the Dames Point bridge into the river trying to escape following a chase, the Sheriff’s Office said at the time.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Tuesday’s situation began about 9:30 p.m. with an off-duty officer working at Baptist Medical Center South on Old St. Augustine Road noticing a suspicious vehicle circling the parking lot. The officer attempted to stop the car using his patrol vehicle. The driver decided to flee, but a supervisor listening in advised him not to chase him due to safety concerns in the parking lot, Waters said.

Other officers responded as the hospital was put on lockdown, and one was outside his vehicle when he spotted a car of the same description in the parking lot. Waters said he raised a hand and told him to stop the car several times.

“The subject inside the car rolled the window down slightly, held out a gun or what looked like a gun, and said, ‘Shoot me,'” the sheriff said.

The officer didn’t shoot, and then the driver pulled up next to another police car and fired one shot into the vehicle.

1 / 0 / 0
Florida Times Union

Two Cold War tours there, and it was bad then.

Police: Suspect reached for gun prior to police shooting; Huber Heights officer placed on paid leave

BUTLER TWP. — Butler Twp. Police Chief John Porter and Huber Heights Police Chief Mark Lightner have provided more information into the shooting that hospitalized a suspect late last week.

Police were called out to the Days Inn on Miller Lane on the evening April 13 on reports of shots being fired. Around that time, a woman called and said the Taevion Booker had shot at her. It was reported Booker, 23, then left the Days Inn and headed toward Arbys on Miller Lane.

Porter said at the time of the call, several other officers were on priority calls and weren’t able to respond, so a call for mutual aid. That was when two Huber Heights officers responded to Miller Lane.

A Huber Heights officer, identified as K9 Officer Shawn Waler, located Booker walking on Miller Lane, near O’Charley’s, and activated his emergency lights and approached Booker.

Waler ordered Booker to stop twice, put his hands up and face away from the officer. At this time, a Butler Twp. officer arrived on scene. As the officer walks toward Booker and Waler, the Huber Heights officer fires three shots at Booker.

Lightner showed body and cruiser camera video from the incident. In it, he pointed out, what he described as, Booker lowering his hands to pull up his pants and pull out a gun. Video showed Waler yell at Booker to drop the gun before firing three shots.

A gun was seen falling from Booker’s right hand to the ground in the video.

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WHIO

The video update ruined the implications the editors raised. So sad. Thanks for the links again, Gun Bunny. Been getting gun pR0n recommendations from some usual suspects, too.

“It will be of little avail to the people that the laws are made by men of their own choice if the laws be so voluminous that they cannot be read, or so incoherent that they cannot be understood.”
– Publius

Category: Feel Good Stories, Guest Link

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11B-Mailclerk

Problem with that bullpup – clearing multiple live rounds. It pushes fired cases out a tube, forward. So if you clear a stoppage, there is now a live round in that tube. Do it again, and the next round is pushing with the bullet tip on the previous round primer. Assume friction from crud (stoppage, right?)

Not a great idea.

You can tilt the rifle to let rounds fall out, but if one was stuck, or you don’t tip it….

Thus why one avoids pointy projectiles in a tube magazine levergun.

Roh-Dog

whattothefuckwho?

Do you have sharktornado insurance?

Veritas Omnia Vincit

This is right…watching the guy on youtube take brass shrapnel in his chest from letting the loading spring go from a full open position slapping down on just a few rounds in his rifle should be an eye opener for everyone when it comes to tube magazines…I think he put in a couple of rounds and released the spring letting it slap down on the rounds, the resulting detonation blew up at least two of the cartridges…I know that was a historical weapon (Henry I think), but your point is well taken…tube magazines require some particular handling and one is well advised to understand the full ramifications of failing to abide by those particular handling requirements…

Old tanker

He made a follow up video of the incident and explained how it happened. He said he had 5 rounds in the magazine band the top 2 detonated.

Steve1371

Every and all reloading manuals I have ever seen make this very point. Do not load pointed bullets in tube magazines. Hornady gummy tip bullets being the only exception I am aware of.

Roh-Dog

Not advocating the use of pointed projectiles in a tube magazine, but the acceleration of rounds by spring is different from a controlled loading by gate.

Again. not advocating the use of pointed projectiles in a tube magazine especially if the operator is dumb enough to ‘drop a hammer’ on (presumably soft and/or ‘high’ primeréd) rounds stacked on top of each other.

Here is a rebuttal to recoil and inertial detonation.

(not the best ‘scienceing’ but as you see the result, the floating firing pin on AR-style weapons causes much more deformation on the primer)

Not advocating the use of pointed projectiles in a tube magazine.

11B-Mailclerk

As long as that bullpup “ejection” tube is clear of crud, the rounds fall out. If badly fouled, they stick.

Ever help someone clear a major WTF stoppage on that particular weapon?

Roh-Dog

Yeah, if it’s ‘the 5th round hang up’ or a full chute induced jam, the front of the exhaust tube could be misaligned.

edit: forgot to mention, we were shooting some nastier rounds (paki? South Africa? Serb? 7.62 and fouling of the ejection chute wasn’t a problem)

I love Kel-Tec but sometimes even I have to wtf design choices. Don’t own some models for specific reasons.

The PF9 I’ve got in my pocket right now has been great but I never did the plastic for metal mag catch replacement so it may be a matter of time before she’s benched ’til upgrade.

Last edited 1 year ago by Roh-Dog
Steve1371

All you proved is why 556, 223 use harder primer cups.

Roh-Dog

There was no attempt to prove, or disprove, anything. The inference is that it could be done, should’in is a different kettle of fish.

Not advocating the use of pointed projectiles in a tube magazine.”

The referenced test isn’t the best analogy in many respects, just the one I know and have attempted in my wayward youth. Gate guard, hollow tubes and momentum destroyed some government-owned ammo to allay some boredom, once or twice, allegedly.

Since NAT0 spec ammo was the only thing used, and knowing those specs call for damn hard primers, use of match/civi/thin primers in a mag tube, or the RFB*, should be treated as a no-no.

*the manual says specifically to use only 7.62:

The Kel-Tec RFB is designed and chambered for the 7.62×51 NATO Cartridge ONLY. The Caliber is listed on the left side of the rifle above the magazine well. Do not use any other ammunition. (pg. 12)

Roh-Dog

Found the vid, dropped yesterday so I hadn’t seen it. Timestamped to start at 3:09, beginning is Ian being himself and an ad read for Refuge Medical (who has good kit, imho):

https://youtu.be/YDuoj7KR-CA?t=189

edit: His description was that the rounds were flat-nosed and flush primers.

Guns are tools, tools bite.

Last edited 1 year ago by Roh-Dog
jeff LPH 3 63-66

Had a 30-30 Mod 94 lever years ago with no problems and I still have two .22 breakaway gallery pump guns which are still bagged since I moved down here back in 2007 and wonder if their still in good shape.

KoB

Jax… *sigh* Used to have to go there about every 6 weeks on business (25+ years ago). Was bad enough then. Had a Former Marine Buddy that lived outside of Jax. Had asked him if it was OK to go into town. He said he felt as safe there as he did in Khe Sanh. Went to The Who turns 50 concert @ Veterans Stadium in ’15. GREAT SHOW! Took a cab from the B&B, dropped off at the gate and arranged for same cabbie to pick us up after the show. Cabbie said there were many areas that he would refuse to go into. A prayer for the quick and complete recovery to the wounded LEO. May the dead perp enjoy his trip to Hell.

Poor little Taevion won’t get a “mostly peaceful” demonstration showing what a gud boi that dindu nuffin he was. He may have to miss choir practice for awhile tho.

“We’ll have to pass this law to see what is in it…” Maybe we need to pass a law that gets rid of the lawmakers.

“RFB” Really Fugly Bullpup? Sorry, not sorry…I’ll take a hard pass. Think I’ll stick with my Mossy Maverick for close in danger zone work. I have confidence that it will put a bad guy on ice, man.

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

To echo Publius, this quote from Ayn Rand, “There’s no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren’t enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”

― Ayn Rand

Noice.

To that point, there will always be; glitches in the Matrix, birds in the Panopticon, and ‘shiners up in them thar Hills.

Thank God for the rebels.

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President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

Yay, Popcorn!

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

Sounds like the Jax perp was looking for suicide-by-cop. And it also appears that he got his wish.

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

What problems would there be if the brass were ejected straight DOWN?

11B-Mailclerk

Much less, but that is a complete redesign.

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

So? And KelTek couldn’t have designed it that way from the beginning? Instead of using the poop tube chute?

Last edited 1 year ago by President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

I had a Remington model 241 that was a JMB design. It ejected from the bottom and worked well until hot brass went down your sleeve. Nice rifle otherwise.

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

OUCH!
(sorry to laugh, but….)

jeff LPH 3 63-66

 Charlie Brown, died jumping from the Dames Point bridge into the river. . That charlie Brown, hes a clown, hes gonna get caught just you wait and see, why.s everone picking on me

Hate_me

If I could like this twice, I would.

jeff LPH 3 63-66

I keep saying about these LEOS getting shot on traffic not learning the Fergusson rule about no traffick stops, slowing down on gun runs and domestics DEPENDING on your sector.

jeff LPH 3 63-66

Looks like books will be booked after release from the hospital and have plenty of time to read books if he does any time or just pay a fine and be released by a liberal DA/Judge if they exist in that city, so I wouldn’t make book on either option I typed in on my comment. Now I’ll open up one of my 80+ books on coin/card magic and get back into packet card tricks.

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

Packet card tricks? Versus serial card tricks?

jeff LPH 3 63-66

I have never of serial card tricks and haven;t come across the name in any of my books. clue me in???

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

(sorry)
Small inside joke.
I build/repair/work with/test a device that communicates using a bluetooth module, and we can set it (via software) to communicate in either packet mode, or serial mode.

Last edited 1 year ago by President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

What is sad is that I know what you’re talking about.

Anonymous.

Even the possums ain’t happy:

FuHaPJAWwAgWJSU.jpeg.jpg
Graybeard

After the Bandidos were offed in the greater GB AO*, the local LEOs posted pictures of how busy their officers have been, in the form of a large quantity of confiscated firearms, ammo, and moola.
It’s getting crazier out there.

*FYI, they were offed by a rival OK gang in retaliation for an incident in OK.

Last edited 1 year ago by Graybeard
Roh-Dog

Definite FG:

Buzzfeed is dead.

The article link is just for lolz. Miss Frey goes on at length about her, which is telling of-and-the-whys these pampered children of the upper middle class should be made homeless and destitute.

You got high on your own farts. Shame, that.

Will report back when Vice and the state-mouthpiece BI dies unceremoniously too.

Roh-Dog

Sometime my brain does things,

A joke, by Roh-Dog:

What is the difference between a ‘”journalist” and a wh0re?

For one the umlaut is a noun, the other a ‘big tip’.

I can’t tell you which is which, but newsrooms are carpeted.