EVs saving us gas

| December 3, 2022

Well, now we touch on one of the most polarizing issues around: electric cars. They cost a bunch more than comparable internal combustion cars, some are incredibly ugly, and in the eyes of many, their limited range is a deal killer. But they save the planet, require no gas to run, and give conservation-minded folks warm-fuzzies that last for hours.  So, for all those folks who have spent a fortune on Teslas, etc. – what have they actually accomplished? Jalopnik says:

Americans bought 2.1 million plug-in vehicles, including 1.3 million battery EVs, in the last decade.

Globally, EVs are selling even better, with 26 million predicted to be roaming international roads by year’s end, according to experts.


So bunches of EVs…now for the numbers – what have they done for us?

In total, Argonne (National Lab – ed.) calculates that US plug-in vehicles have driven nearly 70 billion miles since 2010, consuming 22 TWh of energy in the process. That’s displaced the use of more than 2.5 billion gallons of gasoline and 19 million tons of greenhouse gases, Argonne reports, although for context, the US consumed about 369 million gallons of gasoline a day in 2021. For 2021 specifically, plug-in vehicles saved about 690 million gallons of gasoline—about two days of consumption—and reduced CO2 emissions by 5.4 million metric tons, consuming 6.1 TWh in the process. (emphasis added mine)

Ars Technica

That works out to a .54% (.0054) decrease in gas consumption. Ten years for boatloads of EV sales, and next to no reductions: the equivalent of 2 days of gas usage. Wow.

We’d have better results if we could wean ourselves of SUVs and ginormous trucks. We’ve had 50 years to achieve energy efficiency  independence, and produced The Hummer.

Category: Science and Technology, SJW Idiocy, Society

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Ford, GM and Chrysler won’t dare give up the gas guzzling SUV and Trucks since that is their big money maker. To satisfy CAFE standards thay are switching cars to EVs and nobody wants to buy them even with subsidies.

I think all the people pushing EVs should be forced to buy EVs, especially politicians who are forcing us in this direction. Reality is that they don’t want to push us into EVs they want us to start using public transportation and give up our private vehicles.


STSC knows what he speaks of…

Auto manufacturers selling vehicles in the US get a “pass” on their light trucks/SUV CAFE standards IF they produce an electric vehicle. No ‘lectric, no pass on the CAFE.

Free market, huh?


It’s not just that. Mega SUVs and trucks are under special depreciation rules. If the vehicle weighs over 6K pounds it can be fully depreciated in the year it is placed into service. This is why a lot of small business owners buy them.


Or maybe, just maybe, you actually NEED that 3/4 ton pickup to do your fucking JOB. You try rollin’ solo on a service call for electrical substation or industrial facility in a Prius or Tesla.


People who have not done real labor don’t understand that a 3/4 ton pickup or van is not a luxury but a necessity for those jobs.

Good luck trying to convince the True Believers that their rose-colored-glass view of the world is delusional.


Or maybe, just maybe, you actually NEED that 3/4 ton pickup to do your fucking JOB

I drive a Prius and I endorse this message!


Correct. And try getting up the mountain to that wind turbine or solar farm in 2′ of snow. Even in a F150 with 4WD it can be, uh, interesting.


I read an article, forget where now, some journalist tagged along with one of their friends in an electric vehicle from New Orleans to Chicago. Sounded like a fun trip so off they go. If I remember correctly, what would have been a long days drive took 3. Recharging was the biggest obstacle as you can imagine. 2 or 3 hours at some gas station, truck stop, electrical outlet with nothing to do but wait. Apparently the rapid chargers are anything but rapid.

Now imagine doing that on a family vacation with 2 or 3 kids, all your stuff you think you need for this trip. One of the parents after sitting through 1 or 2 “rapid” recharges is going to be on the phone to either a divorce or defense lawyer. Or they will be buying a gas powered suv for the sake of sanity in the middle of their

Hack Stone

Multiple times Hack Stone has posted about the pending disaster when there is a mandated evacuation due to a wildfire or hurricane. Tens of thousands of vehicles clogging the roads, and they all have to be recharged. Queue up the cars, and wait twelve hours (if you are lucky) for your opportunity to charge your vehicle. That’s if the power grid is not taken out by the natural disaster.


How many Electric Bucket trucks did you see in the staging areas, waiting on the storm to pass so the grid could be rebuilt?


Didn’t you know there battle, ALL bucket trucks are electrical. You just tap off the line to charge her up and, away you go. /Sarc


A Proud Infidel®™

But how ’bout the environmental impact of all the electric vehicles getting caught in a wildfire and burning? Let’s also not forget about the EV’s caught up in flooding from Hurricane Ian that quickly became rolling firebombs afterwards!

Hack Stone

Water logged EV’s are a great source for quickly cooking a pallet of MRE’s. Instructions read “Place against EV or something.”

Top W kone

The problem with EV’s is people keep applying the the minor use case to them. Trying to force an EV to do something it is not designed for. Such as using a wrench as a hammer.

EVs shine doing less than 200 mile trips and are amazing at daily <60 mile trips/use. Straight up comparison in that category EV’s kill ICE.

Yes, they suck at going long distance. Their design and current tech can’t do it efficiently. But people (mostly anti-EV) point at this as reason EV’s are no good, and will never work.

But that is not what they are designed for.

EV’s are just now beginning to become a measurable part of the total car population. That part will continue to increase and the reduction in CO will get bigger.

Yes, coal generates a large part of power. But each year it is less. Renewables ten years ago were less than 0.1%, today it is over 19%. And coal plants are being aged out and replaced by nat gas all the time.


Can an EV lay down a patch? Both wheels?


A Tesla will outrun anything you own in the 1/4 mile.


Not arguing that. But I will get to my 500 mile away destination today. You may not.


Had to check. Damn.


They’re kind of pigs tho. The Tesla Model S Plaid can do 1.08 g (11 m/s²) on the skid pad. Not too shabby but bested by even some domestic performance steel that sound much better, IMHO.

Numbers ain’t the whole story…


Sure, how often does one launch down a drag strip? Still, those numbers beat a, er, performance motorcycle I put together. That’s impressive.


Electrics typically deliver ~100% of rated torque from rest. That is why railroad locomotives are deisel-electric.

So the “batt-mobile” typically has way more “getgo” than almost any burner.


I agree. They tend to handle well.because of the low center of gravity with the battery. However I suspect no one has ever seriously engineered the suspension on one. It could be a lot better.


Not quite. Ninja ZX-14.



70 miles per every hour of charge time sounds like a bargain. Are you a licensed electrician or will this be a diy install? If you have a fire in your house and it’s traced back to charge station as the cause, will the insurance company pay without an inspection on record? Do you get an electric vehicle discount rate on home electric bill?

My neighbor, young guy and his wife had a prius hybrid. Batteries were going out, and he got an estimate to replace. Clean car in and out, was worth 4500 trade in. Battery replacement was more than the car was worth. He drives a kia Forte now, and swears he will never go back to Batteries or hybrids. Time will tell.


EV’s are just now beginning to become a measurable part of the total car population. That part will continue to increase and the reduction in CO will get bigger.

Me and my hangover read this 3 or 4 times now, it’s still nonsense. see meme.


Now tow something with an EV.

They tried with the F-150 Lightning. It’s rated for 10,500–less than the 3.5L Ecoboost (14,000) but not too shabby.

Until you hook up a boat or trailer.

90 miles with a 7200 lb trailer. And no, the numbers don’t get much better with lighter trailers.



If these the EVs are so great, then why isn’t the presidential limousine and motorcade fully electric? C’mon man! Lead by example!


Or the space shuttle! And don’t give me that Malarky about not
enough charging stations in space. If we build them they will be
there. No joke.

Steve 1371

I had a 2000 Crown Vic that I really liked till mice got in there and re-wired it. They can really mess things up! I can just imagine what they could do for an EV with all the electronics etc.


They do. Mice love EV’s when they are charging because they are warm. Some cayenne will take care of that.


At least they don’t get mice building nests in
the engine air cleaner.


Hardware cloth, 3-to-4 zip ties, 5 minutes.

Problem solved.

A Proud Infidel®™

Remember a few years ago when VW bragged about having vegetable-based insulation on all of the wiring in their cars? Rodents quickly smelled that stuff and went after it as a food source, rendering a lot of VW cars undriveable due to the electrical system going kaput from said rodents.


It’s not just VW that went to vegetable based insulation. Remember all those cars sitting unfinished manufacturer lots and warehouses because of chip shortages? Yeah, the rats are eatin’ good in the neighbourhood. Good luck buying a 2021 or 2022 vehicle. You’re going to have electrical problems from the jump.

Steve 1371

I have put sticky traps in the engine bay of all my vehicles. So far I have caught one mouse in my 1ton dump truck. I know they have been in my wife’s VW Passat be cause I found a nest under the plastic engine cover. My pick up had a nest in between the inner and outer right fender. Have caught several in my camper as well. We live in the country.


Armored limos are incredibly heavy. It would have to be some kind of special one off build. Then people would start bitching about how much the government spent on it.


I’m waiting to see a murder of Hell’s Angels riding electric Harleys.


I see a lot of value in silent motorcycles.

The tech has been there for decades. It’s only those inane safety laws that force bikes to be loud and hold down the electric engine.


There’s charging stations and then there’s charging stations—some are faster than others. I caught one or two videos of a few guys driving from Idaho to Prudhoe Bay, AK in the summer. What saved their bacon in Alaska was being able to recharge the battery Ford Lightning from the Ford hybrid F-150. When they got to Deadhorse they used a 220 dryer outlet. That took hours.

I might would go hybrid but only new because of the battery replacement cost.


Interesting, today, >1% of the vehicles on the road are electric. Practically all of them are lightweight passenger cars that are already well known to have better fuel economy than the majority of vehicles on the road which are trucks and SUVs at a ratio of about 1.5:1 .

But that is just today where we are at all time peak numbers in the past have been lower.

So I’m not sure what your point is? They are displacing almost exactly the amount of gasoline that the same number of passenger cars would use and this is somehow offending you in some way?

You left out some other things people like about EV’s.

  • They are as fast as greased monkey shit. A top end Tesla can match the acceleration on my C8, although the base model C8 is cheaper than any Tesla. For both vehicles it is more an issue of tire traction than power.
  • If it is a Tesla, it is much more simple and easier to operate.
  • Very quiet.

You sound like the horseless carriage Karen of 1902.


I left out some other advantages.

  • Maintenance costs drop by about 90%. Tesla batteries outlive the car (400,000 miles). They never have a blown engine, leak or burn oil.
  • Many employers in my area now have charging stations. They can plug in at work and charge all day. Some employers give away the electricity for free.
  • For local business fleet cars they can plug in and it is a bit cheaper than paying for gas. It’s about $1 gallon for gas at about 32MPG.

Some employers give away the electricity for free.

Just want to say your words back at you, for emphasis.


Oh boy, now you got sand in your panties about employer benefits. Proof there really isn’t anything you won’t bitch about.


No one is bitching, look up the definition of free.
My critique is it ain’t and it isn’t ‘free’.


It’s free to the employee as a job perk. If you don’t like how the company provides for it’s employees vote with your wallet.

Some companies give away free lunches to their employees (although not Twitter anymore lol). Does that upset you too?


Look, I’m too lazy to explain this all to you and I’m not sure you’re bright enough to take in all the data, digest it, and come to an unbiased conclusion.

But for the sake of pissing into the wind:

In October of 2022, the average transaction price for a new car (of any powertrain) was $48,281 according to Kelley Blue Book. At the same time, the average electric car price was $64,249 (for new cars). yaa

That difference of $16k is not the only difference in that equation, per your ‘free’ infrastructure/services proposition. Hidden costs be hidden, yo! (are you starting to get it?)



Aww… you thought I was propositioning you, sweet man.

I don’t think you understand free markets at all. When labor is tight, like it is right now, companies offer more benefits and entitlements to induce well qualified people to work for them. They *gasp* pay them more too. Like more than what the company perceives to be less valuable employees. I know this is all just crazy talk to you but that’s how it works in a free market.

I always wondered if you were a socialist. Thanks for clearing that up irrefutably.


Yeah, no problem, I guess.

I’m a socialist alright! The type that believes small companies have just as much as a right to exist as large ones, and those mom-n-pop’s have a right to no government interference or subsidies, just like the big ones.

These ‘incentives’ are only permissible because of zero rate interest policies that benefit scale over productivity, Most, if not all, here would agree that a ‘credit rating’ or ‘worthiness’ should get you a benefit. This ‘benefit’ has, is, and will continue to distort markets until it can’t.

Great Financial Crisis 2.0 Redux, all over again because of these inefficiencies.

And because these large companies are the ultimate welfare queens, We, the People will be on the hook again.

If any of that sounds ‘socialist’ to you, you’re an idiot and an asshole.

Sorry not sorry.


The average wage is decreasing in relative terms here in the US, add to that, the cost of financing vehicles is going up (or ‘getting Powell’ed as it were).

All of this will further bifurcate the market by usury on cars that don’t offer value to those that can least afford those ‘capital improvements’ companies ‘offer for free’.

Yeah, I have a problem with free lunches, especially when they’re foisted upon the poorest for the sake of the richest. (see: perverse incentive)

Let the Free Market sing!!


Your company ramps up its prices to cover the added expense of that “free” perk. Which means we pay for your perk.


Depends on which maintenance costs you’re talking about. Tires/ tire changes are far more difficult and expensive than standard. and then of course, when things go bad, there’s this..



I assume the motors in these EV’s are series wound
DC with “brushes”. Just like a trolley car. High start
torque but still, the brushes need replacement as a
wear item, just like brake shoes etc. They also are a
fire hazard.



Next you’ll be saying strip mining for Li and Co isn’t earth friendly.


It’s actually worse than that. The amount of lithium out there is finite and if we dig up every known ounce of it today and turn it into batteries there still isn’t enough to make enough cars for the whole world.

So pick your poison, run out of oil or run out of batteries, probably run out of both at some point.


We’ve been told for DECADES that we’re running out of oil. I call BS on that. Oil and natural gas bubble up from the Earth’s core. Last estimate was over 19 BILLION barrels in just the Permian Basin. And that was proven reserves before exploration was halted. And that doesn’t include the shale oil available or the oil/gas that can be squeezed out of coal.

EV is a nice tool to have in the box, but it is not, at this point in time, the replace all for ICE. Works well for some, but for others…not so much. Smart money would be on a hybrid that has a little motor to keep the batteries charged going down the road. Recent 400 mile trip in F150 took slightly over 6 hours. Same trip in Tesla was over 8. 2 charge stops and rolled to the finish with just a few miles of charge left.

A Proud Infidel®™

I remember being told that we MAYBE had enough Natural Resources to last us another 10 years back in the mid-80’s, that and other eco-doomsday hoaxes have made me a hardcore skeptic about what the eco-kook crowd says.
FACT: The vast majority of facilities which produce electricity are powered by fossil fuels, thus every electric car is fueled the vast majority of the time by coal or gas!


Nope. Note the name Tesla. The motors are AC 3 Phase induction motors. They don’t require maintenance on the motor but you have to get your wheels aligned much more often.


Yeah, but that means that they need some type of VFD. When those go south, they are expensive to replace.


And the best part is the reduced fire hazard that you would
otherwise have with liquid fuels…..


See my link above on that one Beans


I know a couple of firefighters, and they tell me in the event of ev fires, they just let them burn themselves out.

Also, are the batteries recycled or able to be?

If you want an ev, I won’t try to change your mind. By the same token, even if you’re a friend, if your ev goes toes up, sorry to hear about your luck. I will not be coming to your rescue with my gas powered vehicle and car trailer.

I will however snicker in front you loud enough for you to hear tho.


I don’t have a problem with EVs. I have a problem with the people that worship EVs and don’t know why.

The schools have failed a large swath of ‘Merica.

As half of my household’s vehicles goes less than 3,000 mi/yr (mine) and 99.5% of her trips are less that 20 mi/day-use, we’d be a perfect candidate for the tech.

The cost/value/price ratio isn’t even close compared to an ICE vic. I blame the stupid tax subsides. It is a sin and needs to be stopped.


I know. It is kind of like saying those electric cars are coal powered. Ignorance at it’s finest. I blame the internet meme producers myself, but they gonna do what they gonna do.


It’s not ignorance if it’s true. An EV in my area is roughly 50% coal powered. As Roh-Dog said:

“I don’t have a problem with EVs. I have a problem with the people that worship EVs and don’t know why.”


Renewables brief well. On this board we understand what that means. All I want to know is why they have never been tried on the pilot scale.

Run one small town, doesn’t have to be a city, just run a small town on wind and solar. You don’t even need to have a manufacturing base, just run appliances and AC or heat using renewables.

If you can use them on a town, scale up. If you can’t, rethink it.

A Proud Infidel®™

Want to really have some fun screwing with somebody? Go up to someone who owns a Tesla and ask them how their “Electric Toyota” handles on the road, I’ve yet to have one reply to that without going batshit telling me “It’s NOT a Toyota, it’s a Tesla!!!”.


Parting shot on the current idiocy thinking tax breaks for golf carts is a sustainable model. (look, its hyperbole. calm your tits)

“Doctor Doom” has a way of putting things I don’t have the tolerance, education, nor proclivity for.

Out with the Missus for the evening. I owe her bigly for putting up with me.

Have a great night y’all.


Something I’m not seeing (yet) on this thread: victim extraction in an MVA.

EMS has to have special training and access to an app that will tell them where the wires run on every different EV to safely use Jaws Of Life or cutting tools to get a victim out of a crunched EV. Hopefully before a lithium fire occurs.

The True Believers gonna worship at the altar of “emission free” – more power to them (they’re gonna need it).

Me, gimme a F250 gas vehicle and long-distance travel capability any ol’ day. For us Texas folks a 300 mile trip is just a hop, skip, and a jump down the road. The damnyankees can do their thing if they want, I don’t want to join them.


I’ve lived in rural Texas and I’ve lived in rural NY. Those yankees are no strangers to long commutes – they milk more dairy than Wisconsin and have more mountain ranges than most states.

They likely have fewer steers and more queers than you lone stars, but just as much will to defend their honor when need be.

Prior Service

I guess they’ve saved enough gas that I feel good about getting out and running my V8 Vette around post today, leaving a trail of rich unburnt gas fumes in my wake (gotta re-tune that carburetor!)…