10th Mtn CG wants troops to use their phones less

| June 9, 2022

ninja sends in word that the commanding general of the Army’s 10th Mountain Division is directing his officers and men to be less reliant on cell phones. This is a lesson coming out of the Russian Invasion of Ukraine, where cell phone data from Russian troops has been used to identify their locations and movement.

From Military.com;

The commander of the Army’s prestigious 10th Mountain Division wants troops to be less glued to their phones, ordering commanders and senior noncommissioned officers to lay off texting soldiers after duty hours. He wants his formations to be careful about their reliance on phones over concerns the constant barrage of social media and messages are impacting troops’ mental health.

Maj. Gen. Milford Beagle Jr., commander of the Fort Drum, New York-based division, on Tuesday issued a memo barring leaders under him from texting or calling their subordinates before 5 a.m. or after 6 p.m., with some caveats for exceptional circumstances, including situations involving the well-being of a soldier.

The memo also seeks to stop soldiers from using phones during meetings and field exercises, though Beagle told Military.com in an interview that his intent isn’t an outright ban on phones and more of a strong suggestion for troops to be weaned off their devices. Troops lean on cell phones to conduct daily work too frequently, he added, but said the key concern is cell phones’ impact on mental health and leaders having a constant digital leash on soldiers. Instead, he said leaders need to figure out how to put information out to soldiers before they’re released from duty.

“It’s the stress of the phone. It’s all the group texts [soldiers are] getting after hours, sometimes late, that don’t amount to anything — stuff leaders can wait until tomorrow or have better planning.” Beagle said. “[Leaders] need to make sure they have their business in order so they can put our proper information at the end of the duty day while they have [soldiers] there.”

The memo, he said, is more of an indictment on leaders, not the phones themselves. Some soldiers on social media raised concerns over whether Fort Drum was banning troops from using their phones while on duty, which Beagle said isn’t the case. Soldiers can still use phones to pass the time and keep in contact with their families.

“I’m not trying to take your phone at all. If you’re checking Twitter, I do it between meetings, that’s totally fine,” Beagle said. “But what I’m not doing is sending a text to one of my commanders on something I can call them on or we can talk about it the next day. … We’re not saying if your wife calls you can’t take a call; it’s about common sense. That’s where folks get confused.”

So-called “digital hygiene” is an emerging topic in the medical field, focusing on how much technology in a person’s life is too much. Early studies have suggested that constantly engaging with a smartphone can lead to anxiety and depression.

I don’t know that we need a new name for it, but disconnecting from time to time is obviously healthy. There’s not much more relaxing than being in a place that not a soul can find or reach you. Peace, quiet, and a good book. That’s my bliss.

Here’s the general’s memo;

This is some good leadership if you ask me. Both for combat preparedness as well as the day-to-day well being of his troops.

Category: Army

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Mike B

Not to be rude, but a lot of the current generation posts everything they do during their daily schedule on social media.

I remember the old commercials on AFN, regarding spies and the essential bits of information. Doesn’t take a genius to figure out what’s going on with some units just by reading their’s or their families posts.

That and if it can wait until morning, why send it out it at 2300……And how much of it is important or just daily BS stuff….?

Some leaders as pointed out, rely on the cell phone too damn much…..If you have to send me messages constantly. Either you aren’t doing your job or you have piss poor time management.

Last edited 1 year ago by Mike B
Anonymous

Loose lips sink ships.
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Last edited 1 year ago by Anonymous
LIRight47

The lessons of war cannot be denied.

Last edited 1 year ago by LIRight47
Stacy0311

You mean like PAO on my last deployment? Before we were even wheels up, PAO had posted pictures on social media.
“1SG Jones, of Smalltown TX says good bye to his wife and 3 kids as he heads to Baghdad, Iraq for a 10 month deployment.”
 🙄 

Martinjmpr

So funny. When we redeployed from Afghanistan in 2003 our COC threatened UCMJ for anybody whose family met us at the airport, since that would have meant the soldier had violated OPSEC. A year later when we came back from Kuwait, the PAO contacted all the families ahead of time and let them know. I guess OPSEC didn’t matter then.

Anonymous

Like contingency missions deploying to the sandbox when Saddam was acting up in the ’90s– finally, no Joes leak for once, then Stars & Stripes puts it on the front page the day before folk fly.

Last edited 1 year ago by Anonymous
AZRobert

Welcome to the MetaVerse where you can check in but you can never check out…without being tracked.

Anonymous

Won’t post a Captain Obvious meme… but you get the idea.

P.S. Kids, get to know and learn how to use these things again… Siri won’t always tell you were you are:
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Last edited 1 year ago by Anonymous
Roh-Dog

What the shit is THAT?

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Anonymous

Not to mention that there are still Pokemon at Bagram and some fools want to go get them.
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a36945681/us-troops-evacuate-afghanistan-bagram-airfield-leave-pokemon-behind/

Last edited 1 year ago by Anonymous
President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

Go ahead. Be my guest. But know this. You pay your own way in. You pay your own way out. And if you get into trouble, ain’t no one gonna come and rescue you.

A Proud Infidel®™️

A popular stunt during the Pokémon craze was to go to say, a busy park acting like you’re hunting with your phone and say “A Mew” and watch others go apeshit!

Roh-Dog
ChipNASA

I was never part of the Pokémon craze and I swear to God I was expecting this to be The Babylon Bee,
And it took me a couple of seconds to realize popular mechanics is not satire 😑

rgr769

Using those is how I had to navigate for my ten years of service. My first electronic gizmo was a simple hand-held calculator that I spent many hours assembling with a book of instructions and a soldering iron.

David

I remember when a group of analysts at Field Station Augsburg used nothing but what was published in Starts and Stripes to put together a more accurate TO&E for USAREUR than had been publicly released. Lots of classified info that had slipped past the folks who were supposed to sanitize data prior to release and publication.

SFC D

I recall my uncle Bob (CDR USN) telling me about Big Navy losing their minds when Clancy released “Hunt for Red October”. He’d done essentially the same thing, put all the pieces together via open sources. Navy thought they had a major intel leak.

rgr769

Read the article. It looks like back in 1944, some moms and dads had “loose lips” around their kidlets. Thank God for the massive deception plan for Overlord that kept the German High Command convinced that Normandy was just a feint.

Roh-Dog

Many fones have the ability to ‘do not disturb’. But the General be right, if you put it out at COB, unless safety or an extremely important FRAGO, stfu and deal with it in the am.

You should have the balls to tell a leader ‘no’ also, and be prepared to cite chapter-and-verse on why.

Even back in my day, fones in the field were a no-go!! (unless the Soldier had a family emergency/situation requiring contact. Rare as shit)

Group texts are [mostly] of the devil.

KoB

Anytime I get a piece, I generally keep quiet about it. Tho the telling of her bliss would make a good book. Oh…what? “peace”? Never mind.

One reason why I’m hanging on to COP CRC Timber Ranch. Fifteen acres to hide in. Good luck on getting Pvt Snuffy to put his/her/it’s/they/them’s phones down. OPSEC went out the window when Ol’ Gnrl McHorny had Ms Thang running after him. The whole “Social Media” thing may go away when Rittenhouse’s lawers get finished with Suckerborg. heh heh

FuzeVT

Good for the CG. I know I didn’t like late night tasking with things that could wait. I tried to ensure that I didn’t bug my subordinates, either.

As for not using phones in the field, I am fully onboard with that. I was a commo and saw there was way too much reliance on that. Getting around having to tactical comms with the ease of cell phones teaches bad lessons. When I was with the 31st MEU, it was actually nice that we operated in places that didn’t have a great deal of cell coverage. When we were in the Philippines or Thailand and we all had Nokias, however, bad habits ensued. No security on a Nokia, friends!

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Roh-Dog

People have no idea if we go against a near-peer or superior force how that will necessitate a sea change in commo plans. This dude reopened my eyes to the early days of my training and the purpose behind reenforcing the basics.

Graybeard

BZ General.
Especially calling out “leaders” who get a brain fart visit from the good idea fairy that they decide to push out on their men.

And the breaks from media won’t hurt anyone.

Our pastor once asked his father, who had been a pastor himself, what his people did when they couldn’t contact him (before cell phones and pagers). His dad replied:
“They waited. And usually they resolved the issue themselves.”

Flagwaver

Did the general also discover that water was wet, fire was hot, and night was dark?

Martinjmpr

I’m assuming that at least a part of this is that the general got tired of his sub-units showing up on facebook pages like USAWTF Moments. Seeing that makes me so glad that cell phones were virtually unheard of until my last couple of years in. Nowadays, leaders at all levels can put the arm on their troops at all hours of the day and night, and from what I’ve seen on USAWTFM, they do exactly that, constantly.

It makes me wonder how we were even able to Army back in the days when you simply could not get in touch with a Joe after 1700 unless you sent a runner and happened to find him in his barracks room. If he had a car (and when I was in CONUS I always did) you better believe there was no way of finding me after duty hours.

And yet, somehow the Army survived…. 🙄 

Martinjmpr

Even in Germany and Korea, where I didn’t have a car, I had good shoes and perfectly good feet. So I used them to get out of the barracks and somewhere else. Didn’t matter: Post library, NCO club, PX, downtown, whatever.

I learned very quickly that if you slept in on Saturday or Sunday mornings you were begging to be thrown on a “hey you!” detail by some disgruntled CSM or 1SG.

Nowadays we see endless stories of soldiers getting texts at all hours of the day and night telling them to respond, making last-minute changes to previously settled arrangements, etc. Couldn’t do that before cell phones.

A Proud Infidel®™️

I hear you about Korea. During my time there, I was on Korean mass transit (Bus and Train) headed to Seoul as soon as I had a Warrior Pass in hand headed to Yongsan and Itaewon! During my time on Benning I enjoyed a number of weekends camping out at Lake Eufala the hell away from the barracks as well.

Anonymous

Instant contact ruins decision discipline, planning ahead and just plain independent function (make a decision and stick with it) if sh*t changes seven times before first formation (including when/when first formation is) since COB.

Milley makes a good point about push-to-talk connectivity being gone in our next war (Gosh, the Russkies or Chincoms will cut off teh Interwebs and cellphones?!) and folk being able to function independently like grown adults:

Last edited 1 year ago by Anonymous
Martinjmpr

You know, that’s a really good point about “Decision discipline.”

Another factor about instant communication is that it leads to excessive oversight, micromanagement and requires junior leaders to never make a decision without checking with their superiors first.

That in turn puts junior leaders into the habit of NOT making decisions. So when the SHTF and they don’t have comms with their higher, they freeze up and fail to make decisions because in the past they’ve never had to: They could always forward their decisions to a higher level and let THOSE leaders make the decision for them.

AW1Ed

“I sure am glad these cell phones all come with a camera.” said no NCO, ever.

Good call, General.

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

Yep. Especially since that platoon got court martialed for doing their duty and “waxing” some (Afghani?) insurgents. All was good……until some “bright bulb” decided to take a pic of them standing by/pissing on the insurgents’ bodies.

President Elect Toxic Deplorable Racist SAH Neande

Peace, quiet, and a good book…”

And a perpetual pot of tea.

“….That’s my bliss.”

My wife (love her dearly) just doesn’t understand. I come home from work, and she wants to talk about her day, have me sit and watch TV with her, go somewhere, do something…..
And all I want to do is per the above. Sit. Quiet. Book. Do Not Disturb.
And she wants to know, “what’s wrong?”
Nothing….if you leave me alone for the afternoon.

USAFRetired

For years I avoided cell phones. When I left home I didn’t want people to be able to get in touch with me. Thats why I left the house.

The Base I work at has a number of facilities that don’t permit cell phones, FIT/BITs,etc for security reasons.

I had to add a question to my standard interview questions for new potential employees. How married/attached are you to your cell phone. A contemporary of mine had a new hire in one of those facilities star on Monday a resign on Friday as they couldn’t live without their cell phone.

I see the same with my teenage daughter.

The geodata in the meta data of pics is an OPSEC event waiting to happen.

Martinjmpr

The thing is, this nonsense all starts at the top anyway. It goes like this: Joe goes out drinking at night with his buddies. At 2245 he gets pulled over by the cops and arrested for DUI. At 2345 he calls his Platoon Sergeant who notifies the 1st Sergeant. In accordance with Company and Battalion SOP, 1SG/CQ contacts Battalion Staff Duty who contacts Brigade Staff Duty for a SIR (Serious Incident Report.)

Now in the old (pre-smart phone) days, this is where it would stop until Monday morning PT formation because it simply was not possible to get in touch with the majority of soldiers in the unit over the weekend. At 0630 Monday morning, Soldiers would be notified at that formation that someone in B company got a DUI, so there goes our Friday training holiday and we will have mandatory alcohol awareness classes instead. Collective groans, yes, but at least everyone got to enjoy their weekend before the axe fell.

….to be continued….

Martinjmpr

Nowadays, though, it’s not like that. Everyone up to the CG or Division CSM will be notified of the DUI and at that time – even if it’s 0130 – the COC will send messages all the way down to the lowest private asking for every subordinate leader to post an “up” on all their soldiers. They will then be notified that the next day – whether it’s Saturday or Sunday – there will be an 0900 formation in duty uniform for accountability (which is a fancy way of saying “mass ass-chewing”) in the battalion area for anyone not on approved leave.

And that’s the problem. Smart phones give leaders the ability to fuck with their troops non-stop, and sadly, they use that ability to do exactly that, even though AFAIK there’s never been any studies that show that mass harassment of innocent service members will correct the behavior of dumbasses who get into trouble.

Anonymous

Yup.

Bde CSM was checking doorknobs in the barracks and walks in on a bunch of people havin’ group sex. Next thing we know, we’re in formation, in BDUs, an hour before PT time, getting yelled at by him for being preverts… and it was our sister battalion’s folk he caught.

Martinjmpr

CSM is just mad he wasn’t invited to join in….

Herbert J Messkit

Referring to those 2300 tasking, when everything is a priority One, nothing is.

NDHoosier

For fourteen years, I couldn’t shut off my cell phone. Fourteen. Fucking. Years. It was because I was (solo) caring for my mother, who had myriad health problems and was on so many medications she was a walking pharmacy, and there would be the inevitable emergencies at highly inconvenient times. Some time after she died, I was somewhere where I was really wishing I would not be disturbed – and it suddenly occurred to me I could now just shut off the phone. It was a glorious moment.

Old tanker

Not a bad idea. A phone is nothing but a fancy 2 way radio and anything broadcast can be intercepted and read. Just a plain old OPSEC concept not hard to understand. Same for professionalism in using it to keep troops informed.