Bronze Star Woes.
I have been away from my home computer and will be away for awhile. My internet is spotty at best so I have been lacking in the posting. But I saw this and thought that this needed a post. It all starts with a TSGT being awarded a Bronze Start for here tour in the Stan. Here is the back story found on thelittlep
JOINT BASE SAN ANTONIO-LACKLAND, Texas — An NCO from the 802nd Comptroller Squadron earned the Bronze Star March 14 for her actions in Afghanistan.
Tech. Sgt. Christina Gamez, a financial analyst in the 802nd CPTS, received the Bronze Star for meritorious service from Brig. Gen. Theresa A. Carter, 502nd Air Base Wing commander, prior to a commander’s call at Joint Base San Antonio-Lackland.
The Bronze Star is the U.S. military’s fourth-highest individual decoration for bravery, heroism or meritorious service.
Gamez distinguished herself by meritorious achievement as the NCO in charge during a 365-day deployment, January 2011 to January 2012. While in Afghanistan, she accurately executed operational funds across eight remote bases, providing commanders with flexibility in support of counterinsurgency efforts. Gamez trained 68 operational fund teams, reviewed 34 projects and funded 280 joint acquisition board packages enabling critical base sustainment.
It seems that the flak behind it was bad enough to have the story pulled from the Air Force’s website. Granted for how many times have we seen the Bronze Star get awarded to Senior level NCOs and Company Grade Officers during deployments but I never remember anything like this happen in the Army. Even the Air Force Times is covering it saying that there was another TSGT that was on the reciving end of harsh words. They even titled it that they were being “bullied”” on the front cover. I tried to find the story but I think that it is too new.
The story drew 70 online comments between March 26 and March 29, mostly from people who were livid because they said Gamez did not deserve to be recognized for doing her job.“I was the camp soccer mom because I was always taking care of people, so that’s the kind of pace I keep, whether it’s here or there,” Gamez said. “I knew that when I was deployed I needed to stay as busy as possible and that’s my normal.” Gamez was shocked that adults could be bullied like this.
“To all those who have gone outside the wire and are going outside the wire wearing 70lbs of gear and return with no more than a thanks for doing your job, I’m sorry you have to see people get BSM that don’t deserve them,” one commenter wrote on the Air Force website before the story was removed.
Anyways. It is not like this has happend before. Or that people in the Military know how the Bronze Star is given out. I mean there were more Bronze Stars given out during OIF 2003-2010 than the Combat Action Badge, by about 30,000. If the Combat Action Badge has a negative image about being just handed out then what does this say about the Bronze Star without Valor?
But honestly for some reason I am not bothered by her getting a BSM. I mean I would rather worry about Admin personal that lie about their awards to rip people off.But what say you?
Category: Veterans Issues, Who knows
Excellent point Hondo. I was obviously thinking only Army. Old habbit, my bad. Just makes point even harder.
@COB6: If it has a V device, then it is typically placed higher on the rack. Which would make it fourth.
@Hondo: It’s actually #15 per AR 670-1
(1) Medal of Honor (Army, Navy, Air Force).
(2) Distinguished Service Cross.
(3) Navy Cross.
(4) Air Force Cross.
(5) Defense Distinguished Service Medal.
(6) Distinguished Service Medal (Army, Navy, Air Force, Coast Guard).
(7) Silver Star.
(8) Defense Superior Service Medal.
(9) Legion of Merit.
(10) Distinguished Flying Cross.
(11) Soldier’s Medal.
(12) Navy and Marine Corps Medal.
(13) Airman’s Medal.
(14) Coast Guard Medal.
(15) Bronze Star Medal.
(16) Purple Heart
SIGO: I think you’d better re-check para 29-6 of AR 670-1, amigo. That would appear to be a NO GO.
Even more confusing is AR 600-8-22 that says it is #8:
(1) Medal of Honor.
(2) Distinguished Service Cross.
(3) Distinguished Service Medal.
(4) Silver Star.
(5) Legion of Merit.
(6) Distinguished Flying Cross.
(7) Soldier’s Medal.
(8) Bronze Star Medal.
(9) Meritorious Service Medal.
(10) Air Medal.
(11) Army Commendation Medal.
(12) Army Achievement Medal.
SIGO: my comment 54 was regarding your “placed higher in the rack” statement above.
AR 670-1 is counting all the DSMs as the same. In reality, they are 4 distinct awards – e.g., Army, Navy, and AF (DoD), plus Coast Guard (DoT). I excluded DoT awards and counted the various DSMs individually (the ribbons are different, and those few individuals with a DSM from more than one service wear both ribbons). That puts the BSM at #17. It would be #18 if the USCG DSM is also included.
@Hondo: I did.. It says #15 on pg. 267. But that’s if you have others. It varies depending on what you have. So precendence can go from #4 to #15.
AR 600-8-22 is only referencing Army decorations. Withing all Army decorations, the BSM is indeed 8th. Include sister-service and DoD decorations, and it falls to 17th or lower, depending on whether you include USCG decorations or not.
SIGO: it doesn’t matter whether or not the BSM has a V device or not. It’s worn in exactly the same place on the ribbon rack regardless. The only distinction on the ribbon is whether or not the V device is worn – not where the ribbon is placed.
@Hondo: I think we are talking over each other. What I mean is that it is the fourth highest medal in terms of precedence when it comes to ribbons with V devices on them.. see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valor_device#Criteria
A CSM we used to love and respect got onto us one day about “bullet inflation” on the new NCOER’s. He gave as an example a bullet written for a finance E6, justifying the highest rating for “having completed 100% of transactions with no discrepancies”.
His point: “How many transactions can a finance clerk mess up and still get a ‘meets standards’ on”
Speaking of such awards and the present school mentality or everyone gets a trophy…I recall a US Army MP that risked life and limb after a seven car pile up, pulling victims from a burning vehicle while a small crowd stood around watching other victims of the same crash dieing, instead of performing first aid. The rest of us got wind of his being alone on the scene, some of us MP’s got the lead out of our asses and went to help, much to the disgust of a 1st shirt (that had no business being assigned to an MP company).
Several months later, battalion command hearing of the MP’s daring do from the highway patrol officer that responded to it also, decided to bestow whatever medal (ACM I think it was) upon him. Said MP after all of us standing formation in our finery, handed the medal back to the battalion CO and requested that the Army keep the medal.
Shocked the living hell out of the rest us….
SIGO: I would be very careful when using Wikipedia as a source, particularly regarding military matters. It’s sometimes not exactly accurate. This is one such case.
In the Army, the V device is authorized by AR 600-8-22 (para 6-5) and AR 670-1 (para 29-12) to be worn on precisely 4 individual decorations – the BSM, the AM, the JSCM, and the ARCOM. AR 670-1 also authorizes it to be worn on two USAF Unit Awards – the AFOUA and AFOEA – by soldiers who are entitled to wear them if those awards were granted for unit participation in combat or direct combat support. Regardless of what Wikipedia says, the Army doesn’t use the V device on the AAM. (But I have to give Wikipedia credit for getting a surprising one right – per DoDM 1348.33, Vol 1, Enclosure 3, para 8.j., you actually do use a V device to show 2nd and subsequent awards of the MOH – though I doubt we’ll need to worry about seeing that any time soon. Learn something new every day.)
The services vary greatly in their use of the V device. For example, per SECNAVINS 1650.1H the Navy and USMC also uses the V device on the LM, DFC, and Navy Achievement Medal; the Army doesn’t use it on those decorations. The AF award instruction (AFI 36-2803) appears to authorize the V device on the BSM, AFCM, and AFAM only – though DoDM 1348.33, Vol 1, covers the JSCM for all services, so I guess the USAF felt it didn’t have to specify the V device for the JSCM. Curiously, the AFI doesn’t authorize it for the Air Medal – even though the same instruction also indicates that the Air Medal may be awarded for either heroism or achievement. Go figure.
Bottom line: when in doubt, grab the reg – not Wikipedia. Or find an expert. Wikipedia is sometimes good to confirm one’s memory, but you need to be very careful using it as a source unless it’s something with which you’re already very familiar. And even then, double-checking is a good idea.
This sh*t pisses me the h*ll off. You know, I didn’t join the military to earn medals. However, some of the stories like this piss me off to no end.
I was never awarded a single medal that wasn’t for Time In Service. Not one AAM, ACM, or any of those medals that idiot commanders toss to the lowest common denominator for tying their shoes with knots and not drooling on themselves in formation.
I have all the normal bells and whistles for nine years of service (an eight year contract and a try-one). I had high enough points as a 92Y to make E5, I ran a supply shop for a Battalion HHC, on orders for a year and a half with enough time in the Sandbox for an Expeditionary medal… And this bimbo does her job and gets a BSM.
WTF, over? If I had joined the Air Force, I’d be a frakking twenty-star general by now.
Personally, I am sick of ribbons and awards. Once a soldier reaches a certain level it loses meaning. When I see a 4 star general and the SMA of the army wearing a CAB it just tells me that it is a worthless award. I know a lot of people who earned CABs who don’t wear them on their uniforms, because they don’t mean anything. I cannot stand senior NCOs and officers who put themselves in for awards. What pisses me off about the story we are talking about is people are mad that an E-5 got a bronze star for doing her job, but how often does some E-7 and above get the same award and nobody say a damn thing. These assholes don’t have to worry about stolen valor they just put the paperwork in themselves.
Hell I am of the opinion that the army should go to a 3 ribbon max. You pick 3 ribbons to wear and that’s it. All I would wear is my Missouri Funeral Honors, Iraq campaign, and Good Conduct ribbon. I don’t need to impress anyone, those three tell every thing about me that anyone needs to know.
Jason: I can’t claim to speak for everyone. But I’m reasonably sure that most if not all the folks here aren’t pissed off at the
finance NCOs here (there were actually two different individuals, both female) who got these BSMs. I know I’m not, and have said so above. What I am pissed at is the blatant inequity I’ve seen regarding awards.
These two – meh. I was wrong in thinking they were E5s before – an AF Tech Sgt is an E6, not an E5. IMO, it’s not out of the question for an E6 in a key job to rate an MSM or BSM during a deployment in-theater. The regulatory criteria for the two awards are identical if presented for service or achievement. If they were actually in a real combat area like Afghanistan, it might make me wonder a bit to see that happen – it is rather rare – but it wouldn’t piss me off. I’ve seen E6s do work I thought deserved a MSM or BSM. For me, the key question is whether the work was done in a bona fide combat area or not.
But seeing commands play obvious favorites with awards has always galled me. And it really torques me to see commands give BSMs to staff folks in Kuwait – while at the same time giving MSMs to folks forward deployed to locations where actual warfare is going on. And I have personal knowledge of at least one HQ where exactly that has happened – more than once.
To those who feel awards and such are becoming meaningless I would only say, ribbons and medals are bits of cloth and metal, their individual meaning, or value, is to be found in the individual wearing them.
It’s like your name, it has no inherent quality of its own, it is what you make of it.
Jacobite I think that is part of the problem. Many of the people who wear them now are viewed as not deserving them that it cheapens the award itself. How many people here have said that a BSM means very little without a V device?
As I recall originally the CAB was to be for recognition for combat units similar to the CIB, but the whole one army one fight changed all that. Depending on who you were you could get shot at, blown up, or hear a mortar go off once and get awarded it…or unluckily if you have a hardass of a brigade commander not get awarded it. Or if you have a friend aproving the award it gets right through.
There appears to be two primary schools of thought on the awarding of military decorations here. The first is that a person earns it, if they are going ‘above and beyond’ their normal, expected duties, and when that occurs, you recognize them. The second appears to hold that a person who performs in a manner that impresses their superiors with their performance and that their command deems appropriate, even if it’s ‘just doing their job’. As a company grade officer, I’ve had this debate for my entire career with other leaders. I’ll think something is appropriate for one of my soldiers, and try to recognize them for their work, only to have my command tell me that ‘They are just doing their job’, and close it down. First of all, that’s not where it should stop; As soldiers we have all had some sort of leadership experience, and if you feel like joe earned something, it’s your responsibility to him to keep at it until you do the best for him as you can. Second, consider the actions in relation to the person. Does an infantryman deserve a decoration for going outside the wire and ‘doing his job’? Sure. But what about the staff in the FST’s or the CSH’s who will work themselves to death trying to save their brothers, donating so much blood they can’t see straight, or the enlisted in supply that are screaming to keep up with the demands from the trauma teams? They are ‘just doing their jobs’ when the mass casualty patients are pouring in, and there are more people needing care than there are resources and they have to do the best they can knowing some of them are going to die anyway. Is their contribution less the guys outside the wire because they aren’t taking direct fire? I feel it isn’t. Nor is the motor pool sergeant who works his fingers to the bone to get your trucks ready to roll, nor staff in the DFAC, nor the admin people who pay you. They all contribute, just like all of us here.… Read more »
And to forestall the quickdraw angry responses, I have not been in theater. I was mobilized to WRAMC from 09-mid 10, so we saw more than our share of casualties. The remainder of the time I’m a staff officer in a medical reserve unit. I’ve seen a crapton of surgeons and medical docs that never leave the wire come back with BSM’s while the Combat Medics come back with MSM’s and the like. I know that sometimes that people get awards that maybe don’t do the work to earn them in our eyes. I’m just saying that we, sitting here shouldn’t be so quick to judge, and to remind everyone on here that awards is a serious process and needs to be taken with careful thought and due diligence.
That’s all; Thanks for time, and for the rant space. Be safe out there Gents.
Jacobite, ANCCPT: well said. I don’t begrudge anyone who served in a real combat zone (e.g., somewhere where there were actual hostilities, like Afghanistan or Iraq) a combat decoration such as a BSM. That’s true whether they served primarily inside or primarily outside the wire; bullets and shrapnel neither know nor care about perimeter boundaries. And I also personally think anyone who served in such a place and came back with a peacetime decoration such as an MSM or AAM got screwed. Those have always been awards for peacetime service – and per AR 600-8-22, they still are peacetime awards to be awarded only for noncombat service. IMO, peacetime awards are just plain inappropriate as recognition for service in a area of actual hostilities. (The ARCOM and LM have always been both wartime and peacetime decorations, so I don’t have any problem with these being given in a combat zone.) The root of the whole problem here IMO was a rather ill-advised decision well prior to OIF to retain/declare pretty much all of Central and SW Asia a combat zone – including at times part of the Med, for Pete’s sake. (Yes, part of the freaking Med!) This decision led to a raft of cheapie BSMs in Kuwait and Qatar during and after OIF, which in turn led to the 2004 policy decisions to muddy the waters by allowing peacetime decorations (e.g., MSM, Achievement Medals) to be awarded in a combat zone as an “exception to policy”. The result was eminently predictable: those favored by their commands got BSMs – including many who never saw or heard a shot fired in anger – and everybody else got the leftovers (e.g., peacetime decorations of lower precedence in lieu of). The solution is IMO very simple, but politically costly: change the freaking designated combat zone to locations having active hostilities or true extreme risk, dropping most of what today qualifies. Today, that would be Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan, and maybe a few other locations worldwide having verifiable extreme-risk conditions (parts of Mindanao, Somalia, maybe parts of Yemen, Lebanon, perhaps a few… Read more »
Couldn’t have said it better ANCCPT! Alo to expand on ANCCP’s note to Flagwaver, maybe your leadership didn’t think you deserved an award. Just because you got a raw deal doesn’t mean you take it out one some esle by calling them a bimbo! I’m not saying she deserved it or not, not my place, I wasn’t there. Also concerning yor 23 star general comment: it is a well proven fact that promotions in the Army are much faster than in the AF. I know a 7 year Army E-7, which takes the average AF member almost 15+ years to make. So if you didn’t make rank it was your own fault and possibly further proof your leadership made the right call about your worthiness for an award.
Also not to start a service war but quoting the AF Times art: AF awarded just 13,354 BSMs /839 with V’s for BOTH Afgahn and Iraq. The Army on the other hand awared: 45,701/1,602 Vs for just Afgahn and 108,775/2,489 Vs for Iraq. Granted the Army had a whole s#*t ton more people porportunatly but still a lot of BSMs.
As previously stated this is an education (medal criteria) and leadership problem, don’t hate on the people who were awarded the award, just because you don’t think they deserve it. Unless you were there, all that matters is that some one made a judgement call to submit or not to submit, and the approving authority agreed with that what was submited was worthy of the award.
-Ish
I get what you’re saying Jason, and I know it’s a popular viewpoint, I just disagree. If someone who doesn’t deserve one wears one, I don’t believe it cheapens the award, I think it cheapens the wearer.
isnala: That actually sounds about right. My impression was that the Army had easily 10x the number of troops in both locations as did the AF, if not more.
Available figures support my gut feel here to a degree. For FY08, the Army provided 61% of the forces in the CENTCOM AOR; the AF, 12%. That’s a 5:1 ratio for starters. And with the exception of some Army support troops and HQs in Kuwait and a few more in Qatar and other places, virtually all of them were deployed to either Iraq or Afghanistan. In contrast, my impression is that a big chunk of the USAF forces and personnel in the CENTCOM AOR at that time were based outside of Afghanistan and Iraq – in places like Kuwait, Qatar, Kyrgyzstan, etc . . . . So while the ratio in Afghanistan and Iraq might not have been 10:1 Army:AF, it was likely substantially closer to that than 5:1.
http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/R40682.pdf Chart giving relative breakout by service in FY2008 supporting OEF/OIF in theater is on page 47.
Deployed four times to Iraq and/or Kuwait from 2003-2011, never got a BSM (assignments included medical NCO jobs ranging from an E-6 in an armored cav squadron to an E-8 in a sustainment brigade).
Look at the statistics over at the awards branch website on HRC and you will see that over 1/7th of all awards given out for OEF/OIF/OND for the Army are meritorious BSMs. After getting turned in (and downgraded) for the BSM more than once the philosophical perspective I adopted and tried to convey to my troops is that “an award is only worth what the approval authority thinks it is worth” and you can’t read that officer’s mind and know what he thinks is worthwhile or not.
My CMB means more to me than any other award-I have no doubts about it being deserved. Bling is nice and all, but I really would have only wanted a BSM so I could get the license plate in order to get out of speeding tickets.
The link to the HRC awards statistics page https://www.hrc.army.mil/TAGD/Awards%20and%20Decorations%20Statistics%20by%20Conflict (scroll down for OEF/OIF/OND)
Meritorious BSMs account for over 150,000 of just over 1 million total awards (in 2003 I saw the CPT who ran the TMC at As Sayliyah in Qatar get one and all the officers of the Area Support Medical Company I was in during 03-04 all got one-the unit had treatment teams as far north as Cedar II, but the leadership rarely left Kuwait).
@48 former3co, I agree 100%! The Good Conduct Medal is ridiculous. It was our duty to conduct ourselves in an appropriate manner. I will admit that during the time I served any award we could earn was gratefully accepted!? : )
I just want to point out that just because you serve in Kuwait, doesn’t mean a BSM isn’t warranted. Many of the units there were doing convoy duty for quite some time all over Iraq. Alot of people in those units died. Alot of worthy BSMs awarded to Convoy Commanders, and Lead Vehicle Commanders as well.
DJ: People who did convoy duties that took them into Iraq served in both Iraq and Kuwait, not just in Iraq. And if they made trips into Iraq on 30 or more separate days, I’m pretty sure they qualify for the ICM as well. If they got the ICM (or ended up engaged and got a PH+CAB+MEDEVAC out before qualifying for the ICM), I have no problem with them getting a BSM. I regard a BSM awarded for such duty as fully justified.
In contrast, the folks who served their tours at HQs in Kuwait or Qatar with perhaps a “tourist trip” or two to Iraq or Afghanistan IMO performed nothing more than remote peacetime duty under hardship conditions. In my book, they absolutely do not deserve BSMs. But that happens all too frequently.
Correction: commend 79 above should read “60 or more separate days”, not 30.
I agree with Hondo…….in my experience the BSM has turned into a deployment ‘end of tour’ award….rather than one for merit.
CI: I don’t have any problem with the BSM being an end of tour award either – provided (1) the individual’s performance merited that level of recognition, and (2) that tour involved a substantial amount of time spent in an honest-to-God combat area where shots were being fired in anger on a regular basis.
But I’ve got major heartburn with PowerPoint Rangers at HQs in places that never even hear shots fired (and who dive under a desk for cover if there’s incoming IDF anywhere nearby while visiting) getting combat decorations while folks actually deployed there for months at a time go home with the equivalent peacetime award. And if anyone’s wondering: yeah, that “dive under a desk for cover” comment above is indeed based on personal observation. I actually found a visitor from HQ under a desk while checking personnel accountability after incoming IDF once.
I still have trouble believing that I was able to keep myself from laughing out loud when I found that guy under that desk. (smile)
Dunno if that particular guy from HQ went home with a BSM, but it wouldn’t surprise me a bit if he did. I know at least one individual from that HQ did, and I’m fairly sure there was more than one.
@Hondo: If you don’t like that Qatar is declared a combat zone, then you might want to complain to your Congressman.
SIGO: I’ve considered that, actually. But Congress doesn’t generally declare combat zones – though they did for unpleasantness in Bosnia and surrounding areas from 1995 to 2007. Rather, the POTUS generally declares combat zones via Executive Order. And during the past 20+ years, combat zone designations just never seem to get revoked after the shooting stops. There’s only one such case during the past 21 years – and that was due to Congress, not the POTUS. Do you have any idea just how much of the world today is designated as qualifying for combat zone tax bennies? It’s probably quite a bit more than you think. Here’s a partial list of countries and areas. I think it’s fairly complete, but I might have missed a couple. I know I haven’t listed Libya and the surrounding part of the Med, which was effective during part of last year (and as of January 2012, was still in effect). Source is the DoD Comptroller’s current instruction covering the subject. Formally designated as combat zones (by Presidental Executive Order unless otherwise noted): Since 1991: Iraq, Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates (EO 12774). Still in effect. Yeah, you read that right. Except for Yemen, practically the entire Arabian Peninsula has been formally designated a “combat zone” since 1991. Since 1999: Serbia, Montenegro, Albania, Kosovo, the Adriatic Sea, and the Ionian Sea north of the 39th parallel (EO 13119). Still in effect. Since 2001: Afghanistan (EO 13239). Still in effect. Croatia, Macedonia, and Bosnia-Herzegovina were designated by Congress as qualified hazardous duty areas from Nov 1995 to Nov 2007 by Public Law 104-117 (combat zone equivalent for tax purposes), but these authorizations expired. This is the only combat zone designation or equivalent that has expired in the last 21+ years. However, these are not the only areas in the world qualifying for combat zone tax bennies. Other areas that are not formally designated as being combat zones also qualify if someone is deployed there performing support for combat zone operations. These areas are: Djibouti, Egypt, Israel, Jordan, Kyrgystan, the Mediterranean Sea east… Read more »
Damn. Sorry about the unbalanced bold tag above. Don’t have the permissions to edit, so I can’t fix it.
Correction to #84 above. Second “Qatar” in the last para should read “Saudi Arabia”.
What I have a problem with is a SGM wit only one combat tour somehow being awarded both a BSM and a CAB calling troops with multiple combat tours, injuries, and maybe a few tattoos unprofessional…not mentioning any names…
Hondo-in reference to your post 79, an ICM could be awarded for “direct engagement with the enemy” without meeting either the 30 consecutive days or 60 non-consecutive days requirement. I got one awarded that way for a soldier who ran three short convoys for my Brigade medical section in support of redeployment convoys from Kuwait last year who got a CAB for a firefight on his second mission.
Rechecked the reg and you’re 100% correct, 68W58. I was working from memory, and my memory that engagement plus MEDEVAC out prior to qual based on time was required. Reg specifically says that either engagement or MEDIVAC out alone is sufficient to qualify for the ACM or ICM, provided you were there performing official duties. Thanks for the correction.
Damn. 90 above was me.
I’ve got to figure out how to ensure this machine retains ID info for this site after I shut it down.
“The Bronze Star is the U.S. military’s fourth-highest individual decoration for bravery, heroism or meritorious service.” The Bronze Star has been abused since its inception or at least since Marshall retroactively approved them for all those who earned the CIB in WWII. It be came part of a default medal packet later for officers in Vietnam.
The USAF in particular has a reputation of abusing it. During Kosovo they were awarding it to ground crews in Italy who were never anywhere near a battlefield, caused a rightful stick then too!
If you want to fix this, make it only a valor and not a meritorious award.
Side note Spork, the Army has awarded 25 DSCs. I knew it was low but was not sure of exact number.
@1 Dell Taco- “If it doesn’t have the Combat V on it, it doesn’t mean jack to me.”
I called my “buddy” and mentioned that to him… he sent me his “Bronzie” without a V that isn’t “JACK SHIT” (your words)… he has a Bronzie with V as well along with a couple of SS (one downgraded from a DSC). This Bronzie was earned when he was the I&R platoon leader for the 14th Reg. Ranger School taught him well. FYI-I&R was the forerunner to LURPS. BTW- he fought TWO wars- real combat, not a 24 hour firefight or a snipe or two. His words!
Today’s generation of everyone getting a trophy for playing soccer has morphed to the military with everyone getting medals. Sickening.
I am redacting many items from phonies who will probably copy…
Section X General OrdersXXX
Headquarters 25th Infantry Division
27 August 1953
First LT XXXXXXX, XXXXXX, Infantry, United States Army. Lt. XXXX, a member of Headquarters Company 14th Infantry, is cited for meritorious service in connection with military operations against an armed enemy in Korea during the period 21 December 1952 to 5 August 1953. Due to the fluid tactical situation the Regiment was deployed over a widespread area on the main line of resistance, imposing innumerable problems of intelligence and reconnaissance. Lt. XXXXXX through his knowledge of communications, reconnaissance, tactical and technical operations, overcame all obstacles in performance of his duties in a highly commendable manner. He made numerous patrols into enemy-held territory, often times exposing himself to hazardous conditions in order to reconnoiter enemy disposition. His ability to interpret movements of the enemy, locate enemy mine fields, interrogate prisoners and apply his knowledge and experience to the situation, resulted in tactics that restricted the activities of the enemy. By his resourcefulness and consummate devotion to duty, Lt. XXXX has reflected great credit upon himself , his unit and the United States Army.
Entered Federal service from Wisconsin.
Yes Hondo you are correct, but I am saying that there were AF convoy units (Medium Truck Detachments) that were based in Kuwait. Like I said many of them died, alot of them recieved CABs and ICMs. Of course I’m not talking about desk jockies like myself.
[…] sent us a link yesterday to the Air Force Times story about the Bronze Star “winners” we talked about last week. Apparently the two female airmen have been getting harassed over the award; Stories about both […]
DJ (@94): As I’ve said repeatedly – I have no problem with anyone who served where actual hostilities occurred and earned the campaign medal getting a combat decoration; that’s what they’re designed to recognize. This includes folks who did the requisite number of days there on a temporary basis but were based elsewhere, or who did the requisite number of “in and out” trips performing official duties or operational support. If you qualified for the ACM or ICM, in my book it’s OK if you end up with a combat decoration.
But I have real heartburn seeing folks who never heard shots fired in anger get combat decorations – and seeing folks go home with CABs and peacetime only decorations like a MSM or Achievement Medal. Neither of the latter cases IMO passes the smell test. Both the MSM and (in the Army, anyway) the Achievement Medal are peacetime-only decorations that by reg and policy may only be given for noncombat service. And noncombat service just doesn’t include dodging bullets or shrapnel. (Commendation medals, by both reg and historical practice, can be and often are awarded for either combat or noncombat service.)
THE BRONZE STAR MEDAL REGARDLESS WEATHER ITS AWARDED WITH V-DEVICE,MERITORIOUS SERVICE, OR MERITORIOUS ACHIEVEMENT IS A COMBAT ONLY MEDAL!!! IT IS NOT A ‘YOU WERE THERE MEDAL IN A COMBAT ZONE’ THE LEADERSHIP ARE TOTALLY AT FAULT BECAUSE THE LEADERSHIP ARE NOT ‘IN COMBAT’ TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE!! THE LEADERSHIP DO NOT ENGAGE THE ENEMY TO WIN A WAR NOR ARE THEY RISKING THEIR PERSONAL LIVES IN THE FACE OF THE ENEMY TO PLACE VALUE ON THEIR OWN LIVES AND OTHERS IN COMBAT!! THEY ARE COMPLETELY AT FAULT FOR DISTORTING THE JUSTIFYING INTENT OF THIS COMBAT DECORATION !!! SOLDIERS NOT ONLY HAVE A DUTY TO QUESTION THE AWARDING OF THIS MEDAL BUT A MORAL RESPONSIBLY TO THEIR FELLOW SOLDIERS TO KEEP THIS MEDAL IN ITS PROPER PLACE OF AWARDS AN TO KEEP ITS MEANING OF VALUE IN A COMBAT ENGAGEMENT WITHIN A COMBAT ZONE !!!! PLEASE GO TO THE WEBSITE ‘THE HISTORY OF THE BRONZE STAR MEDAL ‘A SOLDIERS PERSPECTIVE.
My favorite part is the soccer mom comment.
My favorate part is, the soldier that sat behind a desk and received the Bronze Star and told the Soldiers risking their lives in direct combat {they just have to try harder to do their jobs if they want to earn a combat medal]!!!!!!!
The C.I.B. is a prized award among Infantrymen but is NOT a decoration for combat!!!!IT IS A QUALIFICATION BADGE for COMBAT its not based on what you do in combat!!! ITS BASED ON YOUR MOS ON WHAT YOU ARE !! THE COMBAT ACTIONS BADGE IS ALSO BASED THE SAME WAY !!! Its for all other soldiers of other MOS’s who qualify as being in combat that occurs {WITHIN } a combat zone!!