Oh, my! Elevating the tone of the discussion.
In case you think that Democrats are interested in having a discussion about solutions to the problems in this country, witness this from the DailyKos, written by some peawit douchenozzle who bravely calls him/herself “Troubadour”;
Yup, how do you have a rational discussion with a cretin like that?
Category: Liberals suck
…and, concerning the use and validity of slogans. My personal favorite is “Saddlebred trainers get more action!”
I used to own and train Saddlebreds, so I can tell you with complete confidence that slogan is factual.
Take that anyway you like.
🙂
Joe, the exceptionalism you refer to isn’t individual but situational. Probably the greatest difference between your and my father’s war (WWII) and the wars being fought now, is this: the WHOLE WORLD was involved in WWII. Every single person had a stake in the outcome, and knew it. Today, because of the current state of affairs,and the disconnect with the war on terror in some quarters, there is a sharp divide between the soldiers and those they are protecting.
Well Joe, I’ll admit that your early years free-climbing was indeed a dangerous thing to do.
The difference between you and most of us?
The mountain was not consciously hell-bent on killing you.
Joe….You are very “danderous”.indeed Now, Shut The fuck Up…sonny boy.
Oh my, Joey rides his bicycle really fast, woo-woo.
Oh, and Joey can’t find any exceptionalism in America? I strongly suggest you pack up and move, Joey boy, maybe to Kenya, or North Korea?
Well, that’s a new one for me. Someone who wants to equate voluntarily risking their life in a sport with military service.
Guess it takes all kinds.
Oh, and streetsweeper has a point, Joe. STFU.
Hey Hondo,
Here’s a clue, duh. I’ll quote from my previous post, which you obviously had trouble comprehending: ” I don’t for a second compare those sports with being in battle”. Get it now?
Because Joe knows all too well all those times the rocks shot back, and how he just quit one day and never went back.
Jesus, I can’t for one fucking second believe you would equate that with a combat veteran. Not even you’re that fucking stupid, Joe.
Oh wait–yes you are.
@57-Okay Joe–then why bring it up?
Sparky…Joe brought that up because I asked him to (post #44). I thought it would help to know something about his past, to see what his personal “yardstick” was, as far as things challenging and dangerous.
My grandfather’s saying was this: “We all measure others by our own yardstick.” Meaning, of course, that we allow our experiences to color our preceptions of others.
I look at it this way–has anyone pointed the open end of an AK at me and gone, “BANG!” in my life? Nope, but I know a few guys with CIB’s who wouldn’t want to trade places with me, nor I with them.
My issue with Joe is the fact that unlike he who can walk away from an activity anytime it starts getting scary or dangerous, we never had that option. We did it not for thrills or to impress the girls in the bar. We did it for a whole lot better reasons than an adrenaline rush.
Joe: was getting a drink of water and NHSparky replied (59) before I could.
Since you have problems figuring thing out for yourself, let me spell it out for you. I don’t care if you were asked directly. You didn’t have to provide an example. A simple “nothing as dangerous as military service” would have answered the question. Bringing up in this context unnecessarily is an implicitly comparing/equating the two, “disclaimer” notwithstanding. You’re using it to bolster your claim that you “understand” how military and vets feel on certain issues.
Clue for you, dipstick: you don’t.
After all: you’re the one who used unsourced Gingrich quotes (and what might well be a list of search terms designed to mislead Google that this site is liberal) in order to justify dipshit “Troubadour” and his idiotic tantrum above. How? By implicit comparison, numbnuts. Same thing you did when you unnecessarily related voluntary mountain climbing experiences above.
And that’s true even if I believed your disclaimer. I don’t.
Obviously, 2nd para above should read “. . . figuring things out for yourself . . . .” Ditto “Bringing it up in this context . . . .” in same para.
Guess you have to put up with the resident trolls to prove the validity of the original post. And they, bless their protected behinds, the ones WE secured for them, are too clueless to understand that truth.
Teehee.
Silly progs, libs, socialists, whatever they want to be called this week. ‘Cause, they can’t make up their collective minds/feelings about that either. Since what they want is more important than anything else. To them only. (And they wonder why the grown-ups treat them like spoiled infants.)
“What I do not agree with is the idea that when they return, they have some kind of special political status over and above that of a regular citizen”
Joe, you’re operating under the misconception that your agreement validates anything, is needed, respected, or desired.
It’s not. Read on….
“The Fury of the Legions”
“We had been told, on leaving our native soil, that we were going to defend the sacred rights conferred on us by so many of our citizens settled overseas, so many years of our presence, so many benefits brought by us to populations in need of our assistance and our civilization.
“We were able to verify that all this was true, and because it was true, we did not hesitate to shed our quota of blood, to sacrifice our youth and our hopes. We regretted nothing, but whereas we over here are inspired by this frame of mind, I am told that in Rome factions and conspiracies are rife, that treachery flourishes, and that many people in their uncertainty and confusion lend a ready ear to the dire temptations of relinquishment and even to vilify our actions.
“I cannot believe that all this is true, and yet recent wars have shown how pernicious such a state of mind could be and to where it could lead.
“Make haste to reassure us, I beg you, and tell us that our fellow citizens understand us, support us, and protect us as we ourselves are protecting the glory of the Empire.
“If it should be otherwise, if we should have to leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then beware the fury of the Legions.”
Centurion Marcus Flavinius, Second Cohort, Augusta Legion to his cousin Tertullus in Rome.
It misspelled loathesome.
Joe- I say this without embellishment or malice, but more than any other commenter, TAH owes you a huge check. No matter what you write, it brings out our commenters. It’s astonishing to me. So, while I might disagree with 95% of what you write, I give you an honest thanks.
Jacobite–were we more like Heinlein’s ideal in that service did confer citizenship. Only those who have served and sacrificed should be allowed to make the decisions that affect us.
And Joe–I don’t necessarily mean military service, but it certainly wouldn’t hurt.
Good quote, Jacobite. Unfortunately, it attempts to explain a concept that IMO ‘lil Joey is simply can’t understand.
It’s been my experience that people either “get” why Soldiers (and Sailors, Airmen, and Marines) do what we do without explanation – or they’re incapable of understanding. Joey here seems to be firmly in the latter camp.
Dear Kos Kiddies: The feeling’s mutual.
It’s a damned shame that the moonbats on that site are allowed to vote…and breed.
NHS,
I don’t do much climbing any more, but if you’re half way up a 1,000 foot wall and a storm moves in, you cannot “walk away from an activity anytime it starts getting scary or dangerous..” as you said. It’s not combat, no one was shooting at me, but if I had made a mistake I would have been just as dead as if they were shooting at me.
TSO and Jonn,
Well, I hope they buy something while they’re dropping by…..
So, Joe, were you climbing that wall for yourself, or were you climbing it for the guy to your left and right?
Fuck off.
Well, Anon, whoever you are, in a sense I was climbing it for both me and my partner. Our fates were intertwined, either we both got off the wall or neither of us did. It’s a pretty intense relationship you have with a partner. You have to have total trust. People weren’t shooting at us, but we definitely relied on each other.
Nice talking to you too….
@#74, but, the main point is, you didn’t have to go up that mountain. The only thing that happened was you got a stiffy from climbing up and climbing down, nothing bad could happen to the country if you weren’t there.
When the PEOPLE finally throw the Top 2% money earners in prison for ripping off our country for years, and reinvest that money in our childrens future, we might finally be free from republican hypocracy. Just think, the government will be controled by the ones who care about their neighbors, while the elitists’ plans of world domination can sound like slaves bad-mouthing each other, from behind bars,deciding who has to carry the water for the daily chain gang.
Yeah, Wannabe here, comes from Colorado where they burn town halls. But we’re the criminals.
@76 If your plan for our country is to throw business people in jail and burn down city halls, you can just take your “care about your neighbors” with you when you leave.
Preferably to some already established third world sh*thole.
Tell ya what WTF, lets throw in jail all the idiotic students in default on their student loans as well. That’s most often a fraudulent debt burden placed on the American Taxpayer as well. Let’s also jail all the nimrods who enabled them on their brainless journey. Accessories don’t ya know.
Give me time my friend and I can figure out how to honestly add to the corrections system burden like you wouldn’t believe.
Joe: UpNorth is correct. When climbing for sport, you were climbing for yourself – not for anyone else. Not for any greater purpose, not in service of others, not because you needed to make that climb to protect anything or anybody. You were climbing because you liked the “rush” it gave you. Period. Ditto for your climbing buddies.
You were literally risking your lives for no other reason than to get “thrills”. Whoopee. I bet you all feel sooooo proud.
I’m certain the moron riding his superbike at 100+MPH on a crowded highway is proud of his “mad skilz” and gets a rush, too.
In contrast, numbnuts, men and women in uniform take risks for good reason. And that reason ain’t “thrills” – though some aspects of military service can indeed yield the proverbial “rush”. No, they take those risks because those risks are necessary, and it’s their freaking duty to take them. That’s what they signed up for.
I wouldn’t expect you to understand. It’s been my experience that self-centered and self-righteous pricks like yourself are incapable of understanding why anyone would willingly do something disagreeable just because it was the right thing to do, was part of their job, or was necessary to protect others. Duty is a concept that type simply doesn’t “get”.
You’ve proven you don’t “get it” either, Joe. Just STFU and quit making a fool out of yourself.
The acronym his name forms – WTF – aptly describes my reaction to comment #76. I simply have a hard time believing that there exist people that deluded and/or naive (or that stupid) who are allowed to do anything without adult supervision.
Hondo, unfortunately I’ve found the species to be entirely to common these days. Far more prevelant than I ever would have thought possible.
“God must love fools, for he made so many of them.”
Just another one of the many reasons I’m a non-believer. 😉
Hey Jonn,
You’re painting Colorado with a pretty broad brush. There are 5 million of us here, and most of us don’t burn down town halls.
I’ll throw this out there in response to Hondo and many others who drape themselves in the flag anytime someone doesn’t agree with them. From enlistees I’ve met over many years, many of them join not because of high ideals, but for the most mundane of reasons – they need a job when jobs good paying jobs are scarce. Were all of you guys motivated by the highest of ideals (as Hondo states: duty, doing the right thing, patriotism) when you enlisted, or did you grow to be a patriot (and a conservative) as you were in boot camp? in training, in the field? in battle? after retiring from the service? Was it an “Aha!” kind of experience, or a gradual realization? Was it innate to you, or learned? I ask this because most 18 year olds I have met do not have the same burning patriotism/conservatism that I have experienced here.
So if there are 5 million of you in the state, and one of you decided to burn down a town hall, you couldn’t muster up a dozen or so to tackle them before they burned one of your landmarks?
Let’s not worry about patriotism from the conservatives, hmmm? How about just a little civic duty from the liberals?
Well a couple of things Joe.
First, experiencing your suedo-personality here I doubt seriously you have been surrounded by a very large percentage of enlistees, certainly not from any diverse demographic sampling. I further doubt someone such as you would draw many of the traditionally patriotic enlistees to yourself via the ‘vibe’ we all pick up off strangers when we meet or brush elbows, thereby further limiting the scope of your experience.
Second, I joined at age 17, and it was ENTIRELY for patriotic reasons. The VAST majority of soldiers I had the privilege to meet in my 20+ years of service, OVERWHELMINGLY joined on patriotic grounds. I doubt seriously you have met or interacted in a meaningful way with a fraction of the young soldiers that I have.
Experience and perspective. Those with lengthy military careers generally have both in abundance. Your notions show a predictable lack of both on this subject.
I’m sure we all have significant “experience and perspective” in our respective spheres. Military people are not unique in that regard.
Joe. I’ll be absolutely honest. I joined for the GI Bill. And then I found my duty, my honor, my pride. I come from a military family, and you know, I never gave it much though how much they themselves sacrificed until it came time for me to do the same.
Thank you Joshua for giving a straightforward answer to a sincere question.
Don’t get me wrong, there was still that sense of patriotism when I joined. But it matured and fully blossomed when I realized what I was actually doing with my life.
“I’m sure we all have significant “experience and perspective” in our respective spheres. Military people are not unique in that regard.”
Yes Joe, we do, but you asked a question specifically within the military “sphere.” I wouldn’t pretend I know enough to tell you the best way to climb a rock, it would be refreshing if you could admit your experience with enlistees doesn’t match other’s greater experience on this point.
I never said I did that I remember. But for the record, “my experience with enlistees doesn’t match other’s greater experience on this point”.
Joey, I do believe you’re seeking moral equivalency, not really trying to delve into why people serve. Hence, the “From enlistees I’ve met over many years, many of them join not because of high ideals, but for the most mundane of reasons”. I doubt you know that many enlistees, or if you do, that you can understand why they enlist, the statement above confirms that.
I don’t give a good goddam if a person joined for benefits, patritotism, hubris, or so they could bang a leg’s girlfriend every other Sunday, the fact remains that they were willing to lay their lives on the line defending your right to be an assclown in order to achieve that goal.
You’ll just never understand.
“You’ll just never understand.”
And, to think we went through 95 comments to get to that nugget of truth. Thanks, Anon, four words sum up Joey just perfectly. It’s been said many times, many ways, wait, that could be lyrics in a song…Never mind.