Stop-Loss in the Age of Obama
Sporkmaster reminded me in an email about our newest coward, Victor Agosto, a specialist in the 53rd ESB at Fort Hood, Texas, a place I know too well. Well, Victor is understandably upset that, while looking forward to his discharge from active duty in August, he was notified that he was stop-lossed and would have to pull an extra few months in Iraq Afghanistan instead.
Oh, um, Victor is also a member of the IVAW, did I mention that? Well, he is. His membership hasn’t quite made him the babe magnet he’d hoped, however. Until a couple of hippie babes drove from Fort Worth to see him;
Love the Che T-shirt, hon. It really shows off your…um….form.
Well, Victor wasn’t content just refusing to go to Iraq, he decided to put the counseling form from his commander on the internet – that ought to make his commander more understanding, shouldn’t it?
I guess Victor didn’t take into consideration that even if he were discharged from active duty, he still has a few more years of commitment to serve his country, that the Army didn’t really extend his contract, just his active duty time – and they still might by tossing his ass in the slammer for a year or so. Putting his counseling record online probably makes that inevitable.
Victor has been hanging out at the IVAW coffee house, Under The Hood with his new girlfriends, and who can blame with those two hotties. Courage to Resist, who has named Victor their coward of the month, tells us what it’s like to talk with Victor;
Victor doesn’t talk a lot, but when he does he reveals a resolve and intelligence that seems far older than his 23 years.
I hope someone mopped up the slobber on the floor before someone else slips and falls. They go on to describe the interior of the coffee house;
A large world map featuring U.S. interventions takes up one wall. The first interventions posted were Iraq and Afghanistan. Gradually, more countries and dates have been added: Chile, 1973, the CIA-backed military coup; Guatemala, 1954, the Marine invasion; Iran, 1953, the CIA-backed overthrow of the democratic government.
I hope they put up the US invasion of Quebec in 1775, after all, it looks like Victor’s new girlfriends are veterans of that engagement.
But, I wonder how the Left feels that their new President is continuing the Bush policy of stop-loss. That cold, hard slap of reality again.
Category: Politics
MikeDee: The issue is this: If you want to protest, etc.; that’s fine, however you either do it before, or after, you finish your obligation. Doing it while you are in and scheduled for deployment only makes you look very foolish and downright cowardly. If a person’s conscience troubles them enough to not fulfill their responsibilities, then they shouldn’t have signed up to begin with, especially in wartime.
A person that doesn’t have the honor to complete their obligation is someone I couldn’t count on whether in the military, or in civilian life. Trust is something that has to be earned and once lost, is very hard to get back. Any organization that helps, encourages, or enables, people to shirk their responsibilities, or defy lawful orders (yeah, his was a lawful order) is just as untrustworthy. Calling it courage, is only said to make you feel better about yourself and doesn’t cover the truth that it is actually cowardice.
Everyone that supports that decision, like the two old biities in the picture, and fills that person’s head full of crap aren’t going to be the ones doing time in the stockade, or around 10 or 20 years down the line when that person finally has to come to grips with a decision that affects employment, etc. Will an employer feel he can trust someone that couldn’t finish his obligations before, especially i the person doing the hiring is a Vet? Let’s not even get into companies that have government contracts, because there are more than you think. That is what awaits them, Victor now, too.
So, you sit up there and encourage and support this all you want, because it doesn’t affect you. However, it makes you look just as cowardly.
OldTrooper:
I can understand and even agree with your argument to some extent, however, what you are basically saying is that a person does not have the right or ability to adapt their belief system once they are under contract.
To be perfectly honest with you I don’t agree with Victors methods. However, I know him personally and serve with him currently, and I respect him a great deal, both before and after I heard about his current issue with the deployment.
If Victor were truly a coward, he would have simply gone AWOL. He is making a conscience decision to use this issue to make a political statement and is willing to accept the concequences for it. That is not cowardice.
You made my point for me: The military is no place to make a political statement, that has been my argument from the beginning. If, when he gets done with his service, he wants to protest, scream, holler, jump around, etc.; fine, but not while you are in. The is no room for political statements/actions in the military. That’s for the halls of congress.
I am done with this post. The only value of yours I ask you to bend is, and forgive me if my neo-con nutcase stereotype is inaccurate, to at least consider using birth control. Lots and lots of birth control. I hear bleach works well. Of course you could always just have someone kick your sister/cousin in the jaw then you (and I) wouldn’t have to worry about you procreating. Toodles!
Jonn wrote: Ah, so I mistakenly thought you wanted to engage us on the issues and when I did, you attempt to make redneck jokes. SO I guess we know why you reallt came here, don’t we?
OldTimer:
I don’t neccessarily agree. If I felt strongly enough about an issue pertaining to my service I would follow my value system, no matter what the popular opinion was. Regardless of whether or not you believe there is no place for it, it exists and can’t be ignored.
I would actually agree with you if the case was that Victor had enlisted with his current beliefs as strong as they are and hadn’t already deployed. This isn’t the case, he HAS deployed and obviously feels strong enough about the issue to do what he is doing.
Regardless of whether you agree with the war or not, or agree with his actions, the simplest thing for him to do would have been to go AWOL and slink off into the night. He didn’t, and is facing the concequences like a man. THAT is commendable.
lol. I needed this. I see why you have to make up funny names to post with. if you take an oath to uphold the laws of the U.S. (which include the treaties we’re signed on to) than how you can participate in wars & occupations that violate those laws?
What a jag-off organization MFSO is – talking points (cause all dope smoking dirty hippies can’t thing for themselves) for May – The wars in Afghanistan and Iraq are denying the Iraq and Afghan people the ability to determine their own future. The best way for Congress and the President to uphold our country’s values and honor our troops’ commitment and sacrifice is to bring the troops home now and let the Iraqi and the Afghan people decide their own course.
Kinda like how President Clinton let the Tutsis and Hutu’s work it out in Rowanda? Moron.
1,000,000 Iraqis dead? Really David Dixon? I think your group really ought to check their numbers, at least for Iraqi dead. The Lancet study is really not a reliable source, and your web site multiplies the figures in the Lancet Study by a factor of 10.
MikeDee, so it’s ok to enlist(volunteer), then when you find that further obeying the orders of those appointed over you becomes inconvenient, it’s ok to bug out? Cuz that’s what Victor’s doing.
OH, and Mr.s Dixon, what does your organization need with a National Organizer, you’ve got one in the White House, you know, Obama’s place.
UpNorth if you are going to put words in my mouth I’m not going to bother trying to have a civilized discussion with you.
Hey lets keep the dialogue going this started last night and is still going. Let me throw my two cents in (ok with inflation its three cents). We talk about morals and legal versus illegal orders, how about DUTY! As a soldier/ marine, airman and or sailor, we/ you have a DUTY ( and I feel a moral duty) to your fellows to fulfill your obligation, especially if your an NCO/ OFFICER. Simply because if you don’t, someone else has too. You put another individual in harms way, if your an NCO OR OFFICER you put your troops in danger, by not being there for them, surely I don’t need to explain this to any of you that been around for a while.
Just fulfill your contracts/ obligation/ duties, and go your own way. Please believe me I would love to take one of you alls place. Not to much need for a broken old (51yrs) tanker.
I’m a retired Nasty Girl (retired reserve) that tried to get back in, when my old unit got moblized for OIF and tried again when old unit got moblizied for OEF. What sux is Uncle Sam can call me back at HIS discretion but I couldn’t go back volunterially (sorry about spelling). Thanks for your service and time. God bless our Troops and God speed. Armor Up!
Mike
He signed up in a time of war to serve the needs of the military. America called upon him to do his duty. They are not asking him to go an exterminate towns to the last man woman and child. Not to indescribably kill or face suicide missions that would leave him crippled and wounded at best. He is no different from the police officers that abandoned their posts when Katrina hit.
So he has deployed once? So what? My next door neighbor before he moved has deployed THREE times in a 6 year period. Is he happy about it? No, but he did it because that is what he signed up for. There was no draft or forced conscription. He say money and free education with the hopes that he will have a easy job bar hopping every weekend. He is a fraud.
Hardly, because of his actions even if they do not send him, he is robbing time from someone else who will most likely replace him. Imagine having two our more deployments done and being told that you have to go again because someone got cold feet. Did that ever cross your mind at all?
I cannot wait to see a conflict that you support where people try to desert using the same logic.
Also since the people he likes to hang around seem to like Che and communism, I wonder what they would think of how Soviet Russia handled deserters.
http://www.ww2f.com/wwii-general/10730-stalins-order-227-a.html
Morning to all you early birds. Debbie good to hear from you. I jumped over and read your blog, found it interesting ,no really! I don’t agree with all you say but don’t disagree either with everything you say. I know that sounds pretty wishy washy but I learned that more times than not its best to here both sides of an argument. The opinion I stated earlier still stands. My question is simply this. What was/is the so called UNLAWFUL order? The order to deploy or what. A soldier doesn’t get to pick the fights very often thats usually left up to the politicians. Which you do say. gotta go for now. God bless our troops.
I didn’t put words in your mouth, Mike. Just asking a question, which you apparently don’t want to or can’t answer. The question remains, but I won’t type it again.
Hi ssgDIRTYAL,
I think my post was disappeared, so I wrote a response on my own blog and you can read it there (click on my name – it is linked).
Please leave your comments on my blog about this issue, but FYI if I get anything the likes of GI Jane, it will be removed. (My blog = My rules)
I posted there too, if you do not mind.
Also, I like penis. Lots and lots of penis. Preferably large and black.
Really? I’m more of a chorizo guy…mmm soft latinos..
Debbie, you cherry pick one comment, that the wars “might” be unconstitutional, and parse that into validating Agosto’s stand? When one court of competent jurisdiction makes that determination, and it survives review by the SCOTUS, he might have an argument. Until then, he doesn’t.
Great, seems someone went joyriding with my log in name.
Before I joined the Army, I trusted the government to only send me to war if it was absolutely necessary. After two years in the Army, I realized that joining was the biggest mistake of my life. I have realized that our government is far more responsive to the needs of corporate America than to the needs of the American people as a whole. These wars threaten both the physical and fiscal security of our nation. They result in the needless deaths of American troops and Iraqi civilians.
Some of you have talked about “duty.” I am a human being first and a soldier second. It is my duty as a human being to listen to follow my conscience.
human being to follow my conscience.*
Coward to run away from your Brothers in Arms
You think your only one how joined up to find out that the army is not for them? Most people just let their contract expire, grab their GI bill and move on with there lives.
There is always going to be corruption and mismanagement. The disaster in LA was a perfect example. But did the corruption there mean that the police that left their posts justified?
So deserting will some how improve it? Your going to Afghanistan, a country that even Wadata says had a direct connection to 9/11. Also the majority of the deaths in population in Iraq and Afghanistan have not been by us. Also how many times did you go out while you where in Iraq?
“Debbie Clark Says:
May 20th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
Hi ssgDIRTYAL,
Please leave your comments on my blog about this issue, but FYI if I get anything the likes of GI Jane, it will be removed. (My blog = My rules)”
Make sure you don’t visit my blog either, sweetpea.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com
MY BLOG MY RULES. Howdya like me now?
Victor, I will not disrespect you, I would never call anyone thats been to a Combat zone a coward (even if you never lift the wire?). I know morters and rockets can fly over said wire.I just have problem w/ people who all of a sudden start MORAL grandstanding. I will say this you seem to be willing to take your medicine. So good luck w/ that. If I may I’d like to share a little story. One of my best friends and Club Brother’s (we’re in a VETS m/c), son was A Marine. Well my BRO’S son was in Fallujah, 2nd fight I believe. Well his best friend pretty much got vaporized right in front of him. Please no disrespect intended, but thats about what happened. My BRO’S son was devastaded. He made it home, wasn’t home for too long before he got more redeployment orders, he then went AWOL. He eventually turned his self in after much urging from from family and friends. Now for my point. I could never call my friend’s son a coward, not with out putting myself in his position. If your scared say your sacred, I know I would be, this is my little MORAL compass. ” There is no GREATTER LOVE than for a man to lay down his life for another.” Thats my DUTY. This Memorial Day I pray for our troops and ask Gods blessings on them> Thank you all for your service and thanks too all who have made the ULTIMATE SACRIFICE.
GI Jane, I think you win the prize hands-down for being the most obnoxious person here, however, my previous statement was not intended to be a personal insult, but a reference to the extreme vulgarity of your writing. You are welcome to post on my blog, but if you post any vulgarity, it will be removed. I’m not sure if you have the intelligence to write anything without vulgarity, so that will probably keep you away anyway.
And if I get any more neurotic complaints about the so-call “breast exposure” on my blog being dirty, which is my grown, married daughter breastfeeding her son (something I’m sure you don’t know anything about), I may invite my daughter to respond personally. You would not want to be subjected to that…
Ok, whomever the childish fuck was that put a post up in my name, you have just crossed a line that really wasn’t necessary for you to do. I surmise that you are either still in highschool, or a college punk that needs an ass whoopin. I would like to assist you in that, however, because I know that you have no aspirations to get out from under your momma’s skirt, so you resort to using someone elses identity, I figure you will eventually get what’s coming to you. Probably not from me (which I really would like), but maybe from someone that won’t show the restraint that I would.
Good luck in hiding behind your betters in order to try and be a grown up.
Thanks for bringing that to my attention, OldTrooper. I guess he did it to a few others, too. It was none other than Victor Agosto himself. Notice the IP Addresses.
Someone from the IVAW using other folks’ screen names? Say it ain’t so Jonn. What a Turd!!!
Some of you have talked about “duty.” I am a human being first and a soldier second. It is my duty as a human being to listen to follow my conscience.
A duty dodged is like a debt unpaid; it is only deferred, and we must come back and settle the account at last.
Your definition of duty seems a bit self serving, but then again, I suppose that was to be expected of someone who clearly thinks that changing the parameters of their oath can be done at will. I wish you the best in the future…you’re going to need it.
Thanks for checking into that, Jonn. I guess I was wrong in my assessment of mr. Agosto in that I thought he was mature enough to make and defend his decision as an adult. I’m glad, then, that he has chosen the path he is currently on, since I do not want someone as juvenile and immature watching the back of someone who needs to count on him. Of course, he has proven, already, that he can’t be counted on.
Just another reason to think his motives are suspect. I figured it was reality check that was causing all the trouble. But with this, something tells me we will not be hearing from victor again.
I realize I’m late to this party but I have a question. I’ve been hearing for years now that the war in Iraq was illegal, now I’m reading that OEF is illegal too. Just who the heck decided this? Who do we answer to that says this war is illegal? I say this war because it’s really only one war. The GWOT. Al Qaeda attacked us and were sheltered by the Taliban. Classic case for war. Whether you were for or against Iraq, the fact is that Saddam had numerous chances to comply with UN directives and he didn’t. The world will not act without U.S. leadership. Whether going in was smart or not is for historians to decide but how do some people keep making that leap to illegality?
If I wanted to insult, mock, or call you names, I would do so. I don’t feel the need to hide behind a fake screen names. I have better things to do with my time.
As for the IP addresses: I’m not sure about how IP addresses are generated, but I think that if someone else is using the same wireless router as me, they would have the same IP address. Under the Hood offers free wireless access if you ever want to visit us in Killeen.
It would have also have been from the same computer too. So unless someone is following the exact same websites as you from the exact same computer. Yea.
Also the fact that your IVAW that seems to have a habit of lying does not bold well for us to believe you.
Jonn, why not just block that IP address? Seems the way to go, then we wouldn’t have the cockroaches infesting the site.
No need to believe me, Sporkmaster. I’ve been up front with everyone, including the Army. I have no reason to lie to you. I won’t be posting here anymore. Have a nice life 😀
Ok, Victor, I’ll bite. Does anyone else have access to your computer? If they do, then that might give you plausible deniability. And, if they do, then maybe you should secure it better. However, if no one else has access to it, that would make it more difficult to believe.
The IVAW upfront? That is a joke, and no I am sure that you will back for more trolling.
They are like crackheads, Spork, they can’t help themselves. Trolling apparently gives their life meaning.
Wow, you people really all give Soldiers a bad name. I served with Victor in Iraq, he is a good guy. You people need to get a life and get off Vic. Stay in your line, if you even have one. You sound like some washed up trailer trash.
Wow! I guess we were wrong, guys!
Sorry, SGT.
Where did you serve, high-speed.
No he is not, he walked away from his obligation. So in Iraq you did what? I served(ing) in Iraq too so what is your point? Man up and go to Afghanistan.
found some interesting stuff on him. Seems this is a blog from a guy in his unit.
http://www.armymyspace.com/
So this guy in my unit, while at first looked like he had some kind of plan, going the contentious objector route, opted instead to take the fools route. I had a talk or two with him, asking him what his plan of attack was going to be, do you have a back up plan and so on. To me a good leader will do his best to help even if that leader doesn’t agree with the choice being made by the soldier!! At some point his plan was to just disobey any and every order given to him!! During a process we all have to go through before we can get a green light to go, he was told by our First Sergeant to get some paperwork he needed to complete this process, his response was a firm ” NO!” I was shocked when I heard it the first time and by the third go around I was concerned my First Sergeants was going to go into a blind rage and choke this guy out.
Also a new video on youtube.
in response to greg foster’s post
# 25Greg Foster Says: May 18th, 2009 at 10:54 pm
agosto has not gone to “war”, he has simply deployed to a war zone area like most non-combat troops. he was never in direct or indirect danger. i served in the same company as him and saw him most days. he played video games, did PT, e-mail and called home, and went to work. he, like myself, is a “signal donkey” we support those that fight and support the fighter with voice and data communications. very few personnel from our unit spent time outside the large bases. the most he came to losing his life is when he decided to stop showering on a regular basis and a soldier threatened to pummel him and spray him down with lisol if he did not shower immediately. the most of “war” he ever saw was the locals that worked on the base. agosto and travis are both dimwitted idiots, brainwashed by the activists at the under the hood cafe.
[OldTrooper: Victor has been to “war”. He has already deployed to Iraq. Do you really think a person can make a decision that effects them for the next 8 years and really know enough about that decision? Of course not.]
as for standing for our beliefs. that is fine, but in the military, you swallow your beliefs like everyone else. you digest them into an unrecongizable, uniform turd, and crap out the ARMY beliefs as your own until the day comes when you no longer serve in the military and you can begin to vommit out all your own beliefs once again.
[If you believe in Democracy, you should believe that all of us have the responsibility to stand up for what we believe is right. But that doesn’t fit in with your brand of flag waving. Fine.]
sgt. lomeli 57th ESB (not 53rd)
Leave Victor alone, he’s a little frickin’ slow… joined-up during a war, saw a lot of guys gettin’ shot up on the news before, had a lot of guys to to Iraq and Afghanistan during his time in, doesn’t want to waste time before he can get out and smoke blunts all day, and still can’t figure out that he’s a soldier and supposed to go fight. Not only did he ride the short bus, they kicked him off because he could work sitting in a seat.
agosto and travis. i wish them well, i wish them happines, but most of all i wish they had joined the peace corps. maybe then they be the happiest turds alive. plus they wouldn’t have landed in jail or fort hood. good life and great days guys hope all is merry with you two’s. not. losers and cowards. have fun.