Congress to Pentagon; Stop the uniform madness
Mark sends us a link to Military Times which reports that the new defense authorization bill for 2014 contains a paragraph which addresses the utility uniform differences between the services, that they should all stop wasting billions of dollars to design and then scrap their forays into martial fashion;
The compromise defense authorization bill for 2014 includes a provision that directs the Defense Department to “to adopt and field a common combat and camouflage utility uniform, or family of uniforms, for specific combat environments, to be used by all members of the armed forces.”
And if that becomes law, as appears likely, it would change the future image of the joint force.
For years, lawmakers have been annoyed by the military services’ increasingly elaborate wardrobe of camouflage variants designed for the same forward-deployed environments. Over the past decade, the four services have developed at least seven new combat utility uniforms, each with its own unique design.
Yeah, I don’t get it, either. Back in my day, sonny, the Ranger Battalions wore camouflaged jungle fatigues and the 82d had them for a field-only uniform. For that reason, seeing a clerk in camouflage is strange and out of sorts. Maternity BDUs had the same effect on me. So having the Navy and the Air Force in their completely worthless camouflage seems even more odd. And of course, there are the Marines and their MARPATs;
This year, the Joint Staff’s top enlisted adviser, Marine Sgt. Maj. Bryan Battaglia, said the mix of uniforms makes the U.S. military look like a “Baskin-Robbins” and signaled his support for a common uniform.
But Marine Corps Commandant Gen. James Amos recently said preserving the Corps’ MARPAT pattern is a top priority and declared that his service will stick to it “like a hobo to a ham sandwich.”
Yeah, that’s helpful. I’m glad that Amos finally found something he can get adamant about, but it’s unfortunate that the something is fashion.
Category: Air Force, Marine Corps, Military issues, Navy
I’m torn, honest. MARPAT is a fantastic looking pattern (Woodland looks awesome), but at the same time, Multicam really is neat.
To be honest, I’ve gotta side with the higher-ups here: we need a standard family of uniforms for the US military to represent itself with. Like England’s MTP series, we need something that screams to anyone who sees it, “they’re Americans!”, not “they’re the Army, and they’re the Marines!” Kinda the wrong image for “one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all”.
But But But we all want to look cool and want to parade around looking like killers. How are we supposed to do that in a working uniform? (non tactical)
When the Navy sticks its feet in the sand, it wears DCUs or MARPAT. When the Air Force actually goes outside the wire they wear Multicam or ACUs. Just have the two non-ground services wear their brother’s uniforms full time. Problem solved. We all wore BDUs (with minor service-related modifications) for 20 something years without complaints.
Everyone always complains about the Navy cammies being useless but they do exactly what they were intended to do and save money because they replaced several uniforms. They were made to hide oil stains and do that fairly well. The Marine uniforms are also produced for much less money than the equivalent Army and airforce uniforms. With buttons and not so much velcro they are also much more “tactical” and user serviceable. The patterns themselves I could care less about.The army uniforms are terrible with all the velcro. I have to side with Amos on this one.
“I’m glad that Amos finally found something he can get adamant about, but it’s unfortunate that the something is fashion.”
Well, what else could be expected from the The Ball Bearing BAM, REMFyst Pogue and Knee Padded Pleasure Giver of DC?
Amos picked as Commandant, and Mattis pushed out to pasture.
End Times, people. Sure sign of same, right the hell there.
BREAK
We do have a serious problem, though. Other than the Corps, the various branches have proven themselves rather incompetent in field uniform decisions over the last batch of tries.
OK, apparently I am old…. I started out with the old green fatigue uniform and at least in my experience, 95% of non-deployed uniform usage could easily be done without the need for camo. Not sure what camo of any pattern costs now, but I remember they were about 3X the cost of fatigues in the early ’80s… would be a hell of a lot cheaper for troops to replace, and they could always be issued camo as needed for
deployments (like jungle fatigues in the ’60s). How much would THAT save the government?
David: I’ve made the same point elsewhere.
The old “pickle suit” had its drawbacks. But it was IMO a helluva good garrison uniform. And the wash-and-wear version was damn easy for the troops to take care of.
@ #3 Concur.
It was pretty nice in the early 80’s (give or take a few years) when the dress shirt was the same design among the Army, USAF, and the Marines, just different colors. And we all wore green fatigues, with some variation on color and placement of name tapes and such. I was actually very proud that the folks who made such decisions had made that one.
It seems like there are umpteen much more important things to be pondered by the brass than this. Again. Some more.
OWB: the problem is that it isn’t the brass pondering the issue. Congress had to step in and provide our leadership some adult guidance – e.g, tell them, “Quit arguing and cooperate; stop wasting time and money.”
When freaking Congress is the entity providing the adult leadership, things are truly FUBAR.
Maybe Congress could also retire any General that cannot b bench-press 225.
Balance the budget!
@10 Ain’t that the truth! Uniform policy might seem like a silly thing to have to discuss at such high levels, but the Army’s transition from BDUs to ACUs cost them about $5 billion for a uniform that scored lowest on all testing criteria. It’s too bad Congress wasn’t there to nip that in the bud, but at least they’re finally doing something on this subject. I imagine the blue Navy cam and the Air Force tiger trips also cost a fair amount to implement.
The only thing that worries me about the differences in Cammies is that there is, just like any other DOD specific contract, room for fraud.
I could care less about services having different working uniforms. The DRESS uniforms are what costs the troops an arm and a leg.
We aren’t going to dress everyone in a olive drab suit,a khaki shirt/tie with branch of service on a tag are we?
Congress needs to worry about controlling immigration, getting rid of SNAP fraud and lower the debt, not making the services look like each other when shooting bad guys.
Can the average civilian or retired Chief Petty Officer who has been retired since 1981 tell the difference between the USMC and USA camo
uniforms? I know I can’t.
When I was aboard ships, I had a terrible time with stowage of uniforms and that was with just a normal seabag. Hate to have to find space for all the different camo, coveralls, etc now a days.
What the hell was wrong with a chambray shirt and dungarees?
@16 After the Marines went to MARPAT in 2002 (which probably was an improvement over BDUs), everyone else got jealous and started uniform programs that had less and less to do with actual camoflage or functionality and more to do with keeping up with the Joneses. The Air Force has had 3 dress uniforms in 20 years with two others proposed but thankfully cancelled.
ex PH2 I WAS GOING TO SAY THE SAME THING! the blue cammies look ridiculous and just one more thing to tease sailors about.
That being said, we were watching NCIS and my husband said- now, what uniform is that? It was the dungarees and when he asked why did they do away w them, my 10 year old said because they look like prisoners… lol
Classic military mass punishment.
Marines take the initiative and responsibility invest in something superior while getting scrap funding to do so. Then the butt hurt begins and hell no, how dare that branch we constantly push for to be dissolved show us up. Throws money to show up service which always has budget issues and shitty everything but fails miserably because results have become secondary institutionally.
The worst part about this is the fucking cost of these uniforms which are expensive as shit with troops having to pay for them. One pair issued was a joke. If everything was issued I don’t think marines would give two shuts about whatever uniform is required. Instead it’s a huge burden and hassle for the digital and brown boot switch over. Pogs snatch everything up to look stupid while grunts get yelled at because they aren’t all wearing the same color boots.
I liked bdus
@18 Sometimes we felt like prisoners…
Aquaflage should have never happened. Not only was it a boondoggle, it’s been proven that the uniform is a hazard to the sailor and never should been allowed on a warship.
Between 1941 and 1962 the Army, USMC and even the Navy had their own versions of Utility uniforms(HBT vs. P41 & P44), field/work boots and even headgear. It was McNamara who stopped that.
Shipwreck was the coolest G.I.Joe…rocked the dungarees, tats, beard, & white pixie cover.
@3 TMB, b-b-but the modern military is all about ME dammit! To hell with function, give me some form! Make me look cooler than the other guy.
Back when the Army phased out the BDU/DCU combo for the ACU I was a junior Soldier and thought it was awesome. No more boot shine, no more endless Thursday-night iron-and-starch fests in preparation for Friday BDU inspection.
Downrange I quickly realized that the ACU 1. didn’t stand up to the rigors of sitting at a desk, let alone climbing rocks in the Hindu Kush and 2. didn’t universally camouflage you anywhere except on a floral print couch or in the crushed gravel on a FOB. It was an ill conceived uniform developed in haste to compete with MARPAT and make the Army brass feel better about themselves.
In both form and function it was awful. We quickly reverted to the DCU whenever we went out in sector… away from the watchful eyes of the Sergeant Major.
I was a newly minted E4 when I had the above realization, its about time Congress finally figured it out.
What I wouldn’t give to go back to Class Bs and BDUs. Starching and pressing almost daily, boots and low quarters you can see your reflection in. Soldiers really taking pride in their appearance.
Now, any idiot can throw on the utility uniform and look just as good (or bad) as the guy who spends hours burning strings and keeping his boots clean. And before you say anything, yeah I know any idiot can also spend 4 hours on his boot shine and look stellar, that doesn’t make him a better Soldier and I get that. But I think its a good general indicator of “give-a-shit” which is hugely important.
I’ll take a hard working idiot over a lazy genius any day.
Maybe everyone should just run over to the fabric store, get a pants and hunting shirt pattern, buy some spray painted cotton duck fabric, and make their own fatigues.
Personally, I liked my own invention for Star Trek conventions: black Eisenhower jacket with a color block for the division; white or black turtleneck or V-necked Tee; black cargo pants; black surplus paratroopers’ boots. It was simple, easy to maintain, and everyone wanted to know where to buy it. It looked good on everyone.
@23 Here at JBLM I think the ACU has become a liability. I nearly hit a pedestrian at least once every other day while they’re trying to cross the street. Gray uniform on a gray sidewalk against a gray sky while they walk between dark colored vehicles.
MRS D Made a comment the first time she saw me in ACU’s that said it all. ” you guys looked sharp & professional in crisp BDU’s & shined boots. Now you look like an unmade bed & you couldn’t blend into anything but a gravel pit”. Sometimes she gets it.
@25 TMB – what, no reflective belts? Maybe the Garrison CG can mandate reflective belts, get another OER / award bullet.
@26 Looks like Mrs. SFC D is a keeper. You’ve probably seen these but they always make me laugh:
http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u293/stan2323/laying-in-wait.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v13/Riceball/Military/bulldog-mirage-pics-175-077.jpg
@CPT Mike, It is also not just the Utilities. The Navy spent 2 yrs and I cannot recall millions on a PT uniform. First phase came out then they found out it was see thru when wet. The ladies were not happy.
The BDU was the closest we came to a common cammo uniform.
One cammo pattern should be common, but let them have different covers.
The Army already has multi-cam for Afghanistan, it is already in the “inventory” and many still have their multi-cam uniforms I’m sure. If DA said we could wear it starting tomorrow, I’d have it on tonight just to get ready for the first day I get to wear it again.
While there is still “hook and latch” (velcro is trademarked) on pockets, it is still somewhat improved over ACUs and definitely an actual camouflage uniform (perish the thought that the Army should be fuckin’ camouflaged)
I was lucky enough to miss the truck with ACUs on it when we went to Iraq, so I was “forced” to wear DCUs and I was the only guy in my unit who had only one type of camo across my uniforms and equipment. So I enjoyed it all the live long day.
I wore about 5 different field uniforms—if you count the old OD green cold weather uniforms we had in Germany
OK here is the answer to all of this. Each member of the armed services gets six sets of fatigues. They all come in white. The army can dye theirs green or use tea to make them brown depending on the ground they fight on. Night fighters can use black. If you want camo they can be tie dyed in whatever colors are appropriate. The navy can go with blue or kacki, snipes can simulate Oil or hydraulic fluid. All services can leave them white for summer wear or while on KP. The Air Force can also use white as they never get dirty anyway.
I first got issued ACU’S at Camp Shelby, MS getting ready for A-Stan. We quickly referred to them as “pajamas” because they fell apart that quickly in the field, and that was just in training, forget about how quickly they fell apart in the ME! The well-connected Contractor that made those sorry excuses for uniforms was probably as I would say it, “Laughing and fucking his wife all the way to the bank”! The Velcro cargo pockets went to pot after a month, so if you didn’t visit the tailor shop, you wandered around looking like Joe Shit the Rag Bag!!
http://soldiersystems.net/2014/02/03/joint-service-camo-national-defense-authorization-act-fiscal-year-2014-repost/
http://soldiersystems.net/category/camo/
Multicam and MARPAT are both good, but they’re also both more than a decade old now. Technology has changed, and camo no longer applies to just how it looks with the naked eye. Soldier Systems has been following it pretty religiously and seems to have more facts than those in charge at the moment.
Didn’t the Marines get MARPAT from the Canadians?
I’ve also heard that the Army ACU pattern is one that the USMC soundly REJECTED!!
Pat: as I understand it, MARPAT was developed at the US Army’s Natick Labs by Army engineers. They were working on a USMC project, so the USMC got the result.
Of course even if the services go with a common camouflage uniform the Air Force will fuck it up by putting big rank insignia on the sleeves, the Army will want a pen pocket on the forearm and that stupid mandarin collar BS, squids will love it as long as they don’t have to iron it or shine their boots and Marines will have to go back to iron on Eagle Globe and anchors (and boots will still screw that up)
So, I’m currently forward deployed in a joint environment. Here’s what we have:
Navy: 2 versions of the NWU (blueberry and type III)
Marines: Desert or Woodland MARPAT, depending
ARMY: ACU
AF: 2 versions of OCP (one regular, one for aircrew)
Leaving out flightsuits, we’ve got 7 uniforms here for 4 services.
I had the “pleasure” of being in the first BCT to deploy in the Army’s ACUs. After 16 months of combat our uniforms were pretty much falling off of us. You know it’s bad when the Iraqis are calling your unit the dirty division. That and the news kept calling us Marines since we had a Cav Squadren plus an Infantry Company attached to them out in Rawah and they couldn’t tell us apart.
I’ve never quite got the ‘everyone needs their own camo” thing and considered it a giant waste of money. Seemed to come down to a giant pissing contest with everyone wanting to look cool. Why would Navy Personnel on a Ship need camo? Come up with a couple of camo patterns for different situations and call it a day.
The only reason I can think of to have different camo for the branches is ease of Identification at a distance.
@19 if the Marines hadn’t peed all over the MARPAT with the mini Globe and Anchors to make it theirs alone, the entire force could use it. I think its the best one to come out in a long time.
@23: “I’ll take a hard working idiot over a lazy genius any day.”
Hell no, sir!
On the Active/Lazy:Intelligent/Stupid graph, Active-Stupid is about the most dangerous combination you can have in the military, both as a worker/technician/follower and in leadership.
“So having the Navy and the Air Force in their completely worthless camouflage seems even more odd.”
BDU’s were great for camo’ing maintenance grease/oil/fuel/hyraulic/dirt stains, and actually worked as camo in many environments, including around mechanical equipment and in shadows, even on the flightline.
ABU’s…. not so f#@&ing much. I blame McPeak. (Hell, if we can still blame Bush, why not, eh?)
Air Force who’ve deployed to A-stan seem to overwhelmingly love the Arny MultiCam we issue to them. They always rave about the comfort (daily wear and climate), deesign features (pocket placement, collar, adjustability) and complain somewhat about durability. And they need to be darker for better camo effect as noted above for BDU’s. Otherwise, that one seems to be on the right track and easy to make minor improvements.
A few different color choices for special environments, and it’s good.
Oops, that should be OCP, not MultiCam. Or maybe they’re the same thing…. so damn many acronyms now, I can’t friggin’ keep track any more.
The million $$ question WRT MARPAT is that if the MARPAT is indeed the superior design, then why shouldn’t everyone who is downrange use it? I can’t think of any reason that makes sense.
Take the EGA out of the pattern (which never should have been there in the first place) and let everybody wear the same field uniform. It worked for 20+ years when everyone was wearing the BDU, there’s absolutely no reason for all the uniform silliness now.
My question would be: Is Amos determined to preserve the MARPAT as a uniform because it is effective, or is his dedication to make sure that the Marines look different from every other service? If it is the former, then just say “OK, General, we agree that the MARPAT is the best uniform so everyone will wear it. Marines can keep their 8 pointed cover and iron on an EGA like they did in the BDU days and everyone else will wear the MARPAT uniform in the tradition of their respective service, just like in the BDU days.”
If Amos goes for that, then we’ll know he’s serious about fixing a problem that needs fixing. OTOH, if he throws a fit that “we came up with this and therefore nobody else is allowed to use it”, then someone needs to remind him who he works for, and that is the American people.
@44: Some of the best Soldiers I’ve ever had have been the ones who barely made it through high school. Some of my best NCOs have an article 15 in their file. Is that true across the board? Absolutely not. But in the past 12 years, it’s a common thread I’ve noticed. Naturally, there are outliers.
We’re not EOD techs here. We’re not repositioning satellites, managing the internet or building incredibly complex facilities. We’re digging wells, running pipe, installing electrical cabling, running field wire, framing out buildings, servicing generators, etc. Your mileage may vary.
Perhaps I misspoke when I used the term “idiot”. I meant to relate that to level of education rather than level of common sense. My mistake.
@42: “The only reason I can think of to have different camo for the branches is ease of Identification at a distance”
…which is pretty much the exact opposite of “camouflage.” 😉
Let me propose this as the optimal solution, and one that uses common sense. The latter alone likely guarantees it will never be used.
1. For garrison/shore duty, go back to the old perma-press green fatigues/utilities/whatever the hell you want to call them – for all services. Black leather boots; black web belt; headgear/socks/underwear to be specified by service.
2. Adopt the following for field wear:
a. Forrest/temperate – MARPAT or Multicam.
b. Desert – desert MARPAT.
c. Arctic – use current or develop one.
d. Jungle – if needed, use old Vietnam-era jungles, HWBDUs, or develop one.
e. Sea duty – go back to what the Navy had before the NWU (chambray/dungaree or khaki, depending on rank).
Field footwear will also be needed for a. through d.
3. Require all members of the military to possess garrison duty uniforms.
4. For deployable units, issue the pertinent field uniform based on base location from CIF, to be turned in on PCS/ETS. If deploying to a different climatic zone (e.g., from east coast CONUS to ME), exchange issued uniforms for the ones appropriate for new climate zone during pre-deployment processing.
This puts every service on a common footing with respect to daily garrison and field uniforms – e.g., in garrison/shore, they wear the same (less headgear); when deployed, they wear the same (less Navy afloat).
Problem solved, Uncle Sam saves mucho dinero, troops have an easy-to-care-for day-to-day uniform that’s (a) durable, (b) relatively cheap, and (c) can look damn good with a bit of care and effort. And the field uniforms don’t get beat to hell by daily wear and tear.
No way in hell this ever happens, of course. Everybody today has to look “different” and “cool”.
Thing is, this is pretty much exactly what we did pre-BDU (yeah, there were some variants even then, but not many).
It freaking worked.