First three Army “combat arms” females join their unit
The Stars & Stripes report that Pfc. Melissa Czarnogursky, Pvt. Degraff and Pvt. Larissa Schwerin, the first female fire directions specialists have all reported to their unit, the 41st Fires Brigade at Fort Hood, TX. As with most Fort Hood units, they immediately went to the field;
The women arrived at Fort Hood about a month ago, and almost immediately went into the field for a training exercise that lasted about a week and a half. They said they were happy to get a quick immersion into the unit, and learn new aspects of their job. But Degraff said she was also surprised at how friendly everyone was.
“They showed us the ropes,” she said of her fellow soldiers. “They just wanted to show us how to do our jobs the best way.”
Czarnogursky said the unit made an effort to make sure the women fit in and didn’t feel separated from the rest of the soldiers.
Still, Degraff said it was kind of strange to arrive and have everyone already know who they were.
“I don’t see us as different than anybody else,” she said. “The only thing different is where we go to the bathroom.”
The three women said the job can be challenging, but nothing a woman couldn’t do.
Well, that was painless, I guess, well, except for the social engineers who were hoping for some difficulties so they can throw fingers and call someone some names. But, then being a fire directions specialist is just barely combat arms. But, nonetheless, I’m proud of these ladies because they did what no one before them has done, and they’re not complaining about it.
Category: Military issues
My position has always been that if you can do the job, not be an ass, and follow orders then great. Otherwise get the fuck off my flight deck.
I have no problem really with women on ship, just as long as they do their jobs, not get pregnant and be professional.
“A woman in the infantry does more harm than good and more men than harm.”
The Army made the right call putting the women with 41st FiB. The Commander will ensure they are protected, and permitted to soldier. As a West Pointer, he’s also safe from harpies.
Fire Direction Computer, and MLRS crewmember are two MOS that are easy to convert to women.
@2 Try STFU, you dickless wonder. Shove your lack of respect for women up your fuccking ass.
So are these women what you Army guys call cannon cockers? Navy stuff I get, but Army slang – no exposure to it. Please fill in the blanks. Thanks.
#4 No – they are called Fire Direction Computers. Cannon-cockers (cannon crewmembers) are on the howitzers. You’ll recognize them by their huge upper bodies, and itty bitty brains.
My thanks, DaveO.
Notably they didn’t say what level they work at. Its a bit different sitting at Brigade level in the field where you get to be stationary for the most part then being with a firing battery that moves night and day, setting up nets, digging local security positions, doing all hands ammo offloads and shitting behind a bush.
I have plenty of respect. Shove your political correctness and emotions up your ass.
Is that right? YOU have a strange way of showing it.
@7 Kind of what I was thinking. My observation of artillery in the field was that they filled a lot of sandbags. Non artillery types occasionally had to help hump ammo but gunners always dug their own holes and filled their own sandbags.
FDC is now days more combat support than combat arms. Everything is computerized. In RVN (11th Marines) is was charts and sticks, help on the guns (105 and 155) security watch etc. Bet the never (or help) lift a round or set a fuse.
#8 – Fuck off you worthless pile of dick cheese. These women EARNED their spot on the team, what the fuck have you done besides troll?
How long before the first EO complaint?
Instinct, gdfgdf’s ‘respect’ for women is directly proportional to the amount of money he gives them to have sex with him. That’s obvious from his first post @ #2.
Ex-PH2 – I humbly suggest that to save ourselves having to type out ‘gdfgdf’, which I submit is a stupid handle, we instead refer to him as ‘fuckstick’ which is more apt a description.
Instinct, I concur.
Motion is passed.
FDC is not nearly as physical as being a cannon-cocker. That being said it is a “field job” so you spend a lot of time in the dirt, setting up nets, manning local security, standing radio watch and computing firing data. Not a lot of time to wash your ass. No where near as exhausting as being a grunt. That being said in conventional warfare arty batteries are prime targets for counter-battery fire, air strikes and any infiltration type raids by enemy units. In addition Marine Doctrine ( not sure about Army) calls for Artillery to fill in as provisional infantry as needed.
Not being combat arms nor current on deployments, can someone tell me is deployment of this Brigade is anticipated anytime soon? Seems like all of this driveby bad mouthing is for naught; but I do appreciate the comments about the CO. Nice to know the Peter Principal is not alive and well in the 41st. On second thought, although no pun was intended, that’s funny I don’t care how up tight you are.
Am adding a new one to OWB’s list:
PC is directly proportional to one’s orientation.
(Yes, you may take that any way you care to take it.)
I’ve served in combat support (MP) my whole career, along with women the whole time. Gender integration in any kind of MOS that requires iron discipline is a bad idea. Instead of focusing on the task at hand, Joe will try to get laid. And Jane, happy with all the attention, will probably agree with Joe.
In Iraq, my unit had five female Soldiers go home because of pregnancy. That is five jobs that still had to be done by the guys left behind. And if anyone has dealt with couples in the same unit – especially when the relationship is on the rocks – can attest to the special kind of leadership nightmare that is.
I wish these girls luck. I also wish their NCOs luck. The first time you yell at one of them like they were one of the guys, your ass is gonna be in a sling.
@21-If you think those kinds of tihngs happen only in the military, you are mistaken. I saw all of that, and worse things, in several decades of working in a civilian job, far less than I saw going on in the Navy.
Petty jealousies, broken relationships, one person hitting on another, getting caught in the supply room – it happens in every work place, whether it is civilian or military. It happens in law firms, pharmacies, medical clinics, veterinary offices, graphics production companies – the list is endless.
All cop groupies became women cops, the firefighter groupies became women firefighters, the paramedic/EMT groupies became EMTs.
It has less to do with the work environment than it does with a lack of maturity, discipline, and self-control. It is unfair to assume that they will be getting any ‘special’ treatment, because it does not appear that they have so far. In fact, they seem to have blended well into the unit and so far have not asked for ‘special’ privileges.
Hey, PH! You might want to temper this statement a bit because it simply is not true:
“All cop groupies became women cops, the firefighter groupies became women firefighters, the paramedic/EMT groupies became EMTs.”
For starters, all groupies are not women. Secondly, women who become cops, firefighters, paramedics or anything else do so for as many varied reasons as do men. And many do so for exactly the same reasons as do men. Thirdly, many, if not most, groupies become groupies because they cannot become whatever it is that has captured their attention.
You’re right, OWB, but that was what happened in the 1970s, when those jobs started opening up to women.
I should have qualified that statement. My bad.
In the civilian world, lives are usually not at stake. In the civilian world, the taxpayer doesn’t get screwed out of the money spent to train a female soldier who fractures a hip because of the weight of her IBA. Or, even worse, the female Soldier who gets pregnant on deployment. All those rounds at the range, all that training gone to waste.
Also, at the end of the work day, people go home to their families. Or the bar. They have social options. The ratio of men to women is roughly 50/50. Not so in the military, atleast not most of the MOSs. That means the few females in the unit will always be the center of attention.
During deployment, all you have is the people you are with.
It is not at all “unfair to assume they will get special treatment.” Boys are raised to take care of and protect women. Beyond that, pure instinct will take over. Discipline and maturity have little impact – these are young people with all sorts of hormones and a sex drive that is always on. Boys will be boys and girls will be girls, no matter what the comander and 1SG say. Having women around changes the dynamic entirely.
General Order number 1 made it clear that sex was not authorized. Yet it still happened all the time.
In the rush to let women go to war, we are hurting our sons. The Army sees everyone with a penis as a potential sexual assault perp.
PH: Not going to argue about it because it could certainly have happened somewhere. But it did NOT happen in the places I worked or recruited (both formally and informally) for those specific jobs during the early 70’s. For a while, I was in a position to hear about it if it did happen, and I heard about no such cases. Still, that doesn’t mean that it didn’t happen, of course.
LA had several issues with hiring physically unqualified women fairly early on, but that was later in the 70’s, and the first I knew of. In the beginning, standards were not changed. That only happened after it became a contest to see which departments could hire the most females and such. (The silly lawsuits by NOW were responsible for most of that.)
When I was an MLRS battery commander in a Field Artillery Brigade (precursor to the Fires Brigade), I had women in my battery. My complaint then was they were fully integrated members of the team, and as soon as we were committed to combat, the women (both NCO) would be pulled up to brigade and I was out the Supply Sergeant and Food Service Sergeant.
Where women can be intelligently integrated, do so. Where they can’t, don’t. Folks are too invested in the politics of this experiment, and not looking at the coming war with Iran.
The “Big lie” continues.
All I can say is that I have seen it both in the military and in the civilian work force. The company gets screwed, which is an appropriate term, out of a trained rep who is only there to get health insurance and a husband and get pregnant and stay home. The flip side of that coin is the women who work up to the week before they deliver, find a good baby sitter or day care after maternity leave, and go right back to work, and it isn’t because they’re single parents.
I have seen, more often than I can count, girls in a graphics company, a few years out of high school flirting shamelessly with one of the press operators nearly twice their age and then telling me the man’s wife is ‘ugly’. For what it’s worth, if you’re distracted when you run a 4-color press, it can literally rip you apart and even kill you.
This is not something new. The comparison is kids off at college getting blind drunk almost every night instead of studying. There is no one there to slam the brakes on them.
I’m not arguing with you, Pat, just trying to understand. It is a discipline problem, even if you don’t agree with that. If General Order #1 is ‘No Sex, Period’, that has the same tone as Mom and Dad telling you that you can’t date the kid with the Harley and the hair hanging in his eyes.
But you can’t blame all women for the misbehavior of a few any more than I can blame all men for the misbehavior of a few.
I’m sure you two will be singing different tunes in a few months. Until then, please feel free to alleviate your tears through flaming others on the internet.
Nope. Not gonna cry about it either. Or is that some other “two?”
Singing a different tune? Not likely. Been singing the same one for decades and am aware of no reason to change it now. That tune would be, since it seems not to be evident to some, that every job dictates the standards to do that job. Genitalia is not what dictates the needs of any job except a very few.
Set standards. Select candidates who are physically capable of doing whatever the job might be. Then train them. Then test them under actual conditions to see if they can translate what they have learned as theory into practical application.
It’s not particularly complicated. Really it isn’t.
Ex-PH2, are you a woman?
@32
Look through the Members’ Gallery
@ 32 … Be careful! EX-PH2 is more than you or I can handle.
EX-PH2 is former military.
Make it nice!
God’s speed. Set the same standard. Do well. And if so inclined and only if HOT … I am awaiting the 2014 All Female Bikini Clad Infantry Calendar … Just like what the only democracy in the Middle East does … Every Year … And I can prove it!
Carry on!
@32, What do you think, puddle pounder?
My issue is this: when an MOS is opened to Women, there are a number that just want to work, earn their pay, and I have no quips or qualms with them. There are also a number who are there to “ride the EO quota wagon”, and they drag a unit down in no time. EO complaints, Sexual harassment complaints from being put on weekend extra duty because they were slugs during the work week, ones who complain about “harassment” because they don’t pull their weight and catch crap about it,… I’ve been there, seen it. And when Women get assigned to say, Infantry units, and then complain all the way to the Pentagon because they have to *BLEEP!* in a “cat hole” just like their male counterparts (hey, “equal treatment!!), the PC politicians will get them special treatment due to their gender, and what will that do to morale, unit cohesion, etc.? Like I said, I’ve seen Female Personnel that really did do their jobs, never sought special treatment due to their gender, and I’ve seen their opposite, they ruin a unit in no time, especially when said unit has weak, PC leadership!
@ EX-PH2. NICE! This poster called me a squid or swabby or some dumdass label once.
Only I get to label me!
Weapons free!
What Proud said, in spades, times 10.
It’s no place for the lazy, and I saw men in the Navy who were just as lazy and shiftless goldbrickers as the women Pat complains about.
Swabby? Squid?
I was called a ‘little gob’ when I went home on leave after boot.
I saw it during my AD days in the early 90’s as well as both tours in the Middle East, I have NO use for slugs regardless of race, gender, etc. Me, I’m an Equal Opportunity A$$HOLE whenever I’m in charge, I treat all malingerers, “shammers”,etc., like *BLEEP* regardless of whatever category they place themselves in!
I have never responded well to labels. It is the Irish in me! I have the scared knuckles to prove it!
And I think our most recent SV candidate, the lying lesbian ex-Marine, has proven that women can be just as bad actors as men.
For that matter, I’ve stood super on women who were complete fuckups, insubordinate, and lazy, and assigned to clean heads and floors, complaining about it until I told them the sooner they got done, the less they’d have to complain about.
@42 And I don’t like being pigeonholed or stereotyped, Master Chief.
Agreed. I am on your side. Let’s go get that Coastguardperson and give him/her/it (preop)/it (postop) a good ole behind “1B Boiler” beat down.
I have a better idea. Ice fishing rescue duty on Lake Erie in a snowstorm. 😉
Ex PH2, I don’t recall complaining about female goldbrickers. My issue is how sex changes the dynamic in a unit. My last deployment, I had a squad of all men. When the boys would screw up, I would do a little yelling, make them do some pushups, and a few minutes later, it was all over. Women don’t react the same way, in my experience.
I worked with two females when I was in GTMO. One was a hard worker,very dependable and respectfull. The other was 100 percent worthless. She brought down the morale of all the other troops because of her lazy and disrespectfull attitude. But females know that in todays Army, they can put a man thru hell just by talking to the right person. They know if they don’t get the shift they want or the day off they want, they go to IG. Even if the complaint in not substantiated, the message is sent. “Fuck with me, I’ll make your life suck.”
When I was in the civilian sector, things were far different. Like I said in an earlier post, when there is a roughly 50/50 male to female ratio, its tougher to claim favoritism. But when there are only a few females in a unit, and they start dating within the unit, cohesion goes downhill real quick.
The problem with women in a victor unit is that the men stop relating to each other as a wolfpack and start competing for female attention. It never ends well.
#19 – HQ, including the command team, of this (my former) brigade is deployed as we speak, along with one of the FA units plus half of the signal company.
Now, to these three young soldiers, good luck, Godspeed.
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