Marine dies in apparent game at 8th & I
The Washington Post reports that 19-year-old Lance Cpl. Cody S. Schoenfelder fatally shot himself while on guard at the Marine Barracks in Washington, DC Friday night. It looks like an accidental shooting as the result of some game called “Trust”;
Two D.C. police officials said Schoenfelder was shot inside a guard shack and there was a second Marine with him at the time. Investigators are exploring the possibility that a gun accidentally discharged as the Marines were playing the game “Trust,” in which one points a weapon at the other, according to those two officials and a third person in law enforcement, all of whom spoke on the condition of anonymity because the investigation is ongoing.
[…]
As part of the game, one Marine pretends to load a magazine into a weapon, points it at another’s head and says, “Do you trust me?” according to accounts in the Marine Corps Times. After getting an answer, the Marine holding the gun either pulls the trigger or lowers the weapon. Either way, there should not be any bullets fired.
The Times paper has reported on service members convicted of manslaughter and court-
martialed after accidental shootings. If Schoenfelder was killed while playing “Trust,” police say, something went terribly awry for him to have shot himself.
When a loaded weapon is involved, I never have any trust.
Category: Marine Corps
As an MP who has worked more then my share of physical security of watching the grass grow and rabbits screw, I can say that I’ve seen boredom make guys do some really dumb shit.
There is no such thing as an unloaded weapon.
Boredom certainly can make you do odd things. But when it comes to weapons of any kind: “Doveryai, no Proveryai” (“Trust, but Verify”).
Sad.
Youth, boredom and lack of supervision.
Very sad.
What a waste, geez guys play a game where you hit each other…if you f#ck up you only lose a tooth or get a broken nose….but you don’t die….that’s way too young to be dead for a stupid reason…
Like I said yesterday, there bad days and there are BAD DAYS. I’m very sorry to read this story. Two bored dumbasses just changed a great many lives in a moment, and ended one.
Fuck… stupid ass way to die. just a waste!
Dang. Whatever happened to the “trust” game when you fall backwards and trust the other person to catch you? So sad.
This kind of senseless shit happens way too often. Very sad. Green Thumb, you hit the nail on the head, big time lack of supervision on this one.
Excuse my profination, but WHAT. THE. FUCK??? How stupid can any trained military person (a Marine Guard/MP no less) be to play/fuck around like that with a loaded firearm. FUCKING STUPID!!!
1. Treat every weapon as if it were loaded.
2. Never point a weapon at anything you do not intend to shoot.
3. Keep your finger straight and off the trigger until you are ready to fire.
4. Keep your weapon on safe until you intend to fire.
4 rules not followed
2 Careers over
1 Life ruined
1 Life lost
Already said but repeted for emphasis…What the FARKING FLYING FARK!!!!
Sad, STOOPID and Sad again.
What. A. Waste.
Maybe Psul & Phildo should play the “Trust” game.
Stupid YES … Even more tragic will be the order to ensure all weapons on post are unloaded!
I remember when I worked at Site R and we were working 12 hours shifts I finally got tired of my wife saying that I didn’t do anything but sit around all day. I took her into the bathroom, shut the door, and said “Okay, let’s me and you sit here and do nothing for the next 12 hours. After 20 minutes she said, “Okay, I get it.”
@12, Maybe they can get the “Big Dog” to stand in between them and referee…
@13. Sharp observation, my friend. The inevitable knee-jerk (over) reaction.
I pulled a lot of guard duty myself over the course of my career. As boring as it got, I never ONCE thought to “play” with my weapon. Unless it was a mattock handle. Those were fun for taking batting practice with pieces of gravel.
“accidentally discharged”
“accidentally”
I hate that.
The word is “negligent”. “Negligent discharge”
Agree with everything already said.
Every weapon is a loaded weapon.
With you on that, Spade! Intentionally doing something, like discharging a weapon, is hardly an accident. The death may not have been intentional, but it certainly was negligent.
Troops were REALLY bored…this soldier is damn lucky he didn’t get hit in the upper chest – idiots.
@ExHack, I was taught that ALL guns are ALWAYS loaded unless proven otherwise.
Cakmakli, you nailed it. But as an AP who pulled guard duty for five years, I don’t ever recall any of us screwing around with a firearm, then again, we were not paired with another. Fifty years later I vividly recall my training and instill it in our grand children – ALWAYS treat any weapon as being loaded until you personally clear it, then after you do, DO NOT point it at anyone.
Comrades in Arms: In 1969, when I was a Private First Class in the United States Army stationed at Spangdahlem Air Force Base in Germany, assigned to Team “A-2”, Company “A”, 11th Air Defense Signal Battalion, 32d Army Air Defense Command, we had a similar incident. At one of the numerous isolated Nike missile installations that protected Spangdahlem Air Force Base, a couple of the guys on duty in the perimeter guard towers were relieving their boredom by shooting at each other with their M-14 rifles. I’ll give you three guesses at what happened, and the first two don’t count. Here’s a quote from a speech by Mark Twain, “ADVICE TO YOUTH”, given in 1882: ___________________________________ “Never handle firearms carelessly. The sorrow and suffering that have been caused through the innocent but heedless handling of firearms by the young! Only four days ago, right in the next farm house to the one where I am spending the summer, a grandmother, old and gray and sweet, one of the loveliest spirits in the land, was sitting at her work, when her young grandson crept in and got down an old, battered, rusty gun which had not been touched for many years, and was supposed not to be loaded, and pointed it at her, laughing and threatening to shoot. In her fright, she ran screaming and pleading toward the door on the other side of the room. But, as she passed him, he placed the gun almost against her very breast and pulled the trigger! He had supposed it was not loaded. And he was right – – – , it wasn’t. So, there wasn’t any harm done. It is the only case of that kind I ever heard of. Therefore, just the same, don’t you meddle with old unloaded firearms. They are the most deadly and unerring things that have ever been created by man. You don’t have to take any pains at all with them. You don’t have to have a rest. You don’t have to have any sights on the gun. You don’t have to take aim, even. No,… Read more »
Stupid is as stupid does…
Agree with all the sentiments above.
When it comes to firearms (or any other deadly weapon), there is no “Trust”.
In all the instances “US” old farts list for not doing something like this we are forgetting one. What would have happened to you if the 1st Sargent, Gunny, or other top NCO even heard a rumor that this was happening. Is that allowed now? The fear of getting destroyed by a NCO was one form of keeping discipline at the lowest level. Now too many young troops are finding out what discipline at the highest level looks like because of that Cut Out no longer exists.
A Sailor standing POW on an old DD, just down the pier from my first ship USS Valdez (FF-1096) at Naval Station, Newport, RI, drew his Colt 45 from his holster, placed it against his chest and pulled the trigger.
Back then in 1982, across all services, sentries and watches typically carried unloaded weapons. Of course some posts and missions required fully loaded and ready weapons, but typically unloaded weapons were the standard.
So SN Dumbfuckskibergerwitz, as stated above, pulls Colt 45 from his holster, places in against his chest, pulls the trigger, firing pin impacts a round, round travels down barrel, and round enters chest cavity.
There was no magazine in the weapon.
@20 Would anybody like to tell me why that round didn’t penetrate? I’ve watched that video twice, and I’m confused.
It was a less than lethal round design to inflict pain thus causing complaince on the part of the dumb ass who comes in contact with it!
In the industry we call it an arcade round!
@28 Pinto Nag
I’m not a Jarhead or Army but I think that what they shot him with was a 40mm riot control non lethal grenade like this
http://www.publicservice.co.uk/dyn_graphics/features/dmj42_95.jpg
Wiki says ” The M1006 launches a solid foam “sponge grenade” at high enough velocity to wind someone or in extreme cases perhaps even break bones. The use of a softer foam sponge in the M1006 is likely a product of the serious injuries and fatalities caused by rubber and plastic batons in use by police forces around the world over the last 30 years or so. Despite this, the M1006 is still potentially lethal when fired at distances under 10 meters, having an 81 meter per second muzzle velocity, as well as, being largely ineffective at distances over 50 meters.[“
Thanks for the info!
@20, I’m sad that those dumb asses are wearing the same combat patch as me.
Really no such thing as a non-lethal round.
Less than lethal is the new buzz designation.
Pretty much lawyer language … but makes sense.
For example … most less than lethal rounds if deployed improperly can kill! Therefore … non-lethal designation is improper.
Wiki:
Non-lethal weapons, also called less-lethal weapons, less-than-lethal weapons, non-deadly weapons, compliance weapons, or pain-inducing weapons are weapons intended to be less likely to kill a living target than conventional weapons. It is often understood that accidental, incidental, and correlative casualties are risked wherever force is applied, but non-lethal weapons try to minimise the risk as much as possible. Non-lethal weapons are used in combat situations to limit the escalation of conflict where employment of lethal force is prohibited or undesirable, where rules of engagement require minimum casualties, or where policy restricts the use of conventional force.
@15.
Yeah.
He could sit there and run his semen sampler.
Its not like he does not have the experience….
Lance Coconuts playing with guns results in dumb-assery/fatality.
Go figure.
There is never anything “accidental” about shooting a fellow Marine in the head. Ever.
Play stupid games, get stupid prizes.
I can see the writing on the wall.
Because of this the Barney Fife Act will be rushed through the approval process.
My heart goes out to the families.
TREAT EVERY WEAPON AS IF IT WERE LOADED…….
One life ended, one life ruined. Seen it way too many times. Guns are “toys” the way a rattlesnake is a “pet”.
Let me get this straight… he was playing a game where you point a weapon at someone else… but accidentally shot himself? Something is not really adding up here.
I wouldn’t point my own weapon at myself, much less trust someo else to do it
with theirs.
This was actually a virtual epidemic not that many years ago within the USMC.
I seem to remember reading about several of these episodes. So sad to see
It rear its ugly head again.
As an MP, we had our share of boring times but nobody ever fucked around with weapons, playing games. I guess we were fortunate to have platoon sergeants and a first sergeant that brought holy living hell with them when they found out any kind of crap was going on. Horseplay to them was one thing, screwing around with your weapon? No, no, no….
Too much XBox and other Modern Warfare bullshit, sounds like to me. Now, countless hours of safety briefs and PowerPoint presentations will rule the day from here until next Spring, to be sure.
Gentlemen,
Mark my words, you’ll see an OIC or a CO get relieved over this, based on current climate…maybe even a senior enlisted as well.
There’s no excuse for this, it’s a tragedy for sure, but one that definately could have been avoided by just following your orders as they pertain to your post. Having stood my fair share of watch over the years, I never thought playing with my service weapon was a optimal way to pass the time.
It’s sad. Just sad….it a stupid kind of way.
Unfortunately, this “game” has been around for several years now, and deaths have occured downrange and homestation. Tragic and senseless.
CWO5USMC: you’re most likely right. Getting fired for something stupid done by a subordinate is a traditional risk that comes with a commission – and with stripes as well.
To a point, that’s correct. But at some point, you have to wonder just how far leadership can go to prevent acts of pure inane stupidity.
Just some other, fairly recent episodes of this practice:
http://www.leatherneck.com/forums/showthread.php?89042-Marine-sentenced-to-eight-years-for-death-in-trust-me-game
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20090907/NEWS/909070304/Can-deadly-8216-Trust-game-stopped-
#39 Flagwaiver:
Here’s how the game gets played.
Marine #1 has a service weapon (pistol or M4). Marine #2 takes Marine #1’s weapon and inserts a magazine. Marine #2 then points Marine #1’s weapon at Marine #1 and says “Do you trust me?” or “What is your weapons condition?”
Marine #1 then replies….and Marine #2 either pulls the trigger (if it is empty) or puts the weapon down (if there is a round in the chamber)…
The problem is that often enough, Marine #2 forgets which condition the weapon is in himself…and BANG. Marine #1 is wounded or dead and Marine #2 spends some time in prison.
Ahh, the Marine Trust game is back eh? Stupidest fucking macho little kid bullshit I have ever heard of.
“Hey, let’s just ignore RULE 1 of working with Firearms!”
Obvious Warning Labels exist because of people like that…
I still have a scar on my left foot from playing “Chicken” in 1976 with a folding Buck knife, but at least I’m still alive.
A whole lot less of this would occur if every military person who has a weapon, had live ammunition for it/ in it. From my experience, it was safe to consider that no military type but MPs, working stateside, had live ammunition. I cannot count the days that I spent on guard duty- Armed- with an empty M-1 Garand. If we were expected to have loaded weapons in garrison, we would be more likely to treat them ALL as loaded.
This doesn’t excuse this dumb kid, but it also shows that the military mindset is somewhat complicit.
If you want to play with your weapon…. practice breaking it down and putting it back together blindfolded. WITHOUT A ROUND IN THE CHAMBER OR MAG.
Freakin senseless…….
If the Barney Fife act isn’t passed, I see flag safeties making a comback.