White House: Boston bomber won’t be tried as “enemy combatant”

| April 22, 2013

The Washington Times reports that Jay Carney told the media today that Dzhokhar Tsarnaev, the fellow who bombed the Boston Marathon and led the Boston area police on a merry chase reminiscent of the popular Fox series “24”, won’t be tried as an “enemy combatant” even though he is an “enemy combatant” in every sense of the word.

So that means a trial, but the court of public opinion has already determined that he’s innocent. Twitchy tells us about the Twitter hash tag for #FreeJahar and apparently all the chicks dig him. Some empty headed “artist” somewhere named Amanda Palmer has written “A Poem For Dzhokhar.”

Mike Lillis of The Hill predicts that, because laws prohibited prevented the Tsarnaev from legally owning guns, we obviously need more laws;

The news that the suspects were not authorized to own firearms will likely add fuel to calls for tougher gun laws – an issue that was put on the back-burner last week after the Senate blocked the central elements of a gun-control package backed by President Obama.

That was obvious from the start – we need more laws that don’t work. Make some more criminals, until we’re all criminals. How Lillis got there from her, I’ll never know. The trial will be a joke.

But, Leaky Leahy is concerned because the Republicans are “exploiting” the incident to block immigration reform, says the Washington Post. So there’s something for everyone to exploit for their own purposes.

Category: Terror War

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Hondo

I hate to say, “I told you so”, but

http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=35210&cpage=1#comment-825473

2/17 Air Cav

Yeah, no one saw this coming–the fan club, I mean. I suggest that whenever the little bastard’s face is published anywhere, that the photo of the little boy–a kid at the race to support his Dad–be shown with it. I wish they had taken the SOB dead.

2/17 Air Cav

Okay, I’ll too too, Hondo. Same thread, comment #6.

FatCircles0311

So a decade from now he might be convicted……
Hasan’s trial had yet to begin.

2/17 Air Cav

“…toot too…” Arrggh.

Ex-PH2

What? You were expecting common sense from those braindead idiots? Oh, that’s just asking too much of them, especially the ‘poet’.

Hondo

Different aspects, 2/17 Air Cav. You get credit for the prediction of “useful idiot” support, and I get credit for the prediction that the current Administration would not declare him an unlawful combatant and treat him as such. Deal?

PintoNag

WHAT TRIAL? Like the one Hasan got? Oh, wait…

Justice was denied us when that shitbag was allowed to keep breathing after they found him.

And to all the brain-dead out there who are “digging” this slime — your adoration assures that more just like him will crawl out of the woodwork. Enjoy helping to kill people, because that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

pete

one has to be a conservative/vet/tea party member in order to be prosecuted as an enemy combatant!

rb325th

Fucking idiots, each and ever one of them that think this idiot deserves anything but a free ride on Old Sparky.
100’s wounded, many of them grievously, 4 dead…. and there is not a shred of doubt that that punk and his brother are responsible.
Every time I see the photo of him casually walking away after dropping his bomb right behind the Martin family… I just want to kill him myself. Slowly.

NHSparky

Leahy is worried about immigration “reform” (ha!) because he represents a state that’s quite literally 98 percent WHITE. Not white/Hispanic, WHITE. As in minorities are turned back at the friggin border.

About as close as anyone in VT gets to day laborers harrassing people is some French Canadian guy in St. Johnsbury going, “Shovel your roof off, eh?”

And more laws? Yeah, see my previous comment on the other thread. Something tells me Mister Lillis is unencumbered by this little concept called REALITY.

dnice

Why do i always think of the Jim Candy line from Great Outdoors when it comes to trying an terrorist as an enemy combatant:

“You wouldn’t know a good time if it fell out of the sky and landed on your face and started to wiggle!”

I mean Dzhokhar is probably a little insulted.

Also, what deterrence is there if the bad guys can engage in operations against the US here on our soil, kill some people, then get free room and board for probably at least 5 years, a free attorney and get a platform to spew propaganda.

Also, I don’t recall any one getting the death penalty for a terrorist bombing or killing since McVeigh. Maybe executions are not publicized but i just don’t recall hearing about any – hear more about combatants let go and then getting back in action.

ComancheDoc

this is the kind of stuff that makes me want to build a house in the woods and surround it with a moat and electric fence and alligators and signs that say gtfo

PintoNag

@13 There is a company that builds bunkers to order that is back-ordered for about three years. This kind of stuff is the reason why.

Anonymous

Well, I must be a fucking idiot. I’m fine with him being tried in our court system – he’s an American who lives in the US. Why shouldn’t he be tried here?

And I have no idea whatsoever where Jonn gets the idea that the court of public opinion finds him innocent. Quoting a few whackjobs on the internet is easy to do. Want me to prove that President Obama is an alien lizard-person from another planet? No problem, I’ll quote someone on the internet. Want me to show how 9/11 was an inside job? No problem, I’ll quote someone on the internet. You’ll *always* find a few nutcases who believe whatever crazy-ass notion you’re looking into, but that by no means is indicative of the majority of people.

ComancheDoc

except that shit is trending in the “twit”terverse and there are already large groups expressing sympathy for him, not to mention all the tinfoilies who think they were setup

Twist

@2, One of the guys I work with said that he was listening to the police scanners online and that the police were minutes, if not moments, from killing the guy, but got ordered from higher to negotiate and bring him in alive.

JAGC

Regardless of where you come down on the issue of enemy combatants, in this case the AG and President got it right as a pure legal question. By law, American citizens/naturalized citizens cannot be tried by military commission, nor can they lose or diminish their 4th amendment rights, etc. It’s the same with Adam Ghadan once we catch him. As a U.S. citizen (despite his attempts to renounce), he can only be prosecuted in federal court, and in fact has already been indicted for treason in California.

If the older brother had survived, as a green card holder, he would still be considered an alien. As an alien, the older brother could have been designated an enemy combatant in the legal sense, to include military trial and un-Mirandized interrogations.

NHSparky

Anon, he’s a resident alien, not a naturalized citizen, IIRC. The older brother WAS until little bro decided to use him as a speed bump.

That being said, there are enough people out there glomming on to this shitstain–conspiracy theorists, nutjobs, and your basic gore groupies to raise a bit of concern.

Remember, it only takes one asshole for this guy to walk. Couple that with the inept fucks that currently run DOJ, starting with Eric Holder, and you’ll understand my less-than-enthusiastic endorsement that justice will 1–be swift, 2–prevail.

Just my .02.

Anonymous

@16: Understood. And that’s a regrettable reality – there’s lots of stupid, pathetic people in the world. It’s why we have things like people who write love-letters to serial killers in prison. But go on, ask around even in liberal havens whether this guy should be convicted and see what you find. There’s no bastion of support for him – everyone knows he’s guilty.

We still need to follow the rule of law, though … not for his sake, but for everyone else’s.

PintoNag

@15 Say it with me. “Enemies, foreign and domestic.” Repeat it a few times, if you like. He identified with terrorists from another country, and acted on that identification to kill American citizens. Now, if that doesn’t deserve enemy combatant status in your mind, would you like to outline what does? We’re either at war, or we’re not. The terrorists are our enemies, or they’re not. Decide.

Nicki

Here’s the link to the actual complaint, if anyone is interested.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/137391923

MSGRetired

Also when he took the oath to become a citizen, one could argue he broke that oath and they could revoke his citizenship. Please dont let Massachusetts prosecute him, no death penalty here.

Anonymous

@19: I believe the younger one (Dzhokar) was a citizen since, ironically, 9/11/2012, whereas the older one (Tamerlan) had his citizenship pending.

And, while I agree that it only takes one for the guy to walk, I think the chances of that happening are incredibly small, and we can’t simply set aside US law on the basis of a low-probability bad outcome in a trial.

I also don’t think justice will be swift, but I do think it will prevail. I’m patient.

JAGC

Jonn @ #23… Jose Padilla was designated an enemy combatant and held in the brig in South Carolina. However, if my recollection is correct, the court was about to rule that a U.S. citizen could not be held under those circumstances, so at the last minute, the Bush administration switched his legal/detention forum from military to civilian. Padilla was then tried in a Miami federal court. But the 2009 military commissions act and the most recent NDAA prohibit this. These laws were not around with Padilla’s military detention.

That’s why younger brother can’t be treated like an enemy combatant, but the older one could if he had survived.

Old Trooper

@23: Yeah, I didn’t agree with that one, either, and it was later overturned. The scumbag is an American citizen, on American soil, and committed his crimes on American soil. Let it go to civilian court, where it should be. yeah, he might die of old age on death row, but at least he will be sent there. The lefties all like to point to McVeigh, but they forget he got the needle.

Hondo

Are you sure about that, JAGC? I seem to recall much talk that the Military Commissions Act of 2006 (MCA 2006) was so broadly worded as to apply to US citizens as well as noncitizens. While Boudmedienne v. Bush (2008) did overturn the suspension of habeas corpus prescribed by the MCA, I don’t believe it overturned the act entirely. And I don’t believe the 2009 follow-on overturned the definitions in MCA 2006, either.

EdUSMCleg

I am a little hesitant giving the gov’t the power to declare a US citizen as an enemy combatant. Opens up whole cans of worms.

Anonymous

@21: Yes, we must defend against enemies foreign and domestic – that doesn’t mean the domestic ones, who happen to be American citizens, are stripped of the rights afforded to them by their citizenship simply on (overwhelming) suspicion of their guilt.

Also, at the risk of being pedantic, we don’t know that HE identified with terrorists from another country. It might be that he identified with his brother, and his brother identified with terrorists from another country.

I’m not a lawyer type, but I’d guess ‘enemy combatant’ is a term that has some legal meaning, and it’s probably fuzzy, as Jonn points out Jose Padilla was charged as such. I’m just saying that we should err on the side of NOT taking away an American citizen’s rights without due process of the law. Even if the outcome of that law is all but certain.

If the price for being extra vigilant about our rights -yours and mine- comes at the cost of having to be patient and deal with a trial for this asshole, I’ll take that. It’s a pretty small price to pay, I think.

Hondo

Old Trooper: actually, I believe the 4th Circuit ruled in Padilla’s case that the US did in fact have the power to detain US citizens as enemy combatants, and that the SCOTUS refused to hear Padilla’s appeal of that matter. I also believe that Padilla was moved to civilian court and tried there at the government’s request, where he was later convicted and sentenced to a rather lengthy prison term.

FatCircles0311

Islamist jihadists actions are inherently political in nature. That is why they are enemies of the United States. Their jihad is to create the united Islamic state called the caliphate. For fuck sake the guy even uploaded videos precisely about achieving the goal of the Caliphate. That is in direct opposition regarding our forms of governance as a republic and our United States Constitution. This isn’t some personal crime that occurred like normal civilians perpetrate all of the time. There is a very distinct clear difference and that makes them enemy combatants. You don’t need to wear a uniform or be under the banner of a recognized state to wage war with political ends.

JAGC

Hondo… the MCA 2009 only applies to alien unprivileged enemy combatants. A green card holder is an alien. Naturalized citizen is not.

But I think we are talking past each other in some respects. A US citizen can be an enemy combatant. Alawaki was one, and that played a legal role in justifying his appropriate demise. However, if we would have captured Alawaki, apart from the public safety exception and maybe a material witness detention for a bit, he could not be interrogated extensively without Miranda, nor could he have been prosecuted by military commission.

Re: SCOTUS and Padilla. I seem to recall the Supreme Court case being mooted by Bush’s last minute decision to transfer him to federal custody, which was done so that the court would not rule with an answer that they didn’t want.

Stacy0311

save the time, trouble and effort of the trial. After a week or two of interogation let him “succumb to his injuries” or “oops, I didn’t know I was standing on his oxygen line”

PintoNag

Well, it’s nice to know that the ROE here in the US includes the right of terrorists to bomb the shit out of civilians, and then go to a nice comfortable jail for the rest of their lives. That ought to do a lot for the morale of the terrorists, if no one else. And yes, that’s sarcasm, and yes, I’m angry.

They’re using our laws against us. When the laws can be used by the terrorists to continue their terrorism (ie, by the spread of jihad and propaganda in prison), then the laws need to be changed.

And we REALLY need to teach our cops how to shoot.

2/17 Air Cav

@31. “Also, at the risk of being pedantic, we don’t know that HE identified with terrorists from another country. It might be that he identified with his brother, and his brother identified with terrorists from another country.”

Yeah, and Jeffrey Dahmer identified with Julia Child. So what?

Hondo

JAGC: you are correct in that the MCA 2009 applies only to noncitizens. However, it is silent on the issue of whether US citizens can be declared unlawful combatants and treated similarly.

Since the SCOTUS did not rule in the Padilla case, the controlling opinion on the matter would seem to be the opinion of the 4th Circuit – which ruled that Padilla could indeed be held as an enemy combatant, regardless of the fact that he is a US citizen. Instructive as well is ex parte Quirin, which said much the same during World War II. At least two of those who were the subject of ex parte Quirin were detained as enemy combatants, and were tried by military tribunal under wartime Executive Order were in fact naturalized US citizens. One of them was executed.

JAGC

I think this was the whole issue with the NDAA 2013, and in the end, the compromise was to specifically state that the USG cannot detain without charge a US citizen. It might have just limited it to citizens apprehended in the US, but either way, this guy could be declared an enemy combatant, but it would have no practical effect.

As for Quirin, the facts surrounding the court case and FDR’s actions are really interesting. They were promptly executed prior to the court ruling on the issue.

Virtual Insanity

How, then, does this discussion track with the Administration’s stance on using a HELLFIRE from a drone to kill American citizens abroad?

Didn’t they decide THAT was okay, and make a legal case for it?

Paratus

Personally I think Padilla should have been tried reverse-Salem-Witch style. A full mag from a 1911 to the back of the dome. If he dies he’s guilty, if he lives he’s innocent. Same thing with this little fucker. Unfortunately, public opinion is now swinging in this turd’s favor and I believe he’ll likely be acquitted, or if by some miracle he actually isn’t then it’ll only take one lousy liberal activist judge for this piece of shit to walk. Welcome to the new America, everybody.

JAGC

@ 40… if a US citizen is overseas, it’s dangerous/not feasible to capture, and he is designated an enemy combatant at the top of the executive branch, then we can use a hellfire… If the same guy is in the US, it’s law enforcement. That is the state of the law in its current form.

Virtual Insanity

#42 JAGC–got it…but isn’t that a clarification the Administration won’t make when asked?

“Neither Congress nor our federal courts has limited the geographic scope of our ability to use force to the current conflict in Afghanistan. We are at war with a stateless enemy, prone to shifting operations from country to country.” –Holder

http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-matrix/archives/2012/03/ag_holder_addressed_awlaki_kil.php

Seems like he’s not drawing a line between in the US/outside the US?

Virtual Insanity

And, yeah, I know I sound tinfoil-y.

Anonymous

@37: I was simply stating that what Pinto said, “He identified with terrorists from another country […]” may not actually be true.

Hondo

Anonymous (45): your point is irrelevant. Provided they are sane, whether a mass murderer acts out of political motive or simply because he/she is evil makes no difference regarding their culpability.

In either case, the younger Tsarnaev willingly and personally participated in the use of weapons of mass destruction to commit mass murder, as well as to wound and/or maim dozens of other innocent bystanders. Unless he’s mentally incompetent, his reason for doing so is irrelevant. Mass murder is a heinous crime that fully merits the death penalty, regardless of motivation.

pete

Where is the president?

Where is Janet Napolitano?

Who do you blame? There is a lot of blame to go around.

Your government failed you.

The FBI has been forced to admit that they interviewed the elder brother involved in the Boston Marathon bombing but they never arrested him.

The FBI also investigated other terrorists like the Fort Hood killer, but they did nothing.

This is your America under Obama and Napolitano: We have to go to Russian news sources to learn about all this.

Why did the FBI force the police to hold off on publicizing photographs of the Boston terror suspects until after Obama gave his speech at the interfaith service?

Within a few hours after the pictures were released, all hell broke loose in Boston. Maybe they didn’t want to upset the president’s photo op.

I’m sick to my stomach at the psychopaths running this socialist liberal government. They have more fear of patriotic “Tea Party” members and white males than they do of Chechnyan terrorists.

Michael Savage’s take on this whole fiasco today

Common Sense

@30 – those are my thoughts as well. Declaring a US citizen within the US an enemy combatant is essentially taking away his 5th Amendment rights at the say-so of a government official. That’s the antithesis of what was intended by the Constitution. Inalienable means just that. If it doesn’t, then what’s to prevent said government official from making the same declaration about any of our other rights? Isn’t that what the 2nd Amendment battle has been about?

I sure wish the terrorist’s suicide attempt had been successful and saved us the time and treasure his trial and incarceration will cost, but I recognize that we also need the intel from him. So it is, what it is.

pete

Michael Savage today,,

Where is the president?

Where is Janet Napolitano?

Who do you blame? There is a lot of blame to go around.

Your government failed you.

The FBI has been forced to admit that they interviewed the elder brother involved in the Boston Marathon bombing but they never arrested him.

The FBI also investigated other terrorists like the Fort Hood killer, but they did nothing.

This is your America under Obama and Napolitano: We have to go to Russian news sources to learn about all this.

Why did the FBI force the police to hold off on publicizing photographs of the Boston terror suspects until after Obama gave his speech at the interfaith service?

Within a few hours after the pictures were released, all hell broke loose in Boston. Maybe they didn’t want to upset the president’s photo op.

I’m sick to my stomach at the psychopaths running this socialist liberal government. They have more fear of patriotic “Tea Party” members and white males than they do of Chechnyan terrorists.

pete

sorry for having it post twice Hondo

Anonymous

@Hondo: I mentioned it with respect to the discussion with Pinto about Tsarnaev having ‘connections with terrorists overseas’, and how that relates to enemy combatant status vs. being an American tried in our court system. Maybe it is irrelevant in a legal sense – you and JAGC know far more about me than that.

In so far as a typical American’s understanding of things, though, I personally feel that an indirect relationship to terrorists overseas is not the same as a direct one. It wasn’t a question of culpability, but rather in how far we’re willing to extend the rights of an ‘American’.

I’m in complete agreement that the younger Tsarnaev is guilty in this (mind you, I don’t like the ‘weapons of mass destruction bit’, but that’s another story), and any ‘reasoning’ he has for it doesn’t diminish his guilt one bit.