Finally a vet connection to the Empire State shooting
Biermann sends us a link to CNN who finally was able to connect the gunman outside of the Empire State Building to the military. Yup, he was in the Coast Guard in the 1970s. I know there were Coast Guard in Vietnam, but Jeffrey Johnson, 58 turned 18 in 1972 after all US combat troops were withdrawn, so it’s not likely that Johnson served in combat, so it may be difficult for them to blame his actions on PTSD or other war-time trauma.
The shooting might dissuade the New York police Department from continuing their use of the 9mm, though;
Johnson died from nine gunshot wounds in his chest, the medical examiner’s office said. Three bullets were recovered from his body, while another four bullets exited his body, the medical examiner said. No explanation was given for two apparently unaccounted for bullets.
When it takes nine hits to kill someone who is shooting at you, time to change guns. However, if they’re going to be such poor marksmen, maybe the public is safer with the cops using 9mm;
Nine pedestrians suffered bullet or fragment wounds in the hail of gunfire, all from shots fired by police, Kelly said. Three passers-by sustained direct gunshot wounds, while the remaining six were hit by fragments, Kelly said.
I erroneously, in my original post, linking to Fox, said Johnson had been fired the day before from his job where the shooting took place. I seems he’d been stewing in his apartment over the firing for a year. And, oh, yeah the CNN article mentioned that the victim, Steven Ercolino, 41, had filed a complaint with the local courts about Johnson in which he said he anticipated his fate. So, not only did government fail to protect bystanders in the incident, by training their officers to look beyond the target when firing in a crowd, they also failed to protect the intended victim by disregarding his complaint.
So let’s write some more gun laws, shall we?
Category: Guns, Liberals suck
Gagger Man imploding in 3…2…1…
Further proof that flies in the face of the anti-gunners that no matter how vigorously waved, a piece of paper ain’t gonna stop someone with a gun determined to use it to put more holes into you than you woke up with that morning.
There’s nothing wrong with filing a complaint or taking out a restraining order. It makes for good history if/when that 911 call gets made.
That being said, however…I’ve never seen a restraining order PROTECT anyone from anything.
Think I’ll keep my .45.
I wasn’t there, nor am I a police officer. But it seems to me that having a sidearm with a 12 lb trigger pull, may possibly contribute to being a tad more inaccurate as well. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2012/08/foghorn/nypds-choice-of-firearm-may-have-contributed-to-the-terrible-shooting/
Shotgun…that is just asinine. The “good idea fairy” must have been buzzing around the day the higher ups made that decision
I have always thought it absolutely cruel to encourage frightened people to obtain an exparte, stay away, or peace order. To state what you all see, no piece of paper will stop anyone from harming another individual unless that piece of paper is a permit to carry a concealed weapon. To paraphrase Ronald Wilson Reagan, government is the problem, not the solution.
Ok, so to combat ND, the NYPD forces a 12-lb trigger on sidearms, but doesn’t offset that with appropriate training? Am I missing something here?
The only gun control that could have lessened this tragedy would be for the NYPD to teach their officers not to mag dump on an armed suspect while on 5th Ave during rush hour.
A man has been murdered and Jonn Lilyea and his sycophants wish to turn it into lobbying for less gun laws, I am ashamed that I served in the same uniform as you guys.
That’s “fewer” gun laws, you mouth-breathing, booger-eating, sister-fucking dipshit.
And there are over 20,000 gun laws already on the books and that did fuck-all to stop this clown from shooting someone in the most gun-restrictive city in the United States.
So tell me, shit-for-what-never-were-brains, how many more guns laws do you think it’ll take? OR, as has been pointed out by we “sycophants” time and again, would it be more prudent to allow citizens to carry, provided they can demonstrate a modicum of proficiency and responsibility with said arms?
Put more simply, cops don’t carry guns to protect YOU. They carry guns to protect themselves, which if last week was any evidence, they are pathetically inept at doing.
You may run along now.
K2B, They are discussing solutions like more training and not having a 12 lb trigger pull that would have helped out in this situation. You on the other hand are on here to spew your bile. Where you chaptered for paterns of misconduct?
#7 – Claymore, I’m sure it does offset, but then the bigger question is what and how much training DO they receive? Qualify once a year? Practice is enforced for once a month? 6 months? I don’t know. But a 12lb pull on a firearm can’t help at any rate.
#9 – Knees – “A ‘Murderer himself’ was killed before he could harm anybody else.’ FTFY.
Knees2TheBreeze (AKA DeWald) wouldn’t know much about that, NHSparky. According to his old IVAV bio, he’s never been anyplace where he’d need to worry about shots fired in anger. Well, not while he was in uniform, anyway.
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=1176
“Too bad” the media, oh so eager for the PTSD angle, could only find a Coast Guard connection for him (no disrespect intended).
This isn’t the first time a disgruntled ex employee acted crazy. You just never know when someone gets fired or let go.
But in this particular situation it was definitely not something out of the blue or ‘spontaneous.’ Apparently there was no love lost between the two, and even an incident where they got into a serious physical altercation on the job.
Oh, and DeWald: you’re correct in stating that “a man has been murdered”. He was murdered by an individual with an illegal weapon in NYC. NYC’s rather draconian gun laws didn’t prevent it. The murderer was later killed by the NYPD – reportedly when raising his illegal weapon, presumably to point it at another human target.
Last time I checked criminals don’t obey laws. That’s kinda why they’re called “criminals” in the first place.
Tool.
@9. Syncophant? Look, buster, just because we carry holy cards with Jonn’s picture on them, never, ever take exception to anything he ever writes, make burnt offerings to him each evening, and toast him reverently every Friday night does not make us his syncophants!
“So, not only did government fail to protect bystanders in the incident, by training their officers to look beyond the target when firing in a crowd, they also failed to protect the intended victim by disregarding his complaint.”
Jonn: In Castle Rock vs. Gonzales, the SCOTUS says that the police do not have a Constitutional duty to protect you. IOW Restraining Orders or Orders For Protection are about as useless as the paper they’re written on.
@9: We’re ashamed that you served in the same uniform as us, too.
Watch out, 2-17 AirCav – someone’s going to take offense. Be sure you don’t use Jonn’s complete, formal, legal name while you’re praising him. Remember what happened the last time you did that! (smile)
@9: Dresssing up for Halloween don’t count. @18: My thoughts exactly!
Bingo, Old Trooper. For those who might find that difficult to believe, here’s the decision:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/04-278.ZS.html
In many states, there is no cause of action against police for failing to protect a member of the public under any circumstance. The duty owed is a general duty that does not accrue to a specific individual. To put it bluntly, this means that a police officer can stand by and watch as someone is mugged, raped, robbed, or murdered. The officer would get fired, in all liklihood, ridiculed, to be sure, but in those states that recognize only a general duty of police to the public, the victim (or decedent’s survivor)would not win a civil suit filed against the police.
@16 Where can I get a picture of Jonn on a holy card?! I want one!!
Wizbang has the video of the police shooting. Notice all the innocent people surrounding the shooter and police.
@16 truer words on this site were never spoken.
Dewald, you’re wasting your virtual breath arguing with these clowns. Most of these pussies have never been involved in anything remotely resembling Friday’s events, but they’ll run their little mouths all day like they’re experts. They aren’t. They’re just a bunch of impotent middle aged losers trying to sound relevant, and take shots at a city whose gun politics they disagree with. Contrast this to their defense of the Haditha Marines who acted far more recklessly and actually KILLED people, including women, children, and an old man in a wheelchair.
@22: The SCOTUS ruled that for all states. Basically, you can’t sue the cops for not protecting you. I firmly believe that they should remove “To protect” from their motto in light of this information.
I find it funny that people like Old Trooper and Nhsparky are insulting the police when I highly doubt either one of them has ever been in a combat situation.. Those NYPD cops handled themselves better than you two would have.
@16, You mean I’m not supposed to have a shrine to Jonn in my closet?
@23. You don’t have one? I must say, PN, I find that very, very hard to believe. But, okay, I’ll play along. First, you must spin the TAH prayer wheel 54 times. (Don’t even try to say you don’t have one of those!) Then, face the District of Columbia, drop trow, do an about face, and bend over (please, for your own safety, it is important that you do this alone and for no longer than 5 seconds!) Next, send $5.99 to Jonn at his listed addresss and ask for a holy card. That’s all there is to it!
@13 Hondo, I read that link and it almost made my head explode. I like getting shot at or waking up on the floor of my Stryker just as little as the next man, but holy crap we signed on the dotted line knowing full well that that was a distinct possiblity, or maybe IVAW members signed a different contract than I did.
“Waking up on the floor of my Stryker after a VBIED” is what I meant to say. That link got me all discombobulated.
Knees2TheBreeze/DeWald: are you really so stupid you can’t see the irony of you disparaging others about how you think they might act in combat or a similarly violent situation? Your own former IVAV bio shows you never set foot in a combat zone, tool.
It’s well past time for you to go get yourself a nice big steaming mug of STFU.
IVAW guys are usually turds.
Here’s the video that 509th Bob mentioned;
Some info on NYPD training and shootings…
http://www.nyc.gov/html/nypd/downloads/pdf/public_information/RAND_FirearmEvaluation.pdf
http://www.pointshooting.com/1arand.htm
I guess you never want to piss off a “Puddle Pirate”.
That video clearly shows that Johnson only raised his weapon and never actually fired a shot at the cops. I guess fear does bad things to you when you live in it.
Sycophants? Us? Oh, I don’t think so. We don’t live behind the 8ft thick and 30ft high brick-and-mortar walls of anyone’s compound or run around in funny clothing, hating on our neighbors.
Pretty weak, k2b, you illegal obscenity. Watch what you step in. It gets deeper and deeper with you.
@28: I find you funny, too. How many times have you been shot at, hero? How many gunshot scars do you have, hero? Ask Lilyea, TSO, or Mr. Wolf if they have seen mine. Why don’t you pull your head out of your ass next time before you comment.
It seems to me that if the trolls don’t like what the rest of us here have to say there is a whole internet full of alternatives.
@28 Have you EVER been mistaken for a man?
The lawyers are the reason cops in NY have the heavy trigger and it does degrade accurate shooting. We call it the NY trigger. The only safety the glock has is what appears to be a small trigger within a trigger that prevents the primary trigger function until its depressed. is seems that liability wienies declared that the lighter trigger was too dangerous as an errant trigger could cause an unintentional discharge. Couple that with a terrified cop and the one shoots all shoot mentality and you have events like this. I am sure the cops arrived with adrenaline pumping (which affects/degreades fine motor skills. They saw an armed man, gotr tunnle vision and blazed away. Bad day for everyone.
You mean has Achmed gone, “BANG!” at me? Nope.
Then again, let’s compare VFW memberships–oh, right–you don’t have one. Now why is it a little squid like me would have one and you don’t? What do they know that you don’t?
Quite a bit, apparently. And FWIW, any submariner (especially a fast boat sailor) can tell you about “proximity” to the bad guys. Ask Bobo, Ray, 3364, Crochity, et al, if you don’t believe me.
Again, I don’t think MOST cops are like the Barney Fife types shown above. But it is VERY telling that a department which shells out over $100 million in claims EVERY YEAR has a problem with instances of shoot-don’t shoot like this, let alone what is piss-poor marksmanship.
I can almost guarantee I put more rounds down the range than these cops do. And I sure as hell know that pumping 16 rounds with 7 hits at that range frankly SUCKS BALLS.
Your turn, dipshit. Make sure you take your meds first so your reply is at least somewhat coherent.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Submariners are in “close proximity” to the bad guys. That’s the best joke I’ve heard all year. And the VFW remark is like the cherry on top. Guess what, dickhead; my GWOT deployments notwithstanding, I could qualify for the VFW solely on my KDSM and I didn’t do anything in Korea except get drunk and fuck as many whores as I could.
IVAW pukes seem like they were all about service until the time came to do what the military does, you know, go to war. Must have wanted all the bennies without putting forth any real effort. Selfish, self centered, egotistical, LYING, greedy little megalomaniacal wieners that don’t think about anything or anyone but themselves.
Funny thing about wannabes disparaging combat vets. No matter how loud or hateful they get, they will always be wannabes and never be combat vets.
#45, I think they use everything they can to justify their failures. They’re the ones who have to live with them.
Spent time in Korea paying pros for sex, eh? Probably the only way Gallagher Fan was ever able to get laid, given his obvious “winning personality”.
But everyone has a use. In Gallagher Fan I think we have might a demonstration of what happens when syphilis is left untreated too long and begins to affect the brain. As I recall, that’s what ended Capone’s criminal career. Capone reputedly died with the mental capacity of an adolescent child – as well as suffering from periodic episodes of acting like an outrageous, raving loon – due to untreated neurosyphilis.
Oh, and Gallagher Fan: yeah, the lads in the fast boats do get really close to the “bad guys” from time to time. Find and read a book called “Blind Man’s Bluff” for some details regarding past encounters of that type.
If you can still fully comprehend what you read, that is. You really should talk to a doctor about therapy for that positive Wassermann.
He’s cute, ain’t he Hondo?
Of course, what he doesn’t realize is the GWOT Medal doesn’t qualify him. GWOT EXPEDITIONARY, yes, however…
But hey, if I got someone like DeWald, et al, hating on me, that must mean I’m doing something right in my life.
NHSparky: Cute? Eh, no. Can’t say I ever found a pile of manure “cute”.
Impressive, perhaps – in a disgusting sort of way. But not “cute”.