The San Diego Gay Pride servicemembers
Apparently, winning the repeal of the Clinton era Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell policy towards gays is more important than winning any war against terror, at least in San Diego this weekend. From the Associated Press;
Dozens of soldiers, sailors, and Marines marched alongside an old Army truck decorated with a “Freedom to Serve” banner and a rainbow flag. They were joined by dozens more military personnel in civilian clothes, but the uniforms stood out among the flower-bedecked floats and scantily clad revelers.
Spectators waved signs reading, “Thank you for your service.” A woman held a placard that said: “My gay son is a Naval officer.”
“Today is so important,” said Navy Lt. Brian McKinney, who marched with his civilian partner, Hunter Hammonds. “It’s about putting on my uniform and taking pride in my service, my fellow service-members, my family and myself. It’s something I’m incredibly thankful for.”
Category: Military issues
Jonn, your opening sentence doesn’t make any sense…….nobody is drawing an equivalency between gay ‘pride’ and the ‘war on terror’.
Makes me angry to see this, not because I discriminate, but because these people have now risen above the “soldier” status and become a symbol for something that the Armed Services should never be.
Yeah, well, it makes sense if you understand that San Diego hasn’t hosted a welcome home parade for the troops like many other municipalities. And if you understand that one San Diego neighborhood is locked in a legal battle against establishing a PTS treatment facility for veterans.
According to the group Veterans of Operation Enduring Freedom, San Diego will host a Welcome Home parade on Sept 15th.
I’m on my phone now, or I would post a link.
So if I walk in a Heterosexual Pride parade…I can do so in uniform? No….one has nothing to do with the other. Gay, straight, black, white, asian, latino, I don’t care….do your job and I’ll do mine. But follow AR 670-1 or equivalent….
So a bunch of gay folks want to march in a parade? Got no problem with them wearing the “NAVY” Tees, for instance. Kinda makes my skin crawl just a bit, but I have no expectation of never being offended by the actions of others.
The uniform thing is a whole ‘nother deal. It is inappropriate for all the same reasons that they should not be worn at strip joints or a long list of other venues which might bring discredit to the military.
San Diego has had a welcome home parade for the military. It was largest parade since 1969. The parade welcomed back the sailors and Marines. It included 10,000 service members, and more than 100,000 spectators on May 17, 1991.
I’m all for the fact that the military no longer discriminates based upon sexual orientation. This cause was a large victory for those who had to hide their identies for so long. However, I am upset that service members are now openly allowed to use their uniforms as a political statement. Will it be om for me to wear my retirement blues at an FOP rally or maybe my next state governor’s campaign.
I see a very profound NAVY majority…heh heh heh
This is counter to what the military is about. The military is about uniformity and discipline denial of individualism and service to others.
Gay rights is about individual desires and giving in to adolescent impulses and celebrating perversity.
The two cannot co-exist.
@7: I see; so a parade 21 years ago is the same as a parade for OIF/OEF troops today? Ok, cool.
No, Old Trooper. That’s not what my friend, John, said. I provided the information that it had. Back then, when I lived in San Diego at the time, we were told “Mission Accomplished.” Indeed, someone else above said there is another one scheduled for this September. San Diego holds a military/veterans parade every year — and it always pays tribute to current service members who are still on operations.
As I gay soldier I, for one, am proud of my service. It is a relief to be able to serve openly, but I agree with the above posters. Marching in a pride parade, in uniform, is just unprofessional. We can be proud of our service, but special consolations should not be made for us. It is enough to stand side by side with my brothers in arms.
@10 I disagree about gay rights being about “individual desires, adolescent impulses, and perversity”. I personally feel equal rights under the law regardless of sexual orientation much more than an individual fight, but this is not the forum for such debate. Saying the two cannot exist is like saying religious freedom and the military cannot exist. Just because I’m open about who I am doesn’t make me any less a soldier.
@13: Well said. Someone once told me “Soldier first, officer second, MOS third. Your primary responsibility is as a soldier.” Sexual orientation doesn’t play into it any more than religion, or skin color.
This ‘debate’ for lack of a better term, ought to end there. I see this ‘one time allowance’ to wear uniforms in a political event is a mighty slippery slope.
Personally I think it’s disgusting. DADT worked reasonably well. Wearing the uniform at such an event is reprehensible.
I’m proud that my gay and lesbian friends, some who’ve served for over two decades, can now serve openly. The military has always been at the forefront of enforcing true civil equality in the US despite widely held belief otherwise. If it makes your skin crawl, it’s your problem. Fifty years ago people probably said the same thing about being ‘forced’ to live in a squadbay with people of different skin color.
Over the years I’ve known a corpsman who was as flamboyant as you can get without a boa and a currently serving Marine general who is a stone cold killer, everyone knew they were gay and nobody cared, it made me proud of the guys I served with who were able to truly judge these men by the content of their characters.
Sexuality should not be defining your job as a soldier to allow for special conditions or rules, period. Your identity is not hidden if we-the other soldiers don’t know your orientation– and we’ll never care as long as it doesn’t affect the mission.
But this does not reflect anything I can support. Above all, preferences of one group over the whole- ie every Soldier, sailor, airmen, marine. Where will it stop? This is what I mean by the fact the the services should never bow to PC. One rule gets bent and pretty soon, the rest of “us” are fucked.
This is going to backfire on the military badly.
First, because those in uniform unhappy with open service will see it as a sign of everything they feared coming true (I am in this group). And second, because now every group or sub-group in the military will have a legitimate greivance-why was one group allowed to wear their uniforms in an off duty event but not us?
The military is not an institution that can bend or break it’s own rules on a whim. For every rule that has an exception, there is a formal process for how that exception to policy is granted and at what level in the chain of command the decision to grant an exception can be made.
I’ve been following this story in the local paper, and I noticed something that I think is important. Nothing much happened, either before or after the demise of “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell”.
Our gay service members were required to keep their mouths shut about one of the major topics of friendly conversation. It wasn’t fair, it was discriminatory, it required a special discipline on their part, and they complied.
And when DADT got repealed, well, somebody ran a flag up a pole in Afghanistan and took some pictures, and now there’s been a parade.
My thanks and congratulations to the people who embraced the suck and made the repeal of DADT the big, fat nothing of a story it should be.
I see all these comments about serving openly and I must say that it is driving me crazy. Serving openly? Serving openly means putting your uniform on and serving where everyone can see you. Serving openly was a dream of the non-Whites after the re-segregation of the military. When they could wear the uniform in public and not be harassed because of their skin color. THAT is serving openly. Now, I see a large amount of GBLT members in the military talking about serving openly. Tell me this, were you forced to stay out of the view of the main gate or the more public areas of the post? Were you forced to stay in the barracks when the straight soldiers received passes? Were you forced to stand in the back of the formation when your unit formed up? Finally, were you bullied worse in Boot because of the way you looked? If you answer yes to any of these questions, then you are a frakking liar. You have served openly in the military since day one. The moment you marched past the grand stand in Boot (or whatever your branch does), you began serving openly. To say otherwise is an affront to those Black, Japanese, and Native American who served in WWII and Korea. To say otherwise is a blight upon the record of a great nation with an honorable military. However, you see serving openly as being able to broadcast to the world that you are a homosexual. Well, whoopty-doo. Congratulations. Now, you can go around telling all of your fellow Soldiers, Sailors, Marines, Airmen, and Coast Guardsmen that you are a homosexual without legal consequences. But, guess what, Skippy… there are other consequences than just legal ones. I don’t mean the possible beat down from the homophobic members of the military. What I am talking about the lack of respect you will be receiving. Imagine, if you will, a female service member coming out and telling her entire unit that she is a slut. You know, rather than just keeping her personal sexual life PERSONAL. What do… Read more »
Gay pride parades: setting gay rights back 50 tears.
@Flagwaver – “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell was not just about homosexual behavior. It was about ALL sexual behavior.”
No it wasn’t. I wasn’t barred from having a romantic relationship with a woman, or getting married and listing my spouse on official documents as next of kin.
If you were married while in uniform, you didn’t keep your sexuality to yourself. You broadcast to anyone around you, and anyone who had a remote part of paperwork for your benefits, that you were a heterosexual.
Sexual orientation isn’t just about what two people do in their bedroom….in fact, anyone who’s been married for awhile might attest that it’s a mighty small part [at least compared to what we would wish for]. To frame the sexual orientation argument as about the sexual act merely illustrates the shallowness of the opposition.
Beyond Flagwavers argument, the military has afforded allowances to many group and sub-groups with a far more voluntary premise than sexual orientation…this isn’t exactly groundbreaking. And since ‘PC’ exists across the spectrum, and is defined by one’s emotional response to an issue, that falls might flat as well.
I still disagree with DoD’s call regarding the parade, as provision #2 is too ill defined to adequately address this, or many other events.
#20 You said exactly how I feel and think about this topic. I could never write my thoughts as coherently, so thank you for expressing yours in such a intelligent manner.
Why is this allowed? I do recall a certain Marine who was involved in the TEA Party who has been ostracized by many here for not following military rule. I guess you must be on the “good” side of liberal policies in order to be allowed to be seen or heard.
DADT was brilliant in its simplicity and now we get this crap. Meanwhile that evil TEA Party Marine got the boot for speaking his mind on the internet.
I’m so sick of this shit, I could puke.
Just makes me wonder….what’s next on the “progressive” agenda?
@24: There’s a huge difference. In Gary Stein’s case, he asked higher for clarification about his website, was told to shut it down, and he did not comply. Not only that, he violated regulations regarding speech against the CINC. In this case, service members sent their participation requests through the chain of command, the individual commands ran it up to PAO at OSD as they are required to do for big events, and because of the volume of requests OSD decided to issue a blanket, one-time approval (with some stipulations, I might add). Comparing an active duty Marine’s failure to follow orders after seeking approval to service members seeking approval and receiving it doesn’t hold water.
It’s the decisions of command that I am questioning not the rank and file. This crap is hyper politicized and must stop for the good of the country and our military.
Frankly who doesn’t question the CINC any more? Did they ask any of the military members of the TEA Party website what they thought before they made the decisions they did?
I guess everyone just missed the guy wearing the Marine Corps flag as a cape around his neck.
Quote CI: “If you were married while in uniform, you didn’t keep your sexuality to yourself. You broadcast to anyone around you, and anyone who had a remote part of paperwork for your benefits, that you were a heterosexual.”
Actually, no you don’t. All you do is “broadcast” that you have married someone. Doesn’t say or prove a thing about one’s sexuality. If you make that assumption, that is on you not the marriage partners.
@27- Amen. That was the first thing I noticed.
What kind of Marine does that?
@OWB – Touche’. I’ll concede to you that the likely small number of people who married for cover, or to fleece benefits from DoD [orientation immaterial] provides some truth to this point.
But you know as well as I that the overwhelming majority of people who enter into a public act of commitment to each other, their sexuality is inherent to the gender of their spouse. In other words, the vast number of married Soldiers indicated that they were heterosexual by having a spouse of the opposite gender.
Because prior to DADT repeal, homosexuals could not do likewise under the UCMJ.
I am willing to bet a cold one that many of the people who attended in “uniform” are not currently in the military and perhaps have never served. It supports the agenda of the organizers to have a show of uniforms.
@20 I agree mostly with your thoughts. However, upon return from my deployments, was I allowed to embrace the man I loved as my fellow soldiers embraced their wives and husbands? Did other soldiers have to hide letters from their significant others while on deployment? Was I allowed to bring my boyfriend to the Army Ball or heck even the battalion Christmas party. Do you know what its like to hear the word faggot tossed about on every other word and to stand there and jokingly go along with it?
Integrity is huge to me, DADT forced me to LIE about who I was in order to serve my country. I don’t feel the need to flaunt my sexuality in the faces of my peers. As you said WHAT I DO BEHIND CLOSED DOORS IS MY BUSINESS, but I deserve the same rights as the men I fought and bled with to include those whom I care about and want in my life into my military life. I deserve the right to not have to LIE about who I am. Being gay makes me no less able to stand by you when the time comes for me to do so. You being straight doesn’t lessen the expectations I have for you as a fellow soldier.
Again wearing the uniform to the pride parade was the wrong answer, as would wearing the uniform at an NRA rally. DADT being repealled though, that I do agree with.
I don’t expect or want special treatment, I just want equal treatment.
I just got back from the Hillcrest neighborhood in San Diego, which has the best Sunday farmer’s market in the city. It’s a big one, and the produce is really great, but for me, the highlight is always the food booths, and then the flowers. This time I picked up a really exotic-looking orchid with a lovely scent. I will try not to kill it.
There was the rainbow flag on a pole when I drove into the area, and a couple of buildings had rainbow bunting. There were plenty of people around, none of them insistently calling attention to their private lives.
Hillcrest is a neighborhood that had gotten a bit worn down, until the artsy crowd moved in, and started fixing things up. There’s plenty of night life there, and a zillion small businesses. The rainbow flag and the parade didn’t have the total support of the business community, even though many of the business owners are gay. But, they’ve got a live wire or two right now, and this is how they are getting publicity at the moment. In my opinion, the parade and the flag are more about getting attention, curiosity, and visitors, (that is, business) than about the military or being gay. Yup, we’re talking about publicity stunts.
–However, upon return from my deployments, was I allowed to embrace the man I loved as my fellow soldiers embraced their wives and husbands?
Apparently for gay peoople it isn’t enough just to embrace. Now you can jump on your significant other and wrap your legs around them while in uniform. If my husband did something so blatantly sexual in uniform; he would be slammed to the wall. Repealing DADT just created another special group who gets away with murder– the reason most of us were against the repeal.
>>>If you were married while in uniform, you didn’t keep your sexuality to yourself. You broadcast to anyone around you, and anyone who had a remote part of paperwork for your benefits, that you were a heterosexual
Really? Sexuality is much more complicated that. How do you know I not bisexual but married to a man? Marriage has nothing to do with sexuality. .
I have never ever seen people more obssessed with other people’s sex lives than the military.
I love hot women.
I’ve never marched in a parade about it.
@melle – I’d wager you haven’t been to as many homecomings as others, if you haven’t seen that between hetero couples before.
But again with the ‘special groups’ business? Name for me a single right or privilege that gays now have, or could conceivably have [given that they are still unable to secure spousal benefits] as straights currently enjoy.
–Name for me a single right or privilege that gays now have, or could conceivably have
They can march in a parade that has political underpinnings..
@Melle – Touche’. I disagree with the call to allow marching in uniform, though the political underpinnings are vague and can be applied to a myriad of other events.
But is that really the ‘special privileges’ people were waxing ineloquently about before this recent issue?
BTW CI even San Francisco say that the gay pride parade was political..
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/williesworld/article/Gay-Pride-Parade-the-political-event-of-the-season-3658069.php
I’d have more respect for them if they didn’t march around in rainbow bikinnis flailing their dick in everyone’s face.
Just stfu and do you goddam job.
What party or politician did the parade support?
@35 Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. Not embrace but kiss. Or is kissing your partner after a year of not seeing them inappropriate? If your husband kissed you when he got home, would he have been discharged from the military? I don’t think so, but it was a VERY REAL possibility for me if I had done so. It is enough for me just to kiss or to hug the person I love. I know what is and isn’t inappropriate for uniform. It is INAPPROPRIATE, however, to judge all soldiers of a group because of the actions of a few.
@36 Marriage in the military has everything to do with being heterosexual. Gay marriage is not recognized by the military. If I chose to get married to another man, I would not be afforded on base housing as would a heterosexual couple. Additionally my spouse would not be entitled to ANY benefits as befitting another spouse. So yes, marriage on any type of official documentation is an admission of sexuality.
—What party or politician did the parade support
What party or politician is represented in a pro-life rally, and yet military members cannot march in uniform in them? Why, because it is still a polticial parade.
CI seriously? you wonder what party a gay pride parade supports? Have you spent the last 30 years in an ice cave or was it solitary confinement?
-So yes, marriage on any type of official documentation is an admission of sexuality.
So Jim McGreevy was straight because he married a woman?
I do not really have an issue repealing DADT. Openly gay servicemembers die the same as anyone else. However, special treatment is wrong, plain and simple. We all serve(ed) and we all wear the same uniform. We are not individuals but part of a greater whole that does and should not highlight one facet over another.
I guess those ideals are things of the past.
What is next? A pink beret or special ribbion to designate your background or preference?
The Pentagon really missed the boat on this one.
–Perhaps I should have chosen my words more carefully. Not embrace but kiss. Or is kissing your partner after a year of not seeing them inappropriate? If your husband kissed you when he got home, would he have been discharged from the military
No I said if he jumped me and wrapped his legs around me as the much politicized photo of the marine showed.. Despite CI’s contention that this happens all the time. In 21 years, I have never seen that and certainly not seen a servicemember in uniform do it. The military doesn’t ever just “accept’ something they must embrace it and push it as seen by the special treatment regarding this parade.
Furthermore I don’t know why you take pride in something that y’all say is genetic anyways.. but that is just me.