Of legal claims and medical records….
UPDATE: Not posting it, because it honestly doesn’t go to any of the actual questions. I think I am covered legally, but out of 4 lawyers surveyed for this, I got 2 on each side. So, just not worth it. Also, no one should be concerned about Blue Falcon’s threats. Hell, I just jumpy at a lot of things, this ain’t one of them, because (again) there’s no cognizable thing I have done wrong. If the bar calls me, I can present them with all the stuff (reams of documentation), but my guess is they would tell him to get lost anyway.
ORIGINAL POST:
To the Blue Falcon claiming he will contact the Mass Bar, please go ahead. Not sure you know how this all works, but I haven’t violated a single law.
Mr Jerry sent me the medical record. I don’t want to discuss it, except to say that I am unconvinced. Jerry also suggested that I should watch what I say about Poe’s DD214, DD215, and PEB/MEB stuff. It was not meant as a threat, so do not jump on him. However, his concerns so far don’t concern me. He was worried that disclosing those documents would violate HIPAA. They don’t, largely because HIPAA covers medical stuff, not other documents, and the PEB/MEB stuff is directly taken from the news station that he sent them to.
However, somewhat paradoxically, this medical record WOULD be covered by HIPAA. Now, Jerry has released it to me, and says Poe okay’d it, but I have no record of that. And to be perfectly honest, I don’t know how HIPAA works on third party disclosures. Anyone a lawyer out there that knows anything about HIPAA?
Again, I am 100% certain I have done nothing even arguably wrong. But just to be on the safe side with this medical thing, I could use an actual legal opinion. Anyone know someone?
*It looks like I was right about not knowing the law, because it is HIPAA and not HIPPA. It also looks like I might not be subject to it, but still need a lawyer if anyone knows one. Want to be sure. And lord knows that my income from this blog won’t cover the $200 an hour to make sure.
Category: Politics
Not a lawyer but I cover the courts for a newspaper and have seen a few things like this. In the one or two times I have covered an issue like this, it has boiled down to whether or not the person whose form it is has authorized you to use it in such a manner that you have. Again, not a legal opinion but what I have seen covering the courts for 14 years. Hippea’s not that old but you get the idea. I think you are okay but I am sure there is a JAG or someone out here who can help you.
Andy in Peoria
I work with the VA in DC and on HIPAA. It only applies if you’re a health care provider.
“Jerry” whomever that may be, is not allowed to release to anyone else records released to him without the expressed consent of the patient to whom the records belong.
I work at a VA.. If you want your records released to say you wife, you signe a release stating that is who gets them. She can not then turn around and release them to someone else.
Your VA Dr wants you get copies of outside medical, a release is signed with the Dr/Hospital outside and med records are sent to the VA. They become part of your record, BUT they can not be released outside of the VA to anyone, a release has to be obtained with the original Dr/Hopsital..
Pretty much, i would not publish squat without it comeing directly from the individual, and with a release written up and signed by them releasing them to you to publsih.
Oh, and an insurer…
@rb325th Check the law. It doesn’t cover 3rd party liability.
Working for a health insurer I can tell you that you can not share the info unless you have written approval from the party involved. I deal with HIPAA all day. Any sharing of medical information with third parties must be for the purpose of medical reasons save one exception: When that information is requested by a law enforcement agency and then they must have a subpoena for the information.
I can’t tell you how many times we have put in the crosshairs for accidentally sending information to the wrong party by accident.
I’ll click some ad links here, then Jonn can cover the lawyer fee.
No, the law does not cover 3rd party, but jerry would be liable. it is perfectly legal to rlease information that was given to you by someone else who obtained it legally.. Just double checked with the Privacy expert here.
@6, but since you’re an insurer, you’re not a 3rd party. The reason why the burden is on you is because if you share it with a 3rd party, and they’re not also part of the system that’s governed by the same rules they can do what they please with them. This includes PII if it’s given to a non-Gov’t agency.
For instance, I get my records from the VA. I give them to my neighbor in case my house burns down. He decides to show them to people at the next homeowner’s association meeting. I can’t run to HIPAA for enforcement. Neither can I make a privacy claim.
On a side note… is this clown getting disability based on his claims? If so, a VAIG investigation would be the best route to go for here. let them investigate him and fry his lying ass
On the question from rb325th, reference Poe’s VA benefits; we’ve got a guy at the DVA OIG office working on it. They reached out to us last night.
http://Www.jamessmithpa.com
You can download your DD214 and your discharge orders through Ebenefits DOD website. I know because I’ve done it myself.
So “losing” your paperwork is a BS excuse!
I also have multiple awards for AAM and ARCOM because I did boards becoming Soldier of the Year for Brigade Level as well as NCO of the year at Brigade level in addition to becoming an Audie Murphy member. I kept all my citations and orders because most folks would not believe an E-5 Sgt could get so many awards in such a short time.
I was discharged because of disability back in 2003 and I had to have everything on paper before I left Germany!
Summary of HIPPA link
http://www.hhs.gov/ocr/privacy/hipaa/understanding/summary/index.html
Not to shatter your ego TSO but you wouldn’t be the first person whose license to practice law I got revoked. Apologize by cob or I will be on the phone most ricky tick tomorrow.. You’re in alot of trouble son.
FOIA: when i got one from POW Network from turning in a Poser, I recieved a letter from HRC and a list of awards-badges, earned, rank TIS and Rank at the time of the discharge and type of discharge,schools attended. but it does not state why the person was discharged or any medical backgroud.
Blue Falcon, I will save you the wait, not going to happen, I did nothing to violate any ethics, I ran it all by lawyers first, and please, have at it. Just make sure you state a specific cause. Defamation won’t work due to truth as a defense. Also, you should look up what being a public person does to that analysis.
@9 Scott The situation you described is when you gave the records to a neighbor. Once again these are your records under your control. You gave them up. If your neighbor shares them there is a case for implied consent on your part. The issue comes down to the originating party of the information.
It is indeed murky sometimes but it boils down to a matter of did the party which gave you the information have permission to do so in the first place. Granting one party or person access to your medical records does not authorize the release of that information beyond that point. If so divorce lawyers would be having a field day with spousal medical records all the time.
Say you receive a medical statement in the mail for a different person. Just because you came in possession of that information you do not have the right to share that information with the world.
How you got the information is irrelevant from that point on unless the owner of that information gave you permission. Period.
@14: Why wait until tomorrow? If you want to do it “ricky tick”, then stop pounding your flaccid member and do it.
You have to remember one thing; many have said about the same as you and yet none of it ever happens.
BF…I’m not a lawyer but I’ll throw a little wrench in your works. Define standing as it relates to civil action.
Now suck start a shotgun till it cums.
@Just a Grunt (#17). HIPAA does not apply to the neighbor in that situation described by Scott. State or local statutes might, but not HIPAA. The law is very clear about who is covered by HIPAA and who is not. Health Care Providers, Health Care Institutions, Health Clearinghouses (online medical record depositories) and Insurers.
Let’s go with a generic example:
Person A (Physician) receives a signed release from a patient to send records to Person B that is compliant with HIPAA requirements. At that point, person A is NOT RESPONSIBLE for what Person B does with the records under HIPAA. If Person B releases the information they may or may not be covered by various laws/statutes. If Person B is another physician, they are covered by HIPAA and can’t release the information.
If Person A is a student who submits medical records to a college or university to ask for disability accommodations, the records are not covered by HIPAA. They ARE covered by FERPA (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act)
If person B is actually a court of law (as apposed to an individual), the medical records are then treated as a public record unless you have asked the judge to seal that portion of the record and your request was granted.
If person B is a reporter, your next door neighbor or great Aunt Sally they simply aren’t covered by HIPAA.
Just to add a little fuel to this (sorry TSO)
Office of the Bar Counsel
99 High Street
Boston, Massachusetts 02110
(617) 728-8750
What Your Complaint Should Contain
In order for the investigation to proceed, it will be necessary that you provide as many facts and as much documentation as possible. Although you may feel certain that the acts complained of constitute misconduct, a simple statement that misconduct has occurred is not enough.
You should note unless there is a violation of the Rules of Professional Conduct, discipline will not be imposed.
URL for said Rules of Conduct: http://www.mass.gov/obcbbo/rpcnet.htm
If you read carefully most if not everything in that relates to acting in your capacity as a laywer especially in relation to/for clients.
Since TSO isn’t offering any kind of legal opinion and simply commeting based on his experiance as a Vet and why based on the available information this story doesn’t pass muster. GOOD LUCK.
-Ish
I’ve got to second what Just A Grunt said about implied consent.
I injured my knee in Iraq. Nothing big, just fractured the knee cap while being a dumbass and slammed my knee on an MRAP door right before I came home.
When I came home I found I couldn’t wear dress shoes all day, as per my company’s dress code. So I bought a pair of black sneakers that went well with my suits and called it good. Then came the call from HR, where I was put on notice that failure to follow the dress code was a firing offense. When I explained the situation to them, they requested a copy of my medical records to validate my injury. I authorized the VA to release them a copy of my medical records.
A few months later my employer published an article about “Wounded Warriors” in the company and featured me as one of the soldiers. As part of the story they released details that could have only come from my medical records and the LOD.
I was pissed, but when I spoke to both the VA and a private attorney I was told it was a matter of implied consent, because I couldn’t prove that I hadn’t authorized them to use those records for that purpose (even though I hadn’t authorized them to use me in the story in the first place).
The impression I have is that releasing your records to non-medical folks is a dangerous and risky thing to do.
Med Records are moot anyway…
1) ONE of his ex’s is telling media he is a “dead-beat dad” and that she had him arrested for domestic abust. (The first of course is subjective, the second perhaps verifiable.)
2) He lied about not singing before (when was part of a band)
3) He lied about a tour of duty in Iraq
4) He lied about being shot in the leg in Iraq
5) He lied about a BSM and two PHs
6) He lied about a CIB
7) He exaggerated his number of other awards
8) He provided photos purportedly of himself in action that turn out to be photos of other soldiers.
I’m not an atty but I think the term “Preponderance of Evidence” says that anything else he says is highly suspect if not pure trash. How much more does one need.
Hi Peggy, and just like TSO has in his update this is why even the lawyers are split on the issue. You are right in that HIPAA is directed health care providers and entities and other privacy laws pertain to the population in general but in all cases I always urge folks to err on the side of caution.
For everybody else reading along, welcome to the wonderful world of HIPAA brought to you courtesy of the Clinton administration and the source of so much angst in the LGBT community. Good intentions that simply have gone astray.
Just A Grunt-
The regulations can get very confusing and providers don’t always make sure people understand the limits of confidentiality (e.g. your records can be subpoenaed by a court of law), much less the basics of what releasing your personal healthcare information to another person means. This is why I make sure all my patients understand that if they sign an ROI and the records are released, I have no control over (or responsibility for) what the person they signed them over to does with them. If it is a friend/relative/family member, chances are good they aren’t covered by any privacy or confidentiality laws.
If Mr Poe claimed he was injured by an RPG in his military health records, and if he used that as evidence to obtain disability, and since the large amount of evidence shown to date shows he was never in any direct or indirect combat action in his very brief time in Afghanistan… he would have comitted fraud.
I hope to hell he did claim it in his records, and I hope to hell he shows all of us those records to “prove” his fraudulent case. His own statements transcribed into his medical records 9as has been pointed out) do not mean that it happened. It will prove though that he was hell bent on getting his lifetime supply of easy money from Uncle Sugar.
habitual fraudulent behavior seems to be his hallmark. I would not doubt that was the case. Sure hope someone who has the pull can get that investigation rolling..
SGT Kane-
Next time you need something like that ask your VA provider to write a generic letter to the company stating that you can’t wear the formal dress shoes all day for medical reasons. The letter can be put in to CPRS and mailed to the company (that way you are covered if they insist on requesting it directly from the VA).
Can’t Jonn block the trolls? They offer nothing to any thread, ever. Personal attacks, personal insults and retard logic (no insult to the mentally challenge) have no place here. I would like someone to point out to me, what have ‘dude’ or ‘blue falcon’ (aka drunk dave) added to this thread? I haven’t always agreed with what everyone has ever posted but I have yet to attack or insult.
ISH- I honestly can’t wait to hear which part of the code I violated.
Also, I wonder if they have me listed as “Mr. TSO” or if I am like Bono, just one name.
Or “The blogger formerly known as…”
Why BLOCK the trolls? We need a little comedy relief now and then.
TSO, shouldn’t they be calling you ‘General’ TSO? BTW, I love your chicken!? 😮
Check to see if DD214s are public record in Texas.
Thanks Jonn. I am sure he is not the only one whose claims deserve a once over, but he was dumb enough to go on National Television and tell his tales.
I didn’t read everyone’s posts, so forgive me if I repeat someone. I worked for years in the medical records dept. of health care, then several more years in the front office of a sports team. The one thing I can say about medical records and HIPPA regulations is, only the dr. who wrote (or the person who they are about) can release them. I’m not 100% sure but I’m 99.9% sure that, if the owner (i.e., patient) of the records releases them knowingly to someone in the media, they can be reused and s/he won’t have a legal leg to stand on about privacy issues. The reason I mentioned working for the sports team is because we would have lawyers trying to get copies of any medical records we had on a player and we legally couldn’t release those. California law and HIPPA proscribed it. The lawyer needed to go to the issuing dr. (I had a lawyer challenge me on that. I quoted the appropriate legal code to him which, now, many years later and no longer in either industry, I could no longer do without research. He backed down and moved on.)
I do love the “I’m going to sue you!” crap from the Poser crowd and their supporters.
As a side note, I find it sad that America cares more about some douche on a reality show posing than a guy who could make it into congress posing. Ken Aden is who I speak of.
After intense review of medical law, I have come to the conclusion that as long as you don’t OWN, or pretend to own a HIPAApottamus, you should be ok.
“You’re in a lot of trouble, son.”
Inserts sound of fapping to one’s own nonexistant takedowns.
Does getting hit with the first threat of libleslanderlawer count as proper attribution for the deed?
I can’t help but suspect that by virtue of the name used that the BlueFalcon post was a parody. Or at least that’s what I hope *facepalm*
rb325th is correct when he stated “No, the law does not cover 3rd party, but jerry would be liable. it is perfectly legal to rlease information that was given to you by someone else who obtained it legally.. Just double checked with the Privacy expert here.”
The persons saying they work here and there saying they can’t release it is because of where they work. I had a coworker try to play the HIPAA card once because other employees were talking about always being “sicK”. His complaint was quickly squashed. (Yes it went through Legal).
Maybe Blue Falcon is “Ronad” Mailahn’s “Lawer”, here to get us all in a lot of trouble, ricky tick…
I am a person who must utilize the consent of release for medical info on my SIL. With this, I can get medical information and test results, etc…if needed.
When working in a Doc office, the manager used to yell at me for even saying a patient name in front of another patient claiming that I violated HIPAA. Not.
I doubt that TSO can be touched on this one or any other allegations by local trolls…
So BF, have a nice hot, steaming cup of STFU, already, won’t you, son?
Ann: sadly, I don’t think BF is a parody. The Refreshments were correct years ago in Banditos:
“Everybody knows
That the world is full of stupid people . . . . “
gawd i go to bed and you guys have fun. bastards.
Has anyone come to the conclusion that Blue Falcon is a Internet Tough Guy?
Poe? is that you?
Naw, S&L – just one of the pet trolls that come out to play from time to time. “They” are so delusional that “they” think using multiple names makes “them” appear to be more important because there are more of “them.” Silly.
OWB, true
Its like being in a platoon again with a bunch of broke dick privates. You just look at them and think “Really? I am supposed to believe this?”
Just a idea,could the red Bulls infro lockdon be the cause of the CIDs starting a 15-6 on Craven Poe?
Joe Williams: a minor quibble: CID wouldn’t do get involved in a 15-6; they’d do a criminal investigation. 15-6s are command actions.
I guess the MN ARNG could be doing a 15-6 investigation. Though why they would at this point other than CYA escapes me – unless perhaps they have reason to think someone leaked Poe’s records w/o authority.
However, I frankly doubt CID would get involved in this. Poe was medically retired over a year ago. While retirees are technically subject to the UCMJ, it’s exceedingly rare for CID to go after someone who’s retired for acts occurring post-retirement. I’ve never heard of that happening. My impression is that it’s far more common for CID to investigate someone for pre-retirement behavior that came to light later. And I also have the impression that even that’s fairly rare.
It’s also not absolutely clear that Poe’s even covered by the UCMJ any more. Retirees from a regular component clearly are. But I don’t know if Poe being medically retired from the MN ARNG (a Reserve component) falls into that category or not.
The only things I can see that Poe might have done pre-retirement that violated the UCMJ are malingering (if he faked/exaggerated his injuries) and false statements (lying to medical personnel). And I just don’t see CID going after someone 2 or 3 years after the fact for those unless they think they have an absolutely slam-dunk case – and maybe not even then. CID has the same resource and manpower problems that everyone else in the Army and DoD have today.
Silly Hondo, do not underestimate the legal culpability you gutless fiends assume when you’ve committed libelslander.