A conscientious objector application
Some halfwit named Air Force Staff Sergeant Nathan Rodriguez thought it would be a great idea to post his application for conscientious objector to Lew Rockwell’s website. His explanation of his views is fairly typical of what we’ve heard over the years, Raised in a Republican home, growing up as a conservative, the “horrors” of war that he witnessed as an Air Force commo guy and what he “studied” led him to his suddenly anti-war leanings.
he begins his story telling us that he joined the Air Force as a stepping stone to a career as a politician, and I’m guessing that goal hasn’t changed since, instead of quietly filing his application and hoping for the best, he’s broadcasting his intentions to the world to make a name for himself.
Abiding by the Non-Aggression Principle, and adhering to Scripture, I realized that my service was in direct contradiction to my personal beliefs. This came to fruition before my deployment to Afghanistan in July 2011. The duties I carry out directly leads to the loss of life. This fact has been stated numerous times during official AF classes and formal gatherings, such as CC calls, and official creeds.
The thought of me as a “warrior” for the USAF is a nauseating one. I do not wish to fight any man or group of people I have never interacted with or who have never caused harm to my life or property. It is obvious wars are fought between states and not between the people, though others would have everyone believe otherwise. I am surrounded by this nationalistic aura that I fail to agree with. I am encouraged to be proud of the military heritage, and what is has supposedly accomplished. I am expected to give respect to murderers in the name of the beloved country. All these sentiments weigh heavy in my soul and the toll of my mind has been great.
I don’t know how many people he had to murder as an AF commo guy, but I’m guessing I could easily count to that number even though I’m merely an infantryman. I’m guessing that the political climate has changed since he put his grand political plan into action and since he liked the beer more than he liked taking college classes got in the way of educational plans, so he wants to get out of the service and play with someone’s private parts instead of being an airman.
No matter what job he has in the Air Force, he was never a “warrior”, he’s just little pussy who has been gobsmacked by reality. Nothing in that letter indicates to me that he is really a conscientious objector.
Thanks to JP for the link.
Category: Shitbags
Unfortunately, CO status is something that should be claimed prior to enlistment. It doesn’t take a comm bubba to figure out what happens when you join the military, any branch. Claiming it at any point in time, especially prior to a deployment just makes you look like a giant chickenshit,or, if you will, A MATTHIS.
Sorry, should read “Claiming it at any OTHER point in time.
Here’s my briefly eloquent synopsis of douchebag’s statement:
“I do not wish to fight any man or group of people I have never interacted with or who have never caused harm to my life or property”
(Then why did you join the military (especially in a time of war), you assjumper, instead of joining some shit like the Peace Corps or the Girl Scouts? What the fuck did you think “military” and “war” implies? And do you remember 9/11, USS Cole, WTC attacks of the 90’s? I would call that “intent to harm your life and property”, fuckstick)
“I am encouraged to be proud of the military heritage, and what is has supposedly accomplished.”
(Damn right you should be proud of the military heritage, without it you wouldn’t have all your rights, including your right to be a pussy.)
“I am expected to give respect to murderers in the name of the beloved country. All these sentiments weigh heavy in my soul and the toll of my mind has been great.”
(Give me a fucking break. Almost everyone I know, vet or active, is disgusted by the FEW cases of guys going nuts and killing people. Do the fucking math, shitbird, out of how many troops deployed there, how many have committed “murder”? The last thing we need is another weak minded, self and country hating politician that doesn’t understand math, to boot)
Now, I’ll agree, war is hell and the war in Afghanistan is a clusterfuck thanks to bad leadership and no clearly defined mission, our military is being held back from kicking the enemy’s ass thoroughly and going home. But that does not give some Air Farce commo fobbit the right to shit on everyone else. And for the record, being libertarian doesn’t mean being a pussy. Stop shitting on my political ideology.
Okay, so he’s a Staff Sgt. (E-5), meaning he’s almost certainly reenlisted at least once, yet only now figured out the Armed Forces exist to kill the enemy and break their shit. More likely than not he’s one of the butthurt who didn’t want to deploy.
Further proof that that Lew Rockwell shit’ll rot your brain.
Goddamn AF Comm guys…:P
Anyhoo- not a lot of AF Comm guys with that name in the GAL. @ #4, making SSgt in the USAF doesn’t imply you’ve reenlisted at least once. The promotion rates for E-5 have been holding around 50% for some time now. I’m considered a slow burner for putting on at over 5 years.
Oh but I should mention, you’re right on the CO bit, it’s a bit late to realize what the endgame is.
I’m considered a slow burner for putting on at over 5 years.
It’s a pretty good indication, being that IIRC, you have to have 36 months TIS and 20 months TIG (or 28 months TIG) just to make E-4, and then an additional six months as E-4. So yeah, you’re looking at a bare minimum of 34 months, and closer to 42 months to make E-5 even if you make it first time, every time.
Bottom line–he’s been around long enough to know better. I might expect this from some boot E-2. But a Staff Sergeant? Yeah, not so much.
Yeah what it seems more like is: I didn’t get my way on something so now I want an quick/easy way out, but I can’t go the DADT route anymore.
Here is the Army’s CO regulation (which is probably similar to the AF): http://www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/ar600-43.pdf
nothing in this letter signals CO qualifications. He still needs to go in front of a board, however.
USAF CO reg: http://www.e-publishing.af.mil/shared/media/epubs/AFI36-3204.pdf
Well, paragraphs 3.2.9 and 4.2.5 are interesting, as well as this:
Noncombatant Duties or Service—Service in a unit of the armed forces that is unarmed at all times.
Service in a medical department of the armed forces, wherever performed. Any other assignment that
does not have a primary function which requires the use of arms in combat, provided that such other
assignment is acceptable to the member and does not require the member to bear arms or to be trained in
their use. Note: Service aboard an armed ship or aircraft or in a combat zone is not considered
combatant duty unless the member is personally and directly involved in the operation of weapons.
Well if it’s the comm guy I found in the GAL (by the exact same name), it’s not like he’s in JCSC or Combat Comm. I’m a little confused on how he’d be selected as a “combat advisor”.
Well I’m a bit wrong in that quote from the reg, even us comm guys have to qualify with our weapons.
Used to have to deal with CO’s. And there really are a few that have a righteous epiphany well into a service contract. A few.
Of those few, each and every one ended up in the Chaplain’s office for assistance in balancing their military obligation with their new faith, wanting to fulfill both.
Much like the phony SF wannabe creeps, phony CO’s tend to talk about it too much with too many people. The real ones have serious conflicts while coming to terms with how to continue their military service and be true to their faith.
Doesn’t this nimrod realize that the evil duo of Bushitler and Dath Cheney aren’t in charge anymore?
Send his ass the some artic weatherstation then.
The only thing that I can honestly say over this is. Give him a shovel and tell him to man up. I don’t think for one second he is a real CO. Seems to me like he just doesn’t want to deploy.
I say no biggy, let him out and deny him benefits. I’m sure someone with such high moral standards wouldn’t want to accept money or other benefits from a source they deem ungodly or immoral, right? 😉
have said for years the service is too easy to enter and too hard to leave. I’d go further than Jacobite, though…. get him out FAST on a less-than-honorable based on the fraud he perpetrated on the government when he took his oath.
Are you guys at TAH giving out “AssClown” awards? I’d vote for this clown to get one. I’m sure he could run for mayor of San Francisco– if he could afford to live there.
I was an investigating officer a few times on CO cases. That was some time ago realities change….most certainly during war time but the ones I talked to that were sincere knew they had a committment to uphold and were still willing to follow through. Most of them were placed into non-combat roles, and I mean serioue non-combat like pushing paper at Theater Command or III Corps. So far up they no longer saw the ground. A few got processed out.
There are several ways to test but most COs, or those that claim it, just want out but still want thier benefits. In fact they get indignant about the idea of loosing them.
The best example of a CO is SGT York. We all know the story but the fact is when the chips were down he did what he had to like the rest of us. Not because he liked it, not because he was an animal but because it had to be done. He did not shirk his duty. That is the test. The only test.
Sounds as familiar as when the wars began. All the people who joined the military thinking they’d never see actual combat; they were just in for the medical benefits, college, a paycheck, etc. Then when the war started and they would be deployed, all of a sudden it was as if their “easy” life wasn’t going to be so easy anymore. Because before Afghanistan and Iraq it wasn’t really about fighting and winning our nation’s wars. It was about college, medical and dental, regular pay, and so on. “What’s all that WAR stuff getting in the way of my job? I didn’t sign up for war, I signed up for college…”
I have no sympathy and if he wants to get out because of CO, then he should definitely forfeit his benefits willingly, since veteran benefits are for us “murderers” after all.
Here’s my recommendation: offer him an immediate voluntarily reclassification as a Chaplain’s assistant or medical orderly with immediate deployment to Bagram AB. As I recall, both qualify as noncombatant specialties.
If he still balks, it will be obvious to all that he’s not a true CO – because COs can and have served in combat before in non-combat specialties. Three have even been awarded the MOH for their non-hostile actions while serving in combat:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desmond_Doss
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_W._Bennett_%28conscientious_objector%29
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_G._LaPointe,_Jr
The last URL above has a period at the end, which appears to conflict with this board’s software. Manually add a period to the URL after the first failure and LaPointe’s page will show correctly.
Hondo – Chaplain’s assistants ARE combatants, charged with protecting both their own AND their chaplain’s asses.
If I remember correctly, it is an all-Volunteer force. No draft (Sgt.York)or gun was put to this clown’s head to join up. He rose his hand and swore an oath. CO status after several decades of no draft? How could that even be entertained? Immediate PCS to Leavenworth-the Disciplinary Barracks, not CG&S.
OWB – my error; I thought Chaplain’s assistants also qualified. But I checked the text of the First Geneva Convention of 1949 and you’re correct – outside of medical personnel, only Chaplains qualify. Their assistants don’t.
Chaplain Assistants carry weapons and generally not ordained.
Correct, SIGO. But hospital orderlies and ambulance crews don’t have MDs, either. They’re specifically recognized under the Geneva Conventions for special status, as are medics/nurses/doctors. Chaplains are; chaplains assistants are not.
Don’t understand the distinction myself, but it’s there.
And for what it’s worth: as I recall, combat medics and corpsmen in World War II in the Pacific theater also often if not routinely carried weapons. It was also not unknown in the European theater.
“Son, there ain’t no draft no more.”
“There was one?”
Yeah. Dipshit is Cat IV, commo or not.
Is a lobotomy standard issue when in processing in recruit training now-a-days? Maybe they should let this ‘limp dick’ finish his current tour with the Girl Scouts, it’s the one place I’m sure he’d fit right in. Unforkin’ believable, he can’t hack the Air Force?? What a puss!
Fucktard didn’t grasp that the silhouttes on the firing range are human-shaped for a reason? The mind reels…
The Air Force has firing ranges?!? Next you’re gonna tell me they’re considered members of the Armed Forces of the United States!! : o
SIGO and Hondo, Chaplains Assistants are also not even required to practice religion. There actually are Agnostic and Athiest Chaplain’s Assistants. They are there to assist the Chaplian in setting up for services, handling the admin, and protection.
Not to get all “preachy,” but that boy may want to take a closer look at Scripture before citing it as reason for CO status. Clearly he’s never heard of Just War Theory or read the Bible.
theanthistemi.blogspot.com
Oh, and since this is my first time commenting on here: Semper Fi and You bastards are hilarious.
Joel, the article states I rejected Just War Theory. I have no problem with self-defense, it’s when war-funds are coercively taken from people who happen to be born within some arbitrary borders.
I have only been in 5 years, with no reenlistments, my first contract was six years. I was notified I made E-5 before I had been in 3 years. Most of the people on this forum definitely had not made rank that fast.
The fact I have never taken human life is true. However, it is implied, and corrected before official submission, that my job *indirectly* leads to the loss of life.
I am just curious as to why the attitude is so violent and vicious to my stance. I only wish to have no part of the military any longer. I am not condemning any other person who chooses to do so, but merely stating it is not a proper position on myself. This is the attitude that will bring down the US. If the year were 1776, everyone here would definitely be wearing red-coats, condemning me for not pledging allegiance to King George III.
Also, while in Afghanistan, with my philosophy already cemented in my being, I still worked. I even received multiple quarterly awards. When there was a convoy and they needed drivers or TCs, I was always the first to volunteer. I have yet to stopped working. The application is still in the process, if it gets approved, great, I walk away peacefully. If it gets denied, I stay working, peacefully. It’s nothing but a request.
Why the bloody hell are you in the military in the first place?
Joshua,
You are a piece of work. To suggest that you, over “most of the people on this forum definitely had not made rank that fast” is absurd and quite frankly insulting to all who have served. Further, if you are getting out … get the f#ck out and shut the f%ck up. Lastly, to suggest that if it was 1776, “everyone here would definitely be wearing red-coats, condemning me for not pledging allegiance to King George III”. Well you are wrong again son.
Lastly, indentify yourself … if your character is a strong as your views than you would. If not shut the f*ck up! But, I suggest that you are weak in character and you won’t.
PS: If you had worked for me in the Military … my size 12 steal toe boondocker would have been so far up your ass, you would have wished you crossed the Canadian Border and waited it out!
I was notified I made E-5 before I had been in 3 years. Most of the people on this forum definitely had not made rank that fast.
Two years, seven months to E-5. Almost six years to the day to E-6. Shove your smug condescention up your ass.
Jesus Christ on a unicycle kid, what did you think you were signing up for, a trip to Disneyland?
Sparky, were you a slacker? Just messin’ Sparky. Corporal in a year, almost to the day after graduating recruit training and Sgt on two years four months. I was told If re-upped I would be a Staff Sergeant of Marines by the end of my 2nd tour, six tears TIS!
Joshua, what branch are you serving in? In the Navy and Marine Corps you don’t get PO3 or Cpl (E-4) unless you’ve shown the qualities of leadership of a Non-Commissioned Officer. I know the Army has an (E-4) slot, Spc, that isn’t an NCO. I also know the Air Force doesn’t consider ANY (E-4) an NCO. Tell me you’re a sailor or Marine and I’ll give due respect to your promotion rate, otherwise STFU.
To my Army and Air Force brothers and sister, I mean no disrespect to your branches or promotion systems. For this twerp to use one minuscule part of his service to prove his superiority kinda pissed me off. As for airman Rodriguez, man up and admit you’re a coward.
joshua: Per the AFI relating to CO: “To approve a CO classification, the reviewing authorities must find that an applicant’s moral and ethical beliefs oppose participation in war in any form . . . ”
You’ve stated above that you accept self-defense, presumably as a justification for war, but that you reject “Just War Theory” (defensive wars presumably excluded). To me, it sounds like you don’t have an unconditional opposition to all war – just those wars with which you disagree. In that case, it appears you don’t qualify for CO status.
If those are your beliefs, my recommendation is that you do the rest of your tour – then get out and stay out. Those beliefs aren’t compatible with military service. Members of the military don’t get to pick and choose which wars they fight and which they don’t.
E-5 in three years? Big deal. I made E-5 in two years, four months. Ooooh, and I had to pass written and hands-on tests, too.
Hondo: I believe that personal self defense is justified. But to gather together an army with, again, funds stolen from people, i.e. taxes, to conduct war, that is immoral. Strictly, I am against war that any government/state wages.
Apologies, Yat Yes. I got a little defensive when I read all the names directed towards me (halfwit, pussy, giant chickenshit, douchebag, nimrod, clown, dipshit, fucktard, coward…).
To call me a me these manes is a little unwarranted. When I got orders I did not cry CO status, I went, I did my job, came home and then filed.
Again, I am still working.
joshua: OK, let me see if I understand you correctly. You’d be against the US using it’s armed forces (Army/Navy/Air Force/USMC) to defend itself if attacked or invaded by a foreign invader. But you’d be OK with people defending themselves from said foreign invader individually. Correct?
I was so good, I made E5 the first time in 2 years, then got put back to E4 to show the boots how to be awesome, then made GM2 again within a year…your move now Holy Man.
Joshua, if I remember correctly, just about 3000 of our citizens weren’t given the choice of self defense on 9/11.
Joshua, I agree name calling is not warranted and for the “twerp” comment I apologize. I do stand by my “to use one minuscule part of his service” comment. As has been proven, many of us were promoted to the same rank in shorter amounts of time. Some of us in systems that wouldn’t let you get to E-5 because you weren’t ready for E-4.
As for the rest…may I complain about having to pay property taxes, some of which are used to fund public education, even though my baby girl graduated high school in 2002 and her mom and I payed her way through ASU. I’m still paying property taxes even though my children, their mom and I are paying to send my granddaughters to private school? Why should I pay taxes that support public health care when I’ve been covered by an employer plan for more well over 20 years? Taxes pay for food stamps, unemployment insurance, welfare programs etc. I’ve never used any of them yet I keep paying.
mean?
* should have been “Do you see what I mean?”
“Halfwit, pussy, giant chickenshit, douchebag, nimrod, clown, dipshit, fucktard, coward” … here is another … “failure”.
If you want some guidance on how to properly use the CO card, review the story of CPL Alvin C. York of the Tennessee.
He was a true CO and worked through it HONORABLY with HUMILITY and GRACE.
Cpl. Alvin C. York, from the 82nd Division, fearlessly engaged the numerically superior German force at Chatel-Chehery, France, on Oct. 8, 1918 just a month before the armistice was signed. His citation reads: “… After his platoon had suffered heavy casualties and three other noncommissioned officers had become casualties, Cpl. York assumed command. Fearlessly leading seven men, he charged with great daring toward a machine gun nest, which was pouring deadly and incessant fire upon his platoon. In this heroic feat the machine gun nest was taken, together with four officers and 128 men and several guns.”
He never asked or wanted anything in return, turned down wealth and fame, only wanted to return to his home, to be with his family and his God.
Because of his beliefs, sworn obligations to his Country, and as a CO he went on to be one of our Nation’s greatest military examples of followership and leadership.