Tuesdays with Claymore
You thought I forgot, huh?
Racism, muthafu*ka, do you speak it?!
Laptop Dad…violent gun nut…probably a racist too.
Next, let’s vote on free speech.
Black helicopters over LA…did they vote for Obama too?
DUtards quoting Chuckie at LGF over racist Whitney Houston coverage?
“I left my stash, in San Francisco…”
Apparently all Christians are rapists and condone this behavior.
Looters will be harshly spoken too!
Should have just shot his laptop.
“Former” DUer makes more sense than current DUer’s?
Obama: The Center Right President
Quoting Al Jazeera on the Occupy movement…epic fail.
Here’s a question: How are you going to pay for it?
…then everyone applauded: Marine Corps Edition
So now the Democrats are right wingers too?
Throw him into the state Santorum.
DUer misses point…in other words, it’s Tuesday.
Category: Tuesdays with Claymore
The violent, racist, gun nut dad is my freaking hero.
Hey, I’m with Samuel – I hope Obama gets scary (i.e., assertive) next term, he’s been something of a p**sy these last three years….
Yeah Joe, I’m with Sam too, I’m voting for Romeny because he’s white okay?
hahaha…Laptop Dad is a racist…
You know what really sucks for liberals? They have no idea what the benefits are from tough love.
Why? YOU ALL know why!!
Because tough love hurts liberals to engage in…and the kid and that might lead to self-esteem issues…therefore, blame it on someone else…
Don’t know if I have the stamina to wade thru all the entries, but I have this to say: You tell ’em Tony!
“Bin Laden is dead, GM is alive”. You’re making our case for us Claymore. Thanks.
The only cases being made on DU is nut cases…no wonder you enjoy it so much.
Joe
What was Obama’s solution to “save” GM and Chrysler?? Close 20,000 dealerships leaving hundreds of thousands unemployed and selling Chrysler to a foriegn company…
Simple Old: Bailing them out long enough for them to reorganize and return to profitability. The brainpower and manpower were always there, they just needed the s**t scared out of them to get off their asses. The corporations themselves decided to close marginal dealerships – if you’re not selling many cars, which they weren’t for a time there, you cannot support a massive dealership network, unless you wanted some special new kind of auto dealership welfare Old, the kind of welfare which you so often rail against. Here’s another upside Old – as US cars sales begin to rise, some of those same dealerships are being reopened. How you gonna spin that to smear Obama?
“How you gonna spin that to smear Obama”? How about the fact that the dealerships closed were closed more because of ideology than sales? And, it was only done to give the worker’s collective(UAW) part ownership of the means of production.
And, I’ve yet to see or hear of any dealerships being reopened anywhere around here. Or, did you get that from Obama for Amerika?
Oh, and he’s going to tout Master Lock as a success story, because they brought back 100 jobs from overseas? While he shitcanned 20K jobs with the stroke of a pen? Just gotta love liberal math.
Whatever the fine print, tens of thousands of US auto manufacturing jobs were saved, jobs that you free-market fundamentalists would have gladly forfieted to Germany and Japan, and the loans are being paid back. You’d prefer perhaps that Germany, now producing twice our output at over 5 million automobiles a year (with very strong unions by the way) would boost that to 7.5 million while our companies withered on the vine?
Jo-ooooe!
You’re stuck on stupid…10’s of thousands…it nothing more than a prop up. Free Markets rock,Joe and sooner or later, those “fundamentalists” are going to be saving the other sorry asses in your lot. Lucky you, not so much for us. Because once you believe the gov’t can give you everything, you’re doomed. DOOMED.
Being paid back??? Taxpayer losses are in the billions Joe. 10’s of thousands of jobs saved? At the expense of cutting hundreds of thousands and both GM and Chrysler laid off nearly 10,000 white collar workers in the process. Not to mention the suppliers that went under that aren’t even mentioned. I can speak to that, I worked at one of those suppliers…I lost my $75,000/year job and I’m all the way back up to $49,000/year now. Fuck you and the high horse you’re sitting on you ignorant fuck…
Joey, you mis-spoke again. Tens of thousands of union jobs were saved, who cares about the non-union jobs that were lost, the ones at the smaller suppliers and the dealerships, not to mention the managers and district managers.
And, the taxpayers losses are matched by the investors losses, but who cares, right Joey? As long as the worker’s collective got what they wanted.
It’s been so successful, we’ve gotten the Chevy Volt, a $55K white elephant, that decides to burst into flame whenever it wants to, whose sales figures are so skewed by Obysmal that no one knows how many may have been sold, but it’s likely less than 6K so far, and they’re being returned to dealers faster than they’re being sold. You ARE the wet dream of liberal politics, you’ll swallow anything.
Old and Up (I get you guys confused you sound so much alike), if GM cut thousands of white collar jobs as you say, it’s because they made shi**y cars that few people wanted. How you gonna support white collar jobs if you’re not selling cars? How are the suppliers gonna thrive, Old, if no one is buying the poorly designed, poorly built cars? Now YOU sound like someone demanding a handout! Your birthright does not include the right to a $75,000/year job, especially if you, or the companies you supply, are not delivering the goods. You need to direct your anger at the incompetent product planners and lazy executives. When I was 15 years old (1964) reading “Road & Track”, they were criticizing Detroit for the same problems that nearly caused thier demise a few years ago. Over 40 years ago! They had 40 years to get their act together and they didn’t. I have no doubt that the Big Three have the brain power and manpower to rise again, especially since their recent near-death experience, but they have scrap their old lazy ways and build cars people will actually buy. I think they are starting to get the message. You claim to believe in free markets? Well then you should applaud Germany – they have beaten us at our own game.
And as to the Chevy Volt (or the Toyota Prius, or the Nissan Leaf), any time you introduce entirely new technology into production, you are going to have a few teething problems. If we did it your way we’d still be using horse and buggies! That’s conservatism for you.
See, there’s Joe shooting off his keyboard without thinking again. I don’t think Henry Ford needed a government subsidy for his fuel-burning cars because they functioned and were affordable. So, no we wouldn’t be using horse and buggy transportation. The government only subsidizes shit that doesn’t work very well. Now, when those hippies start building a car that works and is affordable, come talk to me about “teething”.
Old Tanker and UpNorth: Using reason and logic while conversing with Joe is like sleeping with your sister; sure she’s a great piece of tail with a blouse full of goodies, but it’s just illegal (h/t Hot Shots).
Who asked for a handout? Where did I claim a birthright to $75,000/year? You’re trying your damnedest to make me sound like you. Everyone here railed against a government bailout. Part of the problem was that I worked at a shop that had a union. We could not get Japanese business because they refuse to do business with union shops. Shitty cars? Do you ever look at quality ratings? GM consistently ranks right up there with Honda and Toyota. Have you driven a GM lately?
GM’s problems didn’t stem from poor mechanics, but poor business practices: too many makes/models, stretched too thin for the market.
Figures, as a conservative, you’d go back to the early 20th century to attempt to make a point. Things, including technology, have changed a bit since then.
Okay, Joe–show me some techological developments that came about primarily due to government funding and development.
Technology may change, but the fact remains that PRIVATE INDUSTRY develops the technology and the markets to use them.
Yeah, Pinto, lots of mistakes over the years on many levels. Much of it due to institutional laziness, and the belief that American consumers would buy American no matter how shoddy and outdated the products, and no matter how good the competition. It boggles the mind how many warnings the Big Three had over so many years, and how incompetent and short-sighted and their management was, almost criminal. There is no reason they couldn’t have built cars to compete with the Corollas and Civics of 40 years ago except lack of will.
Yeah, Joe it was me who brought up horses and buggies…no, wait…that was you.
And also that unions could (and did) shut down the factories if management didn’t cave to UAW demands.
All management did was kick the can down the road, and when the government took over GM and Chrysler, guess what they did? Kicked the can down the road.
And yeah, I can haul a cord of firewood in a Civic.
Dipshit.
Just for starters, I’ll give you three words Sparky – The Space Race. We’re still reaping benefits from that. R&D nowadays is prohibitively expensive, requires collaboration between entities. With our short-sighted emphasis on only the next financial quarter, we have just about given up on theoretical R&D as a nation.
Most people I know will buy American; but Americans are also pragmatic critters, who will buy what they need. Like Sparky said, you’re not going to haul a cord of firewood in a Civic!
GM’s mistake was attempting to cover too broad an area of the market, when there were already established names out there that held certain parts of it. Instead of doing one thing well, they blanketed the market with mediocrity.
Well Sparky, not surprisingly, you entirely missed the point. The Civics, Corollas and B-210’s of 40 years ago were the cars that got Japan’s foot in the door. Had the Big Three responded appropriately back then we would not be having this “discussion” now.
I think the engineers and product planners of Detroit still have what it takes if the management gets out of their way. If I did not believe in them I would not have supported the bail out. I hope they’ve had the s**t scared out of them, I hope they have learned their lesson, and I hope the bailout will give them one last opportunity to get their s**t together and again produce cars the world will lust for.
Yes, Pinto, that’s indeed part of it. It was easier for them to avoid the expense and inconvenience of updating their factories by simply re-badging the exact same obsolete frame-on-rail model as a Buick, Oldmobile, Chevy or Caddy, with a little chrome trim and a few accessiories being the only difference. In addition, the quality control was absolute crap. I have read amazing stories from the production line about the junk they foisted on the American public. i could go on and on. And while Detroit griped about unions and the EPA, Japan and Germany simply got down to business. This is Detroit’s last chance.
Joe,
You make my head spin….I agree with you about a few of your points but make no mistake, the unions had as much if not more to do with the “lazy attitude” of the big three as anything. If they needed a wake up call, the government bailing them out was the easy way…
Great example, Joe. How could we have lived without athletic shoes, freeze-dried foods, scratch-resistant plastic lenses, cool suits, and cordless power tools? And Tang?! God, I almost forgot Tang!!!
Numbnuts, most of the heavy lifting for the “Space Race” was already done before the first manned flight – and not by NASA. Ever heard of ICBMs and the U2/SR-71 programs? The former did most of the basic R&D associated with propulsion and reentry; the latter did much of the R&D associated with life support. (There ain’t a whole lot of difference between 70,000+ feet and space in terms of life support requirements.)
Now, back to the topic. All the GM and Chrysler bailouts did was to preserve a bunch of union jobs that cost automakers $70+ an hour in total costs. Yeah, I know the worker doesn’t get that. Doesn’t matter. Total it all up, and that’s how much it costs the company.
And don’t even get me started on the Volt. It was an abominable POS from day one – and used rigged numbers regarding its energy efficiency to boot.
Hey, Joey, what was the response of the guys who made “the junk they foisted on the American public”? Their sole response was to have the UAW print up bumper stickers that said “Jap Junk Sucks”. Did they go after their members to stop smoking weed and sucking down 40oz beers on their lunch break? Why, nope, they didn’t. http://jalopnik.com/5645880/auto-workers-drinking-getting-high-during-lunch It’s still going on, even after the tanned messiah visits strokes them.
I note that you still haven’t addressed the fucking that the stock holders got, by the government, so that President Present could pay off the unions, but that’s expected, you’re just another handout hippie.
And, the space race? In case you haven’t noticed, dipshit, we’re not in the space race anymore. NASA is focused on their new mission, outreach to Muslims.
Addendum: Oh, and Joe – if the bailouts were so necessary, please explain Ford.
Joe, you do realize a lot of the stuff developed by NASA before they became a Muslim outreach program was in fact already in existence and in use that was “tweaked” for NASA use?
And that the Shuttle could not exist without technology developed by CIVILIAN companies?
So even then, no, private enterprise made the space race possible, despite government funding of the program.
Oh, and Joey, rebadging is still going on. GM has the Gm line and the Chevy line, same vehicles. Yeah, they really learned didn’t they?
There is a process that GM could have gone through that would have accomplished almost the same thing at no cost to the taxpayer – Chapter 11. Of course, there would have been restructuring of the UAW contract, which would have been unacceptable to the members who vote D, so the pres jumped in with the Obama Stash.
@26: If you haven’t noticed, most space work is going to be done by private contractors these days, because they can do it cheaper and better than the government.
Granted, most technology that came out of the space race is in use all over the world by private industry, however, in order for it flourish, the cost had to come down and that’s where private industry takes over.
As for GM and vehicles; my wife’s Honda was built in the USA while my Dodge truck was built in Mexico. Look at where the vehicle is made before spouting off. The government took over GM and screwed the investors while protecting the UAW. They did the same with Chrysler and then sold it off to Fiat. Losses are in the hundreds of millions at GM (that’s our tax money they are losing) and if you add that to the “green” energy companies that are folding faster than a table with Rosie O’Donnell’s lunch on it and you have the makings of more taxpayer cash going down the hole for nothing.
Oh, I forgot to add the Fisker fiasco. It seems they burned through that quarter billion dollars and are now begging for another quarter billion dollars of our money to keep afloat for a couple more months.
Space travel is currently being privatized at a huge rate. I read there are currently 16 viable space development companies working on the next generation of space flight vehicles, both manned and unmanned.
NASA’s going to be as obsolete as the Post Office, before too very long.
That may be true Pinto, but we would not be at a point where private companies fly into space without NASA getting the ball rolling over the last 50 years.
@#37, yeah, Joey doesn’t know anything about Solyndra, Energy Conversion Devices or Uni-Solar. Hint for ya, Joey, they all took public money, they all went bankrupt. And, they’re all members of the Messiah’s “companies of the future”.
And, Hondo, he can’t explain Ford.
Ya win a bunch, ya lose a few….
Oh yeah, Ford. They were more forward-thinking, saw the writing on the wall, took on a restructuring plan before the economy tanked. But they missed bankruptcy by a whisper and have a record of failures almost as huge as GM and Chrysler. I do hope all three organizations can compete in the global economy, it was worth the risk of bailing them out. Time will tell if it was a good investment or not.
Joey, you are just so special, in a special ed kind of way. You just pick and choose which points you want to pontificate on, and sit down, drool and type. You can’t address the goonion giveaways present in the car company bailouts, while screwing the investors, you can’t address the taxpayer money giveaways in the energy sector, you can’t address the Fisker debacle, you can’t address the “Muslim outreach” that is the mission of NASA now. But, you can dredge up the snark of “Ya win a bunch, ya lose a few….” Please, enlighten us, what are these “bunch” you prattle on about? And while you’re at it, do go on how Obambam slipping money to his political bundlers, then demanding that they hide their impending bankruptcies and the firing of a few thousand employees til after the midterms is OK with you?
$7.6 billion profit for GM this year. You still think we should have let it fail?
Joe: so, are you now admitting that Ford is proof that there was no real need to bail out GM and Chrysler? Remember: GM and Chrysler could have done exactly the same thing – and chose not to. Why should the US taxpayer pay for GM and Chrysler’s shortsighted business practices?
The profit you reference above is also more smoke & mirrors. Guess where that profit came from, Joey? Hey, I’ll spell it out for you: it came from the bailout – or, if you prefer, from US government funds. As part of that bailout GM got about $14 billion in US tax breaks (plus another $19 billion in foreign tax breaks). Without the tax breaks they’d have lost money out the wazoo.
Those tax breaks look kinda funny, too. For unknown reasons, Treasury let GM keep credits for past losses during its bankruptcy reorganization. These credit for past losses normally go away whenever a company sheds debt during bankruptcy. GM did in fact shed debt when they declared bankruptcy – about $30 billion worth. But they also kept their credits for past losses.
Oh, and you still haven’t addressed the fact that the bailout prevented restructuring of current UAW contracts and related benefits that are costing GM $70+ per hour per current hourly worker. This is still going to be an issue when the bailout gravy train ends.
Hondo, our little Joey just laps up whatever pablum the O administration puts out. If they told him today that GM was making a hundred billion in profit, he’d parrot the claim, without doing any checking on his own.
He certainly can’t admit that, looking at the Ford model, that GM and Chrysler could have and, more importantly, should have, done the same thing. Why, that would make the bailout just more welfare and everyone here knows how much Joey loves him some welfare, wherever and however it’s structured.
@45: I hope they plan on paying some of that back to us taxpayers. I won’t hold my breath, though.
UpNorth: agreed. But shooting at sitting ducks is fun. And easy.
$7.6 billion profit for GM this year. You still think we should have let it fail?
In a word, yes. And that “profit” is Enron-style accounting.
FWIW, for we the taxpayer to “break even” on the GM bailout, GM stock needs to be around $53-54 per share. It’s currently at $26.50 a share as I type. A good chunk of the profit comes from Ally, their financial arm, and the short-term gain that came from moving retiree expenses “off the books” as well as dealership closures.
Fundamentally, they’re still a shit stock and a shit company. Their “profit” was also driven by increased manufacturer to dealer sales. Unfortunately, that doesn’t necessarily translate to moving cars off the lot. Despite a $7500 tax break (now proposed to go to $10K), the Chevy Volt is still making the Edsel look like a raging success, having sold a whopping 8600 in the past two years, mostly to government. Of the private citizens who bought them, their average income is $170K/year. Good old Obama, giving rich people a tax break. Atta boy, Barry!
Seriously, Joe–give up. There are those who know, those who don’t, and you, dear man, don’t even SUSPECT.
AND UNPLUG YOUR GODDAMN METER ALREADY!!!!