I’m sorry, did my back scratch your knife?
melle1228 sends us a link from the Army Times in which John McCain throws military retirees under the bus.
“Military retirees and their families deserve the best possible care in return for a career of military service, and nothing less,” McCain said on the Senate floor during debate on the $526 billion defense authorization bill for fiscal 2012.
“But we cannot ignore the fact that health care costs will undermine the combat capability and training and readiness of our military if we don’t begin to control the cost growth now,” he said.
You know what else undermines our military capabilities? Throwing taxpayer dollars down the dark hole of the Education Department and the Commerce Department. And hiring legions of lawyers for the Environmental Protection Agency…but I don’t see anyone threatening those agencies.
And, oh, yeah, in a related article from the Army Times, McCain is reportedly thinking about pulling our Tricare Prime out from under us;
McCain, ranking Republican on the Senate Armed Services Committee, has proposed barring military retirees from signing up for Tricare Prime, the least expensive Tricare option available to them.
Yeah, well, fuck you, too, ya pencil-dick moron. So how do I get my youth back after fulfilling my end of the contract, fuckhead? After yapping about supporting the troops, he has no problem sticking it right up our collective ass now.
Where the fuck is the American Legion, the VFW and DAV now? Yeah, they write mean editorials, but why aren’t they camped outside of this fuckstick’s office? Dave Rehbein went straight to Obama’s office when Obama tried to buttfuck us. Where is Fang Wong?
Category: Veteran Health Care
I especially like how they bemoan the enormous increase in military health care costs since 2001. Gee, ignorant dipshits, what ever could have happened to cause military health care costs to increase since 2001? I haven’t done the research, but I’d bet my left testicle that military health care costs took a gigantic leap upward beginning 7 Dec 1941 and lasting for about 4 years after that too. Ignoramuses, the whole lot of them. Of course, McCain has his very generous Senate health care plan to fall back on; he don’t need no stinking Tricare, Prime or otherwise.
I especially love his quote which basically says that “hey we know we promised you guys healthcare, but guess what we made promises to ALL Americans and we are going to keep those at the expense of you.”
Why isn’t this guy doing something useful like repealing Obamacare? Obamacare expenses will make Tricare expenses like a drop in the bucket.
Heck, it could rescind Congressional benefits and retirement as good faith, but McCain seems to be singling out Veterans.
just wait until all our troops are out of IZ and AF…then they’ll start cutting everything and act like we were never really needed. But as soon as the next war comes along, they’ll be waving the flags and shouting “support the troops”…
I think I’ll just fade off into the sunset and try to be happy with my memories….opppsss. forgot…
@3. No you won’t. None of us will. We daydream about doing that sort of thing but few ever do. And you know why. As for McCain, enough with the platitudes and I-feel-your-pain-but crapola. The economy will not be saved by military cuts to personnel and benefits. It just won’t. The freakin’ boat is taking on water and he’s bailing with a teaspoon–all for show. Well, the American people do not expect our military–active or retired–to foot the bill any more than they have already. This may be the rallying point and the boiling point. Now is the time to consolidate forces and let voices be heard–loudly, firmly, and clearly. This takes organization and deliberation but most of all, it takes leaders. They are about. Now is when they need to step up. There’s an army awaiting them.
AC #4: There are, indeed, leaders out there. Tricky bit is maintaining a narrow enough focus to be affective. As Jonn notes the VSOs should be taking the lead here.
We’ll see?
@3
Sounds kind of like
For it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ “Chuck him out, the brute!”
But it’s “Saviour of ‘is country” when the guns begin to shoot;
An’ it’s Tommy this, an’ Tommy that, an’ anything you please;
An’ Tommy ain’t a bloomin’ fool — you bet that Tommy sees!
Zero: It’s a funny thing about leaders and leadership. Those who are in positions of leadership often don’t–or can’t–lead when the shit hits the fan. I agree that VFW/AL should be out front but they are alrteady late. I’m not certain who it will be but it’s going to happen–and he who steps up will reap the strength of millions and people , such as Senator McCain, can then tell us how they have reconsidered their postions.
I don’t care, get rid of TriCare all-together. Socialism is bad for everyone else, it should be bad for us as well, right? While we’re at it, we need to drastically scale back retirement benefits for REMFs and non-combat veterans. A full pension for sitting on your ass for thirty years in some rarely deployed MOS? No thanks, moocher. That’s more ridiculous than union benefits.
Rueta Covorp Norom (Moron Provocateur). Your comment does befit both a moron and a provocateur but it may be that you are just having a little fun. I don’t know.
I don’t get it, do you agree that we need to rid socialism from our government? Or do you disagree, and believe we need to heavily subsidize healthcare for government employees that comfortably retire in their late thirties, forties and early fifties?
@#8
Based on the tenor of your response it’s clear debating with you would be a waste of better spent energies, however it bears mentioning that the United States fullfilling it’s CONTRACTUAL obligations to those OF US who were expected to fulfill OURS is NOT socialism.
And take care to remember your history.
“We had been told, on leaving our native soil, that we were to defend the sacred rights conferred on us by so many of our citizens settled overseas, so many years of our presence, so many benefits brought by us to populations in need of our assistance and civilization. We were able to verify that this was true, and because it was true, we did not hesitate to shed our quota of blood, to sacrifice our youth and our hopes. We regretted nothing, but whereas we over here are inspired by their frame of mind, I am told that in Rome factions and conspiracies are rife, that treachery flourishes, and that many people in their uncertainty and confusion lend a ready ear to the dire temptations of relinquishment and vilify our action. I cannot believe that all this true, and yet recent wars have shown how pernicious such a state of mind could be and to where it could lead. Make haste to reassure me, I beg you, and tell me that our fellow citizens understand us, support us and protect us as we protect the glory of the Empire. If it should be otherwise, if we should leave our bleached bones on these desert sands in vain, then BEWARE THE ANGER OF THE LEGIONS!!”
From a letter written by Marcus Flavinius, a centurion in the second cohort of the Augusta Legion serving overseas, to his cousin, Tertullus, in Rome
“John McCain is the kindest, bravest, warmest, most wonderful human being I’ve ever known in my life.”
So as long as it’s in a contract, and there exists a threat of government overthrow, it’s not Socialism. Got it.
Gee, thank you for The Full Sandusky.
Jonn,
I’m like you – retired after 26 years and my body some days feels 20 years older than my chronological age (49)…McCain is nothing but a BLUE FALCON – damn Navy Tech grad forgot his roots some time ago (like day one of his political career). I guess that happens when you marry into money…your conscious gets to play second fiddle to your wife’s checking account (and the friends that the money and influence buys in the process).
As for the VSO’s…don’t get me started – I have yet to see one that has actually put the military members, retirees, Disabled Vets and their families first. They are more concerned about filling their coffers and butt kissing the pols @$$E$ at our expense and give the standard BS about “we’re fighting the good fight to keep your benefits”…while Congress slowly lets them get eaten away. Until there is an organization out there that actually goes to bat for the military and those who have served, and sacrificed, none of them will get one f’ing dime from me.
Since when does deferred compensation = “socialism?”
“Deferred compensation” isn’t bottomless and doesn’t include heavily subsidized health insurance, and it’s pretty rare for it to start at 38 years old and last for life.
>“Deferred compensation” isn’t bottomless and doesn’t include heavily subsidized health insurance, and it’s pretty rare for it to start at 38 years old and last for life.
No it is a compensation for serving 20 years where you don’t see your kids or your wives for months on end. For taking a risk, and just because some aren’t “combat veterans”- it didn’t mean that their job wasn’t inheritantly dangerous.
It is the compensation needed for people to actually volunteer for the military and risk their lives. And defense of this nation (and all its compensations-little they may be)is actually one of the 18 enumerated powers granted to Congress to fund. You want to cut entitlements-look to medicaid and Obamacare. Those are coompensations that aren’t earned.
El… oh… el. That’s called life, son. Should we start an entitlement program for truckers? How about oil workers? There are a lot of people that keep this machine running, bub. It’s not just the poor supply officer that has to deploy occasionally.
Public sector benefits are out of line with private sector benefits. If you haven’t personally traded bullets with Terry, as far as I’m concerned you’re just another person who *chose* a career that requires a lot of time away from home.
sometimes it’s fun to screw with trolls like rusty corrupt nonuts (or however he spells it). So rusty, I’ve given up 26 years of my life to the government (so far), travelled to some really shitty places, brought back some nice souvineers (try malaria sometimes, it’s a fuckng riot. By the time I finally retire (next 5 years probably) my “lifetime” pension and healthcare will probably be less than the 30 years of service I gave. And since I’ll more than likely die as a result of something I picked up in those 30 years of servive (like spending 3 years on a ship built when asbestos was still widely used) don’t you think, rusty, that maybe there’s a slight possibilty that my deferred compensation and subsidized health care might actually have been EARNED? unlike all the freeloading asshats on Medi-caid and Medi-Care who are ENTITLED simply due to the fact that they live in the US? In conclusion rusty corrupt nonuts, you and your ilk can simply say “Thank you for your service” and then go pound sand.
Yep, go pound sand, Prima Donna. You aren’t the only person in the world who’s had to work in the rain. Get over it. And Medicare and Medicaid aren’t exactly lifetime retirement packages, I don’t know why you like to begrudge impoverished people funding for routine medical care when you’re living an entire life of complete economic stability on the government dole.
And it’s not really “selfless” service if you’re only doing it because you know you’ll be able to retire earlier than your cohort with much better bennies, now is it.
>Should we start an entitlement program for truckers? How about oil workers? There are a lot of people that keep this machine running, bub. It’s not just the poor supply officer that has to deploy occasionally.
I am not your son or your bub. We aren’t talking about starting new entitlements. We are talking about cutting a contractual obligation that the government agreed to AFTER one side kept their commitment-Basic contract law 101 Bub!
>You aren’t the only person in the world who’s had to work in the rain. I don’t know why you like to begrudge impoverished people funding for routine medical care when you’re living an entire life of complete economic stability on the government dole.
Thanks for that.. I now know that you aren’t worth my time. Military Veterans are on the dole…OMFG
Right, and I’m saying that is an excessive entitlement which we can’t afford to do that anymore… bub. It’s Socialism. End it. Nothing on your contract stated that you are entitled to a retirement package. End the program, now. Welfare for camouflaged warehouse workers is ridiculous.
Don’t let the hero worship in our country go to your head. Is it fair to you that most of the people who spent years of fighting in real wars, with high casualty rates, got virtually nothing for their actions, but a bunch of POGs who just flew a desk through Afghanistan for a couple of tours get a lifetime of paychecks so long as they fly that desk for a full thirty?
Is that reasonable to you? Ridiculous. Spoiled.
I wonder if since they are talking about taking away all these other benefits I wonder if they will start paying overtime, giving comp time, guaranteed holidays, etc… Like all the other benefits that government employees get. Let’s see in basic training alone roughly 168 per week anything over 40 is overtime so 128 overtime. Keeping math simple E-1fuzzy getting paid $8/hour $240+ overtime $792 about 1030/week. Hmmm I think Joe is working out a little ahead there…
All trolling aside, anyone gonna take the chip off this guy’s shoulder or what?
You’re salaried. Like most salaried employees you don’t get overtime. Overtime is for waged workers. You have guaranteed and *paid* holidays, you just might have to stand watch for one or two of them, but most likely that will be covered by some E1-E5, and O1-O2 that decided to stick around. You also get a full month of leave every year. Four and a half weeks of paid vacation in addition to paid holidays, every year. You also have quarters and food provided, or you’re paid handsomely to find it for yourself.
But dear lord, have you pay an extra $50 a month for TriCare coverage, the most cush health insurance plan in the country? Heavens to Betsy.
For the record, Rueta Covorp Norom has used about eight different names while posting to this blog including the more famous pointOhtree and Probablynot.
Well Rueta I’m glad you bring up some points.
1). no overtime. So a dickhead BC can pack you up and go to the field for a month and you can’t do shit about it
2). Holidays? You are kidding right? What holiday are you referring to? Of the 6 Christmas’ I had in the Army I spent one, count it ONE with my folks.
3). that leave. . . they have to approve it. And sometimes they’ll tell you to take leave at a point when literally none of your family can get off so you end up spending that leave playing with yourself
4). quarters. . . oh boy. Let me tell you about the B’s You like waking up at 0200 because some dickhead that got drunk for the first time? Nope me neither. There’s also that jackass form Jersey that HAS to blast his stereo. and lets not even get into the mold, and the fact that at any point the CQ can just walk in and “inspect” your room. REALLY kills the mood. TRUST ME ON THAT.
5). Food. . . I suppose you could call it that. I had a constant case of ass chafing because all army chow gave me either brick hard shits, or I’m pissin out my ass. Homeless shelters get better food.
6). Cush health insurance. . . have you ever USED tricare? They seem to try as hard as they can to find the most incompetent doctors they can, and GOD HELP YOU if you need a specialist. You better be able to prove you’re dying. I know one soldier that had Colo/rectal cancer that went into the final phase while waiting for a specialist. Trust me Tricare is not cush at all.
Sorry bud, you know not where of you speak.
#12 I guess no one caught the original (1962) Manchurian Candidate line: John McCain as Raymond Shaw.
3). that leave. . . they have to approve it. And sometimes they’ll tell you to take leave at a point when literally none of your family can get off so you end up spending that leave playing with yourself
Oh, and don’t forget when you take that leave you have to include Saturday and Sunday. Weekends are not free.
A lot of whining about back in the day, by an all volunteer force. Fromage enroute.
When something arrives here with the tag of Moron Provocoteur spelled backwards and divided into three names, you got to figure that something is a tad out of kilter. The thing was here to distribute inane and nonsensical statements (as morons do) and to instigate trouble (as provocoteurs do). You may as well argue with a sign that pisses rationa people off. Just like Rueta Covorp Norom, he sign cannot think or reason or learn and its purpose is just to piss people off.
Moron is an apt name for this troll.
Obviously this is one of the new trolls, since every point it brought up has been shot down in other threads for over 3 years now. Plus, it must have read that article where the writer was talking about the retirement pay being such a sweet deal, knowing not that everyone that retires usually has to go to work in the private sector due to the plush retirement pay.
One thing I didn’t see the little darling mention was police and firefighters that get to retire after 20 years on the job with a compensation package that would make a military retiree blush. Should those be taken away, also? Even if it was in their contract, municipalities can’t afford those anymore, same with teachers, etc.
By the way our newest little troll talks, they haven’t spent any time in uniform. Or, they are just a turd that got chaptered out and hates the military because they couldn’t hang.
Yep, Old Trooper, I pegged it for a disgruntled, drummed-out turd who despises what we used to call lifers. Did it think that it was being clever with the ‘stupid former military types’ in using that tag? Truly, it is a moron. At least it didn’t falsely advertise.
Like most salaried employees you don’t get overtime. Overtime is for waged workers. And as an E-6 on a boat, even when you threw in my submarine pay, nuke pay, and sea pay, many months I was making LESS than minimum wage. Believe me, you wouldn’t want to be a taxpayer forking over for 100-120 hour weeks at my current pay and OT rules. Hint: it would be somewhere north of $300K a year at that rate. Most I ever made when I was in the Navy was about $35K–including the SRB installment which virtually nobody outside nukes or SEALS gets anymore. You have guaranteed and *paid* holidays, you just might have to stand watch for one or two of them, but most likely that will be covered by some E1-E5, and O1-O2 that decided to stick around. Negative, shitstick. Duty is duty. If it’s your turn you stand it. And believe me, duty on a boat is a 24-hour affair. Maintenance, watches, training. Doesn’t matter what the calendar says. And it was a rare situation indeed when I was more than 3-section (duty every third day.) You also get a full month of leave every year. Four and a half weeks of paid vacation in addition to paid holidays, every year. See comments above. Case in point: I’m taking off work between Christmas and New Year’s this year. Last day of work is 23 December and returning on 3 January. At my current job, that’s four days of vacation I have to burn–actually only three, since I worked Veteran’s Day and deferred the holiday. Were I in the military, IF I could get leave approved, I’d have to use 11 days (oh, and notice that two of those days are holidays.) You also have quarters and food provided, or you’re paid handsomely to find it for yourself. Haven’t lived on the hilltop barracks at Pearl, have ya? Four to a room in buildings that were supposed to have been torn down in the 1970’s. And don’t get me started on food–ever eaten spaghetti with corned beef hash “sauce”? Ever… Read more »
@35 and 36: What I didn’t mention, either, is that when I go to the VA, they have my private insurance information on file as well, because they actually pass on at least half of the costs incurred by the VA to my private insurance. The only benefit I get is if I’m laid off, then the VA picks up medical costs, but it is limited, so I don’t get all medical procedures without review and approval at that time. If I were at the 70% mark, that would be different, but I’m not, so I take what they allow me to have.
Plus, I still don’t get where this troll thinks it is an entitlement; it’s earned, so therefore, not an entitlement. Entitlement is medicaid, welfare, food stamps, etc.
@37. The troll doesn’t think and is undeserving of a reasoned response. One unintended consequence of his dropping in here, though, is that he has prompted some of us to clarify our thinking regarding the nature of military retirement benefits and that is a good thing in my book.
>Plus, I still don’t get where this troll thinks it is an entitlement; it’s earned, so therefore, not an entitlement. Entitlement is medicaid, welfare, food stamps, etc.
When they said that Veterans benefits was akin to being on “government dole” and that other people had “worked in the rain too;” I came to the same conclusion you did OT… That this person either had never served or was chaptered out because they hated the military.
Frick I live around Fort Campbell and there are limited doctors that will take Tricare. They reimburse on the medicare fee schedule which is hardly anything. Doctors just don’t want to deal with it.
Trying getting a surgery that Tricare doesn’t think is necessary. My friend had pins in her hip and needed another surgery to remove the pins and then put them back in- because the pins were pressing on nerves. Tricare wouldn’t pay for the surgery, because it was a “repeat” procedure.. Don’t let me even tell you how frustrating it is to deal with their appeals process, and being a government entity -you can’t actually talk to anyone in the appeals process.
Melle. Can you tell me whether Sabre Heliport is still in the far-off corner of Campbell? When I was there–so long ago–it was on a game reserve where bison roamed amid the bunkers and crazed wild turkeys chased vehicles. The heliport was a fly-infested field and the pads were nothing more than interlocking panels.
@39. Well, that, ‘splains that, Lucy!
Ok, I have done a little digging, because as 2-17 AirCav has said, the troll has brought out a great discussion. Here is what I found about how many military retirees there are: As of 2010 there are 525,494 officer and 1,391,748 enlisted retirees for a total of 1,917,242. That goes all the way back to those from those still alive from WWII to 2010. Here is what I found out about congressional retirees: There are 413 retired congresscritters (both house and senate). Here is what I found out about their retirement: http://www.senate.gov/reference/resources/pdf/RL30631.pdf From wiki: Congressional pension is a pension made available to members of the United States Congress. Members who participated in the congressional pension system are vested after five (5) years of service. A full pension is available to Members 62 years of age with 5 years of service; 50 years or older with 20 years of service; or 25 years of service at any age. A reduced pension is available depending upon which of several different age/service options is chosen. If Members leave Congress before reaching retirement age, they may leave their contributions behind and receive a deferred pension later.[1] The current pension program, effective January 1987, is under the Federal Employees Retirement System (FERS), which covers members and other federal employees whose federal employment began in 1984 or later. This replaces the older Civil Service Retirement System (CSRS) for most members of congress and federal employees. Pension amount The pension amount is determined by a formula that takes into account the years served and the average pay for the top three years in terms of payment. In 2002, the average pension payment ranged from $41,000 to $55,000. For example, a member of Congress who worked for 22 years and had a top three-year average salary of $153,900 would be eligible for a pension payment of $84,645 per year.[3] (A sitting Congressman with 22 years service in 2011 entered Congress in 1989. As such they are under the FERS retirement program. While the high three concept is correct the totals are wrong. Such a Congressman receives their… Read more »
The Infidel Mataween: My body is twenty years older than me. My parents have all of the maladies that I’ve got, but I got them twenty years sooner.
For the record, Rueta Covorp Norom has used about eight different names while posting to this blog including the more famous pointOhtree and Probablynot.
Oh, really? IIRC, the little fuckwad in his pointOhThree incarnation claimed he was a combat vet…
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=27163&cpage=1#comment-559064
In case anyone was curious as to the exact wording of trollboys “claim”, be it Sam, point, or whatever nom de plume he chooses to use from his mother’s basement in San Luis Obispo.
So how’s the weather on the Central Coast, douchebag? The Madonna Inn still as gaudy as ever, or are you posting from class at Cal Poly while the profs tell you how sucky America is while they draw well into six-figure taxpayer paychecks?
@45- marine, I believe. One of the olsen threads’ comment section. He’s quite the troll; like an “intellectual” college boy version of king. Instead of rucking more miles than anyone ever has in the history of rucking, this guy is just plain smarter than anyone who has ever served, and does not hesitate to tell all of us just how misinformed we are about anything. If they turn out to be the same person, that would be something.
@41. I want my post to stay alive for Melle. If anyone is wondering about the bunker reference, Sabre Heliport was once a Marine-guarded weapons storage facility. The place had triple fencing and word was that in the 50’s or so the bunkers held nuclear goodies. Campbell was also a German POW camp and recall walking down some RR tracks and coming upon marked German graves. The graves stopped me cold and I remember wondering what had taken their lives and why the POWs were never returned to their homeland.
>Can you tell me whether Sabre Heliport is still in the far-off corner of Campbell
According to hubby–it is, but it isn’t a small fly-infested heliport anymore.. It is actually quite large now.
@Air cav…. Sorry update: He said there is a brigade worth of aircraft there now.
@48: There were other German-Americans held there as well, in internment camps (they were Bund Party members that were loyal to Germany and the Nazi party and there were internment camps for them and Italian Fascist sympathizers all over the South). I don’t know why they weren’t repatriated back to Germany.