Useful Reminder
A pal of ours sent this via email. A bit late for today, but…
YMMV, and I dunno if it’s appropriate for here?
Just struck me that this might be the kind of thing our Founding Fathers would have done had they the technology?
Category: Politics
Zero:
Beyond appropriate, even should be required. What a strong message. Long ago, when I was handed my discharge from military service, I saw no release from my oath of entry. Through much of my adult life, (70 laps around the sun and counting), I was complacent that we “own” this peace we have in the USA. Of late, I can see that we are on the brink of having it repossessed.
Thanks for posting it, and it is going to my Facebook wall now as well.
No, this video in profoundly stupid. The author/editor is essentially saying that if he doesn’t get is way at the ballot box, then clearly we are going against democratic principles and it’s time to revolt, possibly with guns *wink* *wink*.
This is why conservatism is in such disarray. This is nutbaggery.
Sam, are you an Obamabot, or just a run of the mill liberal?
Do you really think all is hunky dory?
I think that what is has been democratically decided. Was Obama not elected in your eyes?
Pull your pants up and stop crying threats of violence because you don’t like the outcome of elections or the general trend of American politics.
Go protest, articulate why you disagree with policy, but FFS stop making these silly ass insinuations that unless a Republican gets elected soon you’re going to shoot up the place.
Sam #2: Whatever else might be true about yer position… You totally missed the point.
Maybe not? “If you don’t stand for something, you’ll fall for anything”
And I don’t care whether you think things are going well or not. My only point here is that this violent revolution non-sense makes conservatives look silly and out-of-touch.
Democrats couldn’t ask for a better bunch of people to run against than old fools in tri-fold hats swapping conspiracy theories and openly discussing shooting people if they don’t start winning elections.
Really, so that video doesn’t imply that it might be time to start taking up arms soon?
Ah yes there is an old saying that truly applies to jack wagons like Samuel here……Do not argue with ignorant people they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Personally Samuel I care not one whit for either side of this political divide. They are both equally guilty and Obambi only shows how low this country has gone when we elect someone with ZERO experience in any field but most especially politics. Please spare me how he was a Senator prior to being elected to the Oval Office. As Senator Obumbler he was only in office less than 1/2 a year. In the real world this would have gotten him fired from his job. This country is headed for a revolution but I hope it is at the Ballot Box and not with force of arms. Whatever does come to pass the blame will be equally shared by both Republicans and Democrats.
Going back to my cave now so have a nice day.
The only thing I’ve said is that the advocation of political violence when you fairly lose elections is unacceptable. Do you disagree with that point?
Even saying that immediately means to you that I’m an Obama supporter. There is no lee-way. Either I support and condone violent rhetoric, or I’m an Obama supporter.
As for your local son of Sam,
I offer you this injunction http://www.moonbattery.com/archives/2011/07/stay-in-your-ca.html
Sam, you little twit. Tell your boyfriend to educate you just a bit. Any revolution implied here, ballots or bullets is not at all because the Conservatives do not have the presidency. It is because government has taken the idea that they can run our lives for us. That they can make decisions that we are not qualified to make. Get over yourself, lose the BDS, and smell the coffee. We do not need a higher debt ceiling, we need a lower debt. We do not need higher taxes, we need less spending.
You’re missing the point. These are ideas the people have voted for. The video implies that the way to solve that problem is by killing Americans. A notion that you are not backing away from, might I add.
And I’m the “twit”? Check your attitude and gain some professionalism. I’ve fought Taliban and the Mahdi Army so foreigners can have free elections without the fear of car bombs and rifles going off. I’ll be damned if I’m going to tolerate such non-sense from the likes of people in my own country.
Far left liberals use the threat of political violence all the time. The new Black Panthers turning away voters from polling places in Philadelphia comes to mind right away. What about the disenfranchisement of large numbers of military personnel overseas? I certainly don’t advocate violence in politics, but when you have judges legislating from the bench, when the government takes away my hard earned money, then pisses it away, I start to get pretty damn pissed. I took an oath when I became a Marine, to defend the Constitution and this nation from “all enemies, both foreign, and DOMESTIC.” Our own government is working very hard to layer a soft tryanny with more taxes, more regulations, more restrictions. This comes from both sides of the aisle, all in the pursuit of personal power. That video above points these things out. It also does not place blame on any party, or individual. It places it on those who are willfully shredding the Constitution, and subverting the government for their own interests.
Does it matter who else uses it? It’s wrong. Even loose talk of such non-sense is wrong. Judges are appointed by our elected executive and confirmed by our legislature. It is a democratic process, as outlined in the Constitution and the U.S. Code.
Your recourse is in the 1st Amendment, not the 2nd.
Sam, you obviously did not grasp the whole of the video; but only the threat of shooting parts of it. You seem not to have seen that this was the extreme of the threat, and something that any warrior who loves his country would espouse. Oh, nevermind, you have had an overly large share of the Kool-ade, and no one can help you see the true meaning of the video.
I think the mere fact that the video is advocating shooting Americans is enough to address on its own.
And no, I will never espouse the killing of citizens of my own country because I don’t like judicial outcomes of appointed justices, or legislative agendas. An idea which, again, you are continuing to espouse.
I’ve said my piece. Democracy doesn’t ensure that you get your way. The rest of the country is more liberal than you, more liberal than me. That’s reality. Grow a pair and deal with it like a responsible adult. Not a psychotic child in Arizona.
#16
Just curious, why Arizona?
Jared Loughner, the kid who shot Congresswoman Giffords.
#14 Judges are supposed to interpet the law, not come up with new laws, or finding situations were the applicable law is deemed insufficient, and then come up with what the law should be. That is the role of the legislature. Jared Loughner is a poor example to use, seeing as he is mentally incompetent. Sam you are missing the entire point, the video does not necessarily advocate violence, but it does point out what is happening to us by our very own government.
I see. So you equate the producers of the video, and those who agree with them, with Loughner?
If you disagree with a judge you recall the judge. There is a process. Not enough people agree with you that the judge is “creating laws” or interpreting existing ones incorrectly, therefore you cannot successfully recall the judge.
This is a civil democratic republic. You don’t shoot the judge. You don’t hint that you might shoot the judge. You don’t talk in general terms about how it would be a shame if you had to someday in the future shoot a judge. That’s some bullshit that should be nipped hard, especially on a blog that represents the military.
I specifically mentioned that Loughner is a “psychotic child” to make a contrast between how you should behave and how a psychopath or schizophrenic behaves.
#20
No, try again.
There is little difference between what our Founding Fathers were experiencing than what America is experiencing today.
The American king is exercising the tyranny and unfortunately it may take an action none of us want to reverse the treasonous direction.
No one thought a bunch of farmers in the 1700s, totally out gunned, out manned could whip the greatest military force in the world…the big difference, American patriots were fighting for freedom and liberty under the wings of God, the British wanted money and power…..we celebrate the winners today………..
American patriots haven’t changed…we will win again no matter the odds……..
“Grow a pair and deal with it like a responsible adult “.
Right, just stand by and let the feds shred the Constitution, just shut up and deal with it.
And, Sam, you expose your ignorance, this isn’t a democracy, it’s a representative republic. Are the rest of your ideas as woefully wrong as your belief that we live in a democracy?
And, in #21, no, you can’t recall a federal judge. They can only be removed by impeachment. Who’s a federal judge that’s been impeached lately? Alcee Hastings D-Fl. A man not competent enough to sit on the federal bench, is removed and turns around and gets elected to Congress? Where he’d have a vote on articles of impeachment for another federal judge?
So, tell us, is the system broke, and how to fix it?
“This is a civil democratic republic. “
Read more.
And no, I’m not telling you to “shut up and deal with it”. I specifically mentioned a few times that you should do all manner of things to make yourself heard.
I am saying that you shouldn’t kill politicians and judges, or casually mention that it might be an option. And apparently that’s controversial.
Recall/Impeach, the result is the same. You can remove a judge from the bench. Stop splitting hairs and deal with the fact that there are better options than shooting a judge.
You’re the one splitting hairs, no citizen can initiate a recall petition for a Federal judge. So, actually, you’re 100% wrong, “I” or we, collectively, can’t remove a Federal judge from the bench. You’re the one who said, “If you disagree with a judge you recall the judge. There is a process.” In case you haven’t noticed, Federal judges are the ones who decide that they actually know what the writers of the Constitution meant, not state judges, not local judges.
And, kindly point out where I ever advocated shooting any judge, local, state or Federal?
Sam, This being our anniversary of our claim to independence, you might want to take a moment and reread this part of that great document which set out the discord our forefathers had with a similar sort of situation. To wit: “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.–That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, –That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.” I would rather resolve our differences through the ballot, but our Constitution is not, nor ever had been, a suicide pact. We, the people, will NOT allow our rights and privileges to be trampled underfoot by those who would use our established system of government to pervert our nation and bend it unto their nefarious purposes. It is way past the time that our nation threw off the velvet shackles of entitlement programs and expanding government, of cradle-to-grave social welfare. We MUST reduce the central government to it’s proper place, that which is outlined within our Constitution and restore all other powers to the various states, and to… Read more »
You can elect representatives who can. You support the Constitution, right? Why not follow the rules.
You haven’t said you wanted to shoot a judge, but you did pose a comment rhetorically asking whether you should “just shut up…” in opposition to my statement that you shouldn’t. In English parlance, that generally implies opposition. What other alternative for judge removal did you have in mind?
AW1 Tim, my comments are limited to the mere notion that you should not threaten to kill rightfully elected or appointed government officials.
You make a good rhetorical case for your political point of view, but I am only speaking specifically of people who want to kill other Americans because they disagree with policy passed by legitimately elected politicians.
…or Judicial outcomes. Wouldn’t want to trip up UpNorth by not being extremely specific.
“Grow a pair and deal with it like a responsible adult “ sounds allot like “Get over it” which to the best of my knowledge has absolutely never changed anyone’s opinion about anything. Usually just pisses them off actually.
The very nature of American politics and one of the underlining ideas of the founding of this nation was the understanding that violence was a viable answer to perceived tyranny. Now, if you don’t like that, then fine, that’s your option to take. But, when Sam do you stand up and say enough? When would you take up arms against your gov’t? I’m really very curious, would you only do it if you were directly affected or is there some situation that would so inflame you to take the low path?
BTW I’m not espousing an armed uprising, I’m a man of South Carolina, we know how that goes. I’m just curious.
So I can’t even see the vid on my blackberry, but from what the comments have said, you can draw from it that there is a threat of violence if “we” don’t get what we want through elections and Sam is right to point out even hinting at anything along those lines is detrimental to the outcomes we are after.
Sam makes a great point, and you old fools jump right in to attack him personally rather then address the topic. The same bs that I hate the media and the left for doing, you did with great vigor.
When you read something that might be different then what you think, take a deep breath, walk away from the computer and think of what point they’re trying to make and then come back and comment, you all shoot from the hip and you’re only being the nutjobs the left love to paint us as.
Adults follow processes to get solutions they want, immature little children scream and yell about what scary thing they’ll do if they don’t get their way.
Sam, project much? I’ve heard things like, “Selected not elected!” and, “Not my president!” as well as, “He’s destroying the Constitution!” since 2000. Nevermind that your hero Obumbles and the Democrats simply bypass the Constitution in order to implement and enforce their agenda. “Stroke of the pen, law of the land. Pretty cool.” Nevermind that it wasn’t a Republican who uttered that, but Paul Begala. You remember him, don’t you? And if you think that peaceable change is ALWAYS possible, well, in a perfect world it would be. Unfortunately, it ain’t a perfect world and nobody WANTS violence, but our government has to be aware of the fact that before it becomes too large and overpowering in our lives, there will be people who take action before it becomes too late. It’s like the old expression, “The last thing I want to do is hurt you, but it’s still on the list.” Then I leave you with this. See if it sounds familiar, and eerily timeless: “Wonderful is the effect of impudent and persevering lying. The British ministry have so long hired their gazetteers to repeat and model into every form lies about our being in anarchy, that the world has at length believed them, the English nation has believed them, the ministers themselves have come to believe them, and what is more wonderful, we have believed them ourselves. Yet where does this anarchy exist? Where did it ever exist, except in the single instance of Massachusets? And can history produce an instance of a rebellion so honourably conducted? I say nothing of it’s motives. They were founded in ignorance, not wickedness. God forbid we should ever be 20. years without such a rebellion. The people can not be all, and always, well informed. The part which is wrong will be discontented in proportion to the importance of the facts they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. We have had 13. states independant 11. years. There has been one rebellion. That comes to one rebellion in… Read more »
Woody; do you mean like the democrat in New Jersey that wants to punch Christie in the head? Is that what you are referring to in your last paragraph?
Sam came back with a statement equating the video and the comments to Loughner in AZ, which is a rather extreme response, because Loughner did things based on being nuts, not politics, even though the media tried their best to stick it on the conservatives. All it takes is a brief look back through the last 50 years if we are talking about politically motivated violence. I won’t go through the examples, but any mature adult could take a quick peek and come to a conclusion that doesn’t support either Sam’s or Woody’s interpretation of who is mature and who is not. There’s talk and there’s action and actions speak louder than words. Weather Underground ring a bell? How about the Black Panthers? How about the New Black Panther Party? The last 2 Presidential assassination attempts were against republicans, not democrats (Ford, Reagan). Just take a look back and maybe there will be a mature, adult response coming.
So now I have to sound like your father and ask “if your friend jumped off a bridge, would you?”
You all are bashing the left for their threats, for their violence, so their assassination attempts, but then in the same breath almost say “if they can do it, so can we”.
Sam hasn’t come out for or against Obama, his only statement is he supports who was elected, since its a process.
Many of you get furious if someone doesn’t agree with you 100% or doesn’t fall in lockstep with your hate for Obama.
Violence is a tool in politics for the weak willed, threats do nothing to advance intelligent conversation, only to push reasonable people away from your message
So we on the Right are suppose to just take the punches in the face because that’s the adult thing to do. I would normally agree with you Woody but they won that last big election with a guy who is perhaps the least qualified president in the history of the republic and they steadily used the tactics you now say we should not use. Just because it started a knife fight doesn’t mean it has to end that way and by my reckoning they pulled a gun around Nov of 2000. I would be a fool to not pull one of my own.
No, Woody, what I pointed out were actions, not words. Do you meet actions with words in order to appear to take the “high road”? How does that work out most of the time? If someone threatens you with a knife; do you ignore them and hope the process plays out with words? What is being discussed is not the process, but rather whether the process has been corrupted and ursurped to the point where it is no longer effective. What is being discussed is; at what point is the process no longer valid?
Sam made mention of the Constitution and I believe that this administration has demonstrated an unwillingness to follow the Constitution or the subsequent laws of the country as they apply to everyone else. A prime example is the ongoing hostilities in Libya and this administration’s complete disregard of the War Powers Act. There are several other examples I could cite, but I don’t have the time. What it boils down to is; “when is enough enough”? What mechanism is in place to enable the people to stand up to a government that isn’t playing by the same rules?
That is the basis, I believe, of the responses by the good folks here. You can come up with all sorts of derogatory names for them, but that just shows you are as immature as those you claim are.
The government is going the direction that it is because the people have elected politicians whose political aims are in that direction. Judges have not appointed themselves to the bench, they have been placed there properly by people we’ve elected
That is how this rodeo works, folks. I don’t give a rat’s ass if you don’t like the outcome, the system is working as it is laid out in the Constitution. Instead of making these little veiled threats against politicians and appointees, get out there and figure out why your message isn’t sticking.
Hint: It might have something to do with the fact that you’re seen as nutcases by the rest of the country. Hmm, I wonder why that could be…
Right, Sam, whatever you say. I love all knowing types that focus on one side, usually the right, as the “nutcases”, which tells me all I need to know about their own ideology i.e. leftists. I gave you plenty of examples and like a good little leftist, you ignored them and continued on the path of name calling. My what a deep intellect you have.
Do any of your examples fall outside of the category of “things done by properly elected politicians”?
If you don’t think those politicians are acting appropriately, before you even think about pulling guns over politics you should have Washington flooded with like-minded men demanding resignation or impeachment. You aren’t doing that. You’re going straight for the guns. What a deep intellect you have.
Well, genius, if you would notice, I never advocated for such. I guess reading comprehension wasn’t big in your school.
If you want another example, it’s a low hanging fruit, so you might pick up on it: The Wisconsin teacher’s union mess. It seems the duly elected politicians from the other side, who were in the minority, didn’t like the fact that they were going to lose their fight, so they packed up and left town in order to block a vote on it. Talk about political cowardice. Plus, thugs from that same side decided to become not only squaters within the capitol, but also to assault some members of the party they didn’t agree with. Shocking, I know, but it is there in the public record for all to see. Now, do you have any examples of those “conservative nutcases” actually going past words and on to deeds, like I can cite about the liberal left without even thinking very hard? All I’ve heard from you is a lot of gasbagging and no substance.
O.T., I’ve made no statment about my political ideals. Yet because I disagree with thinking its ok to threaten violence when an outcome in the government isn’t what I like, you assume I’m an avid Obama supporter.
If the fact that I sound level headed and educated makes me seem like a leftist to you, then that an embarassment to yourself.
Neither Sam nor I have stated anything to support one side or the other, we simple said, and excuse me for speaking for you Sam, that coming out and threatening violence is a stupid thing to do when you want to be taken seriously. Saying its ok because they do it is another stupid way to act because you’re being just like those you were, until just now, better then.
Go back and look at how this whole conversation started and you can see the vocal right took this to name calling and insults quicker then imaginable.
Woody, I never mentioned which side you were on in any of my statements. With Sam, that’s different since he decided to go with name calling and citing only this one example without taking into account what I originally had said, which is actions speak louder than words. He never cites any evidence of “conservative nutjob” actions, just words from one little piece of video. I, on the other hand, have pointed to many leftist groups who have engaged in violence both in the past and present.
I looked at what has been said and if you read my first response in this thread, you will notice that there are questions that I have asked both of you to answer, yet that still hasn’t happened, even though Sam has continued to deflect and redirect (standard leftist tactic).
I posted this because, as I noted: … this might be the kind of thing our Founding Fathers would have done had they the technology?
In an odd way these comments are akin to conversations that were likely taking place in The Colonies way back then when a new flyer or broadside hit the streets.
Although a civil discourse would be preferable it IS telling that it seems impossible, even now?
YMMV
You’re right, Pons, the founders weren’t shy about breaking out the dueling pistols to settle things.
“Well, genius, if you would notice, I never advocated for such. I guess reading comprehension wasn’t big in your school.”
And then two posts later…
“…the founders weren’t shy about breaking out the dueling pistols to settle things.”
Wink-wink, eh?
What exactly are you advocating?
And Old Trooper, you realize that leaving the state to prevent a quorum isn’t a new trick, right? Abraham Lincoln himself jumped out of a window in the Illinois State Legislature in an unsuccessful attempt to block a vote he knew his side might lose.
It’s part of the system.
I don’t give a rat’s ass if you don’t like the outcome, the system is working as it is laid out in the Constitution.
Actually, the reason people are as pissed as they are is precisely because the system is NOT working as laid out in the Constitution.
States are pressured to bend to the will of the ever-progressing reach of the federal government, rather than tell them ever so nicely to go pound fucking sand.
Individual liberties are being completely shitcanned in the name of the “common good”. Don’t believe me? Try filming a cop on duty in Illinois, for example.
Second Amendment? Funny, last time I read it, there was a phrase in it about, “shall not be infringed.” Yet last time I checked there were over 20,000 gun laws on the books.
The Boston Tea Party was over a 10 percent duty on tea. I’m not rich by any stretch but I figured I send about 40-45 percent of my check to some level of government or another before I’m even allowed to see it. That’s right, for every week, I’m working until sometime Wednesday morning to pay off some other asshole who sits on his ass and bitches about how it’s not enough.
Yet I’m also told if I don’t pay more I’m not “patriotic”. Fuck that.