Washington Post sets sights on Graham’s career

| August 3, 2015

GRAHAMMILITARY_011438207870

The Washington Post doesn’t like Lindsay Graham for some reason, so they decided to go after his military career, such as it is. I guess he retired this summer with 33 years, most of it in the Reserves (since 1988). Twenty years of that career, he was in Congress (beginning in 1995). In the 1998 campaign, he claimed that he served in Desert Storm – he was called to duty, but he never left South Carolina.

He did, however, get to serve in Iraq, using the excuse that he wanted to help the Army with their detaining of prisoners after the Abu Ghraib thing;

Last year, the Army awarded Graham a Bronze Star for serving on the detention task force. All told, he deployed overseas 19 times while in Congress, serving a total of 142 days, according to his personnel file.

Yeah, I’m about ready to throw my Bronze Star away. But I don’t remember any meaningful legislation coming out of the Senate in regards to detainee operations, do you?

One Air Force lawyer who served in Iraq in 2006 and 2007 said it did not appear that Graham did meaningful work.

“Nobody who was in the war-zone billets who were doing [legal] work in Baghdad ever knew what he did,” said the lawyer, who is still on active duty and spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid retaliation. “He was just hanging on.”

While in uniform, Graham was often treated like a visiting celebrity. He was featured in military news releases and posed for photographs with other units.

They also point out that Graham didn’t attend the Air War College or the Air Command and Staff College, you know like most Air Force O-6s, but he says that he was too busy being a Senator to even do the correspondence courses. But, you know, he won’t be too busy to cash those retirement checks. He claims that he was promoted because of his performance back in the early 80s at the beginning of his career, but we all know why the reserves promoted him – he was also a Senator.

“I think Colonel Graham did a pretty good job, quite frankly, given the constraints of my day job, my ability in terms of time,” Graham told The Post. “I’ll let people who served with me say whether or not I helped. I think I did.”

I don’t like Graham either – but because while he’s drawing his check for serving (and I use that term loosely) in the Reserves, he’s using that minimum service as moral authority to increase out-of-pocket medical costs for retirees, to change the retirement system for future service members and to slash benefits for currently-serving service members. Graham is the king of all Blue Falcons.

But, the Washington Post can call me when they have a veteran on their staff of writers.

Category: Congress sucks

122 Comments
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
Eric

Wow, I had to do an O-3’s job as an E-7 for a whole tour on my third deployment before I received a Bronze Star.

And who is it that confirms promotions to O-6? Why, its the Senate! What a coinkeedink…

Eric

I guess Chief is sleeping. First!

Andy11M

Don’t forget, you have to be recommended for promotion by your branch first. So someone in the Air Farce had to slide his packet across the tabel first.

Luddite4Change

More specifically, its approved by the political appointees of the service (the SEC Air Force), and the nomination is sent forward by the President. Which is the Senator’s case includes a member of both parties.

If you think he is the only case were a senior government official gets special treatment for O-5 and O-6 promotion in the reserves, you are mistaken. He just happens to be a visible case.

All of the services reserve component put some kind of consideration into a members civilian employment when making promotions to O-6. There is not really anything surprising here.

Did the WP have an accounting of how many point he earned and how many “good years” (I think that’s a year with 50+ points) he had?

desert

not necessarily, remember fairy kerry recommended himself! for a bronze star and 3 purple hearts…ain’t it funny how those things happen? As for Rino Graham, I wouldn’t give that A.H. the time of day!

Sean

Meh, in 2004-2005 Everyone E-7 & Above in our bde got a BSM as end of tour awards whether they left the wire or not.

sapper3307

Yup, BSM was the new AAM.

sapper3307

In 05-06 My Battalion commander and CSM both were relived/fired and still ended up with BSMs.
wtf over

Hondo

Yeah, that’s a head-scratcher. However, it’s no more of a head-scratcher than seeing a guy go home with a MSM (identical criteria when awarded for service over time as the BSM) plus a CAB. And I know personally of at least 2 cases where that happened.

Andy11M

Our fat body Mess Sgt got a MSM for his year in Iraq. He took the LOGPAC to the FOB that served as our BSA every week (sometimes twice) only so he could hit the PX,and, I think hit a booty call, and when I got stuck on MWR guard for a week I could have set my watch by his arrival to use the computers. There were a few choice comments shouted from the back of the formation when we had our BN award ceremony at home station and he got his MSM. Cause you know, supervising the preparation of two T-RAT meals a day took so much planning and logistical skill.

Hondo

I think we’ve all seen an “interesting awards story” or two somewhere along the way – either involving one that was apparently unearned, or someone getting the shaft.

Most awards are highly subjective and completely up to the appropriate approving authority. However, even then the approval authority should, well, follow established policy directives. Sometimes that doesn’t happen, and those cases tend to torque my jaw.

Skippy

We had a lot of 42As awarded CABs that were down in Kuwait on my last trip to the sand trap…. A few of us that found out about this up in alasad were pissed but told to stay in our lane… Go facken figure

Hondo

Hmmm. Would love to hear the real backstory on that one. Sounds . . . interesting.

Skippy

You have to love the reserves Hondo. The S-2 shop that I was trapped with up at Al Asad for two weeks the OIC Said don’t worry trash gets taken out in the end… And it will. Trust me 🙂

Skippy

One of these days Hondo we’ll have to have a beer and chat Lol…

Andy11M

Skippy, as soon as they came out with the CAB near the end of OIF II, I knew it was going to become nothing more than a shiny combat patch. After I saw the BN Chaplin for our brigades Forward Support BN wearing one after we got home, I knew I was right.

Skippy

As Hondo said above. This crap happens. maybe a little more then it should, but so rolls the dice

AZtoVA

Then there was the CoE’s “Measle” chart that resulted in EVERYONE in MNSTC-I (Baghdad Green Zone) during a specified period of time (2008?) getting a CAB.

A Proud Infidel®™

DITTO when I was in A-stan 2005-2006, 2LT’s that never left the wire got them for making coffee for the BDE CO!

Skippy

09 our rear D. Was getting them also

Skippy

Crap OIF 09-10 everybody E-6 and above got them.

Skippy

And in OIF 07 also but a lot of them were earned. The old fashioned way

Climb to Glory

Yup. The BSM has turned into a sort of participation trophy. Even ARCOMs too. Sad.

Thunderstixx

I should have gotten the Golden Snowshoe Award for freezing my ass off in Alaska…
I wish I could post pics here, but I can’t figger it out…

Skippy

LMAO…
I still haven’t figured it out either…

Eric

By the time I was in Afghanistan in 11-12, ARCOMs and AAMs were done on memos like an OSR or the ACM.

I did the ARCOMs for my guys in a normal DA638 format because I think they deserved that much, but it was crazy to see how automatic it was for everyone.

In 05-06 I had a CSM who came from a postal unit and didn’t know jack-crap about anything Army, but was writing awards for troops and editing other awards for troops and making them worse. CSM, 1ea. who had to be shown how to take apart an M16 rifle, thought she’d have to zero an M9, and had to be shown by Soldiers how to use an MRE heater. Yes, the heater with the instructions right on the heater bag. But, of course she received a BSM for that rotation. She should’ve been fired for more than one action/inaction, but instead acted like she was the savior of Baghdad when she got home.

CSM (R) Joe Payne

Col Lindsey Graham:

You need to accumulate at least 50 points a year over 20 years to qualify for retirement benefits in the Reserves at age 60. It seems that for a number of years of service he performed little if any service.

He gets 15 points a year just for being a member and then the rest are made from either attending monthly drills, taking courses (which he admitted that he didn’t take) or active duty time. Points must be earned during the fiscal year between October 1 to September 30 of the next year and cannot roll over. Would be interested to see how many good years he had.

I was not aware that taking the required courses to qualify for promotion was optional for officers. In the Army Reserve I saw many officers dropped over the years for not being able to attend the the next required level of military training for promotion either due to family commitments or job obligations. Is this just an exception that the Air Force does?

daniel

My favorite part was where he said he was promoted to LTC and COL based on his work back when he was a LT-CPT. WTF. That statement alone had me twitching…. Because that is not the way things work for normal people.

thebesig

In some cases, that’s possible. For example, if an officer goes into the IRR, and does nothing but correspondence courses and annual muster, he could show up on the promotion list based on his evaluation reports from when he was on active duty.

There would be slight differences from among the services, but the scenario is possible.

thebesig

Retirement points are earned by Retirement Year End Date (RYE) in lieu of the end of fiscal year. If a reservist does a qualified deployment, don’t remember the start year when they started to do this, they could retire early based on a 90 day to 3 month reduction for each 90 days of deployment.

If he didn’t do correspondence courses, he may have been slick and did “DA 1380” recordable events. Maybe he did so for his roles that he played, in Congress, involving addressing military issues. If this scenario applies, then he would’ve been pushing the envelope and he jumped well into the grey area. 😯

I’ve generated DA 1380s for the time I’ve spent creating lessons, and designing training scenarios, for my unit, on my own time between Battle Assemblies. That’s legit, and has an appropriate code assigned to it.

He was in the standby reserve, active status list given by the fact that he was able to retire. From my understanding, you could only be in that status for a year in the Army, with few exceptions.

Hondo

thebesig: a minor correction – deployment time doesn’t technically allow “early retirement”; that still requires attaining 60 years of age while acquiring at least 20 “good” years of reserve service. However, qualifying contingency support service does authorize early receipt of retired pay as you note.

However, the rest of the “stuff” that comes at retirement (blue ID card, medical care via TRICARE) doesn’t show up until age 60. Until then, you’re not “fully retired” – you’re still “grey area”, just authorized by law to receive retired pay early.

I have no idea what affect that has on the SBP election normally made at age 60. It may or may not move that up – I’ve not been able to find a definitive answer to that question yet.

Hondo
thebesig

Hondo: thebesig: a minor correction No correction needed. You basically emphasized what I was talking about. Hondo: — deployment time doesn’t technically allow “early retirement”; that still requires attaining 60 years of age while acquiring at least 20 “good” years of reserve service. Actually, reservists in receipt of their “20 Year letter” can retire as soon as they receive said letter. The 20 Year Letter is short for “Notice of eligibility to Retire With Pay at 60,” or something similar to that. Key Word, “retire with pay.” If they’re getting paid their retirement pay before they turn 60, they “retired with pay” at that earlier date. Hence, my statement about “retiring early.” Hondo: However, the rest of the “stuff” that comes at retirement (blue ID card, medical care via TRICARE) doesn’t show up until age 60. I could retire right now, in my 40s, and still not have a blue ID card. I’d have a pink one. I’d have both TRICARE Retired Reserve, both medical and dental. Those are available for Grey Area retirees. I was talking about retirement pay, taking for granted that reservists with their 20 year letter, who have retired, would understand that I was focusing on pay with the “early retirement” in lieu of “retirement at 60.” These same grey area retirees would mostly understand that they have benefits as grey area retirees. I wasn’t talking about these benefits though, but about the fact that they could get paid earlier. Hondo: Until then, you’re not “fully retired” — you’re still “grey area”, just authorized by law to receive retired pay early. My statement wasn’t about “full” or “partial” retirement, but about the fact that retired pay can be received sooner than 60 via qualified deployment. Hondo: I have no idea what affect that has on the SBP election normally made at age 60. It may or may not move that up — I’ve not been able to find a definitive answer to that question yet. I made my SBP election before I turned 45. If you don’t make an election by a certain amount of days… Read more »

Eric

If you don’t make an election by a certain amount of days after receipt of your 20 year letter/or receipt of SBP enrollment paperwork, don’t recall right now, the reservist automatically is enrolled in Option C.

You have to do that election within 90 days of the date of your 20-year letter.

But correct, if you don’t choose option C (like everyone does), you get auto-enrolled for Option C anyway.

Hondo

thebesig: um, that’s not correct. A correction IS necessary. And I think you missed my main point entirely: receipt of early retired pay is NOT the same as being a “military retiree”.

Receipt of the 20 year letter only is notification that you’ve qualified for receipt of retired pay at age 60. It’s nothing more than that, and other than start the counter on first opportunity for SBP election it does nothing else of significance.

If you stay in service after receiving it, you’re still a member of the RC with no change in status. If you request to be placed on the “reserve retired list” at some point after receiving it, until you turn 60 you become a “grey area retiree” – not a “military retiree”. They’re different animals entirely.

Technically, a “grey area retiree” is not considered a “military retiree”. A reservist doesn’t become a military retiree (with full benefits associated with that status) until you reach age 60. That is true regardless of the fact that you may be receiving early retired pay due to contingency support duty.

In particular, while drawing early retired pay before age 60 you are not eligible for TRICARE. You don’t get the “blue ID”. It’s unclear if you are eligible for internment at Arlington National (military retirees currently are, but “grey area” reserve retirees get boned in the ear on that score) until you turn 60. I’m sure there are a few others bennies that that don’t immediately come to mind that are also deferred until age 60.

As I said: my whole point here was to point out that “receiving early retired pay” due to contingency service is NOT synonymous with being a “military retiree”. They’re two distinct and different categories, governed by different parts of Federal law.

thebesig

Hondo: thebesig: um, that’s not correct. A correction IS necessary. Um, wrong, my statement is correct. A correction IS NOT necessary. Hondo: And I think you missed my main point entirely: receipt of early retired pay is NOT the same as being a “military retiree”. The reality is that you missed my point. When I made the following statement: “…they could retire early based on a 90 day to 3 month reduction for each 90 days of deployment.” — thebesig I was clearly talking about the fact that they will get paid before they turn 60. Nowhere in that statement does it specify whether someone is a retard reservist, or full retiree. In fact, when a reservist submits a packet to transfer to the retired reserve, gets orders transferring this reservist to the retired reserve, the soldier is generally described as “retired” when the orders are executed. A soldier from my unit transferred to the retired reserve, and was described as being “retired.” Instead of seeing it that way, as most people who are currently serving in the Army reserve would see it, you got bogged down into weeds as to what exactly I was talking about. More on that later. Let’s not forget the fact that it is assumed that the soldier/service-member that’s getting retirement pay earlier had already been through the retirement ceremony transferring him/her to retired reserve. It’s also assumed that this happened “years” before the first retirement pay kicks in. You’re the one that missed the point, I’m bringing it back to the original point that I made. Hondo: Receipt of the 20 year letter only is notification that you’ve qualified for receipt of retired pay at age 60. It’s nothing more than that, and other than start the counter on first opportunity for SBP election it does nothing else of significance. Not quite. It has everything to do with the statement that I made, which you misunderstood to mean something completely different. My statement, “retire early” had anything to do with the fact that they would get paid earlier. This was said with the understanding… Read more »

thebesig

I meant:

Retired Reserve, not Retard Reserve…

Retired into the retired reserve, not retired out of the retired reserve…

Or not, not “one not.”

Can’t blame “auto correct” on that one, just Dragon Naturally Speaking picking a different set of words than the ones that I used. :mrgreen:

Skippy

This Turd is a Super TURD !!!!!
This is the reason we should never hand out promotions like candy.

Hondo

Not quite. In the Reserve Components (RC), retirement points must be earned during an individual’s retirement year – which in general is not aligned with the fiscal year. An individual’s retirement year begins when the individual enlists in the RC or accepts a RC commission (example: individual enlists/accepts RC commissison on 7 June, that individual’s retirement year begins 7 June and ends on 6 June of the next year). When I was RC, because of when I left active duty and entered the RC my retirement year started and ended some months after the FY began. Retirement points may also be earned through normal drills with a unit (4 per weekend) or other authorized special work (1 point per 4 hrs training or special work – either of which may be unpaid; a fair number of USNR folks drill “points only”). A drilling reservist who makes all their drills and AT and does nothing else will accrue somewhat over 70 retirement points in a typical year (11 drills @ 4 points each plus 14 points for AT plus 15 membership points). Even if money isn’t available for AT, making all drills will yield a “good” retirement year. However, since training is managed on a fiscal year basis, some of those points may be “split” between different retirement years. Doesn’t matter much if someone drills consistently for many years, but can matter if/when someone changes status (e.g., from unit to individual participation). Short tours of active duty – even for a week-long school – also count, 1 point per day of AD. Regarding lack of War College: I can’t speak for the USAF, but as recently as a decade ago in the Army the War College was most definitely optional – and attendance was the result a competitive selection via central selection board, to which the individual had to apply for selection. That was true for both resident and non-resident courses (slots were limited on the latter because it was 2 years long and included a 2-week resident phase each year). Not sure that’s still the case, but I believe it… Read more »

Hondo

Ref for the Army War College being via competitive board selection. Short version: yes, it still is.

https://dde.carlisle.army.mil/

Bobo

In the Army, completion of ILE common core is required for promotion from O4 to O5. Completion of ILE is required for promotion from O5 to O6. Completion of senior service college is required for promotion to O7.

Hondo

OK, then that hasn’t really changed either – pre-ILE rule was 50% of CGSOC was required to be educationally qual for selection for O5, completion of CGSOC required to be qual for selection to O6. ILE replaced CGSOC.

Thanks for the update, Bobo.

D

https://www.hrc.army.mil/TAGD/Selection%20Boards%20Frequently%20Asked%20Questions#off6

“If a Major hasn’t completed the Command and General Staff Officers Course (CGSOC) or Intermediate Level Education (ILE), will he/she get promoted to lieutenant colonel?
For active duty Lieutenant Colonel boards the military education requirement is not mandated. For Reserve and Army National Guard Lieuntenant Colonel Boards 50% completion of legacy CGSOC or 100% completion of ILE-Common Core, or equivalent. In order to be eligible for a waiver, the officer must have completed at a minimum, phases one and two of non-resident ILE-Common Corps (sic).”

nbcguy54ACTUAL

Would being a Senator accrue points under the “authorized special work” ?

Bet there’s some little rule somewhere that authorizes that…

OWB

Hondo – 10 years ago, War College either in residence or by correspondence was NOT optional in any USAF component. We lost a lot of reserve officers as a result, if they hadn’t started planning for it fast enough. No excuses.

There was some minor paper shuffling going on round DS/DS/DS timeframe because we were specifically told not to bring correspondence courses with us when we deployed. A few did anyway, and they were able to complete their courses. The rest of us were basically hung out to dry. We were not given the promised extensions. There were some unofficial things done, but it was not pretty.

HippiePuncher

No. In the USAFR, one does NOT achieve promotion above O-3 without ACSC and above O-5 without AWC (either in-residence or correspondence, respectively). This is a travesty. I especially like “All told, he deployed overseas 19 times while in Congress, serving a total of 142 days, according to his personnel file.” WTF? Each “deployment” lasted 7.5 days?

Luddite4Change

I don’t know that much about the USAF, but I’d have to ask if “the rules” are the same for special branch officers such as JAGs? In the Army special branches get some passes that other don’t.

Also, the Executive has wide discretion when it comes to placing a person on or off a promotion list. While it may be “unfair”, I can pretty much guarantee that there was language in the promotion board instructions that covered people in the Senators position (folks with important national jobs that can’t complete required education). The services pretty much automatically promote astronauts, even though they pretty much never go back to their service for education.

OWB

Was unaware of anyone other than chaplains and medical docs being granted waivers to extend their service beyond age 63, and only then if they remained fully qualified physically. In theory, an age waiver could be granted to others, but only if it can be shown that their unique position would be difficult/impossible to fill. Won’t say that it never happened for a JAG officer, but that wasn’t one of the typically most difficult to fill positions.

All that said, no, I am not aware of anyone even in critical career fields getting something like the War College waived.

We did have an officer whose paperwork was completed to ease him out the door. A member of Congress intervened on his behalf, a position and promotion were meted out and he was retained. But, it could not have occurred legally had he not already completed his War College requirement.

Hondo

Interesting. If Air War College completion is mandatory to achieve promotion to O6, that does raise the question of how last year’s AWC Class President managed to make O6 prior to completing the course.

http://www.maxwell.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123413307

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=120404

HippiePuncher

Hondo; AWC is not mandatory, it’s just overwhelmingly (as in 99.999% of the time) not the norm. Your objective follow-up article is a good example of why I have followed and trusted this site for so many (many) years. Thanks for that.

Hondo

You’re welcome. And thanks for the feedback here about Air War College.

I frankly suspected the Air War College was much like the Army’s version: selection to attend indicated a file that was highly competitive for selection for O6, but attendance wasn’t a “no exceptions” regulatory requirement for promotion to O6. Thanks for confirming that – I was having trouble running that to ground in AF pubs one way or another.

Eric

“I especially like “All told, he deployed overseas 19 times while in Congress, serving a total of 142 days, according to his personnel file.” WTF? Each “deployment” lasted 7.5 days?”

Seems to me those “average” amounts of days per “deployment” are about the same amount of time members of Congress would spend in Iraq or Afghanistan doing their rounds for their campaigns, I mean, to go visit the troops they support.

AZtoVA

He went over with CODELs, and stayed to do his service. Another way to look at it is he saved the Service money by not having to deploy him at their cost. Everything with the Post is spin. He had a state-side desk job but asked to go/serve overseas even when DoD Policy generally forbids sitting Congress-critters from serving in a war zone.

I’m not particularly a fan of Graham’s, but I am a fan of the truth.

Here’s a good article that shows how the exact same facts would be written if Graham was a Dem instead of a Rep. https://sharylattkisson.com/fact-check-the-washington-post-on-sen-grahams-military-service/

I also like the point that he isn’t claiming repeatedly (and falsely) to have been under sniper fire every time he got off an airplane, like another Pres. candidate does.

Hondo

Interesting. The man seems to have enough cumulative time in Afghanistan to rate the ACM. I didn’t think he did.

A Proud Infidel®™

So did Graham ever step outside of his air conditioned office or work out outside of an air conditioned gym, or ever even go outside of the wire? Was his time in the Middle East anything other than a “Hey, look at me!!” PR photo campaign? Fuck him!

Andy11M

I think he had enough time to hit the PX and the food court. You could always spot the hardcore FOBBITS by those nice PX drop leg holsters.

A Proud Infidel®™

Yep, and the Enlisted REMFs carried M16A2’s that we referred to as “Muskets” while those of us that went outside the wire carried M4’s. He MIGHT have left the A/C to venture all the way to the coffee shop as well!

Andy11M

HEY! When I did the invasion with 3ID (aka the Red Headed Stepchild of the 18th Airborne Corp) I had a M16A4 with a 203.

A Proud Infidel®™

A LOT of forward units still had them during the invasion, but by the time I went in 2005, M16’s were carried by the rear echelon Troops while the rest of us had M4’s.

Eric

Oh come on. He was Air Force, they’re all REMFs. Badum-tish!

On a serious note, a member of Congress going anywhere outside the wire as a green-suiter would be a horribly bad situation. Not just because security would be focused on his safety, rather than the mission, but also because if he was killed, captured, etc., it would be a PAO nightmare for us and a significant victory for AQIZ, the Talis, Haqqani, etc etc.

Stacy0311

I noticed a lot of fobbits went with the hadji shoulder holster ie-the FOB Bra as the drop leg holsters tended to catch on chairs…..

Ex-PH2

Isn’t that three political animals who’ve claimed service that didn’t really amount to a hill of beans?

AZtoVA

Wow. Trash someone that hypes their “normal” service with Stolen Valor by claiming that any service should be honorable and they should have been proud of whatever they did. The when someone simply lays out their “normal” career it’s trashed because he wasn’t a Seal/Ranger/AirBorne/Recon/Infantry? Can we at least be consistent?

thebesig

It looks like he was in the Standby Reserve-Active Status List, in order to serve on a Court Martial and to qualify for enough good years to retire with pay at 60 (or sooner with qualifying deployment).

He wouldn’t have been able to do this if he were in the Standby Reserve-Inactive Status List… which is where he should’ve been if Congress allowed reserve members in his capacity to serve.

A law professor tries to tackle that question, involving Senator Graham, in this article:

http://writ.news.findlaw.com/dorf/20060925.html

Hondo

I’m guessing he was SR-ASL because he was a Member of Congress. Federal employees in Federal positions designated “Key employees” end up being transferred to the SR-ASL.

Per DoDD 1200.7, Members of Congress are designated as “key employees”.

http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/pdf/120007p.pdf

Skippy

Yea he is a pile of Crap. Like someone we have here in Arizona. Also they hand out BSMs like candy now I’m shocked he got one for doing nothing NOT Lol…..

SFC D

Which pile, Skippy? Narrow it down some, gimme something to work with!

Skippy

When it comes to veterans issues there is only one McCain

SFC D

LOL just wanted to make you say it! And for the record, I didn’t vote for the senile old bastard!

JimV

Serving in the Reserves or Guard is not considered honorable service? I beg to differ. We are going to see more and more reliance on the Reserve Component in future conflicts. Just like GW1 and GW2.

Full disclosure:

7 years active Army
19 years USAR
Service connected disabled veteran

A Proud Infidel®™

There’s NOTHING wrong with serving in the Reserves or NG, I did three years AD and came back into the NG after a nine year break in service knowing that doing so would get me deployed and I kept my house and civilian job when I got back. The case of heartburn I have with Graham is that he apparently used his Reserve Service Time as little more than campaign PR while really not contributing much at all to his unit and branch.

Eric

Let alone that 19 “deployments” for a total of 142 days is short, even for the Air Force deployment calendar.

rb325th

At least he served…

A Proud Infidel®™

Yeah, and like they say in the Deep South, “Bless his heart.”

OWB

Did he? That seems to be the question – honorable service is all that counts with many of us. Graham sounds like one of those who let the rest of us serve him rather than the other way around.

Skippy

Exactly. My thoughts too

JohnE

19 deployments for a total of 142 days deployed? Did he do a week at a time?

Skippy

He maybe the reason why the criteria for the ICM. Is the way it is. I remember in 04-05 you had a lot of brass flying over and doing a overnight to get the ribbon.

Hondo

Um, took 30 days consecutive/60 nonconsecutive in country to qualify for the ACM and/or ICM unless you were awarded a combat badge due to a hostile fire incident or were injured requiring MEDEVAC. Anyone claiming they qualified for either for an “overnighter” is full of it.

Skippy

Do you remember the ruckus back in 04 or 05 with officers doing overnights ??? My brother would talk about it before I took the jump to the army. I remember one of my Drills talking about it when I came in. I hope I didn’t just put my size 14 in my Mouth Lol….

Skippy

Ooo crap I have my foot on the ready and my humble pie 🙂

Hondo

You may be thinking about the “combat pay” tourists.

While an “overnighter” would only count two days towards the 60 nonconsecutive days needed for the GWOTEM/ICM/ACM, it would (under the rules at the time) exempt an entire month’s pay from Federal taxes. And if the first day was the end of the month, it would exempt two months’ pay from taxes (month of arrival and month of departure).

I was there somewhat later than 04-05. By then, my impression was that CENTCOM had clamped down somewhat on “combat pay tourism”.

FWIW: it was reportedly common as hell in Vietnam, particularly among aircrews based in the Philippines. Their birds reportedly always seemed to break down when they landed at Da Nang on the last day of the month – but were promptly fixed the next day. Haven’t heard as much about the issue from DS/DS, but I’m sure it happened then too.

Give a GI a chance to figure out how to get some extra $$$, and, well . . . . (smile)

Skippy

Bingo you are the winner Hondo… (I Am Hondo) 🙂
I am inserting my foot in my Mouth,,,,

Hondo

No biggie, amigo. Hell, I sometimes have trouble remembering what I had for breakfast 2 days ago. (smile)

Bobo

When I was in Bosnia it was a tax free zone, and we were supported by an element in Taszar, Hungary, which wasn’t a tax free zone. For some reason, the same guys in Taszar always had to be in Bosnia on the last day of the month and RON, leaving on the first day of the next month.

sapper3307

Yup, the brass tax show up on the 30th and leave on the first. Its comes out to two hours on the ground and shows up as two months combat pay and shiny ribbon’s and things for all your staff.

JohnE

What was annoying(To me…) was when you saw guys wrangling a short (30 days or less…) trip into a combat zone exclusively for the purpose of re enlisting (Tax free bonuses…)while they were there. I don’t know about the other services, but it was rampant in the AF…cant say as I blame them, but it was fairly insulting to those of us there for the long haul.

Luddite4Change

If you go to the link to the WP you provided Hondo, and click on the picture, you will notice that the Senator didn’t have enough time to qualify for any of the three campaign awards (ACM, ICM, GWOT-E).

FWIW, while Congress did put a by day requirement in place for HF/IDP in the FY2012, they didn’t make the same requirement for the tax exclusion. (A friend on the Hill told me at the time it was due to the differing committees responsibilities, Armed Forces doesn’t touch tax policy, as to why the two items weren’t tackled together).

Skippy

The ICM and or the GWOT-E is 30 Days consecutive or 60 Day Non-Consecutive time, the sixty days I do believe is a 12 month period. But don’t take my word on that
Also the ICM and the GWOT-E can’t be earned during the same time period my old S-1 buddy gave me that info this afternoon
Something does not feel right here. But he probably rewrote the rules LMAO ! ! ! !

Eric

The HF/IDP changes happening in 12 sucked, but it wouldn’t be as bad as if they changed the tax free status to the same thing.

HF/IDP was a nice little chunk of extra money, but where you make your money downrange is with the tax free status. In the words of Rafter-man: Buku Money…

Hondo

Actually, if the dates in the link provided by AZtoVA above are correct, Graham appears to have more than enough cumulative time in Afghanistan to qualify for the ACM. And no, Skippy – as far as I know, there’s no “12 month limit” during which the 60 days nonconsecutive service must be served for the ACM/ICM/GWOTEM. The only requirements are (1) that the cumulative service must be performed between the specified start and end dates for the campaign or expeditionary operation and (2) that the duty must be performed in the campaign or expeditionary medal’s defined AO (air sorties count as 1 day, regardless of their duration; multiple sorties in a single day count as 1 day).

FatCircles0311

How the hell do you “deploy” 19 times and do less than 150 days total? This guy gamed the system so hard.

This is such fraud.

Skippy

You hit it on the head

Twist

Exactly. I only deployed twice and did a total of 28 months.

Twist

I just realized that the math might confuse some folks. My first deployment was with the 172nd SBCT and after the extension we did 16 months total.

Skippy

Well had a engineer Co. In Germany that did 9 trips for a total of 160 days in 07-08

3E9

In 2012-13 we had enlisted and officers on staff who would do “battlefield circulation” tours. Basically they would leave the last week of the month and come back a few days after the first of the next month. All so they could get down range and “see the troops.” It was widespread and a bunch of shit. I’m sure if you look at any of the CETCOM sub commands it still goes on regularly.

Luddite4Change

It’s and easy answer. He did drills in country while there on Congressional business.

Redmanss

Off topic of the Graham gang bang, but the Washington Post has a great vet on their staff, Thomas Gibbons-Neff, prior USMC Infantry. He recently wrote a great article about the Marine Corps snubbing their snipers equipment wise, and it’s stirred a lot of talk that may actually get them the rifle they need.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/people/thomas-gibbons-neff

BmrSnr991

I don’t know about the other services, but during my time in the Corps I rarely saw the Bronze Star awarded for anything but combat action. I know its available for meritorious service, but isn’t that what the Meritorious Service Medal (USMC/Navy) is for? or perhaps the Legion of Merit?

IMO, an award should be for either meritorious service or for valor, but never both because you get people getting it for meritorious action and insinuating its for something else.

David

That is what the V-device should be for. As a for instance – I know someone who in WWII was a real early AAA guy who worked on the original project slaving radar to AA guns. I think it is safe to say he influenced the outcome of the war (and most of ’em since then.) He got a Bronze Star without the V device, and I would think it well earned.

Hondo

Be careful. The Navy and USMC use the V device somewhat differently than do the Army and USAF.

Army and Air Force use the “V” device to denote the award in question was awarded for a specific act of valor. The Navy and USMC use it to indicate awards made to “individuals who are exposed to personal hazard involving direct participation in combat operations”, but not necessarily that the decoration was awarded for a specific act of valor.

The Navy and USMC also use the V device on a larger number of decorations than do the Army and USAF.

Hondo

BSM may be awarded for any of three things:

1. meritorious service connected with combat operations;
2. meritorious achievement;
3. act of valor

The “connected with combat operations” criteria includes support for same. Remove that phrase from the BSM’s criteria, and the award’s criteria are virtually identical to that for the MSM. Until 2004, a BSM awarded for service or achievement was essentially a MSM awarded for combat-zone service.

Until 2004, award of the MSM for combat zone service was forbidden. In 2004, policy was changed to allow award of the MSM in a combat theater. That decision IMO has opened another can of worms.

AZtoVA

Saw an article 5-10 years back that any family member of a WWII vet, where the vet served in any theater during the war, was entitled to a BSM. The vet or any surviving family member simply had to request the medal to have it awarded and mailed.

Hondo

Not exactly. Along with serving in combat, the individual must also have been awarded the CIB or CMB. That’s actually been on the books for a loooooong time – since 1947, according to Wikipedia, and I believe they’re correct about the date.

2/17 Air Cav

He’s a US Senator, a member of The Club. What more is there to know? Does anyone expect equal treatment? Is anyone naive enough to think that Senator Suey here actually was rated impartially? If so, there’s this bridge in Brooklyn that I can no longer keep. I’m retiring. I’m willing to sell, if the price is right.

Big Steve

Sorry, but this guy always looks very feminine to me. So I wasn’t surprised to learn he hadn’t been in combat arms, jet fighter pilot, or anything like that.
Military lawyer, huh? Real high speed, low drag mf’er. He should have manned up and become a band leader or photographer or something.

valerie

I am a lawyer who has watched Lindsey Graham in a number of hearings on C-Span.

I know why the Washington Post does not like Lindsey Graham: he is smart, he prepares for hearings, and he has been a thorn in the side of this babbling, incompetent excuse for an administration.

Anything the Washington Post writes about him has to be re-checked, because he is a Republican. Remember, the Washington Post is the “newspaper” that claimed to “debunk” the Swift Boat Veterans so ineptly that it led me to read the book, “Unfit for Command.”

Yef

Please, Lindsey Graham is one of the worst senators evah. That dude has caved in everything. Calling him a RINO is being kind.

2/17 Air Cav

“I know why the Washington Post does not like Lindsey Graham: he is smart, he prepares for hearings, and he has been a thorn in the side of this babbling, incompetent excuse for an administration.”

I have to assume that each of those is given as a reason the WaPo does not like Graham. The WaPo must not like smart people. Of course, that contention is as untrue as it is ridiculous. And the WaPo dislikes those who prepare for hearings. That’s just plain silly. Finally, the WaPo must not like those who are a thorn in the side of oBaMa. That may be true and, if so, that’s the only reason of the three that can stand. But there’s a huge difference between rhetorical thorns and thorns that work diligently and ably to oppose oBaMa’s transformation of America. Graham says a lot of things (some of them stupid as hell) but if being a thorn in the side of oBaMa qualifies someone to be the next president, well, oBaMa isn’t eligible to run again for president so that issue is moot. Besides, as thorns go, Lindsey Graham ain’t much. What the country needs is a strong, conservative leader not another “first” president.

D

The most amazing thing to me is he made O-6 without ever sending an email in his career. If true, it really calls into question how he did anything at all while on duty, especially as a JAG.

http://www.nbcnews.com/meet-the-press/lindsey-graham-ive-never-sent-email-n319571

Eric

He doesn’t need to send an email. He has a huge staff to send email for him as a Senator. Even as an O-6 I’m sure there’s a poor Captain running around doing his emailing for him.

Big Steve

The face, the voice, the mannerisms. I think old Lindsey may have actually been the military’s first transgendered soldier. Though I can’t prove it.

D

Another issue: I thought an O-6 could only do 30 years of commissioned service before retiring due to MRD. How did he do 33?

MrBill

An O-6 normally serves a maximum of 30 years but can go up to 33 with some sort of special dispensation (likewise, an O-5 normally maxes out at 28 but can be extended to 30).

MrBill

I had the right concept but remembered the wrong numbers. 10 USC 14701 allows an O-5 to be extended up to 33 years, and an O-6 to 35 years.

Hondo

Assuming, of course, that a particular service’s policies allows continuation at the time. Policy doesn’t always so allow.

Hondo

My guess is that he received 3 years constructive service credit for attending law school under 10 USC 12207. Not sure, but I don’t think that constructive service credit counts against the 30 year total for max years of service.

Pretty sure a law degree is a prerequisite for serving as a JAG officer, and that law school is typically 3 years. I could be wrong about either, though.

MrBill

The 3 years’ constructive credit is for determining the officer’s initial grade. You’re right, it does not count toward the 30-year max.

James

Remember Animal Farm: All of us are equal but some of us are more equal than other. I wonder when he is going to put in for disability to fatten his retirement?

nbcguy54ACTUAL

Claiming PTSD for being on the Clinton impeachment judiciary committee??