What the hell is this?
Yeah, so here I am in the middle of the day blogging about the election again. But, Country Singer sent us this link to an article about the President who chanced upon three veterans in a diner and had an impromptu chat with them;
the Portland lunch reinforced the message that president cares about vets. In addition, the local vets — Thomas Foeller of Oak Grove and Mark Peterson and Dean Dilley, both of Portland — are retired white males, a demographic the Obama campaign would certainly like to do better with.
Whatever the politics behind the luncheon, however, Foeller, Peterson and Diller said it was an experience they’ll always remember.
“I can’t emphasize how easy the president is to talk to,” said Foeller, 65, a former Navy officer who later spent most of his career at the Bonneville Power Administration.
Foeller said Obama listened sympathetically as he talked about the problems rural veterans have getting access to health care and was quick to knock down a rumor Foeller had heard from his son-in-law — an Iraq War veteran — that members of the National Guard would get a pay cut.
There won’t be any reduction, Obama told them.
Where did that rumor come from? Trust me, I deal with rumors every day, and I’ve never heard that anyone was going to cut National Guard pay. So I guess if you wanted to toss a softball to your guy, ask him to solve a non-existent problem.
I think if the president sat down with me at a diner, I’d have more important shit to discuss with him than some rumor about space aliens coming to cut National Guard pay,
Oh, and according to Gateway Pundit, those vets were plants anyway.
Category: Barack Obama/Joe Biden, Veterans Issues
Actually, Jonn, the question wasn’t a softball. The 11th QRMC has recommended a 50% cut in drill pay for drilling reservists. It also recommends a cut in retirement credit earned while drilling by 50%.
http://www.facebook.com/notes/oklahoma-national-guard/11th-quadrennial-review-of-military-compensation-recommends-national-guard-drill/10150926865962544
http://themilitarywallet.com/guard-reserve-drill-pay-changes/
Actually, that rumor is going around, have heard it as well.
It deals with the way soldiers are paid for NG weekends, by MUTA or whatever they call it now. You used to have a MUTA 5 if you were there Fri-Sun, and rumor is that will now be a MUTA 3 for pay purposes.
And as far as the vets go, apparently they’ve never been seen around that particular diner before but their info was known to the media based on releases from the Obama campaign.
Nope, no plants here, kids. Move along.
It’s not an official rumor until it’s been sanctioned by TAH. Besides, since the President said that it won’t happen, you can be sure that it’ll happen now.
Correct, TSO. The proposal is to make one day of drill duty equal 1 drill – and one retirement point. Currently a drill is 4 hours and earns 1 retirement point.
The effect is a 50% cut in both drill pay and retirement credit for drill. The counterbalance is that the proposal also includes allowing reserve retirement to begin 30 years after DIEMS or age 60 – whichever is earlier.
I’m a retired “grey area” reservist (on the retired list, but not yet old enough to draw retired pay). Given my luck, they’ll probably decide to adopt this just after I turn 60. (smile)
Actually, the pay cut info has been in the news for a couple weeks now.
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2012/07/PRIMEmilitary-reserve-advocates-decry-drill-pay-cut-070612/
Actual doc: http://militarypay.defense.gov/reports/qrmc/11th_QRMC_Main_Report_(290pp)_Linked.pdf
In related news, the president assured a class full of kindergartners that he had no intention of banning ice cream or having Barney killed by the SEALS, but he couldn’t be sure that Mitt Romney wouldn’t.
The problem is that the Drill Pay does not cover just that one period on the weekend, it covers all the bullshit you do between Drills such as online classes that you can’t do at Drill, NCOERs, OERs, phone calls, various impromptu meetings, etc.
If they want to go ahead and just pay for that period and not require us to do anything else during the month, then that’s fine and don’t expect me to answer the myriad of emails and phone calls I get on a daily basis between Drills or work any longer than 8 to 5 on a Drill weekend. I regularly put in 14-16 hours on a Drill day. Worse if it is a FTX.
I saw the article on Foxnews.com that only lasted about 1/2 a day. People were upset that a NG/Reservist would make more in Garrison then a Soldier on the battlefield….because 1 drill day equals 2 days pay. But they also fail to recognize that if you are leader in the NG you have to hold down a full time job and be available full time to your soldiers.
As #8SIGO said you have to write CRM plans for the APFT your taking or family weekend. Write OPORDS to cover upcoming training that you have to do between drills.
They also didn’t take into account the BAH, Family Sep, or any other payments that a called to Federal Service Soldier gets.
Plus, I have to pay for gas to drive over 100 miles to my HOST (not complaining just stating), and if I want Tricare for me and my family that’s $192 a month, not counting dental so add another $70+, so after my 4 drill pay weekend I normally pay more to be in the Guard…again not complaining because I enjoy the job….but don’t want my pay cut even more.
I left the Guard this year for a couple reasons, but one of them was that I was going in debt being in the service. My unit was 2.5 hours away and after room/board and fuel, I was losing money every month. Not to mention my sanity with all the extra requirements of being a Commander. Unless you are AGR, the Guard is not an M-Dayers game.
@#10 SIGO hate to hear that…but I feel your pain.
This issue actually comes up at least once each decade. It appears to be an easy way to cut costs, but it really is not, for all the reasons already stated here and a few more.
And TSO – I’m not sure what a MUTA is unless it’s a new thing added since I retired, or maybe one only used so infrequently that I never heard of it. What we used routinely were UTA (“Unit Training Assembly” – the normal drill weekend), SUTA (Subsititute UTA) and RUTA (Rescheduled UTA). SUTA was a group thing while RUTA was an individual thing. We had SUTA’s scheduled on an off-drill week-end as an alternate assembly. RUTA’s were for when you needed to either miss part of a drill for personal reasons or needed to attend to something at the base during the week.
@12 (OWB): MUTA = Multiple Unit Training Assembly. SUTA has never been an official term. The official terminology is RST (ReScheduled Training).
SIGO: as I recall, OWB’s background is USAFR/ANG vice USAR/ARNG. Their preferred terms may be different.
The name is, frankly, rather irrelvant. By whatever formal name, a “drill” has been defined for literally decades to be a 4 hour block of military training/duty performed by a reservist yielding 1 retirement point, and for which 1 day’s base pay (without allowances) was paid. The current QRMC recommends redefining a drill to be a full duty day.
This is indeed a 50% reduction in drill pay, and probably somewhere around a 35-40% annual pay cut for drilling reservists (AT pay and allowances would not be affected). Whether the proposed advancement of minimum retirement age would be sufficient compensation for that immediate pay reduction is an open question.
I’m against the plan, but the way it was explained in Army Times (online), they were going to give us BAS and BAH to compensate and there were other things being discussed that weren’t as clear (like for instance the same Tricare as the actives and a travel allotment for going to drill). That would make it more fair than most of the joes were given to understand, though there would have to be some way to address the way retirement points would be calculated.
To summarize: Less pay now for less pay later, but sooner.
I’m more interested in the vets being plants and then refusing to go on a radio show to talk about the meeting. Seems just a tad unethical, but maybe that is just me. Present something as a chance encounter, it should really be a chance encounter.
You all are forgetting the most important fact…
OBAMA is not the CinC for Guardsmen; their GOVERNORS are. Up and until they are removed from Title 32 and put on Title 10, they report up to the Governor.
Last I saw, no governor had Obama in their CoC….
Hondo, this is not an ARNG term but NGB term therefore it is universal.
I can’t help but wonder if all three of these “vets” really are vets…
Thanks, SIGO. Was thinking earlier that the MUTA could be something the ARNG used more than we did in the ANG, at least in flying units.
Will have to disagree, though. We had scheduled SUTA’s up until the time I retired less than 10 years ago. Depending upon what was scheduled for the year, we often had two drills per month – the UTA being primary with the SUTA being secondary with enough personnel working to support the flying missions.
But we had things going on all the time. And the terminology is always changing so it is certainly possible that the acronyms have since I retired.
As to the NG being under the control of the Gov’s, that is not entirely true. It’s a dual function. The NG was federalized in 1969 (give or take a year or two) which took exclusive operational control from the Gov’s. They still play nicey nice most of the time, but the CinC can call up any and all NG assets on a whim if he so desires. The Gov’s have control only as long as the CinC allows them to have it.
MUTA=UTA
Obama Quadrenniel Review = Request to cut NG/Reserve pay in half.
And it means that Retirement pay will be cut from $644/mo to $511/mo at age 60, (or from $432/mo to 300/mo for those without active duty time) for someone with 2 combat tours and 20 years retiring with 20 years of service.
30 years after retirement? Yeah, if they came in at 18 and retired at 38, that would be 58, so it’s not likely to change things much, especially if they have those 2 years in combat which would already qualify them to receive their retirement token 2 years earlier.
It “won’t happen,” because NGAUS has alerted their members and their members have written their Congressmen, who must approve the cut in pay that Obama asked them for, MAYBE.
That’s assuming 50,000 National Guardsmen writing 535 politicians can make a difference.
The NG made recruiting goals for the first time this year in June. Granted most recruits have no idea what they’ll get for retirement from the Guard, but they have a very good idea of what they’ll get for a weekend drill. How many E7’s and up will see a benefit to staying in and how many HS grads will see a benefit to joining the NG/Reserves for such low returns, particularly when Obama wants them to leave their jobs one year out of 5, war or no war?
Hondo you lost me with the compensation being retire at 60 or 30 DIEMS. We already start drawing at 60, or 58 1/2 in my case because of mobilization. What is the good part?
@#17. Yeah, that was interesting. A completely “chance” meeting with POTUS, but, suddenly they don’t want to talk about it. And one of the three is a “volunteer” for Obama for America? But, it was a “chance” meeting.
Confirmed that they were plants at this point. Rumor or not, the question was, in fact, planted as a softball so Obama could swing and hit something.
http://www.oregonlive.com/mapes/index.ssf/2012/07/three_portland_area_veterans_a.html
Damn should’ve looked closer. Same link as originally posted, but now it says “On Tuesday morning, all three met with a staffer and were driven to the restaurant and arrived shortly before Obama. The three said the restaurant workers and other patrons received notice only a few minutes before the president arrived.”
I don’t think I’d feel right being used as a cheap photo op, but I guess that’s why they chose people tied to his campaign.
Employees stated the 3 “vets” were not regulars at the diner.
One of them maybe popping in once previously. Its these kinds of shenanigans that has people disgusted with politicians. Shameless use of Vets as a political football and the naked pandering…yuck.
Wow…this is amazing, there’s still 3 vets left that support this disaster?!?!
@OWB: Understood, but the term has been misused for years. SUTA was never an official term per se for what it was used for in the NGB jargon.
Dave Thull: the other part of the proposal is to allow receipt of reserve retired pay at age 60 or 30 years after initial entry, whichever is earlier, provided one has 20 qualifying years. This would potentially allow a career Reservist or National Guardsman to start drawing reserve retired pay much earlier – as early as age 47 for someone who joined at age 17 with parental consent. There’s some question as to whether this would be for retired pay only (like current early receipt of reserve retired pay due to contingency service after 28 Jan 2008) or would also include the “whole enchilada” of retirement benefits. My guess is it would end up being pay only – but I’ve often been accused of being overly pessimistic.
The cons: 30-40% (rough est) reduction in annual pay for TPU/other drilling reservists, plus a reduction in retirement points from approx 72/year while drilling to around 50. Assuming a 20-year career, 1 year of AD in every 5, and 1 year in various short tours (training/other), and 10 points a year from other sources (correspondence courses, unpaid IDT), that would reduce the number of points earned over said career from about 3200 to about 2850 – yielding a reduction in retired pay of around 11%. The pro: you’d potentially get this reduced retired pay between 7 and 13 years earlier (assuming initial entry between ages 17 and 23).
Not sure how I’d feel about it if I were a youngster – is retiring 7-13 years earlier worth a 30-40% reduction in annual reserve pay plus an 11% reduction in pension? That’s a hard call.
I’d guess that even if it’s adopted it won’t be for several years (and will probably see major changes if it’s adopted at all). In my case, that means it likely won’t make any difference for me – I’ve already moved to the USAR retired list and am in my 50s.
[…] that QRMC Reserve Drill Pay Proposal . . . . July 28th, 2012 Jonn’s recent article concerning the recent QRMC proposals concerning revamping military reserve pay got me thinking. So […]