University of California-Irvine and fending off the decline of society

| March 9, 2015

Cross posted from paying home.

Honor

I’m fairly certain that every generation from Adam and Eve down to today has thought the following generation was moronic, weak and less than industrious.  Lord knows there’s plenty lately to support that.  I’m not sure if it is the proliferation of new media just bringing more of it to light, or if people are actually getting dumber.  (If you haven’t seen “Idiocracy” the movie, you should.)

Let’s start with a few recent examples.  This morning I awoke to this horrific story:

Two American tourists now have a criminal record in Italy after they were caught carving their names into Rome’s Colosseum, according to The Guardian.

The visiting Californians snuck away from their tour group on Saturday and began scratching their initials into the amphitheater walls using a coin, The Guardian reported.

Police caught the pair but not before they managed to carve a “J” and an “N” around 3 inches high into the Colosseum wall. The paper also reports that the women took a selfie with their carvings. 

Carving your initials into a nearly 2000 year old building that has huge cultural significance is beyond stupid.  Taking a picture of it goes even further.  I’m not a judge in Italy, and it is a good thing, because I would have “SPQR” tatooed on their foreheads and put them on the first plane out of the country.  (A Facebook friend suggested they be forced to fight lions in the now defaced building, but that might go too far.)

This follows on the heels of two other morons visiting Cambodia:

Two Arizona sisters received a kick in the pants after pulling theirs down in a Cambodian temple, authorities said.

Leslie Adams, 20, and Lindsey Adams, 22, were sentenced Saturday to be deported after they took naked pictures of each other in Preah Khan Temple in Cambodia’s Angkor complex the day before, officials said.

The sisters of Prescott, Ariz., were arrested after they were caught snapping pictures of each other mooning the camera inside the World Heritage site, AFP reported.

I’m guessing the Adams sisters weren’t finalists for Rhodes scholarships to begin with, but what could possess someone to think that naked selfies in a temple is a wise action?  It’s not that people who moon others are unlikely to succeed in life (as #1 on my Enemy’s List Peyton Manning has proven) but there’s probably a time and a place for it, and standing in the middle of Angkor definitely falls in the “don’t be that stupid” category.  

And revisiting an earlier story, there was the Lindsey Stone incident, which if you don’t recall was her thinking it was funny to stand next to the “Silence and Respect” sign at Arlington National Cemetery and fake she was shouting and gave the middle finger.  Then put it on Facebook.  Because being an idiot isn’t enough nowadays, one must advertise your lack of social grace.

As my friend Jonn Lilyea noted a few weeks ago, Ms Stone has paid a horrible price for a Facebook Profile picture.  Citing to the UK Daily Mail, Ms Stone had this to say:

After almost a year of sending resumes to employers and receiving no response for employment, Stone says she was hired to work with autistic children.

‘But I’m terrified’ of her employers finding the photo, Stone said, and feels trapped because she can’t simply ask whether they’ve seen it and simply don’t care.

[…]

‘Since it happened, I haven’t tried to date anybody. How much do you let a new person into your life? Do they already know?’

The price of being a moron is skyrocketing.  

Now, don’t get me wrong, I was a bad kid, who did stupid things.  It’s absolutely astonishing I lived to be 20.  I was pretty much idiotic on a scale that should have been unprecedented.  But at some point responsibility has to kick in.

Which brings me to two more stories from the past two days.  First, a Prom in Albuquerque, New Mexico:

Promunism.  Promunism.  Are you kidding me?

My Senior Class at High School voted for “Imagine” by John Lennon as our graduation song, and it angered me so much I put forth “I’m Wasted and I can’t Find My Way Home” by Blind Faith.  Alas, my nomination lost.  Actually, I shouldn’t say alas, because it was an assinine suggestion, but no less so I felt than “Imagine” which struck me as communist absurdity, long before I even recognized communist absurdity when I saw it.  I haven’t been able to listen to the Beatles since, and believe me, I loved them prior to that.  But come on:

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man

I’ll grant it is a catchy tune, but without possessions (say a farm tractor for instance) exactly how would there be no hunger?  Are we to dine on grass?  Without possessions, my Guinness would be water.  Thanks, but no, I’d rather not imagine that.  St Patrick’s day is coming, and without possessions there would be no Irish Pubs, no stools to sit on, no person to happily make a shamrock in the foam.  In short, existence would be nasty, brutish, short, and without the nectar of the Gods.

So then we get to the  University of California-Irvine which is setting a very low bar on being an “institution of higher learning.”  

Student leaders at the University of California-Irvine vetoed a resolution on Saturday that would have banned hanging flags of any nation, including America’s Stars and Stripes, in the lobby of student government offices, amid widespread criticism from students and alumni.

The Legislative Council of the Associated Students of the University of California, Irvine’s passed the resolution, “Flags and decoration adjustment for inclusivity,” in a 6-4 vote Tuesday with the stated intention of creating a “more inclusive” environment.

Not having the flag makes a place more inclusive?  In what sense exactly?  

One Facebook commenter made a great point:

“As a military veteran, American citizen and taxpayer, I find this piece of ‘legislation’ highly offensive,” a commenter said on the ASUCI ‘s Facebook student page, in one of the more mildly worded complaints. “This is a public school, supported by taxpayers, (yes, I know, most of you pay tuition, as well, but that does not cover the entire cost), and it is appropriate to display the United States Flag on campus. Please reconsider your actions and rescind this resolution.”

He’s right.  How can folks go to a college at least partially paid for by federal funds via grants and other things, and yet find that Government itself is exclusive?  

At least there were four people on the council who had IQs north of an eggplant, and this guy, who gets it right:

Student-body President Reza Zomorrodian also publicly opposed the legislation, leading the Executive Cabinet of student government to convene on Saturday to veto the legislation.

“We fundamentally disagree with the actions taken by ASUCI Legislative Council and their passage of R50-70 as counter to the ideals that allow us to operate as an autonomous student government organization with the freedoms of speech and expression associated with it,” the executive cabinet said in a statement. “It is these very symbols that represent our constitutional rights that have allowed for our representative creation and our ability to openly debate all ranges of issues and pay tribute to how those liberties were attained.”

Good on Reza.  

I’m fairly lucky in my work because I get to spend one week a year (sometimes two) at American Legion Boys State, and another week at American Legion Boys Nation.  I only remember one time something like this came up.  Doing interviews for Boys Nation one of the counselors asked one of the potential candidates for Boys Nation (there are two who go from each state) what he thought about living in a Representative Democracy to which the kids responded that America needed to look to other nations for guidance on better governance, like France and Venezuela.  There were 5 interviewers who asked questions,  This kid only made it to that question and was told “I think we have everything we need, thanks for your time.”

But the 99 percent of the other kids that I see there “get it.”  I stay in touch with them on Facebook, and they are all trying to be the best that they can in representing their generation.  Some are in foreign countries working at embassies (one even helped me when I got stuck in Dakar, Senegal) others are at service academies, and some are now in law school.  My two weeks a year with those kids always brings me back from the ledge of thinking that we’re going to hell in a handbasket.  Unfortunately, the stories like the ones above don’t help.

My only thought about the flag controversy, or at least the only ones fit to print, is summed up best in the Meme that is at the top of this post.  Although it has proliferated all over the internet, I know the guy who first made it.  He served as a squad leader with me in Afghanistan.  And right now he is getting his Masters degree, and hopes to go into education.  If he was the faculty advisor at ASUCI or in charge of “Promunism” he’d probably regress to some much needed wall-to-wall counseling.  

And rightly so.  America is a country that is both melting pot, and shining beacon on the hill.  We stand in front of the bullets to protect the weak.

If you don’t want the exclusion of having to see our nations symbol in your school, then go live on a commune somewhere.  Actions have consequences.  Stupid ones no less so than good actions.

Category: Politics

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sj

Welcome back…was afraid the DRG hit squad had found you. Great article.

L. Taylor

I do not see how any of this is indicative of the decline of society. Just a bunch of Anecdotes of a few of America’s 318 million people doing stupid and a few doing stuff you simply do not agree with.

A few Irvine kids voted not to hang any national flags on the wall of the student council office and it became a politisiced national news story and the right frothed out the mouth calling for defunding of public universities and stopping fedeal financial aid to students.

If anything the reaction is more of a sign of the decline of our civilization then these kids voting to do this.

And their act was less about protest and more about inclusiveness as student representatives. Quite different than some of the flag actions that happened in the 1960s and 1970s. So at worst college kids are about the same as they were then. Certainly not a decline.

I do not see the big deal of a prommunism theme. It has nothing to do with political-economic ideology. It probably just sounded cool to them as a play on the word “prom.” I doubt a single kid at that school had read the communist manifesto and half probably could not tell you where the Soviet Union was on a map, or point to Cuba or North Korea. To them “communism” is a historical anachronism not an ideology.

And despite what some of the old timers seem to fear, communism is a discarded ideology. North Korea is essentially only functioning because its black markets now. China is a capitalist authoritarian regime that sells its labor supply in the global market place. 95% of Cuba’s population is participates in their shadow market economy. Russia is a kleptocracy.

L. Taylor

should have typed that in word first to catch the errors.

Old Trooper

“And their act was less about protest and more about inclusiveness as student representatives.”

Really? Inclusiveness? How so? You’re in the United States of America! Chances are the American flag is gonna be flying somewhere around you. If that offends or upsets you, then I think you need to find a new country to be “inclusive” in.

“And despite what some of the old timers seem to fear, communism is a discarded ideology.”

You’re full of shit. Us “old timers” never have “feared” communism. Why is it that you snot nosed faux intellectuals always think that we “fear” something that we don’t agree with? As an ideology, communism goes against everything our nation was set up as. Why do you think they built the Berlin Wall? It sure as fuck wasn’t to keep the free West out.

L. Taylor

I am not offended by the flag.
“then I think you need to find a new country to be “inclusive” in.”

I do not think you know what the word “inclusive” means.

As for “fearing” communism. If it does not apply to you then don’t take it personal. However, they did not call it “red scare” on accident. I have lurked on the board for a long time and I have read quite a few comments from posters that are essentially locked into an early cold war mentality and are concerned that communism will infiltrate and take over our society.

That is the notion I am referring to and it is pretty well established in the comments of several posters.

Old Trooper

Socialism is commie-lite. It’s the soft sell on the way to the food line. Look at Venezuela right now. That’s where your socialism gets you. They are on the path to full blown communism and they are in the process of reaping what they have sowed. I have heard it all before, from the genius students of the SDS and the like minded commies of the day, all the way up to now; the reason communism failed is because the right people weren’t in charge. Yeah, the road to ruin is paved with the communist manifesto. If you want to look at where are society is going, just read through the points laid out in that manifesto and then take a look at where we are. That you think the kids today don’t know what communism is means that the commies are winning through purposeful ignorance. Us “old timers” know the dangers of the road to communism and excuse us if we are concerned with warning the next few generations about those dangers.

As for the inclusive comment. I know exactly what it means. The problem is; too many don’t. America used to be the melting pot, where you were an American. Then, the celebrate diversity crowd came along and suddenly, you’re a hyphenated American. Now everyone is segragated into groups and everyone group is special. That’s not inclusive; that’s divisive. The democrats want to be so inclusive that they want non-citizens to vote in our elections. That’s not inclusive; that’s destructive. Name another soveriegn nation on the planet that allows that.

For someone that makes it sound like you’re smarter than us “old timers”, you’re really not. We have something you don’t; wisdom.

L. Taylor

I have not heard any serious contemporary political discussion about giving foreigners the right to vote.

I would be strongly opposed to that.

However, there is historical precedent and it has at various times been legal in some states.

There are a lot of countries in this world and not a single one has a truly free market system though Singapore and Hong Kong are regarded as the freest economies in the world. Ironically, since Hong Kong is under Chinese rules, and the majority of housing in Singapore is highly socialistic public housing.

“Socialistic” Canada has an economy rated as more free than ours. As does Demnark (also socialistic by US standards).

There an incredible spectrum of social market economies.

Having socialistic aspects of an economy does not lead to communism or even to the conditions that Venezuela is dealing with.

Many nations with more socialistic economies not only score better on quality of life for their citizens but they also score higher on social and political freedom. Norway, Denmark, Canada, Sweden etc.

Meanwhile many countries with market economies rated more free than ours have very low scores with respect to social and political freedom and quality of life. Hong Kong, Singapore for instance.

Old Trooper

If you haven’t heard of the discussion of letting non-citizens vote then you haven’t been paying attention. It’s happening right now in this country.

As for socialist markets; I noticed you haven’t addressed Venezuela. Socialism,as I said, goes against our founding ideology.

L. Taylor

Venezuela is a red herring. There have been times when the economies of several countries could be used as an examples of the failure of capitalism. The US included.

The fact is there are several “socialistic” economies doing quite well. Some arguable better than the US.

There is no pure market economy anywhere in the world. All nations have a mixed market economy with both capitalistic and socialistic aspects to various degrees. Some even have strong centrally controlled and planned aspects to their markets. We have some central planning in our monetary policy for instance.

To say any is in of themselves a cause for failure is not supported by the evidence. There are things best managed as public goods and there are things best left to the market. And those things are not always the same across all societies and all markets. Too many factors at play.

Ex-PH2

Discussion regarding letting non-citizens vote goes back a ways. Here are references to that discussion:

2008: http://www.cis.org/NoncitizenVoting

2010: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010/10/24/states-weigh-letting-noncitizens-vote/

2013:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/05/09/noncitizens-vote-in-new-york-city-bill-immigrants-elections_n_3246717.html

Whether or not any bills were passed is irrelevant. The discussion about it has been around for a long time.

L. Taylor

Sure it has been around since the founding of our nation and at times some states allowed not citizens to vote.

I just do not see it as having much traction today. I am not surprised it is being discusses in some local areas. But it is certainly not an idea the democrats are supporting as a party line.

I am pretty liberal but I would oppose it as a national law. If a local community wants to do it that is on them.

It really has a precedent in the US that goes back to our founding. And various parties supported it depending on the political preferences of the non-citizens in question.

valerie

It was the communists who called it the “red scare” in an effort to discredit those who recognized that the Communist regimes were as pernicious.

L. Taylor

No. The origin of the term was the late 1920s. After the first historical “red scare” had come and passed.

It was social commentary, mostly by lawyers and politicians (from both parties not a single one of them communists) who were editorializing on the cost of such hysteria on free speech and political freedom. Clarence Darrow was one of the commentators that popularized the term having originally popularized the term “May Day Scare” in response to a May Day movement crackdown.

Of course you can claim that people defending the 1st Amendment are communists because it makes it harder to arrest communists if we respect the constitution.

McCarthy made similar claims.

Hondo

While you’re correct about Darrow and the term “May Day scare”, I don’t believe the term “Red Scare” was particularly common until Murry B. Levine of Boston University popularized it in the early 1970s in his book Political Hysteria in America: The Democratic Capacity for Repression.

You are aware that Levine was a former member of the CPUSA and a lifelong radical leftist, right?

Ex-PH2

Yes, until he died in 1999, Murray Burton Levin, Ph.D. (1927–1999) was a political science professor at Boston University from 1955 through his retirement in 1989. A progressive who once had been a member of the Communist Party USA, Levin was an unreconstructed radical throughout his academic career.

L. Taylor

I did a google search of the use of the term for all books and publication in google’s text frequency database.
https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=%22Red+Scare%22&year_start=1800&year_end=2000&corpus=15&smoothing=3&share=&direct_url=t1%3B%2C%22%20Red%20Scare%20%22%3B%2Cc0

Then I searched for articles using the term from 1920-1930 in a news paper database (public access not available it requires an ID passcode from my an authorized institution).

But there are publicly available databases.

L. Taylor

It was an already well established term by time Levine published. And it was not even the title of his book.

The title “Red Scare: A National Hystaria, 1919-1920”, by Dr. Robert K. Murray, Professor Emeritus of History at the Pennsylvania State University, was published in 1955
http://www.amazon.com/Red-Scare-National-1919-1920-Minnesota/dp/0816658331

But even by 1955 the term was well known. It was literally what they called the events of 1919-1920.

Hondo

Not really. The graph produced by using a case-insensitive version of the literature search tool you provide above shows it was used – relatively uncommonly – starting in the 1920s. But it also shows that use became far more common in the late-1960s/early 1970s – coincident with the radicalization of US academia that began in the 1960s.

I’m aware of Murray’s work. I also note the timing: it was published in 1955 – at the end of the second “Red Scare” – the McCarthyite one. I’m guessing that later example prompted Murray to write his work in 1955. But even then, the usage of the term didn’t skyrocket like it did starting about a decade later.

Ozzie 11B
Delilah T.

I guess ol’ lardbutt hasn’t heard that Vietnam is a country with a communist government, as is the People’s Republic of China. And those are just two operating today under that ‘discarded ideology’.

Missed that one, didn’t you, lardhead?

Man, you really ARE that stupid!

Sgt K

You should have stuck with the “lurking” part. Instead you take to the keyboard to let the world know the limits of your intelligence.

L. Taylor

When I say “discarded ideology” it means it is not regarded as an effective way to govern a modern society or manage its economy. Monarchism is considered a discarded notion as well but there are still a half dozen absolute monarchies left.

Vietnam has shifted away from the communist era planned economy toward a social-market economy. Still more much more socialistic than market though.

We have a social market economy as well but much much more market than socialistic.

China is not communist either. It has a socialistic-market economy in most areas but in many economic zones it is a fairly free market economy, in some cases more free market than our own. As an authoritarian regime they really have made an industry out of selling their labor supply in the global marketplace.

The only really communist countries left are Cuba, North Korea, and Laos. Laos is shifting toward a social market economy.

Cuba and North Korea are still centrally planned but their societies are heavily and increasingly dependent on their shadow or black market economies.

i expect Cuba to shift to a social market economy.

North Korea is relying more on its shadow economy but since ultimately it is about power Kim Jong Un could try to bring that under his control and disrupt or destroy their functions in the process.

There will be a coup or a revolution or an unexplained death for Kim Jong Un within a decade.

Pinto Nag

Let’s see if I have this straight. If it’s called a ‘social market economy’ in the various places you mentioned…then do they call all their mass graves ‘social burial plots’?

I just want to make sure I use the proper phrases. Proper phrasing is very important to the leaders of social market economies — and anybody living under such a system that wishes to maintain their good health.

L. Taylor

The mass graves comment is absurd. I assume you are talking about China, a half century ago, when they had a communist economy and mass starvation?

I never said North Korea has a social market economy. Only that they have a shadow economy that helps to support their societies needs and keep the planned economy from collapsing.

And since you do not seem to be pretty dismissive of a social-market economy here are some other social market economies that do quite well.

Germany
Japan
Norway
Sweden
Finland
Denmark

Thunderstixx

Mass graves absurd ?
Tell that to the families that lost people in that genocide…
What an ass you are.

Old Trooper

If you consider price controls and rationed healthcare as successful, then they sure are!

Sweden admitted that socialized medicine has ruined their economy.

Norway is trying to keep Swedish young people out of their country, because they can’t afford to pay for them.

Germany, Japan, and most all of Western Europe could afford to have socialist economies, because they didn’t have to pay for their own defense (that’s what they counted on us to do). Now that they don’t have our blanket protection, they have had to revisit their economic model.

You keep claiming that these commie countries have a vibrant black market, but that’s the problem, no one should have to live like that. Free market economies work best. Always have, always will.

Face it; for every example you throw up, we can throw up a counter to it, or put it in the proper context.

Old Trooper

As a great lady once said; the problem with socialism is you eventually run out of other people’s money.

Delilah T.

You are unbelievable in your level or sheer ignorance.

What do you do with your time? Obviously, you don’t spend it studying.

These are countries currently governed by Communist parties:

People’s Republic of China 1 October 1949; Communist Party of China; Xi–Li Administration: Xi Jinping; Li Keqiang

Republic of Cuba; 1 July 1961; Communist Party of Cuba: Raul Castro

Lao People’s Democratic Republic: 2 December 1975; Lao People’s Revolutionary Party: Choummaly Sayasone

Socialist Republic of Vietnam: 2 September 1945 (in the north) 2 July 1976 (unified);
Communist Party of Vietnam: Tetrarchy: Nguyễn Phú Trọng; Trương Tấn Sang; Nguyễn Tấn Dũng; Nguyễn Sinh Hùng

North Korea does NOT have a Communist government. It is a hereditary autocracy run by the Kim family since the truce that stopped the Korean War. If you think Fatty Kim III will not keep his seat, you are indeed stupid. His sister will step in if anything happens to him. He executed his uncle Jang Son-Thaek and his entire family last year to clamp down on any possibility of mutiny.

http://rt.com/news/korean-leader-family-slayed-213/

You are just ridiculous. You don’t know what you’re talking about but you run on as if you have some inside info, which you do not. What I have posted is is public knowledge and is current.

You are completely wrong. It’s time you stopped pretending that you know anything more than how to run your mouth.

L. Taylor

The fact that the ruling party calls themselves a communist party does not mean the economy is a communist economy. China has a socialist market economy. Some areas more socialist, some areas more market, some areas even more free market than the US. That is a fact. They do not have a communist economy anymore. They simply DO NOT. The name of their party is irrelevant. Just as the words “Democratic” and “Republic” are irrelevant in the name “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea” North Korea still has a mostly communist economy. It is still mostly central planned. However, it would fail if it were not for the shadow market economy that is helping to meet societal needs. Of course everything I post is public knowledge. I would be an absolute idiot and be reported by people on this board who either do not like or are just doing their duty within minutes if I were to post information that was not public. But with respect to economic and most political structures there is no need to rely on non public information. I think you are still confused by the concept of “shadow economy” if you think my use of the term indicates “inside info”. As for this comment: “If you think Fatty Kim III will not keep his seat, you are indeed stupid. His sister will step in if anything happens to him.” Nonsense. Complete rubbish. First, I think you mean “aunt” not “sister”. Second, Kim Jong Un faces an almost impossible task in trying to maintain power. Just the lack of control over the shadow economy and the amount of information and foreign goods that is bringing in alone is a direct threat to his legitimacy not to mention and threat to his power because it makes the society and many key players in his government not dependent on the state for their livelihood. It also puts him in direct conflict with several powerful people in his regime that he would have to imprison or kill to try to take control over their influence on the economy. The millions… Read more »

Delilah T.

You provide no references, you cite no sources, nothing, to support your use of the term ‘shadow economy’.

North Korea is a totalitarian regime, governed by a cult of personality. That is a fact, acknowledged and widely reported by the media and people who visit the Norks.

The Kim government has been handing out cell phones to North Koreans, as this article in National Journal indicates – over 2 million, in fact.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/tech/kim-jong-un-just-doubled-his-country-s-cell-phone-use-but-don-t-expect-a-korean-spring-20140307

Since North Korea is the chief suspect behind the recent cyber attack on Sony Entertainment, and the government monitors all electronic use, your assertion that there is trafficking in unmonitored cell phone use has no support.

If you refuse to cite a resource for your statement, then one can only assume that you made it up out of dust bunnies.

You have not backed up even one statement in all the comments you’ve made. You cite no resources. You just throw it out there and expect people to swallow it just because you said it. Things don’t work that way.

Cite your references.

L. Taylor

Shadow Economy is the economy not functioning within the legal framework of a society. Illicit items and services make up a shadow economy, even “legal” stuff can be part of the shadow economy is the trade is done to avoid government taxes or regulations. The term is similar to “Black Market” but Shadow economy emphasizes the scale and pervasiveness of the activity as well the lack of government oversight and control.

Delilah, there is a huge difference between phones the North Koreans are permitted to own and the ones they are getting through the shadow economy. For one, North Korean approved phones cannot access the internet. Smuggled Chinese phones can.
Here is an article.
http://uskoreainstitute.org/research/special-reports/ykim030614/

If you want to challenge any specific point I will provide a source. But it appears sometimes it is not really the info you are disagreeing with but my use of the terms themselves.

The Other Whitey

First off, Larsy, you’re still an arrogant fuckstick.

Second, any socialist/communist regime is a kleptocracy. The only distinction is who does the thieving. These regimes dispossess a man by force or threat of force of that which he has built or earned by the sweat of his brow in the name of the “greater good.” That “greater good” comes in one of two flavors: either enhancing the lavish lifestyle of the political elite (Cuba, Red China, North Korea, Vietnam, Venezuela, the old USSR), or slowly but surely bankrupting their society, increasing economic dependence on foreign “guest workers” who will usually live in ghetto neighborhoods, rising crime, skyrocketing taxes, and cultural decay (pick a European “socialist democracy;” they’re all in various stages of this).

The bottom line is this: I will decide what’s in my best interests and work, vote, and recreate accordingly. Me. Not you, not The Party, not the Glorious Leader. Any regime that would presume otherwise is tyrannical and antithetical to Liberty.

“Rebellion to tyrants is obedience to God.”
-Benjamin Franklin

L. Taylor

A lot of ideology and rhetoric but no facts.

We never had a truly free market economy in this country and never will.

They don’t work. Not in a way that is conducive to maintaining any level of social stability. Same reason anarchy does not work.

The question is not whether to regulate the market or whether to govern society. The question is to what extent and how best to do so.

I am a little tired of the rhetoric of those that claim anything involving taxpayer money that is not about wars and security is “communistic.”

There is mountains of empirical research that proves without a doubt that investment in some types of public goods pays huge dividends in GPD, quality of life, national defense, and reduces several negative externalities of an economy.

There is nothing about capitalism or democracy that prevents kleptocracies either. The US has pretty pervasive kleptocratic mechanisms in its economy.

You are fixated on the word “communism” while ignoring the fact that the word does not really mean anything when you look at how modern economies function anywhere in the world.

Just as the word “Democratic” or “Minju” does not mean anything in the name “Democratic People’s Republic of Korea”

If they changed the name to “Capitalist Democratic Republic of Korea” would it change a damn thing?

Stop being angry at labels and look at the economies themselves.

Maybe then you will spend less time calling people “communists” and more time realizing our economy is not functioning in a way that does much to promote the freedom you claim to love.

Delilah T.

So my post that clearly shows those countries which are Communist is something you choose to ignore.

You are so consistently unwilling to admit that you don’t have a clue to the REAL world because you don’t live in it.

It’s nice to have a fantasy, but classroom theories and idealist projections built on hot air and moonbeams do not hold up in the glare of the reality of real-world experience.

It’s unfortunate, however, that your brain, which is made of mush instead of neural ganglia, accepts classroom theories and refuses to acknowledge or even look at REALITY. And the REALITY

nbcguy54ACTUAL

Oh good God woman – are you trying to have an intelligent conversion with cpt Lard? Let me send you a box of rocks. You’ll have better luck.

Delilah t.

Well, NBCguy, it IS fun until you realize what a blockhead lardbutt is, and that you can’t get past that craniotomy he had that blocks intake of new information.

I just wonder if he’s the inspiration for the new TV show ‘I, Zombie’. She eats brains.

L. Taylor

I live in the real world.

You just insist on labeling economies “communist” that no longer are because they once were without any regard whatsoever to the empirically measurable way the economies actually function.

It is nonsense. And it is delusional.

Cuba, North Korea, and Laos are the only countries that are still largely a planned “communist” economies. However, both North Korea and Cuba have huge shadow market economies that most their society participate in and the nations would probably collapse without.

And since my original comment was “communism is a discarded ideology” the fact that there are only three countries with planned communist economies and none of them would actually be functioning without their shadow market economies or are actively becoming social marker economies then I think my statements is supported by the REALITY in the world.

My understanding of the world is not based only on the classroom, or the fact that I have read the original works of very single major political economist that ever put pen to paper and hundreds of empirically supported research papers.

It also comes from experiencing the world directly.
Including more than a decade where I specialized in paying particular attention to events in North Korea.

GDContractor

Please let us know when you quit working the serving line at Baskin Robbins and write two autobiographies. I’m sure you’ll make a wonderful president.

Delilaht T.

Lars, ignorant ass, an economy is the means by which a population brings money into a country.

AN ECONOMY DOES NOT RUN THE GOVERNMENT. GOVERNMENT RECEIVES MONEY FROM ECONOMY THROUGH TAXATION.

Obviously, you do not know the difference between econnomy and government. Well, lardhead, they are not the same thing, you moronic twank.

Any communist government can loosen the reins on its economy to generate revenue. Are you really so dense that you don’t understand that?

That does not change the position of government as the ruling body.

Try reading for comprehension once in a while.

L. Taylor

First, the government and the economy are embedded in society with each other.

They serve different FUNCTIONS in a society but they absolutely do not operate independently.

I never said anything like “loosening the reigns changes their position as a governing body.” But if a communist government with a centrally planned economy decides to shift to a social market economy they are not communist. They are still the government body BUT THEY ARE NOT COMMUNIST. Since a communist economy is DEFINED as centrally planned because the market price mechanism does not exist in a communist economy. The Chinese government is ‘communist’ in name only. They are generally capitalist in approach to the economy while remaining authoritarian in most but not all areas with respect to the society.

They, like China, can still be authoritarian but they are not longer communist.

Currently besides the authoritarian nature in which china governs the society, they are not so authoritarian with respect to the economy. In many areas they have set up economic zones with full property rights that have more market freedoms than we have in the US economy.

In others they operate like a capitalist dictatorship. They own the land and they agree to land usage agreements to corporations in exchange for some of the revenue.

In America the land is owned or leased by the corporation so it is privately held. The government still gets a share of the corporate revenue through local, state, and federal taxes.

Ideologically they are very different, but FUNCTIONALLY they are very similar. In both cases the company controls the lands for the purpose of doing business and in both cases the government gets a share of the revenue.

L. Taylor

Oh and your definition of an economy:
“an economy is the means by which a population brings money into a country.”

is decidedly inaccurate and incomplete, and humorously mercantilist. It is ironic that you essentially conceive of an economy the same way mercantilists did because they were huge proponents of letting the state run the economy.

Delilah T.

Oh, and one last thing: don’t use terms like economy, empirical, and socialist until you actually know what they mean.

A priori knowledge demonstrates clearly that you do not have a clue about anything. You are simply repeating someone else’s written theories, which do not hold up under scrutiny in the light of day.

L. Taylor

Delilah, I absolutely know what they mean and if you did as well we would not be arguing.

Most of what you are saying is hip pocket nonsense with no more understanding of these terms than 6th grade social studies.

Delilah T.

Oh. Dear. God. ‘Shadow economy’? Is that supposed to be like some secret squirrel thing that only your know about? This is directly from the Central Intelligence Agency: North Korea, one of the world’s most centrally directed and least open economies, faces chronic economic problems. Industrial capital stock is nearly beyond repair as a result of years of underinvestment, shortages of spare parts, and poor maintenance. Large-scale military spending draws off resources needed for investment and civilian consumption. Industrial and power output have stagnated for years at a fraction of pre-1990 levels. Frequent weather-related crop failures aggravated chronic food shortages caused by on-going systemic problems, including a lack of arable land, collective farming practices, poor soil quality, insufficient fertilization, and persistent shortages of tractors and fuel. Large-scale international food aid deliveries have allowed the people of North Korea to escape widespread starvation since famine threatened in 1995, but the population continues to suffer from prolonged malnutrition and poor living conditions. Since 2002, the government has allowed private “farmers’ markets” to begin selling a wider range of goods. It also permitted some private farming – on an experimental basis – in an effort to boost agricultural output. In December 2009, North Korea carried out a redenomination of its currency, capping the amount of North Korean won that could be exchanged for the new notes, and limiting the exchange to a one-week window. A concurrent crackdown on markets and foreign currency use yielded severe shortages and inflation, forcing Pyongyang to ease the restrictions by February 2010. In response to the sinking of the South Korean warship Cheonan and the shelling of Yeonpyeong Island, South Korea’s government cut off most aid, trade, and bilateral cooperation activities, with the exception of operations at the Kaesong Industrial Complex. In preparation for the 100th anniversary of KIM Il-sung’s birthday in 2012, North Korea continued efforts to develop special economic zones with China and expressed willingness to permit construction of a trilateral gas pipeline that would carry Russian natural gas to South Korea. The North Korean government often highlights its goal of becoming a “strong and prosperous”… Read more »

L. Taylor

I said North Korea is still communist, but wont be for much longer. And that they have a large shadow economy which keeps their economy from collapsing.

Since you do not know what a ‘shadow economy’ is then you have no understanding what I wrote. If you do not even understand the words I am saying how are you so sure I am wrong?

If you did understand what I wrote you would see that nothing I said is contrary to what the CIA says. In fact, I could have copied and pasted much of it to support my argument.

Like this part right here WHERE THEY DISCUSS THE SHADOW ECONOMY!:
“A concurrent crackdown on markets and foreign currency use yielded severe shortages and inflation, forcing Pyongyang to ease the restrictions by February 2010.”

Or this part where they discuss efforts to shift away from a centrally planned communist economy.

“North Korea continued efforts to develop special economic zones with China and expressed willingness to permit construction of a trilateral gas pipeline that would carry Russian natural gas to South Korea. The North Korean government often highlights its goal of becoming a “strong and prosperous” nation and attracting foreign investment, a key factor for improving the overall standard of living. In this regard, in 2013 the regime rolled out 14 new Special Economic Zones set up for foreign investors, though the initiative remains in its infancy.”

L. Taylor

Of course the CIA, like me, might just be “simply repeating someone else’s written theories, which do not hold up under scrutiny in the light of day.”

Because we all know how the CIA has no idea what the words “economy” and “socialism” mean.

/end sarcasm.

VajraCoyote

What bothers me most in this thread is that while “L. Taylor” is mistaken about a great deal, he refrains from name calling and acting like an asshole.

While the loyal patriots seem unable to address any of his points without acting out like ill-bred children.

If you’re on the side of the good guys, trying to support Truth and Justice and Decency…act like it.

Spill blood when we must, but there’s no call to be rude.

GDContractor

I kindly suggest you go read some of L. Taylor’s other writings. His karma is running over his dogma.

Hondo

Not sure I agree that Lars has exactly been civil on this thread, fella – and he certainly hasn’t been in previous ones.

Here’s one sample from Lars on this thread: “Seriously, how stupid can you be?”

And here’s another – from the same comment:
“So it sounds like it is your ass he stuck it up. And you seem to enjoying it. I guess you are into bikers.”

Other threads have even stronger statements.

GDContractor

Plus, he’s a racist, given his comments about Allen West. He’s either a racist or a hypocrite, quite possibly both.

nbcguy54ACTUAL

You’re a little late to the “History of the World According to cpt Lard” aren’t you?

Ex-PH2

Well, and then there’s that whole thing about lardass’s co-opting a thread for himself because he’s an attention whore. He’s also an academic thief, because he uses references without citing the source.

For example, he uses the term ‘shadow economy’ as if he created it. He did not do so. The author of that term is Hyung min-Joo.

So, viagra coyote (yeah, I know how you spelled it), you can tell him that while academic theft is common, it’s unethical. Probably won’t make a dent in his ego trip, but he can be an attention whore some place else.

In fact, he should start his very OWN blog. No one will argue with him then.

Richard

Ya know Lars, I just don’t think that you have any idea what you are talking about. Please tell me where you have been in the world because you sound book-learning-rich and experience-poor.

The problem with that combination is that you have no context. I’m not angry at the labels. I am angry at the people who perpetrate neglect, suffering or horrors on their citizens so that they can have power.

Have you ever walked through those beautiful cemeteries in Europe with lines of immaculate crosses and names lovingly engraved in stone? They are still cemeteries. Ever been to Verdun or Berlin or Normandy or the camps?

My high school German teacher left Budapest in 1956 in the middle of the night with her husband and kids. They walked to the Austrian border and crossed in secret in the dark under the guns of the Soviet soldiers.

Any of your friends living a comfortable life in the city in Beijing get sent to the countryside so their father could work farms with hand tools for a few years?

Are any of your friends Chinese, forced out of Vietnam in 1978, robbed of all their possessions by pirates in the South China Sea, do it again, get to Thailand, spend years in camps, then immigrate to US?

Any of your friends fly out of Lima Site 20-alternate against the Pathet Lao? Have you been to Laos or Vietnam?

I don’t think that you understand how bad communism is because you haven’t seen it. Tell me, where have you been?

L. Taylor

Korea, Turkey, Afghanistan, Iraq, Mexico, Germany, Japan, Spain, Greece…and some few day visits to a half dozen other countries.

However, your comments seem to indicate that you have no idea what I have written in my posts. How does any of your post refute the fact that few countries can be said to be still communist, Cuba, North Korea, and Laos; and they are all shifting away from it or will soon?

You appear to think I am PROMOTING communism. Which is nonsense, because my comment that precipitated this ridiculous debate is “Communism is a discarded ideology.”

Richard

You said, “Cuba, North Korea, and Laos are the only countries that are still largely a planned “communist” economies. ”

Laos has had a mostly market economy since 1993 — about 22 years ago. For example, I can buy Beer Lao in the US. Over-harvesting for export, Laos nearly wiped out their Teak forests. By the late 1980s the government ended cutting teak. The central market in Phonsavan seemed to be out of any sort of control – vibrant, colorful, and noisy like markets in a lot of places. Lots of silk and sandlewood. I didn’t eat the “rats on a stick” offered for sale. So what else has to happen before Laos finishes this transition that you refer to?

L. Taylor

Right now the economy of Laos is rates 150th in economic freedoms. Hardly a market economy. They began transitioning from central planning in the late 80s and for the first two decades made solid progress but it has been a slow shift since then and essentially no progress in recent years. Lao Brewery for instance was nationalized until 1993, and It is still 50% owned by the Laotian government. Agriculture, which dominates the Laotian economy is still mostly centrally planned.

Richard

I was there a few years ago, 12 days. Luang Prabang drove to Phonsavan, and flew to Vientiane. I was traveling with people who knew the area and Thais who lived in the region their who lives. I don’t know where you get your facts, I disagree. I don’t care about any “rating”. Believe what you want, that isn’t what I saw.

The Other Whitey

Oh, I get it. If Lars says it, it’s fact. If anybody else says it, it’s rhetoric and ideology. Damn, it must be nice to be a self-righteous asshole!

MrBill

I have long been, and remain, a Beatles and Lennon fan, but I do agree with you about “Imagine”. Here’s a funny article I ran across a few years ago:

http://www.breitbart.com/big-hollywood/2009/10/27/the-worst-song-of-all-time-imagine/

Bobo

Want a communism themed prom? Punch bowl with only two cups, only Spam on white bread to eat, and ticket prices that are 90% of combined annual income and blue book value of the car driven to school every day.

Sounds like a great night to me.

Ex-PH2

You left out the long lines and no bathrooms, Bobo.

Hondo

As well as, “The students will pretend to dance, and the band will pretend to play” – to bastardize an old Soviet-era Russian joke.

The Other Whitey

Dancing WILL be performed OR ELSE, courtesy of the armed State Security personnel.

Ex-PH2

And most important, they will greeted with this:

Доброе утро, товарищ.

HMCS(FMF) ret.

And the gulags/”reeducation” camps for those that disagree…

RGR 4-78

No pretty prom dresses or tuxedos.

Just the same drab uniform is allowed for all comrades at Mao’s party.

Jordan Rott

Bobo, at first my eyes deceived me and I read your comment as communism themed porn. Now, I must find it.

Ozzie 11B

It is probably there somewhere. I meet with a bunch of vets each week and we got to talking about some of the weird shit we see on the internet.

One wise ass brought up porn and religion.

Believe it or not: Jesus Loves Porn is an actual website.

Well, if you have actually read the Bible, that’s not all that surprising, especially in the Old Testament.

PFM

You know, I did stupid things when I was 20, too. Difference from these yahoos was, I had a SGT and SFC just raring to get after me after the 1SG chewed on them a little bit for my stupidity. Accountability for your actions.

Ozzie 11B

It’s not that we get wiser with age, it’s just the fact that we’ve run out of really stupid shit to do. OH, we could go back and do the same old stupid shit over, but we are old for a reason….. the first time we did that shit it didn’t kill us. And we’re old enough now to be thinking that it just might kill us next time around. I also did a lot of stupid shit, but, when I did, I was looking over my shoulder to make sure no one else knew I did it. And there were also certain things that I would NEVER do even if no one was watching. That’s where the self respect comes in. How you act when no one is watching. I sure as hell do not understand the generation now. I find it absolutely amazing that some of their “FB friend” lists would rival the population of a small city. Really? Shit, my FB friends list is under a hundred people. That doesn’t mean I don’t have friends, or that I am “social media challenged”, It means I am very particular on who I share with, and I sure don’t post every time I take a crap or how many sheets of TP I use. There are some things that are just better left unknown. And while I am on that, nobody really cares that you had blueberry pancakes for breakfast! Are you that insecure? Is that going to be the highlight of your day? Well, if it is, I really am glad I am not you. And, yes, PFM, I was once in a unit where the chain of command actually worked. The NCO’s cared about their troops, and if you’re messin’ up, get ready to get your ass chewed. But, if you’re doing good, they also knew how to praise you. 4/502 INF Berlin Brigade Jan. 89 – Dec. 90. Sure, it was basically a “spit and polish” unit, when we were in garrison, but we were also highly trained. And they never let us forget that if… Read more »

Veritas Omnia Vincit

I like the article’s sentiment TSO…I did want to say that I find the UC Irvine campus and student body refreshing though….

Zomorrodian said he wants the American public to know that UC Irvine is a patriotic campus.

“Only six people voted for this,” he said. “We have 22,000 undergrads here. Six people made this decision. The UC Irvine has made huge contributions to bettering this country. This is an elected body that made a decision for the whole and will suffer the consequences of making that decision.”

This only concerned one building not the campus in its entirety. There was never going to be a situation where the flag didn’t fly everywhere else on campus. This was always only about the single building where these 6 morons thought they could make a statement.

I find the situation refreshing that the 6 idiots, who represent .0002727 of the student body population, were soundly thrashed for their idiotic viewpoint and the majority of that student body was offended. There will always be at least 10% of the population that is pretty much useless no matter how you slice it. The majority did not allow these 6 to silence them which is applaudable at every level.

Selfies and idiots seem to be an unavoidable situation these days….

Green Thumb

Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Americans setting the example.

Damn.

Lindsey Stone. What an idiot.

medic09

Sigh. I’m so tired of NM excelling at not being excellent. With the exception of a very small elite (validating Plato’s political philosophy, I sometimes think), even educated people here are simply oblivious to the significance of their words and actions. Not even al little complexity or sophistication to their thinking.

I do credit the school for seeing that they need to address this and see if the students even thought about the implications of their choice. Do these kids wonder why there are so many refugees from the old Communist regimes? It wasn’t just economic.

MCPO NYC USN Ret.

TSO,

Great article and a better read!

You beat me to this story, I just sent this to Jonn:

http://www.breitbart.com/california/2015/03/08/student-u-s-flag-banned-to-avoid-triggering-hurt-feelings-among-illegals/

Pinto Nag

“But at some point responsibility has to kick in.”

That’s a nice thought, but we don’t have over-crowded prisons because of the level of personal responsibility in this country. And if you need further proof of that, count the number of tail-gating morons you get during your daily travels. Horns and middle fingers are apparently the new way to say ‘Have A Nice Day’ in English!

Twist

They don’t call it speeding on I465. They call it your qualifying lap.

Slick Goodlin

“Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can”

George Michael forked out $2.1 million to buy the piano John Lennon used to compose “Imagine,”

http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-celebrities/rock-stars/john-lennon-net-worth/

John Lennon net worth : 800 million

Imagine that.

Hondo

Minor quibble, TSO – I believe the song you nominated was titled simply “Can’t Find My Way Home”. The “I’m wasted and I . . . ” phrase was indeed part of the lyrics to the tune, but wasn’t part of the title.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDAttqJ3qcg

Steve Winwood could always write. But at that point in time (1969) he could still damn near sing the tarnish off a 100-year-old statue. It’s a pity how much the years have taken a toll on his voice.

MrBill

I saw Winwood live a few years ago and he still sounded pretty good. One singer whose voice has really taken a beating is Gordon Lightfoot. I saw him about a year ago and it was almost painful to hear. His longtime band still sounded great, and his own guitar playing was still rock-solid, but the rich voice that we remember from his hit recordings is just about gone.

Hondo

MrBill: Winwood can still sing today – but take a good listen to his vocals from the 1960s, and compare them with now.

He’s still quite good today. But he was IMO hugely better then – his voice then was damn near another musical instrument rather than an excellent singing voice.

MrBill

A Facebook friend posted this recently – I’d never heard it before but I thought it sounded really good –

David

Not to mention he was one of the first “child superstars” ut didn’t get the fame of folks like Stevie Wonder or Michael Jackson. When he joined Spencer Davis didn’t I read somewhere that he was only something like 13? Too lazy to look it up..

Hondo

(chuckling) OK. Big fan of the man, so I couldn’t let that one pass.

Good to see you back, amigo.

Ex-PH2

Lennon never got over his self-hatred, no matter what he did. All that money he made, as he found out, didn’t make up for having no parents. His aunt raised him.

Those idiot tourists are the reason I never went on tours with Americans after a bus tour to Stonehenge with some bimbo from Brooklyn who couldn’t shut her mouth, even in Salisbury Cathedral, and not even when the tour guide politely asked her to be quiet.

And this generation of overgrown children are even worse: no manners, no sense of what is and is not appropriate behavior, and an unconscionable need to be exhibitionists and let everyone know about it.

Casey

I have a question for Lars and the rest of the “meh, no big deal” crowd regarding the prom: would you be as indifferent if they had voted for a Nazi theme? I’m sure the Jews and/or gay kids would have loved that. On second thought, strike that last. I doubt many teenagers these days know the significance of the pink triangle. Or -God help ups- what Judenfrei means.

On a lighter note, another take on Communism:

A political activist named Dave was just arriving in Hell, and was told he had a choice to make. He could go to Capitalist Hell or to Communist Hell.

Naturally, Dave wanted to compare the two, so he wandered over to Capitalist Hell. There outside the door was Rockerfeller, looking bored. “What’s it like in there?” asked Dave. “Well,” he replied , “In Capitalist Hell, they flay you alive, boil you in oil, chain you to a rock and let a vulture tear your liver out, and cut you up into small pieces with sharp knives.”

“That’s terrible!!” gasped Dave. “I’m going to check out Communist Hell!” He went over to Communist Hell, where he discovered a huge line of people waiting to get in; the line circled around the lobby seven times before receding off into the horizon. Dave pushed his way through to the head of the line, where he found Karl Marx busily signing people in. Dave asked Karl what Communist Hell was like.

“In Communist Hell,” said Marx impatiently, “they flay you alive, boil you in oil, chain you to a rock and let vultures tear out your liver, and cut you up into small pieces with sharp knives.”

“But … but that’s the same as Capitalist Hell!” protested Dave.

“True,” sighed Marx, “but sometimes we don’t have oil, sometimes we don’t have knives …”

Heh.

Hondo

And yet, the USSR and the PRC make Nazi Germany look like amateurs when it comes to mass murder. And on a percentage basis, the Khymer Rouge make both of those look like pikers.

L. Taylor

Good point on the Nazi theme. Makes the outrage more understandable.

But few people are particularly outraged while a NAZI theme certainly would be outrageous.

I think it because the guy that came up with ideological notions that make up Nazism used the ideology he invented to kill millions. So we can be confident it was the intended outcome of Nazism.

Marx, however, never killed anyone. He spent his days at a library reading books and never actually finished the his writings.

It was more than a half century later that anybody tried to put his theories in practice. And most scholars are certain what was implemented under communism was not much like the utopia Marx describes in the Communist Manifesto. Marx in fact did not even envision there would be a need for a government. It was a communal society where everyone was treated equally, there was no power disparities and everyone shared in the productive power of shared capital, some societies did actually exist like that at the time, Robert Owen experimented with ideas of communal living and shared capital and created some small communal successes). So Marx’s theory had no notions of the kinds of centralized authoritarian power and controlled economies later communist countries implemented.

I think that is why “Communism” as a theory is simply not widely regarded as abhorrent as Nazism as an theory.

Squelch

“Robert Owen experimented with ideas of communal living and shared capital and created some small communal successes”

New Harmony was an utter failure. Robert Owen, himself, contributed it to the diversity of the people involved.

Although he turned New Lanark was a British success story, it could never be recreated in the US.

Twist

Did you borrow that top picture from my Facebook page? If not then it is a cool coincidence since I posted it just yesterday.

Twist

Off topic, but I just got back from taking my son to see the start of the Iditarod. He got an excused absence from school to go see it since it is only the second time in it’s history that it started in Fairbanks.

Twist

They are both in it. I watched one of the take off this morning (can’t remember which one or what number they had) I didn’t see the other one since my son got cold and wanted to come home.

sj

I see what you did there TSO: you did a “squirrel” to send the DRG Hit Squad, LLC, to Alaska and away from your CP.

You need that diversion to prepare for you-know-who being your new Legion boss.

Sparks

For Lars. A bit of an example of socialism in the form of socialized medicine. In December I had open heart surgery. Two days after an angiogram which was expected to only result in one stent. After coming home from the hospital, I found a reliable blog for people who have had C.A.B.G. surgery. It has been quite helpful with information and supportive to exchange questions and answers with others who have gone through this. Many of the posters are from the UK and Canada. Their comments, worries and complaints about healthcare are quite frightening. There is a common theme among them. They are accessed for a “place in line” to see a cardiologist, then another rating to see a cardiothoracic surgeon. ALL those, who presented with the exact same angiogram results as I, wait up to three months for a place in line for surgery after a wait to see a cardiologist. Their questions and fears are real. “What can I do if I don’t last that long?” (It does not work to go to an ER with angina. They are sent away with meds and told to wait.) “What can I do to help myself make it that long?” I feel terribly for them. Sometimes their spouses write that they did not make it until the surgery date and some not even to see the cardiologist for their initial evaluation before dying. Even then, at each step, the doctors throw meds at them in an attempt to delay treatment as long as possible. This is due to the large number needing this and other surgeries and the limitations of their national healthcare systems. The only other option is private pay care. The process can go more quickly and you have a choice of doctors but depending upon the city and hospital, there are sometimes long delays in availability of surgical suites. Now, call it socialism or not. Call it what you will. The name makes no difference to the millions who depend on these socialized national healthcare systems. The name, ideology and economy don’t mean much to a… Read more »

Pinto Nag

WORD!!!

Thunderstixx

As a nurse with a couple of decades of experience and someone that is lucky to be alive after being placed on a heart transplant list 4 years ago, I have seen health care from both sides of the med cart and will tell you that lardass is completely full of shit on his theories of health care.
The government took over health care many years ago when they started Medicare.
Since then the quality of health care has consistently gotten worse particularly in facilities that rely on government programs to pay their bills.
The prices have increased exponentially as they took over more and more of the health care that we consume.
It is the usual bull shit that has caused that.
And these dumbass libs never learn, they just are so stubborn about their “utopian” policies that they have no idea, nor do they care about the failures of them every single time…
Unintended consequences of price controls and limiting of choices by us consumers that is to blame.
Fraud in the system is rampant and the people at HCFA are continually using the system to practice corporate cronyism.
Then, they give themselves bonuses because they have done so much good by implementing their programs but they don’t care about those people that they have proscribed to these stupid policies…
Health care is absolutely filled with cronyism.
Same as with ofuckwadcare as the insurance companies that underwrote ramming that POS bill through Congress are now finding out that the grass is not greener but is filled with sand burrs, tarantulas, rattler’s and a host of other unfriendly types…
Serves them right, I hope all of them get their asses handed to them, they deserve it.
With libs, it is always a panacea they seek, if we only… If we just could… If only the American people were smart enough to see my genius they would understand how wonderful life will be when we finally get to chautauqua…
As for you lardass, go fuck yourself…

L. Taylor

I am not disputing you story. Nor the testimony of those in Canada. I agree we do not have a perfect health care system and much can be done to improve up it. I am not sure what you circumstances would have rated you with respect to the wait in Canada or the UK. However, health care policy or not having any policy at all is about large numbers across society. The current system worked well for you, and I am thankful for you. But many Americans unnecessarily suffer and die each year because of inadequate access to affordable care. Anecdotes matter, each is representative of lives saved and lives lost and the impact of those they touch. But overall numbers is where the debate focuses because they represent tens of thousands of lives saved and lost and the incalculable impact on those they touch. No current plan being discussed right now is expected to lower access to care for Americans. And if you are wealthy enough to afford better insurance or care than that mechanism will still exist in the marketplace. Wealthy people will not suffer under any system being discussed. Here are some of the primary reasons national healthcare is a concern: 1. Because healthcare violates the ethical foundations justifying a free market. The ethical foundation assumes relatively equal negotiating power between buyers and sellers. This does not exist in healthcare. a) Because there is a huge asymetry in information between healthcare providers, health industries, and consumers. Consumers can’t possible be expected to navigate the costs of healthcare as informed consumers and decide which prices or procedures are or are not appropriate for the dozens of item on their medical bills. b) Because consumers do not have “alternative” goods. You could not say: “No thank you doctor, I choose not to get heart surgery because the current market price is too high, but I will take you up on the two-for-one deal you are offering on kidney’s” Often the choice in goods in the market for the consumer is “life or death,” c) Because of information asymmetries, because… Read more »

Sparks

Perhaps I wasn’t specific. “I am not sure what you circumstances would have rated you with respect to the wait in Canada or the UK.” I have questioned approximately 60 people in both countries together, online and only those who presented with the same arteries, with the same or worse percentage of blockage as I had. Those are the ones who responded it is a weeks to months wait to see a cardiologist and then 2 to 3 months to see a cardiothoracic surgeon. In the meanwhile, waiting and meds to try to control symptoms is all that is available. To have used other examples in my post would not have been valid to my point. In my state, we have “district hospitals”. I served on the board of our local district hospital for over 5 years. In district hospitals, anyone entering the doors, regardless of coverage or ability to pay, is treated. They are treated for any and all medical conditions presented from colds and flus in the ER to childbirth and…heart bypass surgery. As well as dialysis and any other condition, regardless of cost. Those costs are absorbed by two groups. First, patients with insurance in the form of higher costs charged to their carriers and the lion’s share, to local, state and federal taxpayers. Local in the form of city and county property and sales tax additions. Anyone, citizens or illegal aliens are treated the same without question. In fact is has always been the state’s and federal government’s mandated policy to never ask anyone about country of origin, except as needed for interpreters provided by state tax dollars, status of citizenship or any other identifiers other than name, SSN if they have one, any insurance available or Medicare and Medicaid. If they have none of these, they are checked in as a “No Coverage” status and enjoy the same treatment, services and medications as anyone, regardless. So, in my state, Obamacare for instance, was and is a waste. No one is refused care when needed. For the working poor even, if they are presented a bill… Read more »

L. Taylor

It actually not the best system in the world. It should be, it could be, I wish it were, but it really isn’t. I think we could make more progress and improve our society if people first accepted that we are not #1, though we arguably could be in almost everything.

We are rated:

#1 in defense spending.
#1 Per capita prison population
#1 total prison population
#1 in Super Bowl wins
#3 in competitiveness
#1 in most super rich
#9 in caring for retirees
#1 in plastic surgeons.
#1 on health care costs.
#6 on health care expenditures as a percentage of GDP
#1 as the producer of several crops
#1 on breast augmentations
#1 among industrial democracies in death by violence

However, we are
#4 in worst wealth disparity
#10 on economic freedom
#17 in happiness
#49 in freedom of the press (but #15 in perception of a free press).
#24 in literacy
#27 on social justice
#16 in quality of life
#22 out of 34 in social mobility for OECD countries.
#19 in citizen satisfaction
#44 in healthcare efficiency
#66 is religious diversity
#101 in most peaceful to live in
#23 in gender equality
#33 in internet download speeds (but among the top in costs)
#26 in child well-being
#19 in honesty
#24 in least corrupt
#27 in personal care
#23 on wage distribution
#10 on purchasing power with our wages
#125 on per capita GDP growth
#12 in prosperity
#47 in infant mortality rankings

I can go on. But you get my point. Surely we can improve in some areas and could stand to not try to be #1 in a few others.

If we were to cross check these rankings we would find a half dozen countries that consistently score better than us across nearly every ranking.

RunPatRun

Can you share the source/cite for your rankings?

GDContractor

I bet we’re #1 in retirement and health benefits for federal employees, particularly members of Congress. They do a good job of taking care of their own.

GDContractor

“Healthcare, retirement concerns, and medical concerns they can, probably should do something about.”

The current state of our healthcare and retirement systems is a direct result of lobby, legislation, and tax code…i.e., The Government. Good luck in thinking that therein lies the solution.

L. Taylor

I do think our government need so fear us more. Or at least fear our vote.

But with gerrymandered districts and campaign finance we really have little means to hold our politicians truly accountable.

So that leaves actually fearing us. And right now more Americans fear the government than the other way around.

GDContractor

So according to you, we should fear our own government but we should not fear communism. I’ll have two scoops of Rocky Road please.

GDContractor

Okay I got that wrong. Must have been the sugar. Let me try it again.

We should not fear communism.
Our Government should fear us.
If the Government feared us, they would solve problems instead of creating them; or, they would quickly solve the problems they have taken decades to create.

Did I win a free scoop?
#LaLaLand

L. Taylor

Yes. If our government feared us they would be more likely to govern in the public interest. I think it is healthy for a government to fear it people. So did our founders.

Communism is not a threat.

GDContractor

So tell us Lars, how did gerrymandering and campaign finance render the recent failure to act in the best interests of veterans at the VA (for example)?

sj

I say again: can Lars be excluded, at least from the “recent comments” count? He/she/it trolls and gets a bazillion hits. I don’t give a shit what Lars says…if I did, I’d go to Huff Post and not TAH. But, he trolls and you folks take the bait and “recent comments” overflow and anything else, that is really more interesting, is gone.

GDContractor

I agree. But I remind myself that spring break only lasts one week. After it’s over, maybe he’ll go back to being a student and getting his money’s worth from UC Berkeley College of Liberal Arts.

MrBill

I’ll give him some credit, in that he seems to have dialed down the assholishness quotient considerably today. Still, the sheer volume of his “I Know Everything Better Than You” treatise, and his insatiable need to have the last word, is in danger of overwhelming at least selected posts, if not the entire blog.

Casey

Lars has behaved reasonably well in the last few threads, at least from my point of view.

I think some of priorities and conclusions are silly, but that’s not trolling. I know one blog which can be considered conservative which enjoys (to misuse the word) two idiots capable of nothing more than parroting the latest progressive cant. They appear to be genuinely incapable of any original thoughts or ideas.

To tell a little secret I’ve descended to gratuitous insult over there, as they’re not worth any real effort.

Joe Williams

Lars,I do not read that wall of”listen to me I know what is right for you” verbose. Please answer in more compact and factual texts. Joe

2/17 Air Cav

“Just a bunch of Anecdotes of a few of America’s 318 million people…” That’s Taylor being dismissive of the value of anecdotes. “Anecdotes matter….” Same guy but this time anecdotes serve a purpose he likes. Contradictory? Of course not. He will have a very good 3,000 word explanation soon enough.

L. Taylor

you misunderstood what a wrote. I essentially said anecdotes matter for people but it is the large numbers that matter for policy.

Green Thumb

You should probably cut back on your happy hour time then….

Thunderstixx

I gave up reading right after I made the comment up there a ways…
Lardass is a prime example of the people that inhabit Madison WI and got their asses kicked thoroughly 3 times in 4 years by Scott Walker !!!
In case anyone hadn’t noticed, Walker just signed the “Right to Work” law for Wisconsin, proving once more that he really knows how to stick it up the ass of morons like lardass here !!!
Plus, Walker rides a Harley and has ridden for several decades now !!!
Gotta love them bikers !!!
Not all, just some of us !!!

Ex-PH2

I think it’s interesting that he won’t back up anything he says, but rattles on as if whatever he says is SO important, we just have to accept it. He’s a worse attention whore than Splinky was.

L. Taylor

When asked I provide the source or evidence.

Ex-PH2

I saw the announcement about the Right to Work law on the news last week. It really pissed off the unions. They have long since outlived their usefulness. Now if only that could be more widespread….

L. Taylor

It is was not my ass on the line in Wisconsin.

It was Wisconsin workers. So it sounds like it is your ass he stuck it up. And you seem to enjoying it. I guess you are into bikers.

Notice the percentage of income going to the top ten percent as union membership declined. Companies shifted worker wages to executive compensation and shareholder dividends as unions lost membership.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/09/02/1326532/-While-union-membership-declines-those-at-the-top-are-making-out-like-bandits

Oh, and the middle class collapsed. Correlate the dates to the previous chart.

http://tcf.org/work/workers_economic_inequality/detail/graph-of-the-day-census-report-shows-middle-class-decline-in-2011

Oh, and here is something from the “liberal” bastion the International Monetary Fund (because we know how hippie those bankers are). That explains just how CEO compensation climbs as union membership falls.

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/fandd/2015/03/jaumotte.htm

Ouch. Guess they should have called it the “Right to Exploit” rather than the “Right to work.”

Seriously, how stupid can you be? Do you really think you all by your lonesome has equal negotiating power to a corporation in setting your wage?

These oligopolies control entire industries and without collective bargaining those corporations can set exploitive wages tiers for all levels and if you do not like it tough shit, their competitor uses the same wage tiers.

Unless of course your are a senior executive because those guys are about to fleece the Wisconsin labor force. Big Party in Wisconsin tonight. But you are not invited. It is for Walker and all his big dollar campaign donors, because they are about to make a killing by transferring Wisconsin workers’ wages to their own executive salaries.

I just feel bad for the smart ones. The ones that know better that to support a sociopath like walker. They got screwed because they were outnumbered by stupid.

L. Taylor

Really, you truly you have to love this chart.
http://s1.epi.org/m/?src=http://www.epi.org/files/2012/snapshot-unionmembership.png&w=608

Notice how the income of the top 10% plummets as union membership skyrockets in the 1930s.

Then wages of the top 10% starts steadily climbing as union membership steadily falls after the late 1950s.

I am sure it is just a complete coincidence. Just a “fluke” 90 year correlation.

I am sure without collective bargaining international corporation in Wisconsin will not touch Worker’s wages. They will just give them all the same levels of compensation they would have if there still was collective bargaining. All out of the compassion and generosity in their hearts.

GDContractor

Get back to me when you have taken intro to statistical analysis. Correlation not equal to causation. Nice website epi.org. Do they adjust, um I mean “correct”, climate data to pay the bills? I hear it is lucrative.

L. Taylor

Just to be clear. When I called Scott Walker a sociopath it was not hyperbole. I truly meant it. And it is no secret. I guarantee he knows and has probably been diagnosed in the past. This is not an anti-republican rant. There are truly good people in the republican party. However, sociopaths make up a higher percentage of politicians than found in the general populations and a sociopath’s value system makes them more likely to be part of right wing parties because the political emphasis in individual self interest.

Admittedly, everything I found discussing the belief that Walker is a sociopath comes from progressive sites. Conservative sites are simply unlikely to call one of their own a sociopath even if they are a sociopath.

That being said, there are a large number of prominent republicans, most are not sociopaths, and while we can expect several sociopaths in a profession that attracts sociopaths, Scott Walker is one of the most transparently obvious sociopaths in politics right now.

http://democurmudgeon.blogspot.com/2011/03/change-sociopathic-mind-of-gov-scott.html
https://verdict.justia.com/2012/04/06/good-luck-wisconsin-youve-got-a-classic-authoritarian-governor

http://hungryguymadison.blogspot.com/2011/12/apas-psychopath-checklist-applied-to.html

http://www.wisconsingazette.com/opinion/critics-blast-scott-walkers-tell-all-book-as-tell-nothing-bid-to-position-himself-as-presidential.html

http://voicesnewspaper.blogspot.com/2012/05/scott-walker-is-sociopathic-liar-but.html

2/17 Air Cav

So, Scott Walker is a sociopath? What a scream. And Taylor has provided his authorities for that conclusion. Just for yucks, I looked at them, in no particular order, and here’s my take:

First up is a fellow who calls himself Hungry Guy. He could use a good editor: WORD can only do so much but I fear he doesn’t even avail himself of that tool. Speaking of tools, Hungry Guy claims no degree at all, let alone one in psychology or psychiatry, but he does offer that “I did however work in conjunction with professionals in those fields in producing this post.” Yeah, I have no idea either.

Next up is something called Voices Newspaper Blogspot. Its lead calls Walker a sociopathic liar and invites readers to use provided links to conclude that Walker is a sociopathic liar. I think that blogger is hearing voices indeed, for what he or she did was substitute the word sociopathic for pathological. The two words are not synonymous and, as you might guess, the blogger is just a repeater for DU-type drivel and claims no degree in psychology or psychiatry.

Okay, one more and I’m done—because I can’t take any more of that mindless poison. The last one doesn’t label Walker a sociopath at all but, instead, calls him on claims and omissions that appeared (or didn’t) in his book. It is a hit piece on Walker and nothing more. However, I did find what must be Taylor’s authority. It is found in one of the comments that follow the article, penned by someone called Citizen Victory: “Walker’s an addlepated sociopath and a pathological liar. It would be great to see him roasted on national television as he tries to continue to spread his b.s. about how he’s ‘”fixed”’ Wisconsin.”

Taylor: I wouldn’t have thought it possible but your credibility just dropped to a new low.

L. Taylor

I do not draw my conclusions based on these readings. I drew them from his actions. Then when I posted here I decided to check to see what commentary existed.

He is. It is transparently obvious.

I do not care if you accept it or not. When he runs for president it will be obvious and he will get disgraced. He is too obvious.

I am serious when I say that. He is absolutely a sociopath.

The Other Whitey

You know what is really transparently obvious, Lars? That you’re giant douche who thinks he knows everything and is better than anybody who disagrees with you. Does anybody besides Lars disagree?

L. Taylor

“Does anybody besides Lars disagree?”

Your attempt to appeal to mob sentiment to bolster your opinion is indicative of severe insecurity. I am sure many think I am a douche, but what difference does it make if others agree with you?

Your intent is to make me feel like an unwelcome out-group member and gain the support of the group against me. Calling for others to rally to your opinion is something your tribal mind finds safe and empowering.

Ex-PH2

Attempt to appeal to mob sentiment?

Has it even dawned on that dormant organ you have for a brain that you are so thoroughly obnoxious no one can stand you, lardass?

This is why you get the label ‘asshole’.

GDContractor

Just think of it as consensus Lars. Don’t be a denier.

The Other Whitey

I simply asked an honest question, Larsy. You read a lot of crap into it. As Freud said, “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.”

Then again, could it be that you’re projecting your own insecurities on others? I don’t know, I’m not a shrink. It would explain a lot, however.

The Other Whitey

By the way, Lars, thank you for proving my point for me.

Ex-PH2

Left you guys some reading material, TOW.

Sorry I took up so much space, but I had to include a lot of REAL references and REAL resources.

Ex-PH2

Of course not, TOW. He’s provided us with more than enough evidence regarding that aspect of his personality. The reason those bloggers don’t like Scott Walker is that the Wisconsin legislature passed the right-to-work legislation. Here’s the gist of that dispute. The right-to-work law prevents unions from forcing people to pay dues and join them in order to get a job. This means that they do not have to pay union dues. Forcing people to join unions in order to work is extortion. http://www.usatoday.com/story/theoval/2015/03/10/obama-scott-walker-union-dues-wisconsin-2016-republican-race/24689359/ http://siouxcityjournal.com/news/national/govt-and-politics/walker-fires-back-following-obama-criticism-of-right-to-work/article_a574d9c5-ffdb-545b-96c3-ac37b5274abd.html As most of us are aware, the AFL-CIO, Teamsters, and UAW not only drove legitimate businesses out of business in this country and sent them overseas to Malaysia, Indonesia, Taiwan, China, Korea, etc., they also drove the U.S. steel industry and US auto production into the ground. Whereas Detroit was once the capital of the automotive industry, we all know now that it is almost a ghost town, which is entirely the doing of demands by those unions. Fair wages and benefits in return for labor are acceptable, but when an assembly line worker makes 4.5 times the hourly wage of a university department head – my father – there is something wrong. Inland Steel was a thriving steel mill in Gary, IN. When the unions drove it into bankruptcy, they destroyed the entire industry in that town. Gary is almost a ghost town now. When the steelworkers at that planet lost their jobs, the unions not only left like the thieves in the night that they are, they took the employees’ pensions and retirements benefits with them. No one who worked at Inland Steel ever got a cent from the unions. The state of Illinois has come under scrutiny and backlash for paying pensions over $100,000/yr to people who never earned salaries with those figures, but were members of that idiotic office worker union. That’s going to come to an end real soon, because the state pension fund is $8 billion in the hole, thanks to the two unions (teachers’ union and office workers union) that got excessive pensions paid out to these people.… Read more »

Ex-PH2

And lest we forget, Jimmy Hoffa disappeared because he made the mistake of getting mixed up with organized crime.

He paid for it with his life.

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1985-11-04/news/8503150505_1_teamsters-leader-organized-crime-union-boss-jimmy-hoffa

He was not the only union boss who was murdered.

The mob has a long, long history of connection to labor unions.

http://www.oig.dol.gov/public/reports/laborracpaper.pdf

The only thing labor unions are interested in is money. Period. Without dues money from members, they die.

And I do know what it’s like to be an employee at a company with 5 union members (no one else would join) and be called a scab when I went to work. I also know what it’s like to find that the company is going under because of union influence. I have personal, firsthand experience with that.

Ex-PH2

Here’s the OIG’s report on union racketeering and organized crime.

http://www.laborers.org/Commission_IBT.html

Here’s a little something from the DoJ on infiltrated labor unions.

http://www.justice.gov/criminal/ocgs/org-crime/labor-unions.html

Ex-PH2

This link is about the 1969 murder of Jock Yablonski by hit men hired by Tony Boyle, the UMW boss.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/justice-story/union-boss-kills-rival-coal-blood-article-1.1234034

And the most recent crapazoid episode of a union killing a company was the 2012 demise of the company that made Twinkies.

http://www.redstate.com/2012/11/17/as-union-bosses-spin-twinkies-demise-bakers-union-boss-admits-union-knew-hostess-would-die/

Hostess: because freshness never tasted so good!

Does anyone have any questions about right to work laws?

L. Taylor

I am not going to waste much time responding to the organized crime nonsense (and the Hoffa reference is laughable). Organized crime has at various times been connected to nearly every industry and institution that has ever existed in the US, from banks to breweries, to politicians, and police, even churches. And mob influence on unions is weaker than ever in history. International corporations have connections to crime organizations around the world and I don’t see you guys claiming it as evidence that we should end corporations. In every low skilled or blue collar industry in the country firms have far more negotiating power in setting wages than individuals. THat is an empirical fact proven in countless studies of employee-employer wage negotiations. Since the entire moral foundation of a free market is premised on power parity between buyer and seller the US government came to support union rights because it recognized that unions help balance against the overwhelming power of firms in negotiations when a laborer sells his labor to a firms. This is especially true since even competing firms were caught repeatedly colluding on wages to keep laborers from using competition for labor to increase their wages. So firms were essentially breaking the price mechanism for labor. And collective bargaining balanced against the overwhelming power of firms in wage negotiations. That is why unions were needed, and still are in many industries. I personally do not care what Wisconsin or any state does. Since workers previously unionized or currently unionized industries are conservatives if they want to break unions and destroy their own livelihoods and undermine the American middle class because they are mindlessly following GoP rhetoric that is on them. I think they are idiots for doing so. Especially when they moronically celebrate their own destruction. However, I do take issue with people being too stupid to realize or accept that Scott Walker is a pathological liar. This is an absolute fact. The number of absolutely indisputable lies is overwhelming. He lies constantly. He is clearly a sociopath. So much so that it is impossible for him to… Read more »

GDContractor

Lars. Have you ever worked in a job that required you to be a member of a union? Simple question, yes or no will do.

When will unions assume their fair share of the responsibility for unions becoming unpopular? Mismanagement and corruption have a price.

Speaking of sociopaths and liars, how about that Clinton family huh? Have a cigar.

L. Taylor

Yes, when was a kid. Grocery stores where unionized back in the 80s. Yes, unions did help to undermine the credibility and support for unions in this country. However, accountability in unions is significantly better than ever, but membership is the lowest since they entered the marketplace. Despite this, the anti-union rhetoric is more pervasive than it has been since the late 19th and early 20th century. There has been a war against unions for 150 years, and firms have used every mechanism they could against unions since their inception – including federal troops. Business has not been trying to destroy unions out of concern for the public good. They do it for one reason only: to be able to pay workers a little as possible. While the claim is that it helps “create jobs” and the classical economic models support that claim, actually empirical studies on the actual economic effects (not the simplified models) show that higher wages create jobs in a region because they generate demand for goods and services. Sure the firm trying to pay workers less would hire a few more workers at the lower wage (often that is not the case though), but the loss of the handful of jobs in that firm is made up for in more jobs in the community created by more consumption and demand in the community. Ultimately it comes down to this: who should get more income? Workers or executives and major shareholders? Anecdotally, was also a cop, in an area where police were not unionized. Our salaries were abysmal. We had no pension or retirement options, And we had no health insurance. Most people would never imagine there were departments that did not offer police health insurance. This is despite the need for an 880 hour academy and state certification. Why, because it was a part of the state that had no almost no industry, unemployment was over 10%, and departments did not need many officers. So without collective bargaining there was not way to get a decent wage in the majority of communities. My experience is a… Read more »

L. Taylor

Yes, Clinton was probably a sociopath. In order to be successful sociopaths imitate the value system of those that are supporting and helping the sociopath achieve his/her goals. We were lucky that Clinton supporters were much more interested in public goods than Walker’s supporters. Clinton could have been devastating because he is a hell of a lot smarter and more competent that Walker.

A megalomaniac sociopath like walker with a “self interest” values platform of support is a dangerous combination.

Ex-PH2

Wow. Ol’ lardhead stayed up that late to write XXX no. of paragraphs that could have been compressed into a sentence? He did that instead of studying? Here’s my response to his attempts to – well, whatever; it’s too early: A – The hatred toward Walker is based on his not being recalled and subsequently, the right to work legislation. B – I have no dog in that fight as I do not live in Wisconsin. I merely CITED the news releases about the WI right to work legislation and also CITED examples of the damages that unions have done to the work force and to profit-based corporations. That hardly puts me in the position of defending Walker, especailly since I don’t care one way or the other about it. C – lardhead is demonstrabely wrong about a lot of things, and is using trigger terms like ‘mob rule’, here: http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=58649&cpage=1#comment-2490657 to blame others for his lack of popularity. He’s probably done this before and it didn’t work elsewhere, either. He doesn’t ‘get’ that he’s very good at making people dislike him personally. E – If he doesn’t like losing arguments, which he continues to do, he can start his own blog and control the conversation there, which he can’t do here, no matter how hard he tries. Anyone who was here not so long ago will remember Insipid, aka Splinky and some other nickname. Splink and lardass must be twins, separated at birth. Or maybe littermates. After all, cockroaches do lay a lot of eggs. lardbutt, you’re a self-centered, smug, crashing boor. You’re wrong about a lot of things. A priori (deduction) tells us that you’re going to be wrong about a lot more, since you just keep repeating the same behaviors. I suggest that you go start your own blog. You’ll be the center of your own universe, the king of the heap, the traffic controller. Geez, it’s too early for this. Not enough caffeine, and I have a truly bodacious set of chapters to finish. The nice part about it is that I know where the story… Read more »

GDContractor

Rockford is always a good thing.

Ex-PH2

I do miss those really good TV shows a lot.

L. Taylor

A – No I hate him because he is a megalomaniac, a sociopath, and an incompetent who will say or do absolutely anything to win, and he is trying to run for President
B – “I have no dog in that fight as I do not live in Wisconsin.” Ditto. Though the right to work laws are national trend. I will never be a low skilled or blue collar workers so it still does not directly matter to me other than the fact that I care for our country.

C – You not agreeing does not make me wrong. And I used the term “appeal to mob” which is the name of a kid of logical fallacy. A logical fallacy he used. So I used the name of the fallacy to tell him he was using it.

E – I do not expect to win arguments here. This group is largely deeply ideologically entrenched. And probably over 50 on average. Not exactly a group whose minds are likely to be changed because of some long winded forum posts. But do not assume every reader of this forums is like you. I have some evidence sent to my facebook account that at least some veteran’s reading my posts on here agree with me but just do not feel like arguing with this group. This group is not exactly warm and fuzzy to people with whom they disagree.

Pinto Nag

We don’t argue, we discuss. A different point of view here keeps this from becoming an echo chamber. Yes, we do expect you to explain your viewpoint.

And quit making us old farts sound like we’re ready for the glue factory, because we ain’t, you young whippersnapper!

2/17 Air Cav

Wow. So those cites were just for what, space filling? Or are they to establish that your conclusion regarding Walker is shared by other kooks who, in turn, cite to other kooks in one big circle jerk? Whatever. You lefties are famous for your attack strategy. Sometimes, I wish the conservatives were as ruthless.

L. Taylor

He is a sociopath.

It is transparent.

The sources were not to prove it. They do prove he is a compulsive liar which is a symptom of a sociopath. As well as several other clear symptoms of him being a sociopath.

And the idea that they are “liberal” sources and this they should not be considered is absurd. I read a ton of conservative sources. Conservatives are simply not going to discuss the fact that Walker is a sociopath. I am sure some a quite aware though.

I am also certain Walker knows he is.

Hondo

Interesting. I seem to remember another group or two that often used the tactic of labeling those with whom they disagreed politically as “mentally ill” in an attempt to demonize and/or silence them. When they attained power, they followed up by actually incarcerating some of those individuals in so-called “mental institutions”.

It seems that at least the former practice is still in use among some in the Bay Area.

Ex-PH2

Yes, in North Korea, the government makes those people dig their own graves before they are executed.

L. Taylor

Clinton was a sociopath too.

This is not about labeling people I disagree with as mentally ill.

And how many times have I been derisively referred to as having mental issues on this forum?

L. Taylor

Also, being a sociopath is not grounds to be institutionalized in pretty much any industrialized democracy. There is a lot of high functioning sociopaths in society.

But they are particularly concentrated among business executives, lawyers (especially and shockingly prosecutors), politicians, military officers, law enforcement, surgeons, and members of the clergy.

Some sociopaths are particularly dangerous. Walker is dangerous. Supporting him is stupid.

Hondo

So, I guess that means you’re OK with labeling those with with whom you disagree politically as being mentally disturbed, so long as it’s a condition that doesn’t risk institutionalization. That in turn means you must be OK with conservatives labeling those favoring big government as “libidiots” – because being monumentally stupid doesn’t generally risk institutionalization – or you must be a hypocrite. Which is it?

And please – spare us the specious argument that “I’ve proven the man is a sociopath.” Unless (1) you’re a mental health professional and (2) the man has seen you in your professional capacity, that is nothing but an unsupported assertion and personal opinion. It is not a professional opinion or statement of fact.

And if you are a mental health professional (which I very strongly doubt) who the man has seen professionally . . . buddy, you just committed a major violation of professional ethics. So, which is it – are you hugely unethical, or are you just spouting unsupported personal opinion about someone you dislike and claiming it to be fact?

Ex-PH2

Hondo, is there any way to avoid referring to lardass as Splinky or Skippy now?

He closely resembles the street shouters I used to see on street corners when I lived in Chicago.

On the other hand, if he’s so afraid of Scott Walker, as he clearly indicates, perhaps some counseling by a certified professional is something he should consider.

I said he shoudl start hiw own blog. I found mine to be extremely useful, and I’m slowly gaining an audience. But then, I don’t write about politics because I don’t write political thrillers.

MrBill

Any bets on how long it takes him to respond? Because, you know, he’s smarter than you, he knows more than you, and he absolutely MUST have the last word.

nbcguy54ACTUAL

Apparently there are more than just 6 snot-nosed kids out there that feel that displaying an American flag on/in an American institution of higher learning is just wrong…

http://campusreform.org/?ID=6349

Ex-PH2

Not only that, someone went to Harvard and tried to get donations for ISIS, according to this report.

http://campusreform.org/?ID=6341

nbcguy54ACTUAL

I was a bit surprised that cpt Lard hadn’t signed the letter yet…