John Bolton Out as National Security Advisor

| September 10, 2019

John Bolton. (White House Website)

John Bolton submitted his resignation as National Security Advisor. The linked articles talk about different accounts surrounding the resignation. One common theme that comes up is that John Bolton had recommendations that President Trump strongly disagreed with.

It appeared that when it came to Afghanistan, things fell with regards to Bolton and Trump. One claim mentioned their disagreement about the planned meeting with the Taliban at Camp David in order to aid in coming closer to an agreement… Especially close to the anniversary of the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.

From NBC News:

Bolton had pushed Trump to take a harder line on other regimes he has deemed untrustworthy. Trump, on the other hand, campaigned on the promise to get the U.S. out of conflicts.

While Bolton has previously pushed for striking Iran and regime change, Trump has indicated he would like to sit down with Iranian officials, and that regime change is off the table.

When asked in the past about his divergent views with Bolton’s, Trump has indicated he didn’t have a problem with his national security adviser giving an opinion that differed from his own.

“I have some hawks,” the president said in a Meet the Press interview earlier this summer. “Yeah, John Bolton is absolutely a hawk. If it was up to him he’d take on the whole world at one time, okay? But that doesn’t matter, because I want both sides.”

This was bound to happen. President Trump has a different approach to dealing with other countries. The “weapon of choice” is economic combined with political. John Bolton was seen as a “war hawk”.

You could read more on NBC News and CNN.

Category: Politics

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GDContractor

That’s the great thing about Trump! He doesn’t have to be smart. He will hire the smartest people & surround himself with them!
[end sarc]

Club Manager, USA ret.

Bolton was knowledgeable but also a smug super hawk. The way it works is when POTUS says I think we should do it this way, any objection? Then you say, well sir, perhaps trying this may resolve the issue. The Commander responds, thank you for your input, let’s do it this way… You then either salute smartly and support the Commander or resign. Bolton was trying the back door media leak approach to support his turned down positions. I understand his exit safety briefing reminded him to take care and not let the door hit him in the butt on the way out.

reddevil

I know, I know, our president is a super genius and is playing four dimensional chess while the rest of his staff, especially Bolton, is playing checkers. In reality, though, no one person can really hope to develop sound and comprehensive strategies to pull it all together without a lot of expert help. That’s why we have the National Security Council and National Security Advisor. The NSC is supposed to provide options to the President, refine them according to his guidance, and then plan and execute as necessary. They also have an obligation, legally and ethically to provide their best advice. This is easy when they are generally in alignment with POTUS’s views. It is essentially impossible to do when they disagree. The President can obviously come up with his own plans, but the NSC system is designed to pull the best advice from the NSC. It’s a very small group- Sec State, SecDef, the VP, and Sec Treasury. They have to work closely together. The fundamental issue here is that once again Trump hired a key advisor that is 180 out from his own views- although to be fair it is really hard to know what Trump’s views are because he changes them all the time. Bolton was not only extremely aggressive, but he was/is personally an @$$. He was an @$$ before this job, he was an @$$ in this job, and he’ll be an @$$ in the future. He grated on the other members of the NSC,… Read more »

11B-Mailclerk

“Chaos” can be a method. Keeping everyone off-balance facilitates change, especially when the local group culture opposes it. That is the key here. “The Swamp” doesn’t like change, and doesn’t want reform. “Go along to get along.” ” Don’t make waves, the wrong way.” Very few people get to DC other than as Swamp critters. Trump has this really odd idea that he was elected to do Trump’s thing, as Trump, for the benefit of the Electorate, and not be Swamp gardener v45. Ace of Spades has some interesting commentary on Bolton this morning. http://ace.mu.nu (A good site. Some NSFW links, tagged) Seems he leaked to oppose things he could not persuade. The classic DC way. Leak to oppose. Allow no change to the (money machine) status quo. Grind down anyone who threatens the Swamp. No wonder Trump keeps everyone off balance. The whole thing is re-written to self-perpetuate dysfunction and fiefdom-growth. Note how past “reformer” Presidents get captured by the system. Trump has largely avoided that. This may explain why he is also thriving in a job that tends to grind down occupants. He -enjoys- the fight. And he plays to win. He is persuading life-long Donks to reject “the Party” that abandoned -them-. He is persuading life-long Republicans to see how their party had also been a disappointment. Winning. Note: if Obama and crew had not shit all over him, he probably would have run as a Democrat, a Kennedy-style one. And won. The Donk party -cannot- tolerate… Read more »

Reddevil

People believe what they want to believe.

This is not about reform or draining the swamp. Your position makes no sense. Trump put Bolton in the swamp in the first place.

Trump hired Bolton specifically because of Bolton’s well known, highly publicized views.

If you think Bolton wanted talks with the Taliban you haven’t been paying attention .

I thought Bolton was a horrible choice, and I’m glad he’s gone. Trump obviously has the authority to fire him. Not an issue.

But to claim this is some sort of Trumpiavellian power play is just ridiculous. The only people off balance iare the NSC and the American government. Trump invited the Taliban to Camp David, not the other way around, as part of an inconsistent, sophomoric, bumbling foreign policy.

MI Ranger

I agree with 11B-Mailclerk. Trump is playing his game, and playing it well. He hired Bolton because he does not like sycophants, and enjoys a difference of opinion. However Bolton was not willing to accept he wasn’t always going to get his way. It would completely be within Bolton’s play list to leak opposing views to derail something he opposed. Whether he did it or not is the President’s opinion!

A Proud Infidel®™

“I agree with 11B-Mailclerk. Trump is playing his game, and playing it well. He hired Bolton because he does not like sycophants, and enjoys a difference of opinion.”

Well said and I concur.

reddevil

So, why did he fire him? Bolton was a living, breathing difference of opinion. In fact, that is the reason Trump cited for firing his last two NSAs.

On top of that, Trump is on record as LOVING sycophants: https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/06/donald-trump-cabinet-meeting

You guys gotta do better than that. Say it with me: “I respect the President and I like some of Trump’s policies but sometimes he does stupid things because he doesn’t think them through.”

You’ll feel better, trust me

11B-Mailclerk

Trump fired him because Bolton forgot who hired him.

There is a bunch of that, in politics.

Trump is pretty consistent. Get out of your lane often enough, and you are gone.

Most commanders I have known would accept contrary opinion, but expected a willingness to obey orders nevertheless. Disloyalty, passive-aggressive plays, and sabotage were … not accepted.

Trump seems to have this weird idea that the country elected Trump, and expect of him to be Trump, to do Trump in the Trump way.

Weird, eh?

The staff don’t call the shots, and are expected to play the Trump tune, or resign. I think he is the sort to make that rather clear, up front. What amazes me is how many folks seem to think “but not -me-“.

A foolish conceit. And all to common in DC.

You don’t like his ways. Fine. The electorate did, and likely will again in 2020. Got anyone better who can actually win elections?

Because I am tired of principled defeat as the best game plan the Repubs, and thus handing the game to the apsehit-moonbat/gangster-corruptocrat alliance of the Donks.

At least with Trump we still have a USA that approximates a Constitutional Republic based on the 1787 plan as amended. The opposition? Look real hard.

Reddevil

The NSAs lane is to develop recommendations for national security. Trump hired a guy that he should have known had views 180 out from his.

The NSA has no authority, zero, to direct the actions of any instruments of national power. Is is simply an advisor to the president.

Got it, you love Trump. Does that render you incapable of seeing when he is wrong?

11B-Mailclerk

I don’t like Trump.

I like some of what is app opening, that RINOs promised and never delivered.

SCOTUS.
Federal court changes.
Economy actually working for most folks, especially the bottom rungs.
Someone at the Resolute Desk that actually loves the USA.

Sure, I would do things different. I also couldn’t get elected president. He did,and he is undoing some core cancers. He may yet cause China to address its major fault-lines. Those are not EU flags the Hong Kong Yan are waving.

I will live with this oddities. But his admin style works (it is deliberate and purposeful, and working) and he is distracting his opponents much as the Bullfighter does. Or any decent stage magician. And he saved the nation from Clinton. He is also likely to stave off the moonbat/corruptocrat alliance for another 4 years.

I am grateful for those.

GDContractor

““Chaos” can be a method. Keeping everyone off-balance facilitates change…”

Yes. It is universally a method which results in the shareholders voting for a change in leadership at the top.

What change? Accelerated borrowing and accumulated debt? Stating that the Donald would have probably run as a Democrat is a weird way to bolster your argument.

He’s had three years to disentangle us and bring everybody home. We have nothing to offer the Taliban, except to promise them that we will leave. Leaving does not require talks, it requires action. The Taliban knows that we will leave eventually. In the meantime, they are content to create Martyrs and steal from us with each passing day.

GDContractor

Hey. Speaking of Trump firing people…did General Mattis write a letter last week or something?

5th/77th FA

Prerogatives of command? Most Bosses feel that co-operation is doing things their way and being damn quick and efficient about it. Not sure if dTrumpster has gone thru more staff than any other POTUS or not, but they all knew the job was dangerous when they took it. If Bolton was a war mongering Hawk and The Donald wants to disentangle us from the constant warfare of the last 18 years this is a good thing.

From the articles linked I saw where Mitt Romney (ESAD mofo) thought it was a bad move. That in itself would make me think that it was a GOOD move. Romney (spit), a career politician going to bat for a career gubmint trough slurper. Who’d a thunk. IMO, the biggest problems this country faces is the career politician and gubmit appointees. YMMV

Devtun

Pres Reagan went through the most NSA’s – six in eight yrs. Prez Trump is on pace.

reddevil

Yeah, but…

While Reagan didn’t fire his NSAs, he did have quite a few resign under pressure due to a variety of investigations. Not sure which is worse- a disorganized, chaotic White House, or a White House full of officials under investigations.

Helpful Medal

He’s on pace for twelve if he serves eight years. And Iran-Contra was a reason for Reagan’s turnover.

reddevil

Mattis is in the press because he released his book last week, and it is thin on details about his departure from DoD. Some were hoping for some sort of insider info on his resignation. It did contain a reprint of his resignation letter, but that was about it. Mattis is a class act. Bolton is not. I never liked the guy as Ambassador to the UN, and I didn’t like him as National Security Advisor, That said, he was definitely a consistent believer in hard power and a practitioner of realpolitik. While I think that in the modern world a more liberal (as in the school thinking in International Relations, not American politics) approach would be better because of all of the economic and cultural ties with both competitors and allies, there is something to be said for consistency. The president, on the other hand, can’t seem to pick a strategy, though. I have to disagree with BigSig on this one- our strategy should definitely include all four elements of national power (the Big DIME, Diplomacy, Information, Military, and Economy), but President Trump does is not consistent in his approach. Pompeo enables this, by the way, and he would be disastrous as NSA. One week he is threatening Kim Jung Un, then sending him love letter. A few months later he is scheduling peace talks with the the Taliban then cancelling them abruptly. Yes, he started the ‘trade war’ with China and cancelled trade agreements, but it was ham… Read more »

GDContractor

Advance copy of the next Trump speech:

“[…] but I have a guy…and he’s gonna fix this shit…and his name’s Not Sure….”

11B-Mailclerk

Oddly, the rest of the world does not seem to be acting as if they see Trump as “weak” or “ineffective”.

Obama got that sort of thing. Quite a bit.

They test and try Trump, as they will anyone. But they are certainly not acting as if they see him as ” weak”.

Reddevil

How many missiles has DPRK fired this year? https://time.com/5673813/north-korea-confirms-second-rocket-launcher-test/

How far beyond the previously agreed to levels has Iran taken their nuke program? https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2019/09/08/irans-nuclear-program-takes-another-step-away-from-accord-as-atomic-deal-unravels/

How many Taliban attacks leading up to the Trump peace talks?

How are you measuring weak or innefective,?

MI Ranger

RedDevil, the key to understanding if you are effective is not to look at the statistics before you implemented a policy, but the change after you implemented one!
Let’s see if the Taliban were serious about negotiation: Will they have an armistice to get back tot he table, or fight us every inch until we withdrawal?
As for little Kim he has tested several missiles, but have any of them been of the type that he said he would not test? (I give you a hint, the answer only has two letters!)
President Trump understand that to win he has to appease people, but at the same time realize that crossing him has no chance of success (Obama did the opposite…look at Libya). I would not be surprised if Trump is able to sit down with the Iranians within his term(s). Korea really wants to step into the 20th century (if not the 21st), but Kim above all else wants to remain leader, just like the Iranian primary goal is survival of the Regime…all else is long game!

Reddevil

You are correct. Time will tell. Maybe Trump’s policies will play out, given time for them to play out.

But what we are talking about here is how Trump is all over the map, and while no one is sad to see Bolton go, we WERE sad (and more than a little confused) to see him hired in the first place. This is not 4-D chess.

As far as what our policy should be, a realist would say that US policy for the last several decades has taught the North Korean, Syrian, and Iranian regimes to do exactly what they are doing.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/05/30/the-world-wants-you-to-think-like-a-realist/

Although I am a believer in the ability of the liberal* international order to not only prevent war but promote prosperity, I’m all for a consistent realist foreign policy. A CONSISTENT realist foreign policy. Not a made it up as you go along ‘principled realism, America First’ foreign policy that is based more on overreactions to perceived personal slights.

*Liberal as in Liberal IR theory, meaning ‘free markets’, not liberal as in American political discourse. Thought I should add that, although being at the end of the post I doubt anyone will read it.

USMC Steve

We get it reddevil, you are a never Trumper. Got anything else?

Reddevil

I’m not a never Trumper. I think he is the legit President of the United States. I agree with many if not most of his policies.

But when he does something bad I’m going to say so, and I’ll respond to every nonsensical post that tries to pretend it didn’t happen.

If you don’t like it, just turn up the volume on Fox and Friends- maybe Trump will call or tweet in.

Slow Joe

Red Devil, you mentioned sharpie-gate, which is proven fake news. This tells me all I need to know about you, and the kinds of news sources that you swallow.

NeverTrumper Alert!!!

11B-Mailclerk

He is more rational than that.

He overlooks the changes in the courts. The change in the 9th is of particular note. Also, two solid SCOTUS picks, and he may get a third. Those are lasting improvements.

reddevil

Joe, I am not sure if you are trying to classify me for further study, insult me, or warn the others so they can escape. I don’t know what a NeverTrumper is- if it is short for Never let Trump get away his BS I guess it fits. I think Trump is the legitimate president of the United States and I agree with most of his policies. I also think that his daily actions contribute from all of the above. I do not believe that he is playing a deep game, four steps ahead of the rest of the world to keep our enemies guessing. Does that make others AlwaysTrumpers? Always accept everything Trump says no matter what? But, as far as SharpieGate, I’m not sure what you mean by fake news. Someone clearly modified the map. Was it a Sharpie? I think is was. I don’t think thats the point. Is your point that the president didn’t do it? I don’t think that’s the problem either. I neither know nor care who did it. What’s revealing about it is that either Trump modified or directed one of his staffers to modify the best estimate of the National Weather Service, or everyone on the staff was so intimidated that they modified the estimate. Either way, not an ideal state of affairs. On top of that, rather than issue the classic ‘what the President meant to say’ kind of statement, he has to try to convince us that a) No one… Read more »

Comm Center Rat

Good riddance to this chickenshit Chickenhawk.

“I confess I had no desire to die in a Southeast Asian rice paddy… I considered the war in Vietnam already lost.” John Bolton, 1995

I considered the war in AFG lost a decade ago, but I still went to see for myself that it was mostly a useless waste of blood and treasure. I don’t think we’re the “mentors” the Afghani military and police really want hanging around for another 18 years. Asymmetrical warfare will never destroy the ideology preached by the Taliban. If the nine major tribes in AFG decide they want the Taliban gone I’m sure they can find a way with some other allies to git ‘r done.

USMCMSgt(Ret)

Precisely. Afghanis need to care more about their own future and find a way to rid themselves of the Taliban. I’m not sure what allies they have left, but they need to get it done one way or another.

Ex-PH2

Yeah, okay, if you will all recall the history of the US being in Afghanistan, we weren’t there until AFTER 9/11/01, because the Taliban controlled 3/4 of that country and the Afghans wanted them out. THEY let them in to push the Soviets out of that pisshole country, in a war of acquisition which literally bankrupted the Soviet Union and put it out of business, and when THAT was over, the Taliban wouldn’t leave. I did an article on this last year. But WE went in at the request of the Afghans to drive the Taliban out of Afghanistan, and succeeded, and yet, once we left, they returned in the blink of an eye. All of that history figure into what is going on now, and dTrump does not, if I read him right, want an endless and pointless fight. It’s either kick ass and win, or pack up and go. If China wants to get into an endless war with the Taliban, which would not surprise me at all, let them. They are after control of the entire area generally known as Southwest Asia, and they have enough people to expend on it, so they don’t give a flying fart in space how many lives they expend on it. They only want the minerals and raw materials available in that place, and they’ll do whatever is necessary to get them. It’s callous, but it’s also pragmatic. They just don’t give a shit what it costs. Being a warmonger, Bolton… Read more »

The Stranger

With regards to China, I would agree. They would go scorched earth in a Shanghai minute. I say, let ‘em. Don’t get involved and don’t send aid to any so-called “freedom fighters”. Let them both bleed; the Chinese would make what we gave them and what the Russians gave them look like love taps. Not that they’re better militarily, they just don’t have the same perspective on collateral damages or their own casualties.

GDContractor

“Being a warmonger, Bolton doesn’t see eye-to-eye with Pres. Trump…”

Gee. You’d think that would have come out in the job interview…or maybe during some cursory pre-employment interview. But I don’t know. I’m no business genius.

GDContractor

Sorry, that should be “pre-employment research”.

reddevil

Three points:

1). Why the hell did Trump hire Bolton in the first place? The guy’s stance was almost as well known as his mustache. Bolton did understand Trump. Trump didn’t understand Bolton.

2). A coalition of mujahideen groups defeated the Soviets, not the Taliban. When the Soviets left, these groups almost immediately got into a civil war, and the Taliban exploited this opportunity to attack and take control most of the country by 2001. T’The Afghans’ never invited us in to take out the Taliban but the last viable group of warlords (the Northern Alliance) was more than happy to accept our help.

3). China won’t get into an endless war with Afghanistan. They’ll go in with soft power under their Belt and Road initiative, improve the infrastructure, and make some money while establishing economic ties and simultaneously edging the US out of the region. Now, maybe the Taliban or other insurgent groups will want a little piece of that action, but China will probably just pay them off.

reddevil

add:
You are confusing the Taliban with Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda was a foreign, Arab group founded by UBL and Zarwahiri to bring foreign fighters in to Afghanistan to fight the Soviets. This is where a lot of the Arab, African, and Eastern European fighters learned their trade.

The Taliban is a home grown movement. The Afghans didn’t ‘let them in’, the Taliban was born there.

They were students in the Wahhabism madrassas set up in the refugee camps. They get their name from the Arab word ‘Talib’, for student (after one of Muhommeds followers). They are a Sunni Muslim fundamentalist organization, whereas most of the mujahideen, while muslim, were held together by tribal affiliation. The Taliban, being mostly orphans of the war, didn’t have the same tribal pull.

Now, after the civil war, when the Taliban controlled most of the country, they were protective of their pals Al Qaeda, partly out of Pashtunwali (the ancient code of honor among the Pashtu), but also because their old pals Al Qaeda funded the Wahhabist Madrassas that gave them their start.

Go read ‘Charley Wilson’s War’ or ‘The Taliban’.

GDContractor

Coincidentally, yesterday was Massoud Day.

Tony180A

Let the Martyrs week activities begin.

MI Ranger

RedDevil,
The Taliban are not a home grown movement. They were organized and trained by the Pakistani ISI, in order to destabilize Afghanistan in order to keep it under control or at least not beholden to any formal government.
Yes Talib means student, and it is from the Pashtun side in the Norther Tribal areas of Pakistan where they started their movement.

reddevil

Of course they are home grown. Yes, the ISI supported them and steered them early on, but their origins are Afghan, not, as PH implies above, foreign fighters.

The fact that they are Afghan is sort of the point, after all. The ISI wanted an Afghan force they could manipulate, and the Afghan people (at least initially) wanted an Afghan liberator.

MI Ranger

RedDevil,
They are foreign fighters. THey come from the Pakistani Federated Tribal Area which is South of the Afghan border, at best they are cousins of the Pashtun Afghanis living in the South East. They do not represent the amalgamation that is Afghanistan and always has been. They are Pashtuns that want to cleanse the Dari and Hazar part of Afghanistan

GDContractor

You know, I heard a lot from local Afghans that the Taliban were just foreigners that hijacked their country. I was at a COP on Rt Ohio a few miles from the western entrance to the Tangi Valley. I asked the guy telling me about “foreigners” if the Tangi Valley was full of Pakistanis. At that point, he shut up about foreigners.
YMMV

reddevil

No, they are not.

As I’m sure you know, Pashtuns are the dominant ethnic group in Afghanistan, and the one group most commonly associated by themselves and the rest of the world as ‘Afghan’, if that is a thing.

You seem to be conflating the Afghan Taliban with the Pakistani Taliban and/or confusing the two. They are two different groups. The group that took over most of Afghanistan in the ’90s and is causing most of the trouble there today is the Afghan Taliban, born in the FATA, created from Afghan refugees, led by Mullah Omar. They then shielded UBL, and they are the guys President Trump wanted to have peace talks with.

http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/347009

When we say ‘foreign fighters’ we generally refer to fighters being imported from other parts of the world- as an example, Al Qaeda was originally formed to bring Arabs to fight in Afghanistan. Al Qaeda in Iraq, now ISIS, was born to bring foreign fighters from all over the Muslim world to fight in Iraq.

reddevil

BY the way, back to the original point I was making to PH, the ‘Afghans’ did not ‘invite’ them in to save them from the Soviets…

11B-Mailclerk

Something missed: -why- are the Taliban so successful in Afghanistan?

Opposition to Bacha Bazi offers a clue.

The Taliban oppose it. All other local players either practice it, or turn a blind eye.

-that- is one hell of a recruiting tool.

By turning a blind eye to that evil, courtesy of the “go along to get along” folks, we missed a golden opportunity to steal that point away from the opposition.

We also have thusly chewed up and spat out good folks who rightly did oppose it.

GDContractor

Geez. Next you’ll be advocating an end to man love Thursday. And then I suppose it will be women should not cover their faces, girls should go to school, and Elvis music. Infidel!

Terry Sheehan

You know, I really like Trump and I am a supporter, but…

… it makes you wonder with all the firings that Trump does make himself the only consistent, persistent person in a sea of chaos. Perhaps that’s a strategy he learned a long time ago.

It’s not The Apprentice. There is something to be said for consistency.

That said, Bolton’s hard-line on a lot of things did give me pause.

I was really sorry to see Mattis go.

Helpful Medal

“Trump, on the other hand, campaigned on the promise to get the U.S. out of conflicts”

Yea, anyone with a brain knew that was bullshit. Speaking of which, what’s with all these dumbasses claiming to be anti-war and voting Republican? If I wanted an end to the wars I’d vote for Barney Sandals or some dumb shit. I vote Republican because I fucking love war and I hope we stay at war forever.

A Proud Infidel®™️

Don’t go away mad, just go away.

Slow Joe

Motley Crue!!!

A Proud Infidel®™️

You spend a LOT of time huffing floor wax, don’t you?

Slow Joe

But, it is a motley crue song!

I just googled it and I was right.

A Proud Infidel®™

What are you, a Post Librarian or are you detailed to work in a nearby Gym?

11B-Mailclerk

You turned it up to 11.

There is a fine line between clever and stupid.

11B-Mailclerk

But you do I have a grasp of the classics, for which you are apparently Unforgiven.

11B-Mailclerk

But you do have a grasp of the classics, for which you are apparently Unforgiven.

Deckie

Coming from someone who has never been to war, I’m betting.

Helpful Medal

I’m actually posting from Iraq right now.

A Proud Infidel®™

You sound like some 5’3″ 290 pound troll posting from his Momma’s basement while wearing spandex, the type who reads “Soldier of Fortune” off the rack in a 7-11 with a scowl on your face thinking it makes you look like an intimidating badass.

Helpful Medal

Dude, have you SEEN the shit besig posts? He’s posted fucking Pepe memes on here, for fuck’s sake.

Speaking of which, I’ve seen pics of you in your mandals and jean shorts from back in the days when you were first posting here, and I wouldn’t be so quick to call someone else short.

A Proud Infidel®™

You’ve already proven yourself to be a babbling idiot.

Deckie

Sure you are…

A Proud Infidel®™

I’m sure he’ll be checked out on that and he’ll be called out on it the moment a Moderator has proof that he’s full of shit!

Helpful Medal

They already know I’m here, just like Jonn knew when I was posting from Kuwait, and from Afghanistan. I’ve been here longer than you.

Deckie

And yet, trolling never gets old for you.

Helpful Medal

Trolling = pointing out our hypocrisy. One of the reasons I like posting here is because the double standards never get old. You guys dedicated a post and 200 comments when Obama saluted a service member while holding a cup of coffee in his hand. When Trump saluted a North Korean General, you know how many posts you guys had about it? Take a guess.

MI Ranger

I would say you probably never had the brief on what a salute is, and what it means!
A Salute is a form of greeting among honorable opponents. Originated in medieval times as the raising of ones visor to show your respect to your opponent, and you came openly with arms to compete fairly.
Later it was used as a sign of respect from subordinates to leaders, and returned by the leader to the subordinate to show they will honor their service.
In your first example it was a sign of disrespect to be holding a coffee cup, similar to not saluting at all and walking.
In your second example it was as a sign of respect that we would fight honorably.
By the way, the bagels were stale in the DFAC yesterday… can you get that fixed HELPFUL MEDAL?

26Limabeans

Excellent tutorial using your opponents examples.

Deckie

That you really cannot tell the difference between your two examples doesn’t say much for you…

D. B. Cooper

Just think how happy everyone would be if you were to disappear like me.

Helpful Medal

I believe D.B. Cooper is still alive more than I believe anyone could be stupid enough to be anti-war and still vote Republican.

Between Trump walking back his promise to leave Syria and calling off meetings with the Taliban, I couldn’t be happier.

A Proud Infidel®™

You sound like the type who spends hours blabbing about how the Lunar Landings were faked and “Pro Wrestling” is for real.

Deckie

Just because your Call of Duty level takes place in Iraq doesn’t mean you’re actually there…

Helpful Medal

Yes, I’m actually here. In fact, I pretty much only post on TAH when I’m deployed because it’s one of the few fun websites left that isn’t blocked on the domain here. I remember we used to have a lot of people posting here from deployed areas, like that Warrant pilot from Afghanistan, but it seems most of them left.

Deckie

Right.

A Proud Infidel®™

You sounds like a VERY thin-skinned little wannabe. If you are truly deployed, my bet is that you’re on you’re first tour with a rear-echelon MOS.

Helpful Medal

You? Calling people thin-skinned? That’s a hoot. You’ve been bitching and whining on this site for over eight years. You post so goddamn much that it’s pretty easy to figure out that you, much like Mary, who lives in a fucking trailer park full of cats and is a fuck fatass, are nothing more than a loud little manlet and all of your insults are just projections of your own insecurities.

This isn’t my first deployment, it’s my 10th. And I’m not rear echelon, I’m part of the forward deployed group.

A Proud Infidel®™

LMAO, I truly think that you’re more full of shit with each of your posts. Keep the laughs coming Troll-thing, I got a GOOD laugh out of that!!! Now if you’ll excuse me, I’m off to my life, so you’ll have to settle for reading the latest copy of “Soldier of Fortune” at your local 7-11 or book store thinking it makes you look like the badass that you aren’t, later!

Hack Stone

“What’s a book store?”

Signed,
Millennial Warrior

OWB

Reality check:

Most sane folks ARE anti-war. Sane folks understand that being prepared to fight a war, should it become necessary, is the best possible way to avoid war. But, when somebody else decides that war will happen, reducing the number of casualties by mounting an effective counter attack is the only sensible response.

But you already knew that.

Helpful Medal

The only reason the United States exists is because of war. War got us the 13 colonies, war got us the Louisiana Purchase, war got us the Mexican territories, war got us Puerto Rico (well, not all of them were great).

War is still the most effective way to take what you want. When Trump said we’d take the oil from Iraq I was ecstatic. Why the fuck don’t we take their oil? Why don’t we take the whole region and turn it into the 51st state?

Russia is doing exactly this and no one is stopping them.

26Limabeans

Perhaps you should join the Russian Army.

Helpful Medal

See, that’s what I like about you guys: no rebuttal and just name calling, whattaboutism and re-direction.

Lot less anti-war pussies in Russia. An overwhelming majority of Russians support the war in Crimea.

A Proud Infidel®™

Ooh, you ARE a thin-skinned little wannabe!

ArmyATC

I’m sure the irony escapes you. Now what’s the definition of hypocrisy?

Helpful Medal

The definition of hypocrisy is being an anti-war hippie faggot and calling yourself a Republican. But I’ll bet that most of you dumbasses go around telling everyone that you’re a Libertarian like Jonn did, as if that’s any better.

ArmyATC

Yeah, the point flew right over your head.

A Proud Infidel®™

I and other TAH Regulars®™ think you’re full of shit, but time will tell. IF YOU ARE deployed I think you sound like a Supply or PAC Clerk with delusions of grandeur.

Helpful Medal

Says the fucking E-5 that did a tour in Kuwait? LOL, tell me more, Mr. Fobbit.

A Proud Infidel®™

Says you, o little wannabe, I’ve done no less than three Overseas Tours.

You lose, just stay in your Momma’s basement and sulk.

Helpful Medal

“Overseas tours”

Soooooo….. not deployments, then? Gotcha. How was the Starbucks at Doha, POG?

A Proud Infidel®™

Nope, two Deployments and a tour next to the Korean DMZ in the early 90’s, you lose yet again, little troll!

ArmyATC

“war got us the Louisiana Purchase”

*snicker*

A Proud Infidel®™

An entertaining little idiot, isn’t he/she/it?

Helpful Medal

Yea, shithead. Because we kicked their asses back to France so they couldn’t settle there. They sold it to us rather than us just seizing it by force later. Smart move on their part.

ArmyATC

That’s not how it happened, but whatever.

Ex-PH2

The Louisiana Purchase cost the USA $15,000,000, and gave this country enough land for 13 additional states.
It was NOT obtained through warfare.

Keep this up, and you’ll be in moderation. Pick your fights some place else.

Helpful Medal

“Pick your fights some place else.”

What, that trailer in Chicago isn’t enough of a safe space for you?

A Proud Infidel®™

You sound like a member of the Dutch Rudder Gang.

SFC D

Exactly my thoughts. He’s sounding more and more Bernathian every day.

AW1Ed

Helpful Medal, Congrats! You have been selected for special moderation, a self-inflicted condition that means I’ll nuke your comments. The best way out of this condition is an apology, and ceasing to make disparaging comments, insulting our fellow TAH’ers. I realize an apology isn’t coming, but the second part stands one way or the other.
Have a TAH day.

Mick

KA-BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!!!

Shack!

BDA = 100/100

Cleared to RTB to Mother for rearm and refuel.

Expect Signal Charlie upon arrival.

A Proud Infidel®™

I’m surprised he hasn’t already been moderated, but he/she/it that goes by the moniker “Helpful Medal” has just recently gone over the edge with claims that he/she/it is posting from the Middle East. The troll has been briefly entertaining for the time being, but I’m sure that it will soon start boring me and others.

GDContractor

Hussar! Wazzup?

USMC Steve

I hate to tell ya dude, but most of our costliest wars were started by socialist dems. WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam, to name a few.

NHSparky

Go suck start a shotgun, boy.

Veritas Omnia Vincit

I didn’t understand why Bolton was ever hired in the first place, it’s not like he’s subtle at all about what he believes.

Neocon chickenhawk, and the kind of guy who will leak information to promote his own personal views at the expense of anyone else including his boss and his own party….so fuck that guy and good riddance.

Ex-PH2

Well, he was the US ambassador to the UN a while back. That, and the avuncular mustached look make him seem less annoying than he really is.
Maybe it’s time we kicked the UN out of New York City. All it does is drain tax money that could go to more important things in this country, things like road and dam repair and construction, passenger rail expansion, more job training in tech and engineering – stuff like that.

A Proud Infidel®™

I concur, I say we need to kick the United Nothing OFF OF US Soil, let them set up shop in say, Geneva!

Fjardeson

As I’ve said before, convert the UN building into low-rent housing. 🙂

A Proud Infidel®™

Better yet, let President Trump redevelop that piece of Real Estate sometime after January 20, 2025!

rgr769

I think Bolton was a good pick for the job, especially after McMaster turned out to be a swamp critter. But once Trump decided Bolton was undermining his decisions, he had to go.

11B-Mailclerk

Trump is consistent. Some folks just expect to see something else, and are confused.

That is kinda how camouflage works, and I am amazed at how many folks miss that.

Trump is not a politician. Expecting him to be one, or act like one, is … not wise.

26Limabeans

He does point to something I did not see
beforehand in each of the people dismissed.
Common enough that I now look for it.
I like Bolton as an ambassador and UN
antagonist but not as NSA under Trump.