GAO: IRS Had 4,487 Guns; 5,062,006 Rounds of Ammunition
By Terence P. Jeffrey
(CNSNews.com) – The Internal Revenue Service had in its weapons inventory 4,487 guns and 5,062,006 rounds of ammunition as of late 2017, according to a report published this month by the Government Accountability Office.
Included in this arsenal, according to the GAO, were 15 “fully automatic firearms” and 56,000 rounds of ammunition for those fully automatic firearms.
The same report–“Federal Law Enforcement: Purchases and Inventory Controls of Firearms, Ammuntion, and Tactical Equipment”–says that the Office of the Inspector General of the Department of Health and Human Services had 194 fully automatic firearms and 386,952 rounds of ammunition for those fully automatic firearms.
“The term ‘fully automatic’ used in this report,” says a footnote in the report, “encompasses a range of firearms classified as machine guns, including submachine guns, three round burst guns, and guns with a selector switch that can enable continuous fire.”
The guns in the IRS inventory also included 3,302 pistols, 623 shotguns, 543 rifles, and 4 revolvers.
The ammunition stockpiled by the IRS—in addition to the 56,000 rounds for its fully automatic firearms–included 3,156,046 pistol and revolver rounds, 368,592 shotgun rounds and 1,481,368 rifle rounds.
The IRS’s firearms and ammunition are used primarily by its Criminal Investigation (CI) unit, which is manned by 2,148 federal law enforcement officers. But some of it is also used by the IRS’s Police Officer Section, which includes only 9 federal law enforcement officers.
“IRS’ Criminal Investigation serves the American public by investigating potential criminal violations of the Internal Revenue Code and related financial crimes in compliance with the law,” the GAO explained in the report it published this month.
“IRS’ Police Officer Section,” said the report, “provides protection for the people, property and processes of its Enterprise Computing Center in Martinsburg, West Virginia, which houses 10 of IRS’ 19 critical tax processing functions.”
Wonder who got the revolvers? The rest of this disturbing article may be viewed at: CNS News
Tip ‘o the hat to our very own Poetrooper. Thanks buddy- keep ’em coming.
“The same report–“Federal Law Enforcement: Purchases and Inventory Controls of Firearms, Ammuntion, and Tactical Equipment”–says that the Office of the Inspector General of the Department of Health and Human Services had 194 fully automatic firearms and 386,952 rounds of ammunition for those fully automatic firearms.”
This is disturbing. I’d expect the IRS to have guns, because they have to bust people like Al Capone and the moonshiners in the hills of Appalachia.
But why would the Dept. of Health and Human Services need guns at all? Are they expecting someone to break into the CDC’s vaults and steal flu vaccines?
Ex-PH2, I know your comment was facetious, but the answer is yes, the CDC does have good cause for concern over the contents of it’s vaults. Granted, flu vaccine theft may not be worrisome, but they have lots and lots of nasty stuff there that require Level-4 biosafety.
Still, I’m quite interested in the answer to the question of where those “194 fully automatic firearms and 386,952 rounds” are stored or housed, and who is intended to compentently use them. Unfortunately, I hear DHHS and all that comes to mind is civil servants with attitudes and behavior that do not match their job classification title.
“…civil servants with attitudes…”
I don’t have an attitude. I’m just over-experienced.
From a distance it is hard to tell the difference, though.
*grin*
I don’t have an attitude, I have experience, knowledge, and wisdom – which others lack.
Yeah, I think that the policification (if I may make up a word) of these government agencies is quite troubling to honest citizens.
Ask the folks in Venezuela – but you may need to go to Colombia, Brazil, or Peru to get an answer.
CDC is one of two places left in the world with live small pox. Don’t really want that getting out.
That’s one of two KNOWN places, Mason. It’s out there somewhere, in some spot that no one has ever been to… waiting.
I do know about some of the nastier bugs in those vaults.
Anthrax, for example, was no longer part of the popular culture as a disease because dry weather in the Plains States had made it go dormant. The anthrax organism can survive more than 150 years in its shell, but wetter-than-usual weather will soften the spore shell and revive the organism, which is what happened in 2005-2006 in the Great Plains. Cattle had not been vaccinated for that for nearly 100 years because it was “wiped out”, but it really was not gone. It was just dormant.
I did talk to my sister about things like smallpox, which are supposed to be extinct, and she agreed that somewhere, there is a colony of it hiding. We just haven’t come across it yet.
So I do get the “nasty bugs” thing. I’m more concerned that all those vaccinations we got in childhood (and again at boot camp) don’t last, period. They fade.
Agreed on the fading efficacy of childhood vaccinations, I’m living proof.
Back in 2016 when I decided to again become a college student, I was required to show proof of vaccinations. Let’s just say that in the past several decades, my former high school did not see fit to hold on to immunization records. Or, being Chicago Public Schools, were too incompetent to find them, along with the rest of my records.
In all my medical records, this was not something I ever bothered to retain either.
So, I had to get a titre test. I never had the Mumps or Measles vaccine, as I had both of those diseases as a child, but I did get a Rubella vaccine. The titre test showed no antibodies for any of the above, so I had to get a few shots.
I guess that neither having the disease itself, even a particularly nasty case as I did, or the vaccine assures immunity decades later. Word to the wise, considering all the antivaxers out there, get a titre test to be safe.
As a side note, graduation ceremonies and all public gatherings other than classes were cancelled at Lewis University this month because of one confirmed and nine suspected cases of measles. I’m still trying to figure out how someone contracted measles if all students and faculty are required to receive vaccinations. It’s possible the one, and the nine, were no longer immune. It’s more likely they were antivaxxers.
I am living proof that one can take the recommended Measles vaccine and still contract a (fortunately mild) case of it.
They did change the doseing and age recommendations based on folks like me.
Still worthwhile to mass-inoculate our population. Lots of nasty stuff easily walks in the front door via air travel.
HHS-OIG investigates criminal fraud and patient harm cases involving Medicare and Medicaid. A number of fraud cases involve organized crime (Russian, Cuban, Cartel, etc.) They have found that healthcare fraud nets more money and lesser penalties than the traditional illicit drug and human smuggling activities.
I have to wonder if some of this us creative budgeting. Are some of these weapons actually in the possession of other agencies? Are they using this ammo stockpile to backfill other agencies training requirements? Nope, I have no empirical data. What I do have is knowledge of how a crafty S3 and a devious S4 can get shit done.
Some of it may simply be the usual budget insanity of “use it or lose it” purchases at the end of a fiscal year.
Guns and ammo keep well, and have utility.
It’s a US Government Agency, what could go wrong?
“I’m from the US Gov. I’m here to help.”
Which of the two statements are true? Sister Mary Grace will be collecting and grading the test paper.
I fail to see the problem here. The IRS receives thousands of threats from sovereign citizens and Libertarian anti-tax assholes every year. And the firearms are clearly designated for their protection branch. The excessive ammunition is probably a result of their inability to regularly qualify with their assigned weapons.
The bureaucracy that couldn’t shoot straight? Oh, great. I would think there are plenty of LEOs in government branches that actually do law enforcement, without a bunch of tax accountants running around with full auto weapons, qualified or not.
I meant because they probably didn’t have the opportunity to shoot, not because they failed to actually make a qualifying score. I think you guys underestimate just how much the IRS is loathed amongst Americans, but they have one of the most important jobs amongst all the federal agencies.
It should also be noted that they are one of the only federal agencies to actually make a profit for the government from chasing down tax evaders. They pay for those weapons several times over every single day.
…with my tax dollars, LCpl R. Belay that, OUR tax dollars.
they do not, as you say, pay for those weapons many times over.
As for the IRS having weapons…why does the US government have more than one police force? We have an FBI…refer the cases.
As for security, we have both a security department and a protective services (marshals). Why can’t such duties be included within their charters?
No, the IRS does not have an internal police force because of “threats” or investigative requirements. They have armed personnel because so many of their cases are patent BS and the FBI won’t touch them.
As for “tax evaders”, why are weapons necessary to investigate such things? They are not, of course.
Some tax scofflaws are loonies with a violent streak, others are already violent organized crooks. Thus, there is a need, occasionally, for a show of force.
But I -heartily- concur that the US Marshals service should be tasked with Federal displays of “Badge Force”. By making them the only Federal LE agency with more than basic sidearms, they serve two purposes: 1) a check on all other agency level of violence and or stupid, and 2) one set of rules, one set of standards, one set of accountable Heads to be held accountable for use of force errors.
The US Marshals have a pretty good rep, going back over 150 years. They haven’t wrecked that rep in the ways that the FBI and ATF and IRS have through unwise showboating. (And now apparent Praetorean Guard attempts at Empire building.)
Trust is -important- for Law Enforcement.
I don’t see the issue here either. Federal investigators are armed, so they need weapons which need ammo.
What’s really highlighted here is that there’s an absurd variety of federal law enforcement agencies. Tons of overlap, which creates needless redundancies and waste. To be fair, this isn’t just an issue with LE, it’s across the whole federal government (and most state and even local). Self-fulfilling bureaucracy.
Just on the LE side, do people realize that every major federal agency (USPS, NASA, NSA, CIA, et. al.) has criminal investigators, and many also have a uniformed police department that services the properties? I worked a detail one time and got partnered up with a Department of Agriculture investigator. Department of Ag. Even he said he didn’t realize they had criminal investigators until he got offered the job.
Your initial point is right on the money. Between 9 a.m and 5 p.m. weekdays DC is has more “police” per capita than any tinpot dictatorship in the world. Outside of these hours it’s giving Bmore a run for the crime capital of the U.S.
Example: The Navy Yard shootings. Agency LEOs were bumping into each other to get through the gate, and everybody was In Charge for an hour or so. The result: CHAOS.
3-round burst is considered “fully automatic” now?
I imagine a number of those fully automatic weapons are submachine guns, such as the H&K MP-5. Anyway, I would hope HHS’s almost 200 fully automatic weapons don’t include GPMG’s and SAW’s, or M-2’s.
More than one round per single pull of the trigger. Yes. For like the last 100 years.
“Greater than 1” equals “Title II” since 1936.
I guess they can’t shoot worth a damn if they need that much ammo for so few weapons.
OTOH, is could just be another matter of the U.S. versus the citizens of the U.S.
Tw, I’m a govvie and my branch has nuclear weapons. Eric Swalwell has me on speed dial.
/sarc
After reading the above, all I can say is that I’m glad that we have the 2 A if something goes wrong.
I am certain these government employees are wasting our tax dollars.
As it is I spend a lot of money on ammo.
Imagine if the taxpayers bought my ammo for me?
My ammo use would quadruple!
I’ve been figiting here on the homefront, ’cause I got a extra good Black Friday deal on ammo and either have been too sick (two weeks!), occupied enjoying grandkids & Christmas (no complaints), or it has been raining so much that the ravine I shoot in has been a flowing stream.
When I do get out, I’m gonna have to remind myself how to grip the firearm.
My mother-in-law is a retired IRS secretary, they tried to send her to “machine gun school” for years. She turned them down.
So, she has you on speed-dial and expects you to put some Claymores out should she need help?
The big takeaway here is to pay your taxes…. or else.
Even then, the IRS has been known to persecute honest citizens.
When my paternal grandmother died, we had all her IRS returns since the 1940s because she’d had to fight them so much she kept everything.
When my father died, I had his IRS returns and earning statements back to after his discharge from the U.S.Army at the end of WWII – for the same reason.
When we were out of country, the IRS sent him a letter saying they wanted to audit his return again. He sent them a nice note telling them that the next time their auditor was in South America he’d be glad to meet with him. I think that was the only thing that broke the chain of annual audits.
Some IRS puke got his nose out of joint, and decided to cause as much Hell for my grandmother and father as he could.
The government is not your friend, even if you are upstanding tax-paying citizen.
There isn’t and shouldn’t be an issue here. The IRS has a law enforcement arm for criminal investigations (IRS-CI) that deals with big money laundering and other financial crimes by transnational organized crime organizations, corrupt misappropriated assets that are laundered through our financial system by actors such as Venezuela’s senior leaders. They track drug money and investigate some significant crimes. There are more than 2,000 special agents in that bureau and they have some very stringent qualification requirements – hence the loads of ammo.
I had an IRS-CI agent embedded in my office when I was at my last job. The much ado is about nothing.
Disagree, Nicki. There is an issue here, and it’s posted for all to view and comment.
Agree, disagree, or be ambivalent, the fact is some non-military branches of the US Government have more firepower than a small country.
Several have commented why this is acceptable but I disagree. There are numerous government branches that have real LEOs to enforce laws. Gotta love those Coasties…
*grin*
Part of my comfort level with all this breaks out as simply: Are firearms really necessary to enforce regulations? Sure, we can all see the need for investigators et al who enforce felony criminal law, particularly violent criminal law, to be armed when they arrest criminals. But investigators who enforce regulations, the violation of which might take you ultimately to a civil court, and perhaps a fine? Not convinced.
Folks, these guys don’t “enforce regulations.” They are full-fledged law enforcement officers, and therefore are armed. They’re not going after some dude who filed his taxes wrong. They’re going after actual CRIMINALS. And yes, they are real LEOs.
Cheers! Happy New Year
As far as ammo, it’s not unusual at all. Federal LE typically qualifies quarterly. A LEO may have two pistols and a rifle or shotgun assigned to them. If you estimate 200 rounds per pistol for the courses of fire quarterly, that’s 1600 rounds per LEO per year just to keep current on pistol qualifications. Just for the IRS’s LEOs it would require approximately 3.5 million rounds for them to qualify on two pistols each year. The total amount of ammunition is totally reasonable for both training and duty ammunition per year. When I was a state LEO, it was not unusual for me to shoot 5000+ rounds a year during training, that’s one person with two pistols and a rifle. My agencies ammunition purchases per agent were probably much higher than what the IRS’s is.
As far as the number of LEOs in the IRS and other agencies, that is a relatively low amount. Roughly 2.8% of IRS employees are LEOs. This includes investigators and uniformed officers. The IRS has approximately 77000 employees. Every agency’s Inspector General office is staffed by LEOs, every major federal agency’s field office has numerous LEOs on staff for investigations that cover that region. All of these agencies conduct regular criminal investigations covering the portion of US Code that particular agency is statutorily obligated to investigate.
Taken out of context and perspective it seems alarming. Looked at within the big picture, it is a perfectly reasonable number. None of this precludes that fact that the federal government is bloated, inefficient and duplicates a number of services between agencies.
5,062,006 / 4487 = a bit over 1,128 rounds per weapon.
Nah, don’t see a big deal here. I’ve probably got somewhere close to that on hand myself.
These numbers are not alarming.
Do the math. This is about 1100 rounds per weapon, rough order of magnitude.
Agents have to both train and qualify on their weapon twice a year. I’m guessing, but qualification is anywhere from 50-100 rounds, depending on the weapon and the role of the shooter. Double or even triple that for training rounds, and you are at about 400 rounds per agent to keep them current on their sidearm. Tactical teams will shoot weekly if not more.
On top of that, you have to have an operational stockpile- each agent has so many loaded magazines on hand at any given time, etc.
So, no, these numbers are not alarming.