Gunnery Sergeant Joseph Felix, drill instructor gets ten years
Time magazine reports that Marine Corps drill instructor Gunnery Sergeant Joseph Felix was sentenced to ten years in prison, demotion to private, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and a dishonorable discharge for trainee abuse while he was at Camp Lejeune, North Carolina.
The charges against Felix included commanding recruits to choke each other; ordering them to drink chocolate milk and then training them until they vomited; and punching recruits in the face or kicking them to the ground.
“He wasn’t making Marines. He was breaking Marines,” prosecutor Lt. Col. John Norman told the jury on Wednesday. He called Felix a bully who heaped special abuse on three Muslim recruits because of their faith.
One of them, Raheel Siddiqui, a 20-year-old Pakistani-American from Taylor, Michigan, hurled himself to his death after what the jury decided was mistreatment by Felix that included slapping Siddiqui and calling him a terrorist. Siddiqui’s family sued the Marine Corps last month for $100 million.
The government did not charge Felix with any crime directly related to Siddiqui’s death. The judge, Lt. Col. Michael Libretto, did not allow testimony about whether Felix’s actions were responsible for the recruit’s suicide.
Felix was also charged with forcing one trainee, Lance Corporal Ameer Bourmeche, to renounce his Muslim faith by making him ride inside the unit’s laundry dryer. Rekan Hawez, a native of Iraqi Kurdistan was forced into the dryer, but the machine was never turned on.
I don’t know any Non-Commissioned Officers who would have engaged or condoned this behavior. Felix was an exception to the rule. Private Felix can serve his prison time knowing that Bowe Bergdahl is running around free without a dishonorable discharge. While I agree that Felix earned his sentence, Bergdahl deserved an equal sentence.
Category: Marine Corps
Thanks. I had forgotten how many years Bergdahl got for desertion on the battlefield. /s
Prison time IS NOT what birddog deserved…..HE NEEDED A ROPE!!
This is a prime example of the pussification of America. I endured far worse at Parris Island than that non hacker, crybaby, rat who was put in a dryer. Poor little victim. I am the man I am today because of the shit the D.I.’s put me through. Meanwhile, it’s just fine and dandy for tranny’s to give away secrets, and soldiers can desert their combat units and conspire with the enemy for a 300,000 payday. Sad day for the Marine Corps.
Also the military will now pay for “reassignment” surgery for these tranny types. What a joke, where is the military of my day and I guess many others on here (1960’s).
I passed through PI fifty years ago so I definitely qualify as “old corps”. Yes, we were beaten and choked and had to duck walk around the squad bay lugging our footlockers. Bends and thrusts forever. The DI’s made the lone recruit in our platoon who shot unqualified on the rifle range repeatedly charge the target-from five hundred yards-and scream at it because “…you ain’t’ gonna hit shit with that weapon”. He eventually puked and collapsed. I actually look back on those days fondly, and yes, the esprit and the discipline the DI’s foster served -and all of us-well in Vietnam. But stuffing a recruit in a dryer? C’mon, that’s just torture. The CG will probably reduce Felix’s sentence but his conviction is valid.
Ten years? Get the fuck out of here. What was his crime? He hurt some feelings…ten years in prison?
One little twink leaped off the stairwell, Airborne training is always at Ft. Benning.
Oh my, he slapped and called wannabe warriors…no wonder people are wanting to serve without their cock these days.
If you ain’t got a pair, grow a pair…if ya cant grow a pair, join the Army for Christ sake.
Whiners, all of you.
I was about to get all butt hurt about the Army comment… then I saw who posted the comment. 🙂
Gee, and I thought WAVES boot camp was bad because they made us starch our shirt collars, polish our shoes, and iron our ties. No wonder I spent a couple of weeks crying myself to sleep at night. What did I sign up for? My God, the horror!!!!!! / (snerrkk)
I guess he missed his chance to say, “Because Transgender!” or “But I went through hell myself!” to get an easier sentence.
How do we know he really punched and slapped recruits?
Was there any witnesses beside the 3 lslamic dudes?
Other recruits, and a fellow DI testified as well.
Interesting.
I wonder if the defense had any witnesses to the contrary.
If something like this really happened, everyone in there would know about it.
I guess I find it hard to believe that a drill instructor would physically harm his recruits. This is 101 of what NOT to do.
That was the clinker in the article for me – that “judge, Lt. Col. Michael Libretto, did not allow testimony about whether Felix’s actions were responsible for the recruit’s suicide.” So they used the suicide against him but did not allow evidence about the suicide? That ring anyone else’s bell?
Yes, it rang mine. Almost comes under scapegoating.
I know everyone is pissed about the sentence compared to Berghdahls as well as “well fuck back in my day they shoved the dryer AND 10 Muslims in my asshole….”
But BS like this, specifically targeting a religion, makes it harder for the Corps, as an institution, to do its mission.
Specifically recruit native and native born speakers. Marine Recruiters are pretty much forbidden in places like Hamtramck and Dearborn because of this specific incident
“Specifically recruit native and native born speakers. Marine Recruiters are pretty much forbidden in places like Hamtramck and Dearborn because of this specific incident”.
So U.S. Marine recruiters are forbidden to go to places in America and the problem here is Gunny Felix? WOW
I live and work (recruiting support for the Army) in the area.
Yes. This specific incident has and continues to have repercussions for the Corps.
Like I really give a fuck. More for us.
I didn’t say forbidden. I said no one will talk with them or encourage their kids/friends/family to talk with them.
I guess I did say forbidden. Sorry not enough coffee. Should of said persona non grata.
Still not enough coffee.
Try ‘should HAVE said’.
Precisely. This ain’t 1964. As someone who was driving around Mosul in 2004 when Abu-Ghraib hit, Baghdad in 2010 when Manning had his little intel oops, and Kandahar in 2012 when Bales decided to take out 16 civilians, I know intimately what effect news has on local conditions. Felix instantly made it tougher for the services to recruit from Arab population centers AND made it more interesting to work with allies overseas. One of the trainees was a Kurd, for Christ’s sake – no better allies in the ME area and this yahoo shits on that. Gee, why would I want an interpreter that speaks good english and is under UCMJ when I can use some local picked up through whatever contractor service the US has chosen for that month. I have to wonder when all of you beat my chest types actually served and where. Try using that muscle on top of your shoulders. Bergdahl and Manning are pieces of shit and their sentences were ridiculous, but that’s the way things turned out, and there is no changing it. Focus on shit that affects the force NOW, not back in the day, and try to remember that NCOs are supposed to set the example – especially Senior NCOs. I read elsewhere 5 other instructors were investigated, and the Battalion CO was relieved.
And regular white folks are banned in Hamtramck and Dearborn as they have been turned into Dearbornistan and Hamistan and placed under sharia law.
Fuck them, fuck the camels they rode in on and fuck anyone that stands for allowing separate laws on the territory of the United States of America…
Sure sure. Just recruit more Arabic, Pahshtun and Farsi speaking Mexicans.
I hear the Amish are deadly warriors, always attacking and killing others. Maybe we can get some of the good ones to fight on our side?
Kinda like the Blue Laws they finally got rid of only a few decades ago – what part of the Constitution was that, again?
Three competing parts, actually: the power of Congress to regulate interstate commerce, the reserved powers under the 10th Amendment, and (arguably) the 1st Amendment. However, Congressional power to regulate commerce didn’t enter into it, as as far as I know the US has never had a Federal “blue law”.
And reality is quite different than you imply in your comment.
For starters: a rather large number of such laws still exist, and are in effect today. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_laws_in_the_United_States
Second: while Sunday “blue laws” might seem (and do indeed seem to me) to place faiths that have a day other than Sunday as their Holy Day at a disadvantage, last time I checked the SCOTUS has ruled that Sunday blue laws were lawful and constitutional on multiple occasions. See
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_law#Court_cases
Blue laws have indeed become less common during the past 50 years, but they’re not extinct today. And the reason they’ve become less common is not because they’re unconstitutional; per the SCOTUS, they are in general permissible if written properly. Rather, they’ve become less common because the legislators in areas having Blue Laws have bowed to public pressure and have changed local laws to conform more closely to their voting public’s opinion that they’re no longer necessary.
Calm down Skippy.
Ali Babba is not going to take your guns.
Check the rhetoric.
Out.
ore happy horseshit brought to you by the pukes from the GWB,oblowme military.
These are the same fucks that let the Sutherland Springs shooter go with one year in prison and a BCD for beating up his wife and fracturing the skull of his 18 month old stepson.
The blood of all those victims lies squarely on the hands of that Air Force judge, as far as I’m concerned, he should be shot…
The bad thing about this one is that this type of sentence will lead to more combat deaths as recruits learn that they don’t have to do the things their leaders tell them…
All these fucks deserve to be shot…
One can only hope that it follows them into the next life and haunts them for many, many centuries…
Amen!!!!
Ridiculous. The shooter was responsible for his own actions. The clerk that failed to transfer the record of conviction is responsible pro for his, as well.
This incident damaged the Coprs reputation, hurt recruiting, and resulted in a needless death. It also taught an entire platoon not to trust NCOs.
You don’t have to do what your leader tells you if it is an illegal or unethical act- in fact, you have a duty to refuse such orders.
A good DI/DS doesn’t have to use abusive techniques because they maintain high standards in tough, realistic training. Seems to me there was a lot of spare time for fuck fuck games and not enough time training.
I don’t necessarily agree with the sentence, especially when compared to the one handed down to certain former Army “sergeants” and that served by a confused unintelligent former intel analyst, but this guy is a part of the problem the military has in attracting and retaining the best recruits.
I’m a Drill Sergeant at Benning, and I’ve seen and heard some questionable things, but nothing quite like this ex-Marine’s doings. Being tough and breaking kids down to rebuild them is one thing, but like it or not this isn’t the 1940’s anymore. Yes, we’re at war with radical Islamists, but we aren’t at war with Islam itself. There are no internment camps and many of our allies share the same faith that this immature and probably self-righteous ex-sergeant targeted.
I have a lot of personal feelings and beliefs that I suppress because, well, I’m an NCO and especially a Drill Sergeant who cannot allow emotion or potential prejudices to interfere with my work. There is no room in today’s military for physical abuse and emotional torture based solely on an individual’s beliefs. Whether that’s good or bad, I can’t say. I’m just a lowly NCO who is looking forward to retiring at the highest rank I attain; the officers and senior enlisted advisors determine what is and is not permissible in an Initial Entry Training environment.
I will say that this former Gunny should have been reined in by his seniors and peers. If they had been more proactive, he might not have disgraced himself, the uniform, and DIs/DS’ in every service.
Agreed.
Holy Mercrotroid, As on the OKIE 3 as a screw up before getting AJ Fucking Squared away, I was also a screw up while going through Great Lakes Boot camp in Oct. of 1963. Couldn’t get locker storage right along with clothe stopping the ditty bag on my rack. Clothe stops were these 18 inch cords with metal stops on the ends to prevent unraveling. Same thing as a shoe lace. we had drying rooms for hanging our clothing and had to use these “cords” to wrap around the clothes line then tie it off with a square knot. My ditty bag was cut open every other day because I tied it up wrong and my clothing was on the deck. I got so many demerits, that the only way to lose them was to show up at the drill hall every night and spend an hour or so doing the “96” count manual of arms with our US Enfields while they played this music. I did this while everyone was in the barracks lounge smoking and coking. In those days, smoking was actually smoking cigaretts and drinking coca cola. I went in as a 17 year old kid where a large amount of recruits were older than me. Don’t remember how many times i had to go down and do push ups. First morning on the grinder, I got gigged for not shaving. Who shaves peach fuzz?, So I had to walk through one of the Dempster dumpsters with a couple of other guys for being a scrounge. Thank God Mom had me take along a double edged razor which I learned to use it the next morning. Nov. 23, the day after JFK was killed, we had Rope Yarn Sunday.
Nuke school pipeline. I know of three suicides and one armed hostage event by the time I got to my first command. All occurred post-boot. Any suicide is sad. I’m sure that LTC Libretto has less understanding of what was going on in the recruit’s head than he think he does. Should all branches proactively screen for suicidal tendencies, probably. Recognizing of course that a psych washout might be the final straw.
Good thing they published this on Veteran’s Day.
He probably stopped some insider attack but we’ll never know because when you’re Muslim and kill yourself you’re obviously the victim.
There’s been a lot written about the circumstances of Siddiqui killing himself. Among other things, the Parris Island recruit training commander was fired, and 19 DIs were called on the carpet. What seemed to emerge during an investigation was that the 3rd Training Battalion had a problem. It apparently had a reputation for operating by its own set of rules, and not those of the rest of the Marine Corps.
Siddiqui was evidently a weakling, and probably should have been shown the door.
In response to Hardin’s comment above about the Army’s lack of huevos, I’d point out that I watched a kid die from a cardiac arrest one day in basic while we were running relays up a sand dune at Ft. Ord. If there was a key difference between the 3rd Battlion Marine drill instructors at Parris Island, and the Army drill sergeants in my own experience, it was that the Army was smart enough to understand that if you drove some recruit to killing himself, you were causing the destruction of valuable government property.
That kind of understanding also tends to avoid $100 million lawsuits such as the one now filed by Siddiqui’s parents.
Weakling or not, Siddiqui had the stones and patriotism to volunteer to be a Marine in time of war.
He deserved a lot better treatment than he apparently got.
And until it’s known exactly what they did to him, let’s all remember how much we changed between being an 18 or 19 year old recruit and a ‘young salt’ at age 22 or 23.
New recruits are especially vulnerable for a # of reasons, and those tasked with training them and toughening them up have a duty that requires a lot of finesse and a great deal of perception.
ANYONE can drive an 18 or 19 year old, who is away from home for the first time, to the breaking point.
How it’s done, and how the rebuilding is conducted, is very, very important.
Yeah, well, no. Siddiqui’s joining the Marine Corps wasn’t a matter of having stones; it was a matter of letting his bulldog mouth overload his chihuahua ass. If he really had stones, he would have continued on to the end of the training cycle as other recruits in his platoon managed to do without killing themselves.
There’s available evidence, provided by others in Siddiqui’s platoon, that he was not a good recruit for multiple reasons. He probably should have been sent home in an early stage of training. Why the DIs kept him around as a chew toy is a mystery.
If a recruit is singled out for abuse, they’re being set up to fail. It’s a very rare 18-20 yo that’s going to be able to hack it and pass when the drill really is out to get them, specifically. I know most of us felt that way in Basic/Boot, but to have it happen for real?
I hear a lot of Hoorah bs about this DI being victimized by the system. But I’m pretty sure it was a teenager attempting to serve his country that was systematically threatened, mentally and physically abused, and subjected to racist bigotry before he even had the chance to prove himself.
When you do things simply because your rank and position allows you to, then you are not a leader. This NCO deserves his sentence.
The logical fallacy that Siddiqui being a poor recruit, some how validates this DI’s behavior is utter nonsense.
And I’ll answer your question about why the DI’s kept the kid around as a chew toy: because they lacked the stones to utilize normal procedures for separating recruits, they lacked the stones to call out the DI on his behavior and they lacked the stones to lead as an example.
Oh come on.
Sidiqui wanted to go to college.
Perhaps you folks misunderstood. This DI, and evidently a few others, were abusing ALL the recruits, not just Muslims.
Does it really take physical abuse to make a good marine? Or is it just that Marines are into S&M? Or is it some pathological need to prove their manhood by undergoing pointless physical abuse?
Brutal PT with a little crafty intelligence mixed in is 100% more ‘effectve’ than raw brutality, in my experience/opinion.
I must assume you are not a Marine. If not, it’s understandable that you don’t get it. We all withstood some form of “abuse” if you want to call it that and, at least in my opinion, it made me a better Marine and a better person and I would have felt cheated if I had received anything less than the training I received at Parris Island. “Abuse” included. It was understood that it was part of the lore of Marine training and you can’t tell me that Siddiqui did not know this when he signed up. Why did he choose the Marines over the other armed services? He wanted to see if he could hack the training. But he was not emotionally tough enough and possibly not physically tough enough. Did this DI go overboard? Well, probably more so than most DIs and it would assume he had some form of hatred for Muslims, but to assume that Marines are into S&M because we guard our heritage and training is ignorant at best.
Most of us understand that a degree, perhaps even a large amount, of harsh treatment is appropriate for recruit training. That should never be confused with abuse.
For one thing, if the DI is enjoying doing it just a bit too much, it may be inappropriate. If the DI cannot articulate a rational explanation for his behavior based upon school and mission requirements, his behavior may be inappropriate.
Even DI’s have standards they must live by.
If half of what was made public about this DI
is true, he sounds like a serious head case, one which deserves every second of the sentence he received. Sadistic bastards are not needed in the military.
That said, the irony of this sentence juxtaposed with Bergie’s walk for his transgressions was my first thought as well.
I agree the military – at least some large parts of it – has become wussified over the previous couple of decades.
I saw the ‘beginning of the end’, so to speak, with the introduction of ‘stress cards’ in basic/boot/etc.
But pushing a kid to commit suicide by going head first down some stairs…something was done wrong, pushed too far, and a total failure when it comes to having a finger on the ‘pulse’ of a trainees mental well-being.
Putting them in dryers? An extended PT smoking with the threat of being booted or demanding a drop could/would/has accomplished the same thing.
And demanding denouncing one’s religion? Way the fvck out of line. Especially because we all know good old Christian white boys weren’t subjected to same. ‘Nice job, assholes’. Way to stain the USMCs image and give a lot of ammunition to the liberals who hate the military.
At best, he was heavy-handed (for no good reason) and a little clueless as a DI. At worst, he was a racist bully. In either case he had no fvcking business being a DI.
I have to agree, I went through OSUT Training in the early 90’s before they came up with the “Yellow Wuss Cards”, we were dropped, smoked and cussed at quite often, but putting a Recruit in a clothes dryer? I have to give that a big NOPE.
I think maybe we had 2 people in our whole company at Basic who might be able to fit in our dryers, so I don’t think we had to worry about that kind of thing. The only spinning we were doing was riding the buffer.
I went in the early 90s too, though it was after Slick Willy became the CINC. The Yellow Wuss Cards thing didn’t last long, it was around for maybe 6 months in the Army and gotten rid of quietly because it was an embarrassment and not effective anyway.
The Stress Card Legend is a military urban legend with a grain of truth. Various mental health organizations handed out cards with tips for dealing with stress, but they were not ‘time out’ cards that trainees could use to make the DS stop being mean.
https://www.stripes.com/blogs-archive/the-rumor-doctor/the-rumor-doctor-1.104348/follow-up-visit-the-rumor-doctor-s-dissertation-on-stress-cards-1.155850#.WgnCg7AUnxg
I think of Siddiqui’s parents, probably excited and proud as hell that their son was off to join the Marines.
They probably researched the hell out of the USMC, not knowing much.
The dad dreaming all of those ‘What if’s’ that dad’s dream about their sons.
The mom doing the mom worrying, her baby boy is off to join the ‘first to fight’ and we’re at war.
And then to hear, and slowly get the horrific details – that their son was abused to the point of committing suicide in an especially violent and brutal manner.
This makes me very angry.
Prisoner Felix … although reduced to E-1 with all fortfitures, he will be a Prisoner and not a Private.
His records will reflect his last duty station as DB, PRISONER, with a DD.
Rot for ten years and rot as a nobody thereafter, if he ever gets out.
I suspect he will have time added for his infractions related to physical violence.
I heard that after the infamous 1956 Ribbon Creek (PI) incident, A lot of the tough physical training of the recruits by the DI’S were toned down by a no hands on the recruits policy.
He looks like the dick that he is. He got exactly what he deserved. I’m amazed some in this forum are defending this type of behavior. I don’t give a shit what the recruits’ spiritual belief is, no one deserves to be abused.
What an absolute pussy mental midget. Good man goes to the can because some candy ass has his feelings hurt.
Most the folks around here are far from candy asses and have little to no sympathy for those who are. Yet, a “good man” is fairly uniformly criticized by us for stepping several long strides across a line which he should not have crossed.
No. This is not about hurt feelings. This is about abusing people, not just talking trash to or about them. It is further about violating a multitude of rules and regulations.
A “good man” does not do that.
Apparently your standard of excellence in the Corps doesn’t meet the same bar as mine, based on my impressions of Marine NCOs from Iraq and Afghanistan – and I’m a freaking Army guy!
I guess I’m damn lucky we still had clotheslines in 1965 San Diego! The Marine Corps made me what I am, usually an asshole, and it goes against nearly everything I believe to find fault with the rigid Marine Corps training but I do think the DI should probably have been gone long before he made Gunny. I think 10 years is excessive for just being a prick, especially when that useless piece of shit Bergdahl walked out.
My Marine Corps is turning into an organization of vaginas, back in the Korean War our DIs sexually assaulted us every night with no lube! Wahhh, I got out in the dryer, bawww I was denied medical treatment and made to run until passing out! Goddamn pansies.
Fuck that guy. I did two tours at MCRD and this shit stain was off in his own world.
What he did went off the scale.
He wasn’t some combat hardened Marine passing down personal knowledge he learned fighting hadj. He was a supply/ aviation type, also he was in a billet that was meant for a lower rank.
A new Gunny on the drill field should just be able to get his dick wet with two or three cycles and move up to Be a Series Gunnery Sergeant or an NCOIC of a support Bn group.
He went in trying to be a mega hard ass and was a shit leader.
Rule one as a DI is you “can’t teach a pig to sing”. A recruit isn’t worth your career.
I’d like to see what his deployment history was – none of the Marine NCOs I dealt with in Baghdad had behavior remotely close to this turd – from the Embassy detail to PSD teams, all were great guys and consummate professionals.
His MOS was Air Traffic Controller. When he did deploy you can bet your ass he wasn’t knee deep in brass.
While not always the case, Air Wingers, and non Combat MOS’s in particular, often were the worst ones for being over the top and abusive towards recruits. They felt they had to prove themselves as “tough” as Infantry types.
As a matter of fact for most of the training cycle Drill Instructors never let on to recruits what their MOS’s were and let the recruits assume they were Infantry.
I agree with you completely Dog, this guy was mothing but a stain on the Marine Corps and its good he was flushed.
I spent 17 of 30 yrs in direct support of the USMC on Command Staffs. I have utmost respect for Marines at all levels.But I am ashamed of the behaviour of this Gunny and the negative impact it had on recruits.
Question: was he functioning in a vacuum ? Also, isn’t running boots an E4-6 billet? Shouldn’t an E-7 be the one to make sure this doesn’t happen ? My heart breaks for the parents of this recruit. CAPT Bones USN (ret)
Usually Most DIs are Sgts and Staff Sergeants (E-5 and E-6) when they go to DI School.
Once in a while a “Non-Prior” GySgt will request and go through DI School.
Non-Prior being the term for someone who hasn’t already did a tour as a DI prior.
Non-Prior Gunnery Sergeants are Generally looked on like Turds in a punch bowl by Training Company and NOBODY really wants to deal with them.
First off you have to find a Company that has a GySgt Serving as a Senior Drill Instructor, as a SSgt or Sgt can be over a Gunny.
The hope is that you have the GySgt do one cycle as a Jr DI than one as a SDI than move him to be a Series GySgt. That or you move him to support Battalion in one of the billets there.
When I was a 1st Sgt in a training Company we were the “dumping ground” for Gysgts. I got three of them. One was transfered from another company when he was promoted with only 1/2 a cycle and two came from DI school. I had a very good GySgt Who were were waiting to move up to Series GySgt We had 4 Gunnys on a DI team and a Sergeant. The Sergeant was the one who actually did most of the teaching on the recruits.
The Next Cycle we had three Gysgt SDIs who we had to put very strong DIs with.
Those three platoons were not very good, but with the exception of one the Gunnys did alright. The next cycle one of them was selected for Warrant Officer so he was transferred to Bn Routing, One other, who was an exceptional Marine became a Series GySgt and did well, and the last one, who was a slacker got sent to support Bn, where he fucked up.
It sounds like no one kept a leash on Felix
The Battalion commander, at the time, is pending a court martial also. The gunny was under investigation and the Brigade commander ordered that he be suspended from all drill duties. BN CDR put him back on drill duty and then the incident with the suicide happened.
Most of the charges on Felix were for abusing recruits prior to the suicide guy.
Personally, I think he’s a loser who was dumb enough to think he could get sloshed and do whatever he wanted to the recruits. Who wants someone that stupid training recruits?
Marines, just a respectful suggestion.
Make very sure, very sure indeed, that the 8-ball Felix is a fluke, not a symptom. If you want to keep your customs and traditions, better make -absolutely- sure that this is the one and only one of this sort of dipshit wearing that DI hat.
Otherwise, a whole bunch of “smarter” folks are going to “fix” your recruit training processes, and then you will be rather sorry you did not keep a leash on 8-balls like Felix. Because if you are not doing so, get ready to have the discipline imposed externally.
And you will not like what that ultimately does to your Corps.
Sounds like someone who thought he knew more than the Marine Corps about what it takes to be a Marine. Had a 1st Lt who thought the same and would try to ignore red and black flag days in Lejeune because “there’s no such thing in combat”. (This was prior to OIF/OEF) And a Company Co that didn’t think this same Lt needed to or had anything more to learn from his Plt Sgt (me). Needless to say, he ended up being relieved by the Bn Co after numerous f*ck ups.
Training needs to be tough, with individuals pushed to their limits. But there’s a building up process to get them there. One doesn’t run a marathon without first training for it. Being hard is one thing, being stupid, another.
Our job as SNCOs is to also teach those young Marines just pinning on Cpl the difference between the two. I never let my NCOs get to the point where something they did could have gotten them in trouble. No dirtbag was worth the career or future of a good Marine.
I served as a Drill Instructor at 3rd Recruit Training Battalion, Parris Island SC, from 1988 to 1990. The job comes with exceptionally high physical and mental demands on the Marines who volunteer for this duty.
One of the biggest risks the individual Drill Instructor faces is how easy it can be to forget that the Recruits are, first and foremost, human beings. If an individual Drill Instructor engages in inhuman acts or words towards the Recruits entrusted to his care, it is the MANDATORY responsibility of EVERYONE to intervene.
Such intervention is necessary, not only to preserve the health, safety, dignity, and humanity of the Recruits, but for the individual Drill Instructor as well. Humanity lost cannot be recovered.
I think the punishment for the offender here is appropriate. However, blame and shame must be levied upon every person who worked with him, supervised him, or commanded him.
The offender’s loss of humanity did not occur in a vacuum.
McKeon brought series Cmdrs in ’56 stupidity – Felix brought asst series Cmdrs in ’16 stupidity – I only have 78 months as an 8511 (my era) to chime-in here and I can honestly say that even ONE bored/inexperienced & perpetually ambitious officer (another child to train on the gig during spare time…) on deck while your baking (making) up a fresh batch of smartly disciplined, physically fit, basically trained Marines is 1000 too many. Part of those 78 months was making officers at Brown Field as well in saying ocs/pi is like an elephant compared to a frisbee. Having one of them supervising ‘how’ those Marines are made from behind the curtain (very different than rheir own) is one too much. Thats like having Forrest supervise the production of Lamborghinis while Rainman Raymond test drives em… Leave the hat’s alone to do what they do best, make Marines (yes, it’s f*n ugly, like sausage). The word is out; ‘you hurt em, you go away’ (we said ‘you beat em, you eat em’), they (the 90%) get it, noted. However,forcefully holding a gun (skillcraft pen) to their heads while doing it will all but guarantee things like boot will be 100% co-ed/WM’s will be passing IOC faster than that PFC’s wife passes another bum check for $5.47 on a pack of smokes @ 7-day store.. & within a very short time (major culture change of dependance on authority to train/not a good thing/big gov type deal). Typical, predictable & archaic Marine-101 leadership (knee-jerk); judgment… Simple, fry the perp, but MUCH more importantly, scorch the earth & ensure every single (that untrustworthy 90%) hat on both coast’s understands that the same officers staring at you while hiding behind a rack at lights to ‘catch you’ will want to then eat lunch with you… yet, don’t trust you AT ALL…a perfectly formed passive-aggressive nightmare marriage, a really bad one, & who suffers? The kids! These are the same mental midgets that believe in dropping careers for ‘toxic command climate’, yet in the same thought cloud be willing to make ANOTHER Felix by… Read more »