Stolen Valor; the victimless crime
The New York Times Magazine publishes a letter from a daughter, entitled “Should I Reveal That My Dad Pretended to Be a Vietnam Vet?“. The daughter tells the story of her father who had everyone in the family convinced that he was a wounded Vietnam veteran;
I was with my father when he purchased a Purple Heart medal at an antiques fair. He explained that he had lost his, that it was possibly with his first wife. Although I thought it was odd he wouldn’t simply ask for it back, I was a young person who trusted her father, and I didn’t press him.
As he was making plans for the end of his life, he instructed my stepmother not to include his veteran status in his obituary. She honored his wish, though she didn’t understand why. After he died, she wanted to know more about his military service and details about where he had served, in the event that she was entitled to survivor benefits. She sent away for his records and received back his DD Form 214 (Certificate of Release or Discharge from Active Duty) showing that he had been honorably discharged in 1968 for being medically unsuitable for duty before he even finished basic training.
We’ve seen this same scenario play out hundreds of times in the years that we’ve been in the stolen valor business. We’ve had to force family members remove their undeserving dearly departed from veteran cemeteries, we’ve had to force altered headstones when inaccuracies were involved. I remember when I called one of our partners once, he had just got off the phone with a widow who discovered that her recently-deceased husband wasn’t eligible for interment in a veteran cemetery.
I had the daughter of a friend who joined the Marine Corps and she recalled the stories that her father had told her of his derring-do as a Marine, so she asked us to get his FOIA for her. She discovered that he had never earned the Navy Cross or Purple Heart he had claimed – he had never heard a shot fired in anger. She had suspected, but the verification that he had lied crushed her and drove her further from her father’s arms.
The NYT advice columnist responds in part;
Hard as this would have been, it would have been better if you’d taken up your suspicions with your father while he was around to explain himself. He could have apologized; you could have forgiven him.
Should you reveal the truth now? Just as truthfulness matters in relationships with the living, understanding important moral facts about the dead is valuable as well. People who were close to him and have a memory to hold on to will be in this respect better off if you tell them the facts. Some will also, no doubt, be upset. (Your sister may remain in denial.) But that’s part of the proper emotional response to other people’s behavior. Not everything that feels bad is bad: Some pain is worth it.
And no, you don’t owe it to your father to treat this as “water under the bridge.” The dead can have an interest in our respecting their privacy. But he isn’t entitled to have his reputation protected after his death, because he was never entitled to that protection in the first place.
There is a lot to be said about correcting the historical record. To all of the valor thieves out there who lurk on these pages; fix your lies, especially with your families. You really don’t want their last memory of you to be a liar.
Category: Phony soldiers, Valor Vultures
Good post Jonn, though a bit surprising that the NYT got it right..
Holy sh!t – the freaking NYT Magazine actually making sense by advocating holding someone accountable for their past misdeeds? What’s next, lions and lambs lying down together peacefully?
The Millennia surely is at hand! (smile)
Great minds…
“Dogs and Cats living together…TOTAL HYSTERIA !!!”
-Peter Venkman, 1984 –
Does that mean we can hold the NYT responsible for all their lying bullshyt?
The world must be coming to an end. I’m in agreement with the New York Times magazine.
After my father died, I found out he had done more than I had ever heard from him. A much better memory.
Better to be known for understanding the truth than overstating.
… -understating- ….
Wow, the NYT got something right! What’s next, they admit that H. Wideload was the one colluding with Ivan and Vlad?
What is left of my family already knows what a lying piece of shit my brother is, he still has his present wife fooled, but I don’t think that will last for long if the VA ever puts him in prison for his lying bullshit! Jonn, keep up the great work that you do, you are my only hope of getting my brother put in prison where he belongs!
When Willie Sutton was asked why he robbed banks, he purportedly said “because that’s where the money is.” But more significantly, he robbed banks because there was money there – and MONEY HAS VALUE. That’s the key, the VALUE. It’s the same with stolen valor. The esteem that our nation and our communities have for those who have borne the burden of defending and protecting our way of life is something that people value, and right so. Someone who pretends a military past in order to receive that value is just like a bank robber – he is STEALING something that another person EARNED. It may seem harmless in the short run, and one could argue that if the only people that the faker ever told his imaginary tales of military heroism were his own friends and family, then it would be tempting to let bygones be bygones and let him take his fakery to the grave. But, just like pumping currency out of the treasury lowers the value of the bills already in circulation, the burgeoning phenomenon of people faking their military service in order to earn admiration and esteem that they don’t deserve has the effect of cheapening the well-deserved admiration and respect that real veterans have earned. After all, when Joe Civilian runs into a dozen fakey-fake Green Beret Ranger Sniper Force Recon SEALs, he’s not going to be impressed by a genuine veteran who may have just humped a ruck in peacetime, or turned wrenches at a remote base in Afghanistan, even though the REAL veteran is the one who made a REAL contribution to his country, while the fakers just flapped their gums. And not only that, every time one of these high profile fakers is revealed, it casts a cloud of doubt on those who have ACTUALLY served. (I’m imagining the personnel director interviewing a candidate for a mid-level job: “So, you were the Navy SEAL who killed Bin Laden, huh? That’s funny, so were the last 3 guys I interviewed for this position.”) “Victimless crime?” As John Wayne said, “Not Hardly!” Even if… Read more »
Well said!
I’m using this.
Dead on target.
But at least I didn’t say I was stealing it, right?
This article and this response are fantastic and put all of “this” into perspective. It’s a great counter point to the entertainment we so richly enjoy in reading about these clowns. Thank you both
How many Go Fund Me sites have we seen where family members requested donations for burial costs or payment of medical bills only to discover their love ones deceived them?
Here is another sad case where one wife pleaded for help through Go Fund Me for her husband, where he or someone else claimed he was a Vietnam POW (he wasn’t) and even a TV Station did a story on him with no retraction. The family was probably taken back or humilated when they tried to obtain benefits for his claims.
So sad for the family:
https://www.gofundme.com/23p4tkks
http://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/vietnam-vet-has-weeks-left-to-live-blames-va-for-stall-in-care
Forgot to add that the person mentioned in the Go Fund Me site is now deceased.
Spot on about what Stolen Valor does to a family, what sickens me are the ones who never stop, they as Don Shipley (SCPO, USN, Ret.) said in an interview “Some of these guys will take their lies with them all the way to the grave.”
When you see these things happen, you wonder why it’s even necessary to make false claims.
If someone thinks his position is too weak, or that his work is too inferior to pass whatever the “smell test” is without doing this, that’s part of the problem.
On 24 November 2014, Jonn posted a story about a Phony Vietnam POW name Bob Glass (Elmer Robert Glass), a Preacher from TN. Glass stated he had proof of his claims because he had a VA POW Card:
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=56615
Glass passed away this past February; it is obvious his family still believed his story, because his POW “status” is mentioned in his obit:
http://ligonbobo.com/bro-bob-curtis/
Wondering what happened when him family tried to collect benefits based on his claims…or if they did find out the truth, that they kept it shush-shush since he was a Preacher.
Sad. So sad. Another one who took his lies to the grave.
This is one of the major problems with the 22 suicides per day meme – poor reporting on death certificates as to deceased’s military/veteran status. From the study where the 22/day meme is derived:
“It is important to note that estimates of the number of Veterans who died from suicide are based on information reported on state death certificates and may be subject to reporting error. It is recommended that the estimated number of Veterans be interpreted with caution due to the use of data from a sample of states and existing evidence of uncertainty in Veteran identifiers on U.S. death certificates.”
The authors of the study recognize that there may be a goodly quantity of false reporting of military service. There are other limitations to the study. I was impressed that the study’s limitations are well laid out by the authors – not a lot of studies do this. The stated limitations clearly indicate that the 22/day meme needs to be taken with a grain of salt.
The other reason the “22 a day” meme needs to die is that the meme itself creates a false impression that there is a connection between the fact that a person was a veteran and the fact that they committed suicide.
If you said “every day 22 blue-eyed people commit suicide” or “every day 22 Hare Krishas commit suicide” then you would implicitly be linking the two things together, otherwise, why mention the fact that they have blue eyes or were hare krishnas?
It’s the same with the “22 a day” veteran meme. Even to the extent that it IS true (IOW to the extent that “X” number of veterans commit suicide each day) the fact that they were veterans usually has little if anything to do with the fact of suicide.
Just like the well meaning fools who assume that anybody who has a DD-214 from a wartime period must be suffering from PTSD, the “22 a day” meme reinforces the “veteran as victim” nonsense.
Every human being is a complex jigsaw puzzle of different experiences, and being a veteran is just ONE of those jigsaw pieces.
I see at least 5 or more a day from just active duty AF and Navy/ Marine OPREP and C4I reporting. It’s sad to see how young some of these troops are.
In June 2016, Jonn posted a story on TAH about Richard L. Carr, from Alton, IL who claimed to be a Vietnam POW and a PH recipient. Carr’s son posted on TAH that his father was a POW and did receive the PH:
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=66104
The local paper did a story on Carr with the same POW claims:
http://www.thetelegraph.com/news/83625/honor-flight-gives-alton-vet-possible-last-chance-to-see-memorial
Carr passed away in September 2017. His obituary states he was a Vietnam POW as well as receiving the PH:
http://www.altondailynews.com/mobile/obits/details.cfm?id=13719
Once again, so sad..and wondering if the family tried to collect benefits based on his claim of being a POW and a PH recepient…and how they felt when when they discovered the truth (especially the son who vouched for him).
In June 2016, Jonn posted a story on TAH about Richard L. Carr, from Alton, IL who claimed to be a Vietnam POW and a PH recipient. Carr’s son posted on TAH that his father was a POW and did receive the PH:
http://valorguardians.com/blog/?p=66104
The local paper did a story on Carr with the same POW claims:
http://www.thetelegraph.com/news/83625/honor-flight-gives-alton-vet-possible-last-chance-to-see-memorial
Carr passed away in September 2017. His obituary states he was a Vietnam POW as well as receiving the PH:
http://www.altondailynews.com/mobile/obits/details.cfm?id=13719
Once again, so sad..and wondering if the family tried to collect benefits based on his claim of being a POW and a PH recepient…and how they felt when when they discovered the truth (especially the son who vouched for him).
This man’s legacy will last forever as he shames his family from beyond the grave…..
An family annuity from six feet under.
I bet they love that investment…..
It is not a matter if he (she) was a hero or not, it is solely a matter that the imposter is claiming to have been there, done that, when I did it and he did not.
I slept in the filthy foxhole, I climbed down that cargo net, I squatted over that cathole, I ate cold chow for weeks on end and I had the shit scared outta me numerous times all the while this imposter was cosey and warm, safe and secure, petting his girl (and more), eating hot chow, taking hot showers daily. All in living comfort.
I did my service because I was/am proud to live in this country. The credit is mine to take not the imposter.
He is a theif and a liar. No more, no less.
I was medically discharged from the Navy right when I finished “A” school. I had been in the Navy for all of nine months. There were so many times when an overpowering desire to lie about who I was and what I had done, rather than face the honest truth; I didn’t make it.
Even all these years later (thirty of them pretty much), I still get embarrassed when my MIL will tell someone I was in the Navy. Yes, I was, and I was discharged through circumstances I’m not proud of, but to have any claim as a veteran? I take none.
These Valor thieves are insidious, morally deficient bastards who deserve no sympathy whatsoever. Funny how the only ones you ever hear about are the ones who are caught. Had they been truly sorrowful for their actions and words they would have come clean on their own. Just because you have died, it gives no dispensation of honesty to protect your dishonesty.
Oh, full disclosure; I once claimed I was EOD and it had to do with my discharge. I felt like such shit afterward that I owned up to my lie and never did so again. I still can feel the shame of that day when I thought about my actions.
(Sorry about my grammar, I try my best but I know it’s stilted, at best)
I saw nothing wrong with your grammar. You communicate better than some who comment here. Kudos to you for being man enough to own up to this one minor incident of embellishing. Every one of us has lied about something in our lives. Owning up to it without being caught at it is a sign of strong character where I come from. I had a 1SGT once when I was a young 2LT who asked me what I thought was the most important human character trait. I said, “intelligence.” When I had dinner with him almost 20 years later when he was the CSM for 6th Army HQ, I told him I wanted to change my answer to that question to sincerity with a large dose of honesty.
It’s estimated 75% of college students cheat at least once. When’s the stolen scholarship hammer going to fall? These people end up getting important jobs. It ends up hurting society because these people aren’t qualified for their jobs. They never had the intellectual capacity in the first place. They live a lie and their fantasy hurts us all.
Except for murderers and child abusers, there is nothing more despicable than lying phonies. They exploit their fellow citizens at every opportunity for their own benefit and aggrandizement.
These guys, they never learn.
To any/all future posers like this one reading this:
There’s a couple of very good reasons that combat veterans don’t share war stories with family.
The family won’t ‘get’/understand the story.
The family doesn’t really care in the grand scheme of things. If Grandpa was a Marine supply NCO, he is ‘Grandpa the Marine’. If Grandpa was a pipe hitting Marine Rifleman on the beach @ Oki, he’s still ‘Grandpa the Marine’ with the exception of teenage grandsons who hope to someday be a Marine.
Actual combat veterans tend to be leery of the dawning realization that ‘Dad killed people’. The family members lack the experience and context to properly judge and analyze that reality. Best to leave the combat stories in a box rarely opened, in the opinion of myself and no small # of others.
What’s better, at the (your) wake.
Grandpa worked 40 years at IBM and pull all his kids through university.
OR
Did you hear Grandpa was a phony Marine? I can’t believe it! He was always so nice ans sweet…
For very similar reasons, combat BTDTs don’t share war stories with anyone but their colleagues, to include family members. My Dad never said word 1 to me about combat in Vietnam until years after he knew I’d seen a certain Elephant for the 1st time. Even then, the discussion was about ‘now & then’ differences in gear, as opposed to specific engagements.
Think about it. Almost everybody doesn’t really care. So why lie?