Lisa McCombs and service dog problems
A number of you folks sent links to the story about former Army Captain Lisa McCombs and her service dog Jake and the problems they had getting home from Kansas. Fox News and the Army Times says it was October 27th a year ago.
According to the legal brief, airline personnel refused to let McCombs through security with her dog for two days in a row despite adding Jake, a chocolate Labrador Retriever, to her reservations and bringing several forms of valid documentation listed on American Airlines’ website.
With boarding passes in hand on Oct. 25, a Sunday evening, McCombs alleged, an agent approached her and asked, “Ummm, are you trying to fly with that?” while gesturing to the dog.
I’m not sure how therapeutic a dog is in these circumstances, but I always feel better with a dog in the room. It probably doesn’t help that every phony in the country have dogs that they call “service dogs” but are nothing more than a mutt with a vest. I’m sure McCombs is legit, and I’m sure there are people who are convinced that a dog makes their lives better, but the phonies aren’t helping.
Category: Veterans in the news
Sounds like some jackasses were having too much fun with their position of petty power to actually know their company policy. Hopefully they’ll get fired.
small correction, she is from Mississippi and she was attempting to fly home from Manhattan, KS. Nice to know the TSA folks closest to Ft. Riley are so empathetic.
What good is company policy when management and staff have no clue – and won’t even buy a vowel?
Company Policy…The last refuge of a scoundrel.
No, that</I) would be governmental bureaucratic policy.
Don’t be so sure about that, Graybeard. From what I’ve seen, large corporations can be just as bureaucratically boneheaded as government organizations.
AA “screwed the pooch” on this one. If she has hired a lawyer with a good background in ADA cases, AA will be taking it in the shorts in court.
I don’t know, there’s something….
The Foxnews story says McCombs wouldn’t comment and gave her lawyer’s info, but the lawyer wouldn’t comment either.
Just sayin’
Standard practice when pending litigation is involved.
Silence isn’t guilt.
None implied, Grunt. And you’re prolly right about SOP.
See Hondo’s comment below, I concur.
Regards.
Speaking as a dog person, I was about to offer McCombs a cheese platter to go with her whine until reading the details of what apparently went on. She flew with the mutt from Mississippi to Kansas with no problem, but got stranded trying to return home. The airline’s fault was in being arbitrary.
I’d also be the first to admit that there are places a dog probably has no business being, grocery stores and restaurants being near the top of the list. On the other hand, there are plenty of businesses where the presence of a dog shouldn’t be a big deal; it’s also true that a dog-friendly business tends to get more of my business than one that doesn’t.
The other day I took my truck in for an oil change, and of the six other people in the waiting room virtually every one had a kind word for my dog. What also seems true is that private dogs can become good public dogs only if they’re allowed to be around other people and other dogs.
I’m somewhat bothered by this – and I’m bothered by both sides.
AA indeed screwed the pooch here (yes, that’s an intentional pun). It does seem they were at best inconsistent and at worst were discriminatory.
But I’m also troubled by the fact that AA got in touch with the young lady afterwards to try and make amends, offering a full refund plus free international travel – and it appears she told them to get lost (see the Army Times article; the Fox link doesn’t mention that bit). Something about that just doesn’t look quite right to me, either.
It certainly has the odor of money-chasing, doesn’t it.
It could very well be that, having been treated this way, it is the Captain’s intention never to fly American Airlines again, so having a voucher for free travel would mean little to nothing.
Exactly. I mean, if a company pisses me off bad enough, they can just keep their freebie. If I won’t ever darken their door again, giving me something for free isn’t going to change my outlook on them.
Last time an airline sent me a voucher for having inconvenienced me, that voucher was transferable. As I recall I used it to buy a ticket for someone else.
A few years ago, near where I live, there was a handicapped guy who made a lucrative living by going around filing lawsuits against any business for the tiniest infraction of ADA compliance. For months, merchants in Morro Bay would dread seeing him roll down the sidewalk, and a couple of them had to go out of business because they couldn’t afford to come up to the new code.
So, is McCombs playing victim card casino? Personally, at least without additional evidence to the contrary, I’m not convinced she is. She might have gotten extremely pissed at the airline, and wants to send them a clear message about having petty tyrants leaving people stranded, with their dog, in an airport in Kansas. Although the airline apparently knew it screwed up by trying to make amends, that might have been a fair solution for McCombs, but doesn’t solve the problem of what happens the next time some nitwit ticket agent pulls the same stunt on somebody else.
I’m reminded of the film Falling Down from awhile back. It’s the one where Michael Douglas plays an out-of-work aerospace engineer who has a psychotic break while stuck in LA traffic. And all the rest of the film is about the engineer’s extreme reaction to the petty bullshit we all might have to face every day. You might not agree with the extent of the reaction, but can at least somewhat understand what triggers it.
I wouldn’t necessarily take the airline contacting her as an admission of guilt on their part. It’s also possible that she hadn’t done what AA requires to fly with an emotional support animal, but they were nonetheless willing to do something significant for her to prevent bad publicity and/or avoid legal bills from a suit they had a good chance of winning (but which would bring them even worse publicity either way it turned out). See my comment below.
As I said below: I have no idea what happened. But based on what’s know so far, I don’t think we can assume AA is completely at fault here.
Dunno. The airline at one level might have known to do the right thing, but ultimately is responsible for the actions of its employees. There was also the apparent matter of keeping McCombs in limbo for two days while she waited for somebody to figure it out.
Personally, I might have decided to ask the aircraft pilot what he wanted to do, and like to think he might have said, “Well… the mutt doesn’t fit the profile of a jihadist, and that vest doesn’t have any explosives, so put him on the bird and give him the co-pilot’s seat. I could use a change in the level of conversation…”
Perry:
See here: http://www.abc15.com/news/local-news/investigations/advocacy-group-files-another-batch-of-ada-lawsuits
This whole story will make your blood boil.
Just one small reminder, “If she was emotionally perfect there would be no need of a Service Dog”. Maybe that reminder will make her seemingly inconsistencies more consistent with her actions.
Semper Fi
The problem with “service” dogs is exactly the same as stolen valor, with the exception that there’s no checking for legitimate paper work with a service dog…
The ADA is great for bringing many issues to the forefront and offering protections, but as a dog is an unknown quantity it always made me wonder why it’s wrong to ask for some identification for a service dog. If the dog is legitimate all it would take is a simple ID that states the dog is a service dog and no one needs to know what service it provides.
If you need a service dog your service dog should have no issue getting anywhere you are going to be, however thanks to the liars among us everyone is suspicious when they see a supposed service dog because too many fucking liars claim their family pet is some kind of service dog when confronted with a dog somewhere it’s not supposed to be at the moment.
ID would solve this in a heartbeat…there’d be no dispute. It seems she did bring some documentation, but again if there was an official standard ID for service dogs there’d be nothing for the airlines to discuss and compliance would be required.
It appears this case sort of hinges on the policy of requiring two days prior approval…I won’t dispute that douchebags make douchebag decisions and I suspect American Airlines will find out that a douchebag employee can cost you a lot of money in a court setting…
It’s this sort of shit at the airport that really makes flying a rather giant pain in the ass all around.
VOV, the wife got one of our goldens certified as a therapy dog – not service dog – a huge difference. She has to have documentation from Therapy Dog International on file at all of the institutions that she visits with the dog.
I agree that TRUE service dogs should have documentation with them when working. And as they are always “on duty” they should always have it handy.
According to the excerpt from the article above, the Captain provided the necessary identification for her service dog, and the agents on the scene chose to ignore it in contravention of company policy.
Perhaps she did do what AA requies here. But perhaps not.
AA’s service animal and emotional support animal (ESA) policies can be found at the following link. I don’t think they’ve changed anytime recently. And their policies and documentation requirements are not identical for service animals and ESAs.
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/special-assistance/service-animals.jsp
Their policy specifically states that if an animal is too large it may need to be checked and travel in a kennel. Depending on the type of aircraft, that could have come into play here. I doubt it, but it’s a possibility.
Their policy also specifically requires different documentation for ESAs than service animals. It also further requires notification and submission of required documentation for ESAs to AA central reservations 48 hrs in advance of a flight.
AA’s policy for ESAs does say “before a flight” – not before embarking on a round-trip. A round-trip often includes flights separated by several days.
From the article’s description of the lady’s condition, I’m willing to bet the dog qualifies as an ESA, but not as a service animal. That means prior notification and submission of documentation would have been required.
My guess is that the lady possibly submitted her dog’s docs to AA central reservations as required for the outbound leg of her trip – but it’s also possible that the gate personnel at her origin airport gave her a pass, and she never submitted them at all. But I’d also guess it’s entirely possible she didn’t resubmit the docs 48 hrs prior to her return flight – or if the origin gate personnel gave her a pass, might never have submitted them at all to AA’s central reservations.
If either of those latter scenarios is the case – e.g., she didn’t resubmit the docs 48 hrs before her return flight, or the origin gate crew cut her a break and she’d never submitted them at all – then technically she didn’t do what AA required.
It’s also possible that she’d done exactly what the AA policy requires, but the AA clerks in Manhattan, KS, and DFW were simply being jerks. Dunno.
Hate to blow a major hole in your argument, but the return flight was the SAME DAY as her original flight. Seems logical one filing would cover both.
I have more sympathy for the AA folks in Dallas; their worst sin was assuming that anyone who is disabled would require a wheelchair. Manhattan? Not so much. Someone chose to draw a line, and as a company engaged in wooing the flying public, choosing to piss off a disabled veteran female with a cute puppy dog – about all they could have done additionally was to kick the dog or piss in iced tea on camera.
Depends. The originating terminal was near her home, where someone working there could have known her. If they “cut her a break” and let her board with her dog despite not having notified AA 48 hrs ahead of time (as AA policy clearly requires for ESAs), then it’s entirely possible that the crew working the return portion of the trip wouldn’t know that. It’s also quite possible that they’d also enforce company policy when she tried to return home.
I’m guessing that’s very likely what happened.
Hondo you are very much on the right track, you are just missing one small thing. Her dog is a service dog for her PTSD, not an ESA however if you look at the AA guidelines you linked in your first response the section says “emotional support or psychiatric service animals”. Her service dog is a psychiatric service dog so she has to follow the same rules as ESAs do regarding documentation and advance notice. Her lawsuit says she provided neither. The flight out let her go the return flight followed AA policy which is in line with federal law.
I’m well aware that AA considers ESAs and psychiatric service animals to be in the same category. Frankly, so do I; I consider the two terms functionally equivalent.
I simply didn’t feel like typing that whole mess (“emotional support animal or psychiatric service animal”) each time, and felt that using the acronym ESA and providing a link to the full policy was sufficient.
Hadn’t seen the lawsuit, so I didn’t know I was on-target. But I did think that what I posited was a distinct possibility, and no one else seemed to be considering it. So I thought I’d bring it up.
In air travel they are equivalent because the Air Carriers Access Act definition of service animal includes ESAs (those regulations are currently under review and may be changed soon). In public access covered by the ADA they are very different as psychiatric service dogs are covered while ESAs are not. You may already know this but to clarify for others that may read this.
She was also asked the nature of her disability. That’s illegal.
One person got aboard a Delta flight with a turkey earlier this year. Yes, a live turkey, claiming it was their service animal.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2016/01/15/someone-just-used-a-federal-law-to-bring-a-live-turkey-on-a-delta-flight/
Airlines are famous for having non-trained individuals as is TSA. Hell, they don’t have any common sense. I was in the airport several years ago in Miami and an old man was standing at the gate. The lady there told him he couldn’t get on with a pointy medal because it could be considered a weapon. Yeah, it was a Congressional Medal Of Honor. Her supervisor came over, took one horrified look and apologized out of his ass and chewed her a new one on the spot. Good thing because I was on my way to kicking some stupid ass and probably heading to jail.
This was the same airport that stopped me from flying with my Charlton Heston NRA Silver Bullet Keyring. I argued and the supervisor actually said “you might put it in a piece of rolled up paper and threaten people with it” I replied “how, by hitting them over the fucking head with it like a club you stupid asshole”? They ended up taking it. Dicks….
So Captain Need Bux says “she was humiliated last year when airline staff refused to let her fly home with the do.” Humiliated? Who knew before she went to the press? And when it was all forgotten about, she sued to ensure continued humiliation. Sorry. She’s an asshole.
Just once I would like to see one of these clowns sue for nominal damages or sue, make a stink, and then drop it. The reason is that every single one of their attys says “Justice…blah…blah…blah no one else should have to suffer what my client…blah…blah…blah…It’s not about the money…blah…blah…blah.” Bullshit. It’s all about the money. If it were not, there are other approaches that are more effective.
An attorney saying it’s not about the money? Ask him if he prevails, will he forego his slice of the pie? Dick. Of course it’s about the money.
May better heads prevail..
I’ve flown with American Airlines a few times while in the service. And they have always taken damn good care of me and other service members that I’ve seen WTF happened here ???
You people have got to be shitting me. Her inability to deal with her “feelings” entitle her to bring a puppy on a plane?
Strippers help me with my feelings, if a put a collar and a leash on a few of them, do they get to fly for free?
I have a suggestion, if your inability to deal with your “feelings” is so overwhelming…stay the fuck out of my way. If you can’t seem to muster the courage to leave your house without your puppy…stay home dumbass.
These people make me sick.
Hell, Dave, Kleenex will never make a buck with attitudes like yours. I would pay $5 just to learn how this “decorated combat veteran” caught a case of the Free cheese.
Emotional Support Animals are not the same as a Service Animal. ESA’S are not covered by the Americans with Disabilities Act. You cannot just take an ESA everywhere like you can a Service Dogs.
I have limited access to read this story, but seeing comments about the ADA, and conflicting information about the dog in question being an ESA Vs. Service Dog.
They are treated very differently under the law.
Air travel access isn’t covered by the ADA; it’s covered by a different Federal law (Air Carrier Access Act). FAA regs implement that law.
Those FAA regs currently allow airlines to require both 48 hrs advance notice and certain documentation for ESAs and psychiatric service animals to travel by air.
http://civilrights.findlaw.com/discrimination/transportation-and-the-americans-with-disabilities-act-ada.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Air_Carrier_Access_Act
http://servicedogcentral.org/content/ESA-flying
This is the actual McCombs V. American Airlines / Envoy Air filing
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3181881-McCombs-v-American-Airlines-Envoy-Air.html
Hope McCombs reems them
I’m calling it the “Lisa MCombs Boo F’n Hoo Fund.”
I’m wondering how they plan to proceed under the ADA, when the controlling Federal law for handicapped people flying on commercial air is the Air Carrier Access Act – and when current FAA regs implementing the Air Carrier Access Act in fact allow AA to require precisely the prior notification and documentation the AA agents in Manhattan, KS, were requiring.
Yeah, the lawsuit makes it seem as if the ground personnel in Manhattan were jerks. (How accurate that account actually is may be another story.) But the suit also glosses over the fact that the AA reps were doing precisely what current FAA regs permits AA to do: require 48 hrs advance notice and specified documentation before allowing an ESA/psychiatric service animal on a commercial airline flight instead of considering it a pet.
It’s a service dog not an ESA dog
Read my earlier comment of 10:00am today. FAA regs implementing the Air Carrier Access Act – not the ADA – govern air travel by handicapped persons and their service/ESA animals. And those rules are a bit different than ADA requirements.
In fact, it appears that under those FAA rules airlines can indeed (1) require 48 hrs advance notice for travel with both ESAs or psychiatric support animals, and (2) require documentation for those claiming an animal is either an ESA or a psychiatric support animal.
I’m sorry the young lady was inconvenienced. But it appears that she may well not have done what was required in order to fly with her pooch as a psychiatric service animal vice as a pet.