Collins proposes gun deal
Fox News reports that Susan Collins, a member of the Republican party and who represents Maine in the Senate, has proposed a bill that fulfills the whining Democrats’ cry for “do something” in the wake of the Orlando terrorist attack on a nightclub. She proposes offering the Democrats a chance to vote on a bill that restricts folks on terrorist watch-lists and no-fly lists from buying a gun and it offers those erroneously posted on those lists a way to restore their rights;
The government’s overall terrorist watch list has 1 million people on it. Collins’ measure would let federal authorities bar gun sales to two narrower groups: the no-fly list with 81,000 people and the selectee list with 28,000 people. Selectees can fly after unusually intensive screening.
All but a combined total of around 2,800 people on those lists are foreigners, who are mostly unable to purchase firearms in the U.S.
Under Collins’ proposal, Americans denied guns could appeal their rejections to federal courts. The FBI would be notified if someone who’s been on the broader terrorist watch list in the past five years buys a gun, but could not stop the purchase.
Due process is always a good idea.
Of course, Dingy Harry Reid approves of the bi-partisan attempt at a compromise, but he still won’t endorse the deal, because it has Barely-a-Republican Collins’ name on it. Chuck Schumer thinks it’s an indication that the NRA losing it’s grip on the Senate GOP. Actually, there’s not much that the NRA could not like about the bill. I doubt Collins was ever in the NRA’s grip anyway.
But, of course, the bill will fail because Democrats need a gun issue in November.
Category: Politics
How easy (and expensive) will it be for someone wrongly denied a gun purchase to have the decision changed? How long will it take? What happens if the judge hearing the case is an anti-gun nut who’s decided to use their position to push an adversary?
Oh come on. A Judge would never push their own political position. They always make decisions based purely on the law….
Wanna good deal on a bridge, MSG Eric? Got one for sale cheap – and in a great location, too!
Throw up a few toll booths and finance your retirement! (smile)
Getting dimes from the Le Petomane Thruway sounds like a bigger check than the pension I’d be getting.
Hondo, I think MSG Eric forgot the /sarc tag.
Still . . . he’s probably right. (smile)
Still wondering if people who make negative comments about this regime in blogs are getting their name on some list? tHERe ARE SO MANY,NOW, THAT MAYBE IT IS AN IMPOSSIBILITY TO GET EVERYONE…….
I’d hit it.
With my rifle stock.
What wouldn’t you hit?
I dunno…got any recent nekkid pics of Janet Reno?
No, but as I recall Caitlyn Jenner was on the cover of Vanity Fair recently . . . . (smile)
SOP…nothing with a dick and nothing genotypically male regardless of phenotype.
So, in other words:
“If it has or had a dong, humpin’ it’s just wrong.”
Just pulling yer chain, amigo. You’ve made your position on that clear previously. (smile)
Hillary was supposedly born female…
I’d hit that.
Well, she WAS cute when she was much younger.
Now – well, she’s trying too hard to not look like Grandma.
well…I’m a grandfather, so GILFs are open season.
Well don’t worry, if she dies before you hit it? Chelsea is looking more and more like her everyday.
I’d hit Amy Carter first. Chelsea reminds me of Mr. Ed.
I have some of Walter Brennan
“Sorry, it doesn’t look good.”
Helen Thomas.
Difficult; she’s been dead and buried for nearly two years.
..and she was cremated.
An improvement, then
You act like you wouldn’t find a way….
I bet you’d hit Hitlery Cankles without a paper bag over its head.
See above. (smile)
I wouldn’t touch that with a 10 foot pole. Not that poles grow to be that tall.
Yeah, with a mag full of M855 maybe…
“…because Democrats need a gun issue in November.”
They’ll be suspiciously quiet about it in states like Pennsylvania though (outside of Philadelphia), don’t want to alienate those blue collar swing state voters.
Actually, I think it’s a smooth move. D@mned-o-crats want to broadcast that Repubs are in the control of the EvilNRA.
Here is a chance to give them what they /say/ they want… vote on it.
Vote it down? Lost your talking point.
The election is almost five months away. The fervor to “do something” is already dying in all but the most rabid antigun circles.
Clinton’s words, however, will certainly resonate in this cycle. And a LOT of people are going to see this as one more reason never to let that craven power hungry bitch anywhere near the White House.
But I bet the D@amn-o-crats are counting on (planning for?) another shooting before election day, so they can fan the flames.
Hardly surprised that Collins is the RINO to push this. Back a few years ago before Sen. Snowe retired, I referred to the two of them as Obama’s comfort women. Their voting records are to the left of a couple of Democrat Senators, if that’s possible.
But again, here’s common sense legislation that has been demanded, and of course, the Democrats will vote it down because, by God, that’s THEIR issue this election cycle.
And as I said before, go ahead, Democrats–go ahead and pick that as the hill you want to die on. Apparently 1994 wasn’t enough of a lesson for you.
Wow. 1 million people in the terrorist watch list.
How many of those are muslims?
I bet most of that million dudes ain’t muslims. The religion of peace and all that.
The real question is how many of those are on the list for no good reason and no legitimate due process in challenging or finding out why.
dunno about the ‘no good reason’ but the ‘no due process’ – all of ’em. Even Kennedy, who personally KNEW the agency heads, took years to get off the list.
I have read that the reason he got on the list had nothing to do with his water driving skills or alcohol consumption, but apparently someone with a suspicious past back in Ireand had a similar name.
Even more important, how many of them are 4-month-old babies and toddlers? Or old farts in wheelchairs?
Ted Kennedy was on the “no fly” list. Maybe he should have been on the “no buy” Oldsmobile list….
Nothing says, “chutzpah” like Teddy the Swimmer. Before he died, he had a Portuguese Water Dog named–I shit you not–Splash.
If that ain’t balls….
Well, no one ever accused Ted of having either common sense or good taste.
Teddy’s motto was “wine ’em dine ’em dink ’em and dunk ’em.
Putting Muslims on the terror watch list is Racist.
The government should see a judge to prove my guilt, not me spending the time and money to go before a judge to prove my innocence.
This is not a good compromise bill.
Exactly.
Couldn’t agree more, nbc!
But if you’re a veteran, you most likely vote conservative, so you’re guilty until you prove yourself innocent.
If this passes it will be immediately challenged because there is no due process in being on the watch list.
The secrecy of the list and the secrecy of evidence for justifying why someone is on the prevents due process.
It is hard to imagine SCOTUS deciding that denying a constitutional right to someone on the list if there is no due process in being on the list is constitutional.
So the most likely outcome is that it would be decided in favor of people on the list wishing to purchase. Which would set a precedent further protecting gun rights, The language of which could be used in future cases.
The less likely outcome is SCOTUS ruling that you can be banned from gun ownership, a constitutional right, without due process. This precedent would change the very nature of the remnants of our democracy. If that were the decision potentially any constitutional right could be revoked without due process based on the precedent this case set.
Seems to me many of the same arguments were trotted out when the Patriot Act and no-fly list were originally brought up, and ‘national security’ was played as the trump card (no election pun intended)
Yep. That is exactly how the “unlikely” outcome would occur.
Maybe “unlikely” is too strong.
Less likely?
Hopefully.
I have a few questions:
1) Was Omar Mateen on the Terrorist Watch List, No-Fly List or Selectee List?
2) Was Syed Farook on the Terrorist Watch List, No-Fly List or Selectee List?
3) Was Adam Lanza or his mother on the Terrorist Watch List, No-Fly List or Selectee List?
4) Was James Holmes on the Terrorist Watch List, No-Fly List or Selectee List?
I think the answer to that is
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) No
4) No
It’s tricky to treat terrorism as warfare instead of crime. I’m still looking for where the line is drawn without violating a suspect’s Constitutional Rights.
(obviously, Constitutional Rights don’t necessarily apply to people who are not citizens)
According to the LA Times, Mateen had been on Terrorist Watch List at one time, but was taken off and not on it at the time he bought the rifle he used in the Orlando shootings.
I’ve found no report that Farook was on the Terrorist Watch List, though his father is now.
Nope. The Orlando shooter was “cleared” and AFAIK the California shooter was never on a list.
Fuck all this gun control, political, ass kissing of one side and then the other bullshit because some lunatic from some flavor of the month kills a bunch of folks. Now, I am truly sorry for the families of those killed and wounded but lunatics will never be stopped, ever. Not by gun control at the very least. IT IS NOT THE GUNS! We could do it British style, where home invasion and burglary are cottage industries and as long as you politely steal someone’s shit and close the door on your way out, it’s okay. The thing is, guns are in every civilized society and in the ones that don’t allow their citizens to own them, they are all owned by the criminals. As many times as the ass hole and I do mean worthless, shit on a stick, ass hole, in the White House points to other nations as examples of “civilized gun control”, along with his Democrat minions they never seem to get that. So, had we been like Britain or France and the ass hole in Orlando couldn’t have gotten a black market gun, he would have bombed the place as has happened in those and every European nation. Fuck all this crap! There will never in my lifetime be any reasonable gun control as they call it. They will not get their shit together so dipshits like the one in Orlando can’t buy a weapon, being on a FBI watch list you know. So I am back to a hard stance of molon labe, you government sons of bitches! You want mine? Great, when I am out of ammo defending my Constitutional right to own them. The outcry that something must be done is always the same. Tell them what truly should be done, which is, deport all those Muslims ass holes on any watch list including their local supermarket’s, super saver coupon list, and they shriek in fear about civil rights. What about the civil rights of those enjoying a night at a club? Tell their families why Muslims on a terror watch list… Read more »
Keep it up.
Couldn’t have gotten a gun in Europe? Hardly.
The terrorist bastard who shot up the train in France last August had an AKM.
Orlando shooter wasn’t on any list. Jeebus people. Do some basic research. He was investigated. Twice. Cleared. Twice. Mmmkay?
It’s bad enough I have to keep explaining that to my prog friends.
Okay, giving you your point then. But if he was investigated twice and “cleared” twice tells me someone didn’t do they job in checking his social media, family, etc. I mean, considering he did, after all, do what he did. Someone, missed a great opportunity for an ARCOM on that investigation. Just saying. Also, I understand my venting is not an excuse for incorrect information but easy with the prog stuff. We are all friends here I hope.
And before you say it, yes I know the FBI does not issue the ARCOM. Sarcasm there.
Wasn’t going to reference the ARCOM crack. Got it. 🙂
Please note I used quotes around “cleared” in my previous comment. I should have added them here as well but didn’t.
Yes, one should ask how a person can be investigated twice yet still be considered safe.
Apologies if I appeared to compare you to a prog, but some of them have been saying that Exact. Same. Thing. as an excuse to bash conservatives over voting down these idiotic measures. Apparently the concept of due process has fallen by the wayside. Ironic given their unyielding support of the ACLU until now.
Gun control to me is using both hands. These assholes can FUCK OFF!
Prohibition really worked, didn’t it?
Anyone remember that? Here’s a list of things that happened because of Prohibition.
1 – the rise of organized crime – thanks, Al Capone!
2 – speakeasies and bathtub gun
3 – money laundering for things like prostitution and extortion under the guise of protection/insurance
4 – tax evasion (yes, that’s how they nabbed Al Capone)
5 – drive-by shootings in Chicago
6 – the St. Valentine’s Day massacre in Chicago in a garage on Clark Street
7 – more police corruption than ever
8 – small holdup gangs like Ma Barker, Bonnie & Clyde, Dillinger
There’s more, but that’s a small sample. I’m sure New York had a list, too.
Yeah, Prohibition really worked, didn’t it? As I recall, that amendment was repealed.
We never learn. Everything on that list has a “Drug War” equivalent.
People always find a black market for what they want and that market usually ends up being more deadly, more ruinous than the original thing the “Top Men” who know what’s best for us peons were trying to ban in the first place.
Absolutely.
If you hadn’t mentioned Al Capone and St Valentine’s Day massacre, I would’ve thought you were talking about present day Chicago.
Not much has changed since then.
Same game, except automatic weapons aren’t as readily available. So let’s ban automatic weapons. And murder. And organized crime
If you made organized crime illegal in Chicago, what jobs would the elected officials have available to do?
No one’s prohibiting anything. These apes can’t even ban cigarettes and drive-thru windows, items we know are 100% detrimental to the health of users. And they want to prohibit items that may cause harm/death at a rate of … 1 per 200,000? 1 per 1 million? If Democrats and “concerned citizens” were really concerned, they would address real lifetakers.
No due process to be put on a watch list. So let me get this straight, if I ended up on a watch list, I have to jump through government hoops (We all know how easy that would be) to beg to exercise a constitutional right.
Also lets not pretend for one moment that this list won’t expand, or one day be used to control political “Undesirables”.
” I have to jump through government hoops”
Guilty until proven innocent.
A small percentage of the watch list names belong to Americans. If the FBI needs additional tools or personnel to thoroughly investigate Americans with terrorist sympathies, then give them the tools and personnel. That’s all. A terrorist who wants to kill will kill, whether or not he acquires a firearm legally. Besides, the number of terrorists who have killed Americans in the United States using firearms is puny. Although that is no consolation to the victims or their families, the number is ridiculously small.
I work with these lists on a daily basis. This will not stand. It’s unconstitutional, plain and simple.
I am with informing the FBI if any of these people buy guns, especially the ones on the No-Fly List.
If they are too dangerous to buy a firearm, why are they walking the streets?
Ask
ICECIS that question. For non-citizens, they’re the ones approving immigrant visas and “green cards”.ICE handles interior enforcement. CIS deals with benefits. Two different agencies.
Thanks. Fixed above.
No worries. When the Department of Homeland Security was created in 2003 and the Immigration and Naturalization Service was abolished, the functions (INS) got split up into separate new agencies.
The legacy INS Inspector Officer Corps and the Border Patrol Officer Corps were merged with the Customs Service to form Customs and Border Protection (CBP) which is responsible for border enforcement.
Legacy INS Special Agents, legacy Customs Special Agents (now HSI) and the legacy Deportion Officer Corps (now ERO) were merged to form Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) which responsible for investigations and interior enforcemement.
The legacy Adjudications Officers, Asylum Officers and Refugee Officers were assigned to Citizenship and Immigration Services (CIS) which handles immigration benefits.
I’ve worked for all of them: INS, CBP, ICE and CIS and I can see how keeping it all straight would be difficult.
Speaking from perosnal experience I think we were actually much more efficient and got more accomplished pre-DHS.
Uh, can I buy a vowel Pat?
I’m a contractor, working for DHS/CBP. I was 24 years active duty Army, deployed damn near everywhere the Army went 1987-2012, and I’ve never seen such a
bureaucratic clusterfuck as what I see at the DHS level. DHS was supposed to eliminate the “stove pipe” intel problems, what we accomplished was a bigger larger staff heavy machine that exists to support itself. Nothing more
The bill sounds good in theory, but I can foresee some potential issues.
1) Several years ago (2009 if I recall) the DHS put out a letter stating that returning OIF/OEF vets were going on a watch list as we had the training and the potential for anger against the government to commit violent criminal acts.
I also purchased “Mein Kampf” and “The Communist Manifesto” (as well as other similar works as I like to be educated on subjects I am going to argue against. I’m sure that put me on some kind of list as well.
I’m going to be super pissed if I go to buy a gun one day and it gets denied because of something asinine like that.
2) How long until a government agency starts adding people to a watch list because of their political views (IRS targeting conservative groups for audit anyone?)?
3) How long until the liberal left starts adding everyone to a watch list as a backdoor to banning gun sales?
So like I said, it sounds good in theory, but the law of unintended consequences is likely to bite us in the ass in the end.
Yep..and it was head cheese. Janet Napolitano. The dikeiest looking bitch ever seen.
Good ol’ Janet. As AZ Gov, appeared to take on the feds to improve border security. After becoming head of DHS under his majesty Obama, declared the border to be safer than ever. Not a total lie. Imagine yourself in a chair, with 5 men holding a gun to your head. 1 walks away, taking his gun with him. You are now “safer than ever”. But are you really safe?
And yet the bimbo voted NO on Senate Amendment 4749:
“[T]he Attorney General may delay the transfer of the firearm or explosive for a period not to exceed 3 business days and file an emergency petition in a court of competent jurisdiction to prevent the transfer of the firearm or explosive, and such emergency petition and subsequent hearing shall receive the highest possible priority on the docket of the court of competent jurisdiction and be subject to the Classified Information Procedures Act (18 U.S.C. App.);
And the roll call:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=114&session=2&vote=00105
“Under Collins’ proposal, Americans denied guns could appeal their rejections to federal courts.”
Fantastic. Due process goes bye-bye. Guilty till proven innocent.