Troops still struggle with an unclear ROE

| May 10, 2016

Reuters reports that the investigation into the destruction of a hospital in Kunduz last year highlights the problem that we all know exists, but the Pentagon doesn’t want to talk about – the rules of engagement that the soldiers use to make the on-the-scene decisions while bullets are flying by them are more murky than ever before. The classic problem of soldiers asking for permission to fight from politicians;

The Kunduz report indicates at least some U.S. troops have been sent into battle with questions unanswered.

The Green Beret complained that failure to provide clear guidance represented “moral cowardice”, and that political leaders intentionally keep the mission vague.

That allows them to “reap the rewards of success without facing the responsibility of failure,” he added.

Soldiers pleaded for “clearer guidance” and more clarification of overly complicated rules, according to investigators.

The strength of the American military has always been the ability of the soldiers on the ground to make independent decisions based of the changing situation on the ground. All of our enemies throughout history have complained about how the actions of unit commanders from squad to Brigade-size units are not easily predicted. Armed only with the “commander’s intent”, leaders have always achieved the desired outcome with minimum supervision. However, that is harder to achieve since the politicians have the ability to communicate directly with troops in contact from the safety of the cushy office far from the sounds of battle.

A thousand books and memoirs have communicated soldiers’ frustration with the nanny politicians and their micromanagement of the battlefield. In World War II, President Roosevelt would have to make a plane trip to communicate his desires to General Eisenhower, but 20 years later, President Johnson was picking targets in the basement of the White House for individual bombing missions. During Desert Storm, President Bush turned General Schwartzkopf loose on Saddam Hussein with his guidance and now we’re back to the White approving every bullet fired against terrorists who aren’t hamstrung by similar restrictions.

In the heat of the battle, lines can be blurred, and the problem is not exclusive to Afghanistan: questions have arisen over the role of U.S. troops in Iraq after a U.S. Navy SEAL was killed by Islamic State this month.

“‘How far do you want to go?’ is not a proper response to ‘How far do you want us to go?'” one special forces member told investigators in a report into the U.S. air strikes on a hospital in Kunduz that killed 42 medical staff, patients and caretakers.

It’s typical of politicians who don’t trust their military to accomplish the over-arching political goals. It’s also typical of politicians who have no coherent strategy to communicate to their military subordinates.

Category: Politics

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Veritas Omnia Vincit

It’s also typical of guys who never truly served their nation. A life in the hallowed halls of DC politics is often called a life of service, but it’s a far different form of service than all of us who at one time or another put on our uniforms and did what we promised.

In DC service often means serving only yourself and the ambition you have to get further up the political ladder and set up your future off the efforts of other. Like any true parasite politicians must by nature be cautious and risk averse. Consequently they are exactly the wrong people to lead beyond stating what the overall goals to any conflict of arms ought to be for our nation.

Shit happens in combat, many times that shit means dead civilians and aide workers. It doesn’t make it less tragic, but any conflict hoping to avoid all civilian casualties is a dream, and only a dream.

This is why I keep saying, turn them loose to kill the enemy or get them the fuck out of there because anything else just gets Americans killed while achieving nothing of value.

The Other Whitey

A life spent enjoying the many perks of office (exclusive hotels, yacht clubs, private jets, hot & cold running interns, etc) is NOT a “life of service.”

A life of service is a life spent patrolling the streets keeping scumbags away from our kids. Writing a blank check to the city, county, state, or nation you serve for any amount up to and including your life to protect people from human predators.

A life of service is a life spent riding a fire engine, crew bus, or helitack bird, responding to fires, medical emergencies, and all other things people call 911 for at all hours of the day and night. Writing a blank check to the city, county, state, or nation you serve for any amount up to and including your life to keep people from harm.

A life of service is a life spent on a haze-gray warship. A life split between underfunded barracks and excercise grounds. A life spent on a flight line trying not to go deaf from the roar of jet engines. Of being a stranger to your children as they grow up while you’re thousands of miles away. A life that could drop you into harm’s way in a faraway land on the ass end of nowhere at any given time. Writing a blank check to the nation you serve for any amount up to and including your life to uphold and defend the Constitution of the United States, safeguarding against all enemies, foreign and domestic.

Don’t tell me that some prick who scammed his way through one of the many (San Francisco and Chicago come to mind, but there are plenty of others) political machines so he could get free blowjobs on tap and wouldn’t have to slum it in the First Class section of the plane anymore has “served.”

UpNorth

^^^^^If only I could upvote this a thousand times.

desert

When the mush headed politicians start complaining about how much PTSD is costing their budget, they need to look in the mirrors and understand it is ‘THEIR’ rules of engagement are what is driving those men and women up a wall….get politicians out of EVERYTHING and watch the improvements!!

Ex-PH2

What else do you expect from someone who has never done anything in his life except sponge off of other people?

LiRight

“This is why I keep saying, turn them loose to kill the enemy or get them the fuck out of there because anything else just gets Americans killed while achieving nothing of value.” – Veritas Omnia Vincit

Some of the guys here will remember the “free fire zones” we had….if it walked on two feet it was dead. I suggest we start with that as a new ROE policy.

SFC D

A prostitute also leads a life of service, and not much differently than the assclowns in DC.

Skippy

Like ^^^^^^^

The Other Whitey

At least the prostitute is honest about the service offered and gives you what you pay for. Comparing them to politicians is insulting to whores.

FatCircles0311

That doctors without boarders bullshit in a war zone aiding the enemy thinking they’ll escape consequences for their actions is bullshit. If you’re in the war zone you’re fair game. If you’re aiding the enemy which they routinely do expect to be wrecked sooner or later. I can’t stand these NGOs that insert themselves like this then think they can demand answers. Americans should be demanding that shit fuck organization get the fuck out or suffer more consequences.

2/17 Air Cav

The Russians hit a Syrian hospital in February. There was much hand wringing and gnashing of teeth, not to mebtion audble sobbing, in Moscow. Putin launched an investigation and notified the UN that he would not rest until the errant pilot and that pilots superiors were brought to justice. Or not. The truth is that the Russians denied it and told the media to go screw themselves. Done. End of story. Shit happens.

The Other Whitey

Comrade Vlad the Honey Badger at his finest

nousdefions

Sherman’s Rules of Engagement

1. Kill people
2. Break things
3. Come home safely
4. If three cannot be accomplished, take as many bastards with you as you can.

A Proud Infidel®™

“I have been told that Politics is this world’s second oldest profession. I have also noticed many times that it bears a striking resemblance to the first.” – Ronald Reagan

Richard

Politicians create or cause to be created ROE that protect them from political risk. What a load of shit. It seems to me that the people who have to live – and die – under those ROE are taking a bigger risk. Losing an election is not as bad as getting your ass shot off. In my opinion this is one f’ed up thing about our political system. That and radios.

Remember those pictures of the WH staff watching the Bin Laden raid in real time? Did they think that this is a video game?