Odierno; coalition needs 50k troops to defeat ISIS
Former Army Chief of Staff, retired General Ray Odierno, during a panel discussion, moderated by Fox News, told the assemblage that it would take 50,000 troops to defeat ISIS. Of course, he says that those troops don’t necessarily need to be US troops, but that the coalition needs to be led by the US;
Odierno, who argued for leaving 20,000 troops in Iraq but met resistance from several senior Obama administration officials as well as then Iraqi President Nouri al-Maliki, said the decision to pull out became a self-inflicted wound.
The withdrawal made it harder, if not impossible, for the U.S. government to independently assess what was happening on the ground, at a time when the alienation of the Sunni population fueled the rise of ISIS.
“We lost what we call our human intelligence network on the ground,” he said. “I mean we used to have a pretty significant human intelligence operation. So as we pulled out, our U.S. military, we lose it. So we have to depend on Iraqis, which they collect intelligence, but they do it a little bit differently than we do and they look for different things.”
I don’t see any nation in the world volunteering enough soldiers to fight on the ground to get us to a 50,000 number. I certainly don’t see this administration being able to negotiate with our allies to get us anywhere near 50,000. They’ve proven themselves to be unreliable in the war against terrorists. They can’t even admit there’s a war going on, how are they going to fight it?
The retired general continued to sound the alarm about military cuts, saying the army has “lost capability” at a time when the likelihood of responding to threats on five continents is not hypothetical.
Well, the Obama Administration is betting that those chickens won’t come home to roost until February.
Thanks to Chief Tango for the link.
Category: Politics, Terror War
Again, where was he a few years ago when all of this started and he was in a position to make a difference?
Took the words right out of my mouth… guess he was “afraid” to speak out to da preezy of the 57 steezy about this subject.
Yup, I just don’t understand.
Isn’t a 4 star’s retirement pay the same if she resigns in protest?
Actually, no. I belive that for an officer to resign is to forfeit retirement.
Man served just a tad short of 40 years… think his retirement was secure. He didn’t exactly get dismissed (see Hondo’s prior posts about that)
While they’re routinely approved (unless the individual is facing possible disciplinary action), technically voluntary officer retirements in the Army are at the discretion of the service secretary (20-30 years) or the POTUS (30+). See 10 USC 3911 and 10 USC 3918. In contrast, enlisted personnel appear to have an absolute legal entitlement to retirement after 30 years of service (10 USC 3917). Only officers with 40+ years of service appear to have an absolute legal entitlement to retire (10 USC 3924).
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/subtitle-B/part-II/chapter-367
Although I’ve not heard of one being outright refused, technically I suppose the SECARMY or POTUS could block an officer’s voluntary retirement based on the above provisions of Federal law if the officer has <40 years of service. Not sure what would happen then - particularly if the officer affected later exceed limits for age or service in their current grade.
Perhaps one of our mil lawyer commenters could help out here?
I’m thinking no matter what he says we are about 50,000 light using his math as well…
Using my math we’d be light by about 900,000. Instead of fucking around it’s time to head out for a large invasion and kill everything in front of our troops…curfew at sunset and anyone outside shot first and questioned later….or don’t bother entangling us again, because it will be nothing more than another long waste of time, money, and personnel for zero gain.
We’ve played the silly fucktard game for 15 years now…either just fucking walk away and admit we were about as naive and ill prepared as a nation could be in the prosecution of the previous disaster, or go in big, heavy and make it our satellite and stop playing at peacemaker….
The best way to make peace is when all your enemies are fucking dead…
But, but, but, but…that’s not FAIR!!!!!
VOV,
My thinking too. 50K, 150K, or 950K, it won’t matter unless the ROEs are short, sweet, and simple.
“If it moves outside the perimeter, kill it. Destroy everything until it’s rubble. Then make the rubble bounce.”
50,000 troops?
What good is that if we don’t first have a Commander in Chief that has a set of balls?
That’s right. The only balls he has are in his golf bag. He does act a little ballsy when he lights the White House up in rainbow colors, he tells business owners that they “didn’t build that themselves” and he tells the American public that we need to open our borders to every Tom, Dick and Harry out there because that’s the American way.
I guess it also takes some balls to be able to look people in the eye and lie to them without any shame.
But he is pretty tough. He and a few of his closest little helpers have single handedly hurt the strongest military on the planet. No other military, anywhere, ha been able to do that.
50,000? I didn’t think the Special Forces community had that many people assigned to them.
After all, combat troops aren’t supposed to be used in the fight against the JV team. The president said so.
//sarc off//
There are probably well in excess of 100K posers who claim to be SF/SEAL/Ranger/etc.
Send their lying asses.
Free-fire zones, anyone? Has a nice ring to it.
‘They’ve proven themselves to be unreliable’ was all you needed to say. They’ve never been anything else, have they?
Either you take it seriously and you’re in it to win it, or you bail out and go home and let them sort it out.
Someone please tell me when the morons in Washington are going to learn to say ‘N-O, NO’.
On July 1, 1862 President Abraham Lincoln called for volunteers to defeat the insurrectionists threating our nation.
America responded with this song:
“We Are Coming, Father Abraham “
We are coming, Father Abraham, 300,000 more,
From Mississippi’s winding stream and from New England’s shore.
We leave our plows and workshops, our wives and children dear,
With hearts too full for utterance, with but a silent tear.
We dare not look behind us but steadfastly before.
We are coming, Father Abraham, 300,000 more!
On July 1, 1862 President Abraham Lincoln called for volunteers*…
*and indentured servants coming off of boats from Ireland.
Of course “indentured servants” sounds much better than “slaves”.
A day late and a dollar short, General. Go back to that leather and oak library of yours and get to work on that autobiography your publisher has paid you up front for. And
^^5^&
Yep. Him and Leon and the rest of them that sold out their brothers so that they could play nice with the jack ass in office should not get to say a damn thing NOW. Too chicken shit to say it when it mattered and it would’ve done some good, who cares what you think now. “F” him and his plush, leather horse he rode in on.
I wonder if I can get a signed copy?
He should get back to his book signing tour or speaking tour. It’s almost always about the money … follow the money. Maybe he should have voted with his feel while AD. I don’t recall the exact particulars, but I seem to remember than at least one and perhaps several of the Joint Chiefs had thought of submitting their resignations to Johnson during the Vietnam War because they were unhappy with Johnson’s constant meddling, thinking he knew more than did those with boots on the ground. Hindsight is a nearly exact science, and I really don’t care to hear what this or that flag officer shouda, couda, wouda done. At this point, it’s mostly verbal pablum.
I thought he was working for JP Morgan now – time to go back to counting the money.
I love “Oldierno’s ” progressive way of thinking.
Its “all about me”.
Odierno is a tough, no nonsense leader, and he says what he means and he does what he says..
He is also a complete idiot. Always was, always will be. He didn’t understand what was going on in Iraq when he went in as a division commander, and he didn’t understand it when he was the four star running the whole thing. Then he became the CSA and didn’t understand the world the Army was facing. He really needs to just shut up. He’s done enough damage.
50,000 coalition troops would just spend American money and get no results against ISIS. 50,000 American troops would destroy every trace of ISIS in about a month. Of course, most of ISIS would simply melt away, and show up in Jordan or Yemen.
Now, if we put SF backed up by conventional forces on the ground in places where ISIS might want to run before we bring the scunion we might actually get somewhere. In other words, when ISIS sympathizers and operators run to Halfassistan to set up a new Emirate, there is already an ODA with lots of local support and a BCT with tanks waiting for them.
Meanwhile the Marines are at the breaking point thanks to eight years of this SOB.
But hey, let’s commit them to another operating theater. They don’t need equipment or aircraft that actually work, in fact, let’s just waste billions on a plane no one wants, doesn’t work and isn’t as good as what we have.
http://therightscoop.com/fox-news-exclusive-the-us-marines-are-at-their-breaking-point/
Some of this is the administrations fault, but much of it is the service’s fault. The Marines do a pretty good job of portraying themselves as doing more with less, but the fact is that pound for pound they are an incredibly expensive force.
In the past few years the Marines have made some really dumb decisions about aviation, which is one of the more expensive items in their budget- remember, they have advanced fighters, complicated VSTOL aircraft, the V-22, advanced attack helps, and some of the oldest helicopters in the US inventory to maintain.
To cut those costs, the The Marines cut back on flight hours in recent years. That’s fine, but that causes your crews to get rusty, and the aircraft still have to get fixed. There have been several reports out lately about the fact that Marine aviation is in a crisis due to lack of maintenance and crew proficiency causing a high accident rate.
Part of this was budget cutbacks, true, but part of it was dumb moves like this:
http://nation.time.com/2013/06/04/marines-22-2-billion-mistake/
http://www.wired.com/2011/12/osprey-costs-soar/
http://ericpalmerblog.blogspot.com/2015/05/usmc-air-drops-ball-on-aircraft.html
http://pilotonline.com/news/military/internal-navy-email-safety-of-helicopters-in-question/article_f66fb525-0f34-5334-8fde-3b3841891765.html
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/the-marines-corps-ch-53e-sea-stallion-fleet-is-in-inexc-1761340070
Don’t get me started on the Osprey. Anyone with mechanical or engineering experience could have foreseen serious problems with that one once they saw the term “5000PSI” next to “aircraft hydraulic system”.
Luckily it does well in a dusty environment, though :). Can’t resist poking the bear.
When it works, it’s a capable aircraft. Until it’s grounded for maintenance issues, of course.
However, when you can’t afford to purchase enough of them, or can’t keep them flying because they keep breaking, it doesn’t make much difference how capable it is.
Bingo:
This is going to piss off all the Marines, but here it is:
Unlike the Army, the size of the Marine Corps is actually dictated in law (3 divisions and air wing). This made perfect sense when the USMC was expeditionary in nature, geared towards light to mid level conflict (mainly in the Pacific and North Atlantic), and there was a 20 or even 10 division Army forward stationed and fully engaged in Europe, Korea, and the Pacific.
However, a few years back the Marines decided to try to become more Army like and more SOF like. You can’t be both, and both are expensive- one in terms of scale, one in terms of quality. The Marines made the bid to become more involved in not one but two counterinsurgencies in land locked countries. They did a great job, but…
Forget the nonsense that Marines win battles and the Army wins doors, or the Marines kick in the door and the Army occupies. That simply is not now nor ever was true. The niche of the Marine Corps was expeditionary warfare- short duration campaigns against a moderate threat.
When the mission takes more than about 30 days or is against any heavy threat it makes less and less sense to have the Marines do it.
The Marines are simply not configured for sustained combat against a peer competitor- fighting insurgents or a lightly armored enemy is fine, but no Marine MEB has anywhere near the protected firepower and tactical mobility of an Army ABCT or SBCT.
In addition, since the Marines are so light in the ass (support realm) and designed to be supported from the sea, the other services, chiefly the Army and Air Force, pay a huge overhead bill for the continuous presence of any Marine force over the size of about a MEB.
But, we did it for over ten years. As a result, the Marine Corps is broken- even more so than the Army in many respects.
The Marines should return to their roots, and all will be well again.