The future of Army Airborne
The Army Times has a rather long discussion concerning the future of Army Airborne. Apparently there’s some “Big Parachute” lobby to keep the 82d Airborne Division as a light, quickly deployable force that can respond to any trouble in the world within hours. Of course, during the cost-cutting fervor at the Pentagon, there is Big Nasty Leg lobby that says that Airborne forces are outdated;
MacGregor does not see significant tactical need for a mass combat jump of infantry forces. He says even basic air defense renders an airborne attack suicidal.
“Airborne requires fixed-wing airlift. These forces cannot ‘get in under the radar’ against a major theater power’s defenses,” the unapologetically blunt West Point graduate said. “As seen repeatedly in Eastern Ukraine, anything flying low and slow, especially in the large numbers that are needed to move a militarily-useful conventional ground force, is toast in a real war.”
But leaders say the training and resources invested are worth it from a capability and deterrence standpoint, even before accounting for intangibles.
“Today the application of a large-scale airborne assault is low probability, but it’s high consequence if we’re not absolutely prepared to do it and do it right,” said Brig. Gen. Brian Winski, deputy commanding general of the 82nd Airborne Division.
I’ll grant the naysayers that there haven’t been any mass-tactical drop of paratroopers on the scale of World War II in recent history, however the paratroopers have been used in every conflict (with the exception of Desert Storm) on a smaller scale. To take the tool of a Division-sized air-deliverable unit out of planners’ toolbox leaves big gaps. It’s better to have them trained and ready that to need them and have none.
If the Army wants to save money, they should stop training people who have no intention of ever jumping with a TO&E airborne unit. I’ll bet there are three-times as many 5-jump-chumps as there are people on jump status. When was the last time you saw a second lieutenant who wasn’t wearing jump wings? They’re few and far between. In my career, I had one leg platoon leader – but he was still Ranger qualified.
Yeah, if the Army wants to cut waste, don’t cut from the actual force, cut from the badge hunters who need a new shiny thing on their uniform. Cut out things that don’t actually make the US Army a lethal force that is feared by bad guys around the world.
Category: Army News
. . . .West Point graduate. . .
Ring knocker. That says it all for me. Someone do us all a favor and
throttle that Good Idea Fairy now.
I think we need different eyes on where to cut. I have never heard that these ribbon Hunters and their ilk are ever on the chopping block. It is like Flight pay. Some Captain or Admiral Joy riding to keep their 800.00 a month flight pay. When they would never ever be flying Sorties.
There is a simple solution for most of this and I proposed it years ago when I was the Installation Training Officer at Fort Benning. Badges and tabs cannot be worn on any Army uniform until said soldier has served 24 months in a position coded for Airborne, Pathfinder, Ranger, etc…
Takes the Badge Hunters out of the pool. Saves money and reduces student/trainer ratios for more effective training.
The E-9 mafia shot it down because of the value these badges serve for re-enlistment.
Too bad because even Basic Airborne wings would mean something special.
That not dissimilar to how the Coast Guard handles is Cutterman Insignia (the USCG equivalent of the Surface Warfare Insignia of the Navy), the award is “temporary” until you have 5 years of service at sea.
COB6, do you not agree that the presence of jump wings and Ranger tabs on NCO’s and officers in leg combat arms units has some morale and leadership value? I spent all my time in the 101st and 82d back in the 50’s and 60’s so I have no way of knowing other than basic and AIT cadre wearing those badges seemed to stand out above their straight leg peers.
Well there ya go thinking again COB6.
You gotta knock that off…..
I do remember someone writing an Article last year that to save money the DOD should shut all the Academies. I wonder how Big Mac feels about that cost cutting measure.
I can see a need for tactical/operational Airborne units who might need to jump for specific missions. I don’t see the need to maintain the 18th ABC or bloated support organizations on jump status because of who they support.
Air assets are becoming less available (look at the drawdown of the lift assets assigned to Bragg). The guys in the 18th ABC are going to start increasing the hours on fewer aircraft just to keep getting the extra cash. Those are hours that can be used supporting real missions.
A lot of the mission the 130s have/had at Bragg has been transferred to C-17 crews on 24 hour alert who can be at Bragg within 1-2 hours from the go signal. They may have fewer aircraft at Bragg, but it won’t increase the hours on the birds up there.
From what I’ve heard, the ABN units at Bragg are already being told that there aren’t enough fixed wing assets to meet training requirements, so the units are shifting their YTPs and trying to get rotary wing to support jumps required to maintain proficiency.
Not sure what they’re being told at Bragg, I can only speak to the C-17 tasking to support XVIII ABN and it’s subordinate organizations.
It was the 82nd Airborne in route to Haiti 1994 that brought about the surrender of the government. Yes we were turned around in flight and retuned to base but just the word we were on the way defeated the bad guys.
That was my almost combat jump.
On a side story we suited up the next day for the jump again. And a lot of grunts and combat arms guys hade been replaced by staff REMFS just hoping for a combat jump with no mission.
I could have sworn it was the 25,000 MNF troops that were hours from landing on the island nation that caused Cedras to cede power back to Aristide.
I remember that. It wasn’t until you were airborne that Cedras decided to back out. Of course, he was also told that the 10th Mountain was offshore and prepared to air assault in, while the rest of the division was loaded up at Griffiss AFB waiting for the word.
I bet you a nickel we passed each other in the air. I ended up based with the 82nd Sheridan guys in Port-au-Prince. Cockiest guys I ever met. Parachuted tanks for a living for Christ sake.
I was in the next Bde to jump into Haiti [4/325AIR], we got the stand down on Green Ramp as we were getting chutes.
Fuk legs.
Simple solution. Re-engineer and upgrade the HU1Y series. Cheap/ reliable and efficient. Make the manufacturer provide maintainence and inspection. Train them along the Texican border. Hey, if they want to parachute in….. go ahead.
Proud to be a paratrooper but embarrassed that a few of my peers still love to show off their mustard stains from Panama. I have a hard time calling a Brigade sized operation with the Division Commander and staff and the Corps Commander and staff executed piece meal hours after the Rangers landed on the same drop zone a “combat” jump!
Seems West Point could be a great place to cut some costs. ROTC seems to be doing a fine job of spitting out 2LTs. Eliminate West Point, that is 4,000 cadets that our tax dollars won’t be supporting.
It cost $300,000.00+ to produce one Academy Graduate. It cost the Army $9000.00 to commission me. For which the Army got 26 years of service.
I have never understood why XVIII CORPS is on jump status. That would save a substantial amount. I agree that big airborne operations are never going to happen again. The largest usable airborne force is probably no larger than a BN. However, the Army airborne political party will never allow this to change.
XVIII Corps is the tip of the iceberg. I can make a much stronger argument to cut jump slots in the special operations community. There is almost no reason why anyone at SOCOM HQ should be collecting jump pay.
MGB, didn’t your mama teach you to NEVER say NEVER? Sure as you do, it will come back to bite you in the butt.
I agree that the likelihood of a corps-sized airborne operation is remote, but I would NEVER rule it out completely.
Heh…
If I understand correctly, only a very small portion of the XVIII Corps HQ and support units are on jump status. Everyone else wears the beret and the tab, but they are not, strictly speaking, paratroopers. That’s the way it was when I was there in the 90’s and I assume the number of jump slots has probably even gotten smaller since then.
Quite a bit of the corps is not on jump status. 3rd ID, 10th Mountain, and I’m not sure about the 101st.
If I’m not mistaken, they took the 101st Pathfinder unit off of jump status last year – they were the last unit in the 101st on jump status.
Marines next? Haven’t been a whole lot of amphib landings recently. /sarc
Too true, look at Afghanistan. From what I’ve seen they have never even considered, doing a landing there. /LOL~Sarc
As for the current tech, never forget its always advancing. Just need to wait for the rail-gun deliverable troop. Or just load them like bombs on a B-2.
Combat jumps into hostile territory, but blocking jumps like we had in Iraq, still seem like a great asset.
I would love to get back to doing what we were meant to do, small scale brush fires and crisis point interventions and floating around on big boats looking pretty and spreading good ‘ole American “goodwill”.
#LiboPortsMatter
#PACRIM
Well, I know of one in 1966 when my unit, the 327th Airborne Infantry was loaded aboard an LST at Phan Rang and boated up the coast to Tuy Hoa.
As we were approaching the beach, the sailors took up positions in the bow, armed with 45’s and Springfield 30.06’s. When they dropped the ramp, the enemy was there in full force: old mam-sans with their beer baskets, bar girls, hucksters of every stripe and of course, throngs of grinning kids with their barking dogs.
The racket caused by our beach landing was enormous but fortunately, we took no casualties.
“Casualties” probably showed up at sick call a few days later with “The Drip.” 😀
The threat of a US Marine landing kept Hussein distracted on the coast in the weeks leading up to the Ground War in Desert Storm.
It really is a fine article which covers every aspect of the issue. I’m partial to the balls factor myself and I don’t mind even a tad that some soldier acquired a badge and that’s that.
The same argument can be made about the Marine Corps amphibious assault capabilities.
Those are two capabilities, airborne and amphibious assault, that you can’t quickly create from scratch when needed.
Take those two capabilities out of strategic planner’s kit bag and we’ll lose any credibility and capability we have to conduct forced entry operations anywhere in the world rapidly.
We are currently the only nation on earth that can put a Brigade size plus, combined arms task force, anywhere we want on the planet in a matter of hours. That’s no small thing.
Are we really prepared to give up that capability?
Ok, I’ll bite.
When was the last time a soldier engaged an enemy with a pistol? Get rid of the M9.
When was the last time a soldier engaged an enemy in unarmed combat? Get rid of the combatives program.
When was the last time a soldier ran 2 miles in combat? Get rid of the APFT.
When was the last time a soldier actually managed to go on and have a successful career after getting caught on a drug urinalysis test? Get rid of the ASAP. Just kick the guy out and save millions from having to pay all those administrators, counsellors and bureaucrats.
When was the last time we used an M1A1 against an enemy with armor units? Get rid of the lesser effective half of the Maneuver branch.
Get rid of Air Assault school. It’s just a badge, operational air mobile units should be training members to do real world helicopter missions.
Why do we have 40mm grenade launchers? When was the last time the ROE permitted a grunt to actually employ it?
Why do we sink millions of dollars into weapon systems research? Name me one time that an M4 or M9 has catastrophically failed in the hands of its operator, in a situation that resulted in a noticeable decrease in that units effective firepower. What we have is good enough.
Why spend more money on a next generation night vision device? We already have PVS-14’s and PSQ-20’s. Stop wasting money on fancy shit like LRAS or PAS-13’s. Waste of money.
Since we’re getting rid of dumbass tankers and their expensive bomb magnets, lets get rid of our own anti-armor capabilities. No more TOW missiles for all you D Co cats. Everyone can get a basic load of cheap, mass-produced RKG-13’s.
Someone angered the SL, I’m going to go hide, I mean, take my team and go do hip-pocket training
And turn off my phone
and have my guys do the same.
Hopefully he calms down before COB formation.
In regards to the hand-to-hand; didn’t a Marine earn a Navy Cross for beating an insurgent to death with his own machine gun?
It receives next to no press here in the US, but the French have conducted multiple combat jumps in Africa in recent years (at least 4 last year alone).
It’s a capability worth investing in. That being said, I have a hard time training and keeping on jump status folks that don’t add to the initial fight in the first 24 hrs of hitting the drop zone.
Once again today’s threat is getting looked at, not tomorrow’s. Our military serves primarily as a deterent.
Let’s just do away with all of our nuke forces too. They’re expensive and won’t be used either.
We’ll just rename the DOD “Task Force Smith”.
Written by a POG LEG. Grenada, Panama, Iraq, Afghanistan… Haiti’s dictator capitulated when he found out that the 82d was on its way to land on his head, ahead of a larger force that was to come in after the fact.
Airborne Operations can be undertaken in almost any location. It will rapidly put boots on the ground that can be used to oust a tin pot dictator, or seize airfields and other key infrastructure ahead of a larger heavier force.
Is it dangerous? Yup, it sure is. But so isn’t being an infantryman in a leg unit, or a tanker, artilleryman, etc… We have seen it all too often where we have lost Soldiers in training accidents. Those numbers are hardly ever reported on, but they are high and do not happen exclusively in Airborne Units.
Definitely cut the number of badge hunters going to BAC. Unless you are going to an Airborne Unit, the Army does not need a legion of 5 jump chumps.
If anything, BAC should be made harder, and the Airborne should be a harder more intense undertaking overall.
P.S. Any 5 jump chumps offended by that, how many 4187’s did you submit to get assigned to an Airborne Unit? Otherwise, that is what you are. Doesn’t make you a bad person, just not a Paratrooper.
All things being equal, I just really fuckin hate Legs.
Yup!
Don’t say that to the next Leg Finance Clerk you come across unless you want to enter the “NPD Zone.”/snark
My mama was a leg but I let it slide.
How about get rid of the Airborne so we can buy one set of tires for an F35?
Ha!
They want to get rid of Airborne because it can’t survive a war with a tier one enemy. They want to get rid of the A10 because it can’t survive etc….. yet we haven’t FOUGHT a well trained tier one opponent damn near in my lifetime – and I’m a Korean War baby. They apparently haven’t caught on to the flip side of Rummy’s (bullshit) comment – you can’t fight the war you want to, you can only fight the war you’ve got. And most of our supposed enemies today (ISIS, the African Islamist mobs) are not exactly Russia or China-level enemies
Doesn’t this topic come up every time we have a drawdown?
To me there are reasons to have paratroopers that go beyond the actual mass-tac into combat.
From a standpoint of deterrence, I think it’s worth demonstrating to the bad guys/potential bad guys of the world that there is literally no place on the planet we can’t reach you.
I also think there is value in having the training spread out among the force, and I think it bolsters morale and gives confidence to newer/younger troops.
Lots of civilians (including my dear wife) make a big deal about having made one parachute jump (and hers was a “tandem jump” so all she really had to do was be there and let someone else do all the work.)
OTOH Every soldier you see with jump wings, even if they never serve a day on jump status, has done over 5 x more than that.
Its like the dim witted cutting of the Armored Cavalry Regiments and Division Cavalry Squadrons. Yea, you can make the case that they are not needed, but you won’t realize you need them back until its to late.
It’s like your local fire department; You don’t them until you need them.
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I’m a very butthurt PV5 with 5 jumps…and I hate the Infantry God for making me just one nut shy of a real man. All kidding aside, yeah BAC is abused by assholes to get a shinny badge, and some people wear a uniform to [insert shitty POG-ass job that you can learn in an afternoon] so they feel good about themselves. Is everybody pissed now?
Good.
Now what if I told you it didn’t matter?
All that matters is that you enjoy what you do so long as it’s a function. And the only function of the military and badges and skills training is to fuck shit the fuck up until it’s fucked.
Man I miss the Infantry.
82d Airborne is a strategic asset. Just like a nuclear weapon or an aircraft carrier. You can use them as a show of force. You need to have the school in place and ready to go for people heading to Airborne slots. But you just can’t justify the school going year round for the relatively small numbers involved in that pool. And you still have to run the school for all components of DOD. I had 20 Marines, more than 100+ West Point Cadets and maybe the same number of West Pointers in my class with an AF pilot on his way to the HALO school in my stick. You need Army Airborne (Basic Course) to go to HALO School. I think it was also a serious confidence builder for the young Privates, NCO’s, Cadets and Midshipman to actually see 50% of a group drop out. So leaving the school open to anyone is a good deal. In other words, you need the other bodies as cannon fodder. I’m an Ordnance (Maintenance) officer, I asked to be in the Infantry, and I got stuck in maintenance. I volunteered for an Airborne billet and didn’t get it. So no opportunity for me to go. I also asked for a Ranger School billet when I was first commissioned, (God, was I young and dumb…But no, I didn’t get that either). I begged and grovelled for the airborne slot. I’m a 5-jump chump. It took me 3 years of begging, but I went as a promotable 1st LT, right after my advanced course. I wasn’t chasing a badge, I was fed up with being in the army and being exposed to so much BS, that I needed 3 weeks of turning my brain off and beating my face doing push-ups. I also have an uncle who was sentenced to be in what was turned into SF in the late 1950’s…He told me that he would only talk to me because I was his nephew and that he was embarrassed because I was a dirty nasty leg. And he meant it. – As it… Read more »
I suspect that the Air Force is behind this. The Air Force will pull out all the stops to safeguard its niche missions.
An example:
Excluding the Air Force One mission, USAF has a fleet of executive transport aircraft with no other purpose than Point A to Point B airlift of GOs, SES types, and the occasional politician. On an annual basis, The total flying hour cost for these flights probably exceeds the flight costs of missions in support of airdrops.
John
Jonn, you had a PL who was Ranger-qualified but not Airborne-qualified? I didn’t think that was even possible. It’s not now.