This guarding recruiting offices won’t end well
While I applaud the spirit behind these folks lining up to protect recruiting offices from terrorist attacks, it’s poor substitute for trained personnel, you know, like the recruiters themselves. But this negligent discharge happened in Lancaster, Ohio, according to TV10.
Lancaster Police tell 10TV 28-year-old Christopher Reed fired an AR-15 rifle while attempting to clear the ammunition from the weapon at the Military Recruiting Center on River Valley Boulevard Thursday afternoon.
The bullet struck the ground and no one was injured.
Reed was cited for accidental discharge in city limits. His gun was confiscated until a court hearing next week.
In response, U.S. Properties Group – which owns the strip mall where the recruiting center is located – requested Lancaster Police “escort all armed civilians from our property.”
According to Fox News, General Odierno claimed to them that the Army is considering arming their recruiters. Stars & Stripes says that the incoming Commandant of the Marine Corps considers that solution “most extreme” and that it could have unintended consequences.
Well, apparently, those civilian folks standing out there with their guns could have unintended consequences, too.
Category: Big Pentagon
I agree completely. From the first reports of these armed citizens stationing themselves outside of recruiting offices, I said it was a kind gesture, but overall a very bad idea. The next attack is not likely to happen in the next few weeks. It will be 6 months from now, a year from now, etc. Will these armed civilians still be guarding recruiting offices a year from now? Not likely. It seems to me that their heart is in the right place, but their motives, deep down, are ultimately selfish whether they realize it or not. They are wanting to be seen. They are similar to the radical open carry groups that insist on slinging long guns as they sit down to have a burrito. Eventually, when the news cameras move on to the next new and exciting subject, so will these do-gooders realize that no one is seeing them anymore. Whatever else it is they do in life will beckon, and they will go home. But the recruiters will still be there, still working, and still unprotected. That is when the next attack will happen. And the vicious cycle will repeat. Unless there is a major change in policy concerning armed military personnel, but I’m not holding my breath on that.
Well, you’re absolutely right. But I don’t think anyone believes armed volunteers provide a permanent solution, or that they’re really accomplishing anything other than a form of protest against government neglect and inaction. If they are effective at all, it’s a stop-gap and nothing more. It’s pretty sad when civilians have to protect military personal the government won’t allow to protect themselves.
I disagree. I don’t think “their heart is in the right place”. I think they are attention mongers like the knucklehead that carried the AR into the airport terminal. They are using their right to carry to make a point and grab some attention. You could accomplish the same thing without shoving it in the media’s face.
This will end up with more negligent discharges and other silliness and someone is going to get hurt which will only serve to inflame the “big scary black gun” crowd.
There’s a point to making it visible. And they aren’t in the media’s face, they are where the recruiters are. The media is also there. If they want to give a show of support for the recruiters, what do you want them to do, wait for the media to go away? You have no idea what’s in their hearts and minds.
This is precisely what I was saying earlier in the week when people jumped my ass about not being respectful of these people wanting to stand guard at these recruitment centers. The task is done…awareness has been raised…the buttholes in Congress will now have to do something since it appears command won’t/can’t. Go home, people.
You just need to be smarter than the gun…
Makes me wonder how many of these self appointed guardians have visited recruiters in the past and are vets.
Not gonna say it, not gonna say it.
Yes I am -told ya so.
Now, how long til a bad guy shows up under the guise of a protector…
Plus, most recruiting offices are leased/rented. Doesn’t matter what military leadership eventually says. If the property OWNERS don’t want guns on their property, it ain’t gonna happen.
A couple of my friends did this on Monday. One is a CCW instructor and the other is a former 0311. Both were armed with their pistols only and just “hung out” in front of the station.
How do you shoot off anything clearing it? I will never understand, it is a very easy procedure. Here is an idea, don’t pull the trigger and maybe keep your finger away from it.
Christopher Reed is an idiot who, because he wanted to be a showboat, has just done a lot of damage to the “cause” he and others undertook.
To me, this is one of those issues where no one is wrong, whatever their view. I have no doubt that there are show boaters among the self appointed guardians and I have no doubt that others are pulling guard duty as a sign of need for the soft targets to be armed and to be their proxies in the mean time.
Joe Rice, one of our phonies from last week is guarding a recruiting station in Josephine County according to their local news.
I reported that to the News Station. So I am sure they will take his bullshit down now.
Just about any minute now…….
Well then they have nothing to worry about with an experienced ex soldier like himself out there
Not sure arming recruiters is the solution either. Wait til some dummy forgets and takes it on HS grounds. Or If they are carrying personal weapons, I can already see the dick measuring contests on which is better 9mm or .45. Don’t forget all the haters from other units that aren’t allowed to carry! They be waiting for someone to screw up
Obviously, leaving recruiters and other military personnel in exposed positions without arms or other security isn’t going to work. The only alternative is the opposite – arms and security. There isn’t a third choice because our enemies aren’t willing to negotiate on the matter. You’re either prepared to meet a threat, or you’re not.
It kinda looks like this is another one size just doesn’t fit all. What works one place may or may not work somewhere else.
Like so many others, am sorta holding my breath for bad things to happen. Meanwhile, there are hundreds of locations where nothing bad happened today. Reminds me of all those scary guns owned by law abiding people which killed no one today.
The guys milling around recruiting stations here are getting a lot of local support and all seem to be well behaved and fairly articulate.
I think that you guys are wrong. You want Big Army or Big Marines to do something and they won’t but you won’t accept a partial or imperfect solution done by individuals. What I hear from you is, “only the government can fix this” and “only the government can do this right”. Who disarmed the recruiters in the first place? You want trained competent people out there. You want perfect and when some private or petty officer screws up you will be all over him. Well I want to be taller and better looking and that’s not happening. You want somebody standing post, there aren’t enough cops, the military doesn’t have the dollars, the president doesn’t believe in it, “Oh Dear Me, No” doesn’t believe in it — it isn’t going to happen unless they get forced into it. If they get forced into it, there will be more exceptions than the tax code. You accuse the guys standing post of doing it for the pictures in the paper. I guess I am an optimist, but I suspect that a lot of them – more than half – are doing it to protect the recruiters. If those guys are such dirtbags and you are so pure of heart, eye of the eagle and all that, and you see a threat to recruiters then what are you doing about it? I hear one idea – arm the recruiters. Is that all you got? Did you notice that it wasn’t the recruiters who got shot? Yeah I know about the Marine who was shot at the recruiting station – the point stands. Civilians standing post is not a perfect solution – you get no argument from me on that. Sticking a round in the dirt is proof of that. Some of them are posers, you have seen them and I believe you. But they aren’t all posers and they aren’t all trying to get their pictures in the paper. I am glad that someone is trying to do something useful. It is a new thing and I don’t know what to think… Read more »
Generally people are going to agree with John because they like what he has to say and it may be their same opinion as well, which is why they come to this website.
With that said, I think recruiters should be armed, it is the Armed forces, the fact that the enemy is picking service members and military installations as easy target is IMO an embarrassment to the military and this country. I think that the civilians standing guard outside right now (for the most part) have their hearts in the right place, but the military should not be relying on civilians or the police for protection from events like this. If the enemy is bringing the war to our home (which they have been for a very long time) then the situation needs to be treated like a war in our home, not on an incident to incident basis. We should have the ability to kill the enemy in our country just like if we were deployed in another country, and until that happens these homegrown terrorist scumbags will just keep pulling the same shit.
The military has been all “Be alert. The terror threat against military personnel is real and growing.” And then what? All being “alert” will do for you in many cases is permit you to realize what hit you just before you die.
I think the people standing guard outside of the Recruiting Offices will fade out. Just like when we had those people who were standing outside of elementary schools. Give it a week and these people will fade away and we will be back to where we were
Recruiting stations and reserve centers are known soft targets. Lift the weapon restrictions for those trained. Not everyone will carry, but the fact that they may be armed will shift the bad guys elsewhere. Couple this with some additional security based on location and the problem is mostly solved.
Volunteer guards are not able to cover every location, and interest will fade over time. It’ll never be possible to fully secure every military target, but changing policies and some additional security will work to reduce the threat.
This guarding fad is popular around my neck of the woods. The answer to guns isn’t more guns.
Then why do police carry guns? What do you think would happen to an army that showed up for a battle without its weapons?
Sometimes it is the only correct answer.
“The answer to guns isn’t more guns.”
Then what IS the answer, smart guy? Because I sure as hell know that if someone is trying to shoot me that a gun is a hell of a lot better defense that bumper sticker platitudes.
Ok, I’m old school so don’t bust my balls. Shouldn’t Recruiting Stations be open and inviting? Isn’t their purpose to lure young studs and wenches in and sell them on the good that a military career has to offer?
Give me the above. How then, in today’s Muzzie world, are the recruiters able to protect themselves? Duh: being able to concealed carry is the main one.
Bubbas/Bubbet’s out front is BS, self aggrandizing. Just MHO.
So, you’re going to pretend that NDs aren’t caused by trained military and police personnel? Maybe less likely, but don’t yank my chain.
Follow-up:
http://bearingarms.com/navy-recruiter-suffers-negligent-handgun-discharge-georgia/
Back to something I stated earlier.
Who owns the stripmalls and office space most recruiting offices are in? It ain’t Uncle Sam.
What do the owners and their insurance companies think about armed service-members occupying their property?
This isn’t going to be an easy fix…
Here’s a thought, and it may be kinda out there – if a property owner doesn’t want firearms on their property, then don’t go there armed. Would imagine that there are plenty of property owners who would have no objection whatever to having the extra security on their property.
What part of that needs fixing?
I suppose they could go old school and make the recruiters get checked out and carry service pistols like the MP’s do but then what are the ROE? Recruiters are in Fed buildings, schools, job fairs etc. Could actually be a Boone for recruiting and create new coolness though. I still think DADT is the best policy. When I was recruiting everyone was strapped, but nobody talked about it. If someone did something stupid, that was thier ass.
Don’t know what happened to my original comment but I just feel that this whole civilian protecting recruiting offices will pass in the next week or so. Once the media gets tired of it and moves to the latest and greatest story. Remember after the school shooting when we had people posting up in front of the schools? That faded out and I think in quick time so will this
Yup. No ND’s in the military….
Letting troops have gun won’t end well.
The elitism on this board is absurd. I know those fatty dingdong civilians aren’t high speed low drag delta like this board, but millions still manage to have no ND every day.
Stupid question time:
If thee young feller was there to protect why then was he clearing his weapon on the sidewalk?
Keep the bugger hook off the bang switch!
These people are morons! PERIOD!
Yep, this guy acting stupid proves that everyone who acts stupid is a moron.
Or something.
Maybe if they arm the Recruiters, the Recruiting Substation SNCOICs won’t be dicks to the Recruiters, and lay off the abusive behavior towards the service members that got Shanghaid into recruiting and dropped into the middle of Bumfuck, ND. Then it ends up like this: http://m.bismarcktribune.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/marine-recruiter-accused-of-starting-fire-at-bismarck-recruiting-station/article_c8c4ac28-78b8-11e3-bea3-001a4bcf887a.html?mobile_touch=true. Been there, but didn’t do that.
After the Connecticutt school shooting, how many stories were there about people, especially parents, standing armed guard near schools? Lots. Are they doing that now? Anywhere? These ‘citizen guardian’ episodes are a reaction to something, on the supposition that a copy cat crime/event was going to happen. Some cities put police cars at or near recruiting stations for the same reason. I know the digging into this shooter’s behavior is underway, but it appears to me that he chose what he knew was unguarded, or soft targets, that were easier to hit than a school. He probably knew ahead of time that the logistics center had unguarded entrances. He was most likely angry over something we’ll never know about, and looking for some place to unleash his anger. The military was his target. I said in my guest post that you can be a success and make something out of your life, or be a chump and blame others for your failures. I think that’s what happened with this loser. This shoot-em-up was the result. Except that military locations were his targets and he had apparently gone radical on his own, how is this really any different from a drive-by shooting in a bad neighborhood? For all we know, he may have been looking for suicide by military/cop. Was there any chatter about ISIS praising this jackass? I didn’t see it anywhere, but I may have missed it. The slackerish ‘let’s all get along’ crap for the military is everywhere, and we are all soft targets. Everything we take for granted is under fire. We citizens shouldn’t be standing watch at recruiting offices, and I agree with PintoNag when she said put them all down a hallway, not right out front. Put some bulletproof glass in the windows, too. Have a panic button alarm system or something that will get people out the emergency door quickly. Yes, arm the recruiters for self-defense. Above all else, stop taking for granted that we are safe from harm by angry, self-radicalized people acting alone or in small groups. If we didn’t learn that… Read more »
I’m sure these folks’ hearts were in the right place, but I’ve hung out on gun ranges long enough to see the little things, the things that come from good people buying a gun and training themselves to shoot it. There are plenty of places in the country where that is perfectly legal. Some of them go on to become experts in their own right; most are lucky to hit the target they’re aiming at, and yet they show up for things like this, confident they know what they’re doing. They don’t. And all they do is take a bad situation and make it worse, make it more dangerous. They need to go home before they hurt themselves or someone else.