The “Prissy Holly” caper
Several of you have contacted us about this woman whose pen name is “Prissy Holly” but whose real name is Captain Lyndsay Faith Lowery. She’s actually a Signal Corps officer in the 75th Training Command in Colorado. But, in her nightime job she’s “Prissy Holly” at Mad World News. She wrote this missive a few days ago;
Folks got upset when she said that she had commanded infantry troops and they assumed that she was lying. You can see at Guardian of Valor how these amateur valor hunters went into pretzel twists to make their case, even though Bulldog and I tried to warn them that there was nothing to prove that she was lying.
I’ll admit that I was the first to check her out on AKO, it’s usually the first place I go to verify people who claim they’re in the Army, but unless the soldier fills out the portion of their profile about deployments, it won’t appear there. The absence of information is proof of nothing.
The way I approach these stolen valor cases is that I assume they’re telling the truth until I find something that proves them wrong and I couldn’t find anything substantial in this case, so I passed on it.
Bulldog got her DD214 and she did deploy to Iraq and she did do what she said she did;
But, some people couldn’t let it go, and it looks like the “POG Boot F***s” Facebook page that led the charge against her is gone now. There can be no half-measures in the hunt for valor thieves. We take extra steps when they’re still in the service, like Captain Lowery, here.
Category: Dumbass Bullshit
I read a LOT before commenting and going full HOOAAHHH and it took me about .5 seconds to find internet confirmation that her records had been posted and her commanding officer had verified her claims.
Jebus People. Do your due diligence.
Wow! I like this [former] Captain!
BTW the last commander I had before I retired from the Guard in 2005 was a woman, and this was in a Field Artillery battery. I believe she was branched FA, too.
“Commanded Infantry troops”.
She is so special.
Probably an attachment that was there to protect her outfit.
And their LT would fall under her.
So cool! I’m impressed.
Not.
You’re a hard man, Mr. Andersen.
GT: you might want to read the comments to the GOV article.
A fair number of units deploying to Iraq in the 2006-2008 time frame ended up being remissioned on arrival to do things that were out of normal scope. Based on the comments there at GOV from someone in the same parent unit, it looks like the unit in which she ended up a Plt Ldr was one of the units tagged for a mission at variance with their normal training and organization.
Soldiers can’t in general do much besides obey orders once they’ve been received. Someone assigned that unit the Bucca detainee mission, and someone assigned her as compound commander and assigned that platoon to her. As an LT, I doubt she had much say in either.
I am not despairing her service. She seems to be a competent and efficient officer.
I just see it more and more.
Is that the new qualifier? I “commanded” IN troops one time?
Frankly, your previous comment seemed to me to downplay her service, if not damned close to outright disparagement. At least that’s the way it came across to me.
No, that unit wasn’t out kicking doors. But it was performing a necessary mission – a mission deemed important enough that an infantry unit was detailed to do it when they could have instead been sent to kick doors.
I’m guessing they were performing detainee control vice area/base security. As I recall, the Bucca area was generally fairly quiet during that time frame (2007-2008) – e.g., not much enemy activity in that region. I believe logistics and detainee control were the primary missions there.
My point was the lady was “dealt a hand” she almost certainly didn’t seek or expect, and apparently played the hand she was dealt fairly well. That hand included taking charge of an infantry platoon under somewhat unusual circumstances.
If she hadn’t been worth a damn, she’d have lost her men’s respect and she’d have failed because of that – or things would have gotten out of control and there would have been significant incidents. Instead, apparently she was competent and succeeded in executing her unit’s mission.
Seems to me that regardless of gender, seeing someone successfully lead troops in a combat zone is something praiseworthy. Could she have done the same under other conditions and for other missions? Unknown – and irrelevant. You execute the mission you’re assigned, not the mission you necessarily want.
Just my $0.02, and YMMV.
I am not sure what kicking doors has to with anything.
Just the comment of commanding IN troops.
And for the record, I have commanded/led CS, CSS and sister service troops in different environments, especially as attachments, when deemed mission specific.
But I never recall mentioning it. Ever. Just goes w/ the territory.
As far as the “hand” that was dealt, it happens and it is not really my problem. As Officers, you do what you are told and complete the mission/objective.I did not bring that up, either.
You really read a lot into this that is not there.
And I guess we are missing the whole “competent” and “efficient” comment as well.
You took a good portion of this the wrong way. And if I was not clear, I apologize.
Not picking an argument, here. Just proffering my .02 cents.
“She is so special.”
“Probably an attachment that was there to protect her outfit.”
“So cool! I’m impressed. Not.”
Er…I think I lean towards Hondo’s reading. If you were trying to put across the message that “She seems to be a competent and efficient officer,” I think you did it wrong.
Noted.
Ya got me, too, GT. I was scratching my head and wondering, “Huh?”
De nada, and no offense taken. Misunderstandings happen; clarification generally fixes them. We seem to be essentially in agreement.
I will say this: having a female assigned to and in direct charge of an IN unit of Plt size or larger is rare enough that I would say success in such a role is noteworthy, particularly in a combat zone.
I think the confusion came from the fact that she’s a signal officer who was in fact leading an infantry platoon. And implying they were doing infantry stuff when in fact they were doing MP type stuff.
In Iraq, I was an Armor officer in a Forward Support Company with an infantry platoon attached. Doing MP missions. And the log platoon was also doing MP missions. And we were all part of an infantry BN. The battalion was attached to an MP Brigade. Convoluted doesn’t begin to describe it.
You were an Armor officer?
With a name like Stacy0311, I thought you were a proper enlisted infantry rifleman.
If your career started as an Infantry Grunt and ended as an Armor Officer, which would you brag about more? -:-)
Once an 03 forever an 03.
It’s a grunt thing.
Honestly, as soon as I saw that the “Infantry” unit where she commanded was an ARNG unit and that it was in Iraq as an ILO military police unit, the story was completely plausible. There was a time when Ft Dix was taking every ARNG combat arms unit that they could find, running a shake and bake MP course during post mob training, and sending them to Iraq. As soon as the units hit the mob stations as ILO units, all of the combat arms restrictions were lifted, and any warm body needed to fill a critical position was tossed into the para/lin. Likely the original PL didn’t make it to or through the mob station, so Dix cut orders for her to fill the slot.
It’s the same with my unit. All of the POGs (me included) were given a two-week 11-Bodybag course before deployment, to include many females. We didn’t get the disk and cord, but Big Army considered us “Infantry qualified” for all intents and purposes.
PLEASE! The correct nomenclature is 11Bulletstopper …
“11-Bodybag course”
Please excuse me if I don’t chuckle.
I’m sorry for being so pissy. It’s been a rough day and didn’t catch what you were saying. Reading comprehension is usually one of my strong skills, but not today.
No worries – it’s just Black Humor, Bruthah!
😛
Of course, a 2 week premob course is all it takes to be infantry, everyone knows that
The same could be said of any MOS. Imagine being Infantry and assigned MP duties while your buddies are kicking doors down.
Once you got to Kuwait, all bets were off on what you would be doing in country, especially the Reserve and Guard units.
Hell, I went over with the majority of my Company, the 344th, but with the Command structure of the 340th MP from NY City.
We kept our 1st Sargent, until we got to Kuwait, then he was replaced with a 340th Master Sargent.
Try doing that. We had to mesh as a unit and the only time we got to try and gel together was the annual 2 weeks training and then right into MOB at Dix before going to Iraq.
I’m with Bobo on this. I was at Dix for MOB in. 2008 and can confirm that every warm body was thrown into MP training. It was very “overall” training consisting of convoy escort, Ptt, and detainee ops.
If I also remember correctly you can have one MP cage kicker per 10 non MP troops to run a detainee facility. The infantry plt she was in was probably QRF for Bucca.
Similar here; my ARNG unit, a MICO, was combined with the Squadron HHT and pulled PSD for the UN and QRF and some PSD for the Embassy in Baghdad.
I know I’ll get shit from this…Signal Corps was (is?) a Combat Arms.
Signal Corps wasn’t considered combat arms during my time in it 1987-2012. Signal is combat support.
Same was true in the mid-1970s. Can’t speak for earlier than that.
Combat Arms in the Army are Infantry, Armor, Artillery, Special Forces and Combat Engineer. 25 series are not and have never been combat arms to my knowledge.
Actually, you missed two: Air Defense Artillery and Aviation (Attack and Cav only). Those two branches are also today considered combat arms.
Was in the 60’s guys. I was one. I thought it had changed but can’t remember when. Just throwing a friendly grenade because it always got a rise out of the “other combat arms guys.
I remember seeing stuff about this though at the time it was referred to as being a ‘Line’ officer. WEB Griffin mentions it in a couple of his Brotherhood of War books.
SJ, they are just not thinking of our “old school” methods and names of outfits from 45-50 years ago and how they conducted their business.
Here’s an example: Try to tell the members of the 81mm Mortar Platoon of the 8th Radio Research Field Station at Phu Bai, RVN that they weren’t Combat Arms soldiers because the name of their outfit contains the words ” Radio Research” and see what kind of reaction they get.
Their nickname of “The Power and Light Company” is dead on.
RRU bubbas weren’t very sociable folks as I recall :-).
I didn’t mean to start a urinary contest, was just being a smart ass. BUT SigC WAS a Combat Arms in the 60’s. I think it got moved to Combat Support when Aviation came into being so important in VN. And, I agree that it wasn’t truly a combat arms because we didn’t have the mission to close with and kill and destroy the enemy…only support those that did. But it made for fun at Officer’s Calls in the 82nd. I got a Regular Army Commission out of Citadel and I think I had to chose a Combat Arms as a branch.
That’s a topic that will confuse the young guys: Regular vs Reserve Commissions and rank. Ah the good ole days.
I’m with you, SJ. Old school all the way. I have no doubt that Signal Corps was once part of Combat Arms.
Try telling that 05B who’s out in the bush with that PRC-25/77 strapped onto his back that he’s not a “Combat Soldier” due to his MOS not being Combat Arms and I guarantee you’ll have a fight on your hands. Same thing goes for the platoon medic or an attached engineer/pioneer. In my eyes, all are combat soldiers.
I spent a bit of time packing a URC-101 along with all its assorted goodies along the DMZ in 1990. it’s still “combat support” even if you’re freezing with the infantry.
Be required to set up a smoke line in front of the FLOT was a fun endeavor also.
SJ,
Something to consider is that the “Radio Research” units weren’t really part of the Signal Corps; they were the Army Security Agency’s coy way of cloaking the fact that ASA had people in country. Which meant it was more an intel mission than a signal mission. ASA’s branch insignia was also intel.
You didn’t think all those unsociable folks at the RRU were running around talking to each other saying, “Can you hear me now?” did you?
It is now Operations, Operations Support, and Force Sustainment. The Signal Corps is Operations Support. The term Combat Arms went away about 8 years ago… It was replaced by MFE Manuver, Fires, and Effects
Thanks for that clarification. I retired 20+ years ago and often have difficulty keeping up with the designations of units I once served in. Even MOS and CMF changes have me baffled at times.
Sig isn’t considered combat arms. It is support, however, like I was in Iraq, teams can be assigned to combat arms units and see plenty of action.
Ditto with “Docs” (Medics), they can easily end up seeing their fair share of action!
Medics can easily become riflemen.
A lot of “odds and sods” have suddenly found themselves riflemen.
True ‘dat. When the “sh!t gets real”, everyone becomes infantry.
Unfortunately, with varying levels of proficiency.
Folks, this is how we know stuff. When the evidence is there, accept the data. That is how Einstein figured out relativity – the theories said X but the data said Y. So Mr. Einstein created a theory that agreed with the data. If the lady has the creds then she has them. So what the hell can be wrong with that? Jonn, thanks for doing the work and posting the results.
I have no contrary evidence. My kid went to Iraq in a FA unit. Someone decide that killing the enemy one grid square at a time was not what they wanted to do so his unit did infantry duty and he was the company commander’s driver. On his next tour, still FA, his unit was sent to a COP out east and did foot patrols. Much of the time he stayed on the COP and did commo and played with the computers. As far as I know, neither his unit ever fired a live artillery round in Iraq – I do not recall that he ever mentioned it.
Okay, she’s legit…
Personally, I like her. She fulfilled her duty and rather than hang around and be miserable (and presumably making others more miserable) she departed. That’s the stuff.
Yep.
My battalion fell under the 20th EN Bde(A)and I wasn’t aware female soldiers could go to SAPPER school either but they were very professional……….and kinda hot! We were a route clearance unit working out of Balad AB(Cp Anaconda) the same time the young LT was there.
Check….females can attend the SAPPER course….I was a Sapper Instructor from 1998-2001; I taught during the first class with female students…1 Captain, and 2 West Point cadets.
Only one of the students graduates…Sapper Hicks, she was a West Point cadet.
Pretty much looks like somebody screwed the pooch, and it doesn’t appear to be Miss Prissy.
So, somebody needs to man up and apologize, because it seems this woman actually did what she said she did … unlike SO many others.
As for the couthless SOB’s posting their filthy crap … well, all I can say is stay classy, bozos.
I like this gal, she has charrisma!
The Navy will take her!
Damn skippy Master Chief
As much as I support our Navy warfighters, she’s Army through and through. 🙂
I just checked out her Facebooker thingy over there at: https://www.facebook.com/PrissyHollyJournalist
BLUF: I really like this LEGIT US ARMY VET!
Her pen is on fire for very good reason right now!
I think she has a right to have a ginormous case of the ass on those who bad mouthed her before they had their shit together, People need to get their facts straight before they open their mouths and spout off!
Dayum! Take all the fun out of internetting, why don’t you!
I will buy the first “Prissy Holly Swimsuit Calendar” …
Well, MCPO – why don’t you send her an email introducing yourself and telling her that. (smile)
Done!
Geeze Hondo, that wasn’t even a “tough” challenge, unless you were counting on him to “not” do it within 5 seconds…
LOL! How about if I just pass the idea along to my sis-in-law! Heehee!
I’ve been following this story on the other SV pages and I think the problem came up because of her wording. That is the issue…Her original post was she was in and commanded an infantry platoon, (meaning she herself was infantry), not that she was attached.
But it appears it was just poor wording on her part as she was indeed attached to an infantry platoon as a patrol leader for an infantry unit doing MP work for a Detainee camp.
IMHO, I think she just wording things wrong and that was the shyte hit the fan.
Either way, she appears to have done a good job and has earned our respect as fellow vet.
TC: um, a couple of points regarding your comment above.
1. CPT Lowrey was assigned to B Co 180th Inf – not attached. See the assignment orders at the GOV page linked above.
As a practical matter, the difference is effectively moot anyway. In both cases the gaining organization “owns” the individual concerned – e.g., has full authority for UCMJ and internal assignment purposes, and expected to house/feed/otherwise care for the individual.
2. While the position is titled “Platoon Leader” and technically not a “commander” for legal purposes, an Army Platoon Leader has full authority over his/her platoon. Thus, a platoon leader is the de facto commander of his/her platoon, even if not formally appointed to command. Indeed, I believe the USMC refers to their officers holding the same position as “Platoon Commanders”.
The language the lady used may be technically incorrect from a “name of position” point of view, but it is essentially accurate regarding the scope of responsibility.
Gotcha Hondo….But I am still confused…Is she or is she not Infantry? I was under the impression woman can not be Infantry. I understand they can be attached to an Infantry platoon and even be in command positions of them, but do they actually hold the infantry mos?
The Army and Marine stuff confuses the hell out of me lol
No, she’s not Infantry by training or occupational specialty. Rather, she was a Signal Corps officer assigned to an Infantry unit, and was “mis-slotted” into what would normally have been an Infantry officer billet due to operational need. That Infantry unit was in turn given an atypical mission for an Infantry unit (detainee control) when deployed.
FWIW: while the vast majority of personnel assigned to an Infantry unit hold Infantry specialties, not everyone assigned to an Infantry unit does. Medics, mechanics, and Intel Officers/NCOs/Specialists come to mind; their basic branches are Medical Corps, Ordnance, and Military Intelligence. You’ll typically find at least a few of each in many Infantry units of Battalion size or larger. At Battalion level, there generally also is a Signal Section led by a Signal Officer (or at least there used to be a Signal section some years ago – that may have changed). I’ve probably missed a few specialties.
My guess is that she was originally either slated to deploy as the 180th’s Signal Officer or as an individual augmentee to another unit. However, as a commenter above pointed out, she was quite possibly reassigned when the platoon leader for the platoon in question failed to make it thru pre-deployment processing.
For the last couple years, maneuver companies/troops have had Intel teams at their level to support the intelligence function.
“COIST” = Company Intelligence Support Team.
The Cav Troop I supported in Afghanistan 11-12 had a 35F E-4 and a 35D O-1 working with them. They added one or two more troops from the company to help them that weren’t 35-series, but that’s a newer setup.
It did in fact work very well I think, because Company/Troop commanders had intel analysis in their TOCs, instead of having to wait for Battalion/Squadron Intel-weenies telling them something.
I can verify the OKARNG was at Cropper and Bucca at that time. I was at Cropper with another BN. Infantry was assigned to all kinds of people as well as an FA BN.
That’s funny mike. I was on Rustimiyah in 08 and closed it down and moved to BIAP with the 91st MP Battalion. I think a few of my “targets” stopped over at Cropper before going to Bucca.
We had all kinds of schmucks roll through Cropper and they stayed dangerous even in a compound with pajamas and rubber slippers.
One story that went around from one of the high value compounds came from taking out the trash. God this is heavy, what’s in here a dead body?
uummmmmm yeah
Thanks Hondo…
I think maybe that is where the issue came from…the weird wording on her post that she WAS Infantry not a Signal Officer working as A Platoon Leader in an Infantry unit.
Either way, I appreciate the explanation…This Deep Water Challenged Sailor is very much one of Uncle Sam’s Confused Group when it comes to her Big Brother Army and Marine siblings 🙂
Okay so here’s my only issue with the Captain. Her records are squared away and she served her time honorably. Kudos to her for that.
However her comments lead a person, even some military to believe she was in command of an “infantry” unit in the field, under fire. That is the pedestrian assumption of an infantry commander. I understand being assigned as a command officer of a group which is or includes infantry 11B troops in charge of a detention center or protecting a FOB inside the wire. It is just not the same though as “closing with and destroying the enemy”. It is the “impression” left, of what she says that had me thinking, “lady you seem a bit disingenuous.”
If I am sideways on this or am missing something because I admit I did not do any extensive internet searches of her, then please feel free to correct me.
@Sparks~
That’s what I was thinking and trying to post lol…thanks for being much clearer than me….
When I first read her posts and the subsequent crap storm it seem like she was saying she was leading infantry outside the wire and was herself infantry..but as I said in my above post Army and Marine stuff confuse the hell out of me that’s why I am very grateful to Hondo for helping me to understand.
Toasty Coastie…We shared the same confusion. When a man says, “I was a Captain in command of an infantry unit in combat”, I know without further ado what he means and did. When a man says, “I was a Captain in command of an infantry until in a combat theater of operations assigned to thus and so”, I also understand what he means as well. When a female implies “I was a Captain over an infantry unit”, I immediately think, excuse me. As I said it was the impression she left which took me aback. Yes she defined her duties as being in “command of a super high security detention center” for prisoners of war. That duty, which could obviously and reasonably have 11B infantry troops assigned to it is still a far cry from the duties of a combat line infantry officer. She states on her Facebook page regarding her proof, “(which prove I was was attached to an Infantry unit and over Soldiers). That means a lot and is far different than the impression I was left with on first blush.
@Sparks
My impression as well….I’m sorry she got hazed so badly before all the evidence was in, but part of it was her own fault for being ambiguous on her claims.
Frankly, I think she could have stopped the shyte storm very early on if she had just edited her post and clarified her job instead of having a hissy fit. On that same note though, I think it was wrong of those that went after her before all the evidence was in.
She’s a tough cookie and I am sure she will move on from this with hopefully a lesson to be clear and concise when writing about her time in the Army. No need to be misleading. She had a tough job from what I understand and apparently did a good job.
Off-Topic~
How are you feeling? You and your family have been and still are in my prayers that you heal up well and quickly 🙂
You guys have articulated exactly why sometimes folks will use ambiguous language in describing their military jobs – it is often easier for others to understand than using more technically correct language followed by a couple of paragraphs explaining what it means.
Some of us never will understand the attitude plenty of vets have that their MOS is the only one that counts, and all the rest of us a just don’t. Whatever. Not that I begrudge anyone being proud of what they did, or were prepared to do. We all should be, and should all be respected for it.
/mini sermon for January
@OWB
I agree with you partly. Using ambiguous language when describing your military job/experience is fine if you are of the High speed/Low drag folks….but if you are just a regular troop or sailor and writing about your job, you have a responsibility to be very clear on your job title and job. The good Capt. is a good example as to why. All it takes is one person to read what you wrote describing what you were and did to call bs on you and start a crap storm. That is what happened to the Capt. Unfortunately, there were some very impatient wanna be Valor Hunters who called her out before the evidence was in and it started a bandwagon pitch forks and fire brigade. Instead of standing down and waiting for confirmation after she had been reported they went after her tooth and nail. And I would lay odds she is not the first one it has happened to. It could have all been avoided if she had been clear and concise in her post to begin with or edited her post after the initial incident.
Stolen Valor is finally starting to finally get traction and while that is great news, the bad side is now we are going to have a bunch of amateurs going after folks with out having done their due diligence. Dennis Denny Howard Cheeseslayer Chevelier/LIAR comes to mind as one who did just that and was wrong a bunch of times and hurt a lot of innocent people.
I guess my point is, as Vets, if we are going to post about our service online, its better to take a few extra minutes to write exactly what we did, “Cook, in charge of all wire whisks and metal bowls in the Galley at USCG Station New Haven” vice “Green Beret Chef at Ft. Bragg”.
Hey Toastie, did you know anyone by the name of Delisio? He was an E-6 Coastie I think.
@Ex-334MP~
Name sounds familiar, but I can’t say 100%…Do you know where he was stationed?
I wanna say Groton but I am not sure. He was my boss for an Irrigation company I worked for before deploying. Was curious is all.
Oh, I don’t disagree with you, TC! In fact, I completely agree with you. I just know from experience that it frequently is impossible to correctly explain to some folks exactly what my own military experience was. It’s very easy to confuse people no matter how it is worded. That’s just reality, not an excuse for deliberately trying to misrepresent things.
@OWB
🙂 <3
Yes, OWB, that’s easier; it sometimes works. But sometimes a bit of additional explanation really is necessary.
An example: my younger days included an assignment lasting between 1 and 2 years to an Army Special Forces Group – in a support role. You will never see me tell anyone about that assignment without me also explaining that I was assigned there in a support role and was not SF-qualified/not a “team guy”/”not an operator”/some similar explanation.
Leaving out the explanation would give the wrong impression, and IMO would be a lie by omission. I’ll pass on misleading people that way, thanks.
And yeah: I understand your point regarding attitude. There are no unimportant military specialties. Even such seemingly-mundane things as personnel actions and mail delivery are absolute morale-killers when they get screwed up.
Excellent Point Hondo. The only reason the military has a “postal system” is because Mail = Morale.
implemented in World War 1 I think?
Absolutely, Hondo. Most of us learn to carefully word our assignments unless we know the audience quite well. Being an Army brat, I learned that one very early in life. My Dad mostly just told folks that he was retired Army and left it at that.
It’s already been described but I’ll say it again because it happened to me. My ARNG infantry battalion was pretty much parted out when we deployed in 08 and ended up at Cropper. We were listed as part of an MP battalion that was described as the largest MP battalion in the Army at the time. But I don’t think the had many MPs outside of the HHC.
So people definitely need to check before they bash. Though I do think she was puffing herself a bit by specifying she had infantry under her command, but let’s be honest… how many of us haven’t puffed it up just a bit from time to time?
I still think Cropper had a typo in its name.
Surprising absolutely no one, less than a week after it was turned over to Iraqi control in 2010, several high value detainees “escaped”.
I wonder how many of them are now with ISIS/ISIL?
Don’t get me started…they started letting them out of Bucca when I was there. I swear I was making a new target folder every few days there for a while.
I remember attending a Retreat ceremony at Fort McNair in Washington, D.C. many, many years ago, and how I objected to seeing a FEMALE commanding the “Old Guard” of the Third Infantry Regiment!
Also, during the historic reenactment scenes, they had FEMALES portraying male combat roles.
Yes, I’m old fashioned, and with no apology.
Male soldiers should never be commanded by females.
The only exception should be Deborah leading her armies on Mount Tabor.
Or Army Captains with “I Will Kill You”
written in Arabic on their hat brims….
This! ^^^^^^^ 🙂
Should males be allowed to command females?
Rather glad that I don’t live in your world, John! In mine, the most qualified folks became the supervisors. Sometimes they were males and sometimes they were females.
@OWB~
If JRM had his way there wouldn’t BE any females even in the service….I imagine he thinks us females are only good for subservient roles..barefoot, pregnant in the kitchen…
The only exception should be Deborah leading her armies on Mount Tabor.
OOPS! It duplicated.
I wonder how that happened?
John,
You are “the most interesting man in the world” no doubt, however sometimes you go “full retard” and say things that leads me to believe that the ole Vet’s home is slipping you extra meds “just to take the edge off!”
In review:
1. Never go “full retard.”
2. The meds have the opposite of the intended effect.
3. Stay thirsty my friend!
MCPO
When my National Guard Battalion was deployed in 04, all of the POGs were given the two-week 11-bodybag training. This included the female personnel assigned to Battalion- and Company-level support roles and a few volunteers from the rest of the Brigade. They humped the same rucks, fired the same rifles, ate the same grub, and complained about the same shit. When the shooting starts, ladi dadi everybody is infantry.
The rear det back in the states found themselves with an immediate lack of male officer leadership, seeing as how they were all deployed with their units. My company had a former SSG turned Cadidiot as our CO for about seven months, then he was dropped to XO when state played the shell game.
Our Battalion, for about eight months, was commanded by a female full-bird JAG officer for close to a year. Yes, we were an INF battalion, but it was rear det. There was grumbling, but that’s all there was. Everyone understood that the primary crop of officers were deploying for their “combat duty” in what we thought was going to be a short war. Oops.
On a side note, I’m in total agreement with MCPO about the good Captain. Hubba hubba.
The bar of authenticity here at TAH is a good bit higher than at civilian websites and for a couple of good reasons: the care Jonn takes not to defame legitimate fellow veterans and the wide spectrum of military experiences and the depth of military knowledge possessed by the readers. My own take on the captain is that she probably felt she was writing for a primarily civilian reader base and didn’t feel a detailed explanation necessary.
I’ll give you a personal example. When I first began writing my political poems and essays back in 2004 and posting them initially on political websites, I quickly found that liberals questioned my bonafides to criticize John Kerry’s Vietnam service record, so I began using a signature block that included my combat unit, the 2d Battalion 327th Airborne Infantry. I then discovered that many civilians confused Airborne with Air Force so I changed the block to 2d Bn, 327th Parachute Infantry, which clarified it for the militarily uninformed.
Now technically, the 327th was formed as a a glider infantry regiment in WWII and remained so until the Army shut down its glider infantry school in 1948 and disbanded or converted its glider infantry regiments to parachute infantry regiments. By the time I served, the 327th was officially designated Airborne Infantry, but I felt no problem with using the clearer term Parachute Infantry for my civilian readers.
For almost a decade no one ever commented on that designation. That is until Jonn began posting my stuff here at TAH. Yep, the very first posting, Beretverde pounced on that up to then unchallenged distinction, noting that the 327th was a glider infantry regiment, hinting that my bonafides were suspect. I posted the same explanation as above and the issue was settled.
But you see my point: the yard dogs here at TAH are sharper and more demanding critics of those things military than most sites out there are. With that in mind, I believe we should cut the captain some slack. Her superiors seem to believe she’s a damned fine officer.
I forgot to mention that we also have the benefit of a special resource here at TAH:
The Hondopedia
When my dad finished Jump School in ’45 (after VJ-Day), he was assigned to the 327th GIR. He says they called gliders Flying Coffins. Must have been pretty bad – he gets nervous boarding an aircraft, to this day … but he still gets on.
🙂
Someone send me “Battle Barbie’s” email address … I want to invest in the calendar.
I have been reading about the female mug all day.
If I was young and single … I would propose sight unseen.
Someone help me connect with her!
I don’t do that Tweeter or Facebooker thing!
MCPO, you’re Navy Enlisted is showing.
Thinking about that possibility has my Army Enlisted showing a little too.
Here’s another one for you. In Afghanistan there are “Provincial Reconstruction Teams” that are essentially Battalion-size Headquarters with support assets set up as a Task Force, they just call them PRTs because of the mission.
As part of those PRTs they have a “Security Force” Platoon or Company as I recall, depending on the danger level of the province. The SECFOR elements are usually infantry, or at least combat arms.
Some of those PRTs are not only commanded by Female O-5s, They are commanded by Air Force or Navy O-5s, that are female. The reason they command those PRTs is a long and sordid story full of “you can’t make this shit up” factors.
Those PRT Commanders also do travel outside the wire to attend meetings in various locations of their province. (Some more, some less.)
So not only are/were females in “command” of infantry, there are/were even Female Squid and Chair Force in “command” of infantry. Boom.
Mind. Blown.
HOLY CRAP!!
Eric,
Your did mean to say Sailor correct?
Chairforce is fine with me!
Green Thumb, nothing that female officer said indicates that she meant ‘I’m so special’. All she did was present her résumé: “I was trained to do this, but was told to do that, so I did that”. I don’t see anything anywhere that indicates she thought she was ‘special’. So she was unclear in how she said it: big deal. That happens to all of us, including you AND me. What you don’t know about women is a helluva lot. We train to do this-this-this and we’re told to do that-that-that, and since we have to make a living, we do that-that-that. It’s called a CV, in case you didn’t get that part. I’ve done a bodacious lot of stuff I never had any ‘training’ to do other than OJT. That applies not only to me but also to a massive percentage of women who work for a living, not because they want to but because they have to in order to make ends meet. And why do they do that? Because guys like you just decide you don’t want to be bothered with your share of the load for anything. Yeah, I blame you. There are plenty of women who have succeeded brilliantly at running businesses. J.K. Rowling, for instance: smart enough to sell only the movie rights to ‘Harry Potter’ and kept the rest for herself. She’s a multibillionaire. You aren’t. Amanda Hocking, indie author, self-published: knew she had a winner and hit social media like gangbusters to generate sales. She made $2 million the first year of her first novel and continues to write. She’s a multi-millionaire. You’re not. The CEO of Pepsi is a woman. I can name a lot of other women who are really good at making things work and do very well at it. Like I said, what you don’t know about women is a lot, so here’s what you should know: your mother didn’t have to carry you for 9 months. She could have found an old crone with a twig and flushed you down the toilet. Then where would you be?… Read more »
Ex,
You had me at “Bodacious”…
Thank you, Eric.
Sometimes, when I use that word, it calls to mind the retired rodeo bull Bodacious, and I wonder then if I should use it.
@Ex-PH2
Good points all….I would amend who it was addressed to and include John Robert Mallernee as well.
It absolutely amazes me that at this point in time there are still some men who, even after all these many years, still haven’t a clue that women can do just as much as men and sometimes more and better.
And before anyone jumps on me and starts in about lowered standards being given to females in specialty rates, let me go on record that I disagree with that. I think all men and women should be held to the same standards for all rates and mos’s. I don’t believe in special treatment because of what’s between a person’s legs. Every person should be given the same chances to try and succeed or fail
After that, assignments should be given out based on whether the person is capable to do the job and to do it well.
TC, I tend to ignore Mallernee when he goes off on that crap.
Wow. Though this was over. Ok. Here we go. People bitch about the social science experiment. Especially many on here; I being one of them. Everyone hates the Infantry. While I get the gap is closing due to the asymmetrical component of the “game” (and justified), people still hate the Infantry. Loosely translated, we are all equal in the military, right? Now keep in mind this is the same Infantry that takes the majority of the casualties, if I AM NOT MISTAKEN. If that is the case, then how can the qualifier be “I served alongside, commanded, trained, etc.” with the Infantry? To make it easy for you EX, why claim you commanded Infantry if we are all the same? It is not this person’s fault, it is the article/media and the fools that put her in that position by originally calling her out. If the Infantry is “down” there, then why even put it out there? Once again, not her in the big picture, but your social scientists. I consider it (commanding/leading) Infantry normal. See comments above were I have commanded and led attachments, groups, etc., with and outside of the MOS/Branch. And to command/lead Infantry? In my former world, who has not? To be honest, I am sad that you have made this a gender issue. I never brought it (gender) up. I have no fight with this woman. If you wish to use it as a tool; that’s on you. I am beyond this argument. This CPT did honorable service, no matter how you change my words, I have said as much. But in the end, those that bitch and complain about the unfairness and bias about/to the Infantry, should not claim association. And, for the record, this CPT did not. She was handed a order/assignment and followed through. Never disputed that. Just proving a point that was sadly misread. I did not originally call her out as the eventual subject of the post. It would appear a fool did. I would have ascertained the situation on the spot. So riddle me this, EX: If everyone is… Read more »
Missing the mark? Maybe, maybe not. What you said ‘so special, so cool, NOT’ indicates to me that you had issues with our subject, Lowery, because of her gender. You did not indicate otherwise.
If you do not have those issues, then you could clarify that without my taking you to task over what you said.
Gender bias? No, just making a point, that accomplishments by hardworking women are frequently overlooked or overshadowed by women who do NOT carry their share of the load, and there are plenty of them.
That is not gender bias. It is the difference between Elizabeth I, who took a bankrupt England and turned it into a wealthy powerhouse nation, and Marie Antoinette, who was so disconnected from her French subjects that she was executed for it.
And yes, it is an appropriate comparison. There are plenty of women in the military past and present who had long, productive careers, but whose accomplishments are ignored because they don’t act like damned fools. They are the 90% who get no notice, but the 10% who do get noticed get it for all the wrong reasons, and then that’s all we hear about.
To be clear, this had less to do with infantry versus tanks or combat camera groups than it did with the general perception that she was embroidering her position in the Army, when she was not.
I know as well as you do that in infantry, you (the officer) listen to your sergeant if you want to stay alive. She was not infantry, she was assigned to it and clearly did not have that insight.
If your response to her was because she was non-infantry assigned to what became labeled an ‘infantry’ unit, even if it was not, you could have said so.
1) “Missing the mark? Maybe, maybe not. What you said ‘so special, so cool, NOT’ indicates to me that you had issues with our subject, Lowery, because of her gender. You did not indicate otherwise.”
This is an assumption on your part and, yes, you are missing the mark.
Gender was not and is not the issue.
And what does Elizabeth the First have do with this?
2)”To be clear, this had less to do with infantry versus tanks or combat camera groups than it did with the general perception that she was embroidering her position in the Army, when she was not.”
I agree.
I did not call her out. I just said I was not impressed as it was “put forth”. But the comparison or reference, if you will, to line Infantry is questionable. I have had some terrible jobs in service but did them; that’s called orders. Ad she seems to have followed them with great success. But it is what it is. But I will state again, I did not, in view of many others opinions, think Infantry was that special. Just another branch. Satire, if you will.
As I said EX, I respect your insight. A very different, candid and pragmatic view. But I will state once again, my comments were misread.
And, just for the record, if you still consider this a gender issue, which it is not (reiterate: never brought gender up outside of she/her pronouns) I am married to a very LIBERAL FEMINIST.
Okay, we can haggle all night over your intial remarks, what you said and how you meant it as opposed to how it appears to others, e.g., me, but that does not set aside how I reacted to what you said.
And stop pretending to be such a blockhead. You know damned well why I brought up Elizabeth I.
Fair enough.
Interpretation versus perception.
I made my point. You made your point.
And if I may “indicate”, we can agree to disagree on several aspects. It happens.
No issues here. As I stated, I appreciate your candor and your steadfast resolve, on many levels.
See last-closing comment.
I can only imagine we will find common ground in the near future.
Until then.
GT
Hate to belabor this, and most likely should not ask, but what does Elizabeth I have to do with this?
This entire thing was about somebody saying that this officer made false claims. Gender has nothing to do with that. Unless someone can show me that the accuser only goes after female posers for some gender related issue, my working presumption is that the major problem starting all this is an incorrect assumption being made by the accuser about the infantry, not about this particular officer.
And for the record, I don’t hate the infantry. You can’t win a war without the foot soldiers.
“Everyone hates the Infantry.”
I’m not sure where this is coming from, seems a generalization really.
All the rest of us are there to support the infantry in doing their job (break shit and hurt people). I enjoyed working with the infantry and had no complaints.
The infantry have their ways/culture just like everyone else.
She strikes me as a “tell it like it is” person, with a bit of a chip on her shoulder-nothing wrong with that. I’m thinking though, that her attitude perhaps rubbed a senior officer or two the wrong way. Female officer running troops in a combat zone and not one award for achievement – just the “normal” awards and decorations for being in Theater.
I don’t blame her for having a case of discolored gludius maximus, but if she’s gonna be pissed about the sexist stuff, “Prissy” probably isn’t a good screen name.
For the record, I had 3 female Company Commanders and one Group/Brigade Commander. 2 of the 4 I’d go to war with and the other two I wouldn’t trade a blow up doll for. Some of the best Huey drivers I ever flew with were female Warrants. Women can hang in there when given a chance and bringing the right attitude.
It’s not the sexism that my sis-in-law was pissed about, but rather the lies and name trashing going around the web (started by Capt. Rob Freed -whom she has never worked with, nor personally met). He not only attempted (and miserably failed!) to discredit her entire military service, but also attempted to discredit her career as a journalist for Mad World News. Joke is on him, however, as his little temper tantrum has only put Capt. Lowery in the spotlight and himself in a cave. 🙂
Karma’s a biatch, Rob Freed!
FWIW what they have listed here is her end of tour DD214. My end of tour DD214 didn’t have any of my awards listed that I received during my last [Reserve] deployment. About 3 months later I received a corrected copy.
“In charge”
Officers love that myth. Nco are in charge. You’re just a figurehead to take the credit if everything goes well.
What a POG.
They don’t pay us for what we know, they pay us for the amount of responsibility we take. As a [former] O3E and a former NCO, I’ve seen it from both sides of the coin. If an Officer is doing their job correctly, s/he is just as responsible for the success and yes, failure of their people as an NCO.
Well, okay. so, old school days, MP’s were expected to be combat at the drop of a pin, ride Hueys, run with armor, infantry, arty, air assault, Cav, what ever the shit you were told you were going to do, hence that infamous term of endearment “multi-purpose”. Unless you were sent to infantry then you earned the title “mud puppy” or air cav, “air cops” or one of the radio research units (ASA) then, you were above it all. God status, nobody screwed with you there. heh.
I have no issues with this Soldier … I hope she drops by to chat!
Down boy, down!
Love ya Chief 🙂