Advice from an old sergeant
At midnight, I will have been retired 21 years from the Army, but as many of your can attest, I never really left. I still love the service and I appreciate everything that service did for me. I get upset when I see things go sideways for the troops like they have recently. A lot of the problems are with the leadership. Like the 1SG who made a public spectacle of herself earlier this year and elevated some misbehavior by some troops on social media to the Pentagon. In the comments, some folks have asked what she should have done differently, so I’m going to give some unsolicited advice.
Many of my peers thought that “Courtesy Patrol” in Germany was their opportunity to act like MPs and arrest people for drunkenness down on the strasse. I saw it as a teaching opportunity. If I saw people in drunken brawls, me and my minions would unceremoniously toss them in our van and drive them to their units and turn them over to their Charge of Quarters and their First Sergeants instead of turning them over to the MPs and get them put in the community blotter report.
When one of my squad leaders was picked up by the MPs for fighting one night, my battalion commander blamed me. So, instead of crying about being picked on for something that wasn’t my fault, I started my own platoon courtesy patrol – I went around to the local bars and policed up my troops at 2AM very night and took them back to the barracks before they could get in trouble. Because my peers didn’t do the same for me that I did on courtesy patrol for them.
I never got any recognition for making the hard choices, I didn’t go around telling my leadership how I kept their troops’ names out of the blotter – I just did it because it was the right thing to do. It gave me a sense of satisfaction about me and my job. The troops knew that I cared about them and they’d walk through fire for me.
Those things I did back then are things I still do today.
A few months ago, someone sent me some stuff on a fellow he knew at Fort Drum who was wearing things he hadn’t earned – a Purple Heart and a CIB. I looked him up on AKO, which also lists their supervisors’ names and I emailed the evidence against the guy to his squad leader. A few weeks later, the squad leader emailed me back that he had corrected problem and he thanked me for coming to him.
Last week, someone emailed us a disturbing picture of a buck sergeant making some wild ass statements about something that has been in the news lately. Instead of making a big deal of it, like some of the Facebook busts of troops (the young lady who skipped out on retreat and the folks misbehaving on burial detail come to mind) I sent the Facebook picture to him personally and warned him about his behavior. The other day, I got an email back from him thanking me for coming to him and promising that he would refrain from that behavior in the future.
I’m not looking for accolades by telling these stories, I’m telling you because it’s a minefield out there. If the professional NCO Corps is going to survive the current political climate, they need to think about doing the right thing that doesn’t get them medals and spots on the news and in DoD press releases. It’s not covering up problems, it’s fixing problems – the thing that needs to be done.
Real heroes are embarrassed by the recognition, and the professional NCO Corps are the real heroes of the military. They get the job done because that’s their job – not because they want some more shinies on their clothes.
Category: Military issues
Amen Jonn. As a junior officer I was blessed with NCO’s like you and I learned that you folks could make a good trooper out of a young soldier that was going astray without involving officers or UCMJ. A give-a-shit about the soldier and and a little “extra duty” (aka, buffing machine op) was usually all that was required. I “knew” that “counseling” was going on and I knew it was for the right reasons and not putting a soldier at risk…it was keeping him from a Summary/Special.
When I read this I think about the Band of Brothers episode in Bastogne and First Sergeant Lipton and how he held the unit together under what had to be the most trying of times.
It is because of good NCO’s like you and my Squad leaders that I am the man I am rather than the puke I was when I started out in this man’s Army.
Thank you Jonn for your service to your country, you are truly a credit to the uniform and the United States Army as a whole.
I just did it because it was the right thing to do. It gave me a sense of satisfaction about me and my job. The troops knew that I cared about them and they’d walk through fire for me.
Unsolicited advice from the right mentors is often the best advice, even if it creates a painful introspection about your personal motivation and drive.
I learned to be tough from my German grandfather and father…both were construction workers who had no time for bullshit or slackers….but I learned to be tough and smart from some great NCOs whose advice stays with me to this day some 30 years past my military service.
Doing the right thing because it’s your job to always do the right thing and not because you seek some personal recognition is one of the best things to learn, along with that I would this simple concept as well…
If you are taking responsibility for your success based on your efforts and hard work you must also take responsibility for your failures, especially when your effort and work were below the standards of excellence you set for yourself.
Share your success, and own your failure and you will be well served by those around you.
I hear you Jonn, Real NCO’s go the “Old School Route” first, taking care of things at the lowest level first and make every effort to let “Joe” or “Jane” to correct their ways before a career-damning paper trail gets started. As an NCO, I’ve had “Joes” try to pull stunts on me that were paid for in push-ups, and they straightened up without it even going past me, one or two of whom have gone on to become good NCO’s themselves, copycatting my way of TCB!! I came back in after a nine year been in service, and I’ll stay in as long as I can and keep passing my Old School habits on to as many younger Troops and NCO’s as I can, FUCK the “New Age touchie-feelie SHIT”!!
I will soon be signing my DA-199 (Physical Evaluation Board Proceedings) and retiring from a 24 year career in uniform (total time for active duty, and NG combined with almost half of that being active) and I completely agree with this article.
In March of 1991 I arrived at the office for 3rd Platoon, A Co, 1/87 Infantry, 10th Mtn Div and met my PSG. He looked up from paperwork and asked me what my most important duty was going to be while assigned to the platoon.
Being infantry, I spouted off with the “Kill the enemy and destroy their equipment” mantra that had been drilled into my head at the Ft Benning school for Wayward boys.
Then he spoke what could have been the most important 5 words I have ever heard. He simply said “Take care of your people”.
Being a private and being stupid, I responded that I had no people. His next words were said as I was in the front leaning rest position.
He told me that my people were anyone on Active Duty, in the National Guard and Army Reserve, (Even the Navy and Air Force, because someone had to make sure supplies got to the men), retirees, dependents of the above groups, and anyone who needed help.
Since then, I have tried to impart what little wisdom I have learned to the next generation, and there were many times that I have gone an extra step to make sure my buddy didn’t get themselves into trouble. A car ride when they were in no condition, a gentle word in someone’s ear when they were about to do something dumb, and tried to be an example for the younger soldiers in my unit.
It didn’t always work out to the best, but looking back at my career, I can say that the only regret I have is that I didn’t put away as much money as I should have for retirement.
Jonn,
Your article above is exactly why a guy like me has found comfort in visiting TAH.
I’m not blowing smoke when I say that I would have been proud to share a foxhole with you.
God Bless!
One can memorize Army Values, leadership principles and traits for promotion boards without being a leader. I was fortunate to have leaders when I made mistakes, and mentors to instill them in me…I was far from perfect but still think back with respect for the NCOs who helped me along the way. Especailly my squad leaders in Germany during the 70’s, did I ever test their leadership skills. 🙂
I’m quite certain these leaders still exists in the military, it’s just not in the news or going viral on social media.
Can’t add anything, except to say: “Well said, Jonn.”
I hope certain folks currently still serving are reading the above. They could learn much from it.
Long time listener, first time caller.
Folks still on active duty are reading this. In fact, it echoes the content of a conversation I had with a fellow NCO just yesterday. Only we aren’t the ones who have to read something like this to know what being a leader really means.
Texan: the second part of my comment above wasn’t meant for everyone still serving. It was only directed at those select few who worry more about burnishing their career than doing the correct thing – whether officer or enlisted.
Here’s a toast to the NCOs who roasted my butt when I was out of line, the troops I may have missed helping when I was an NCO and to whom I profusely apologize, and those officers who were genuine leaders of men. In almost 29 years as a civilian I have yet to meet their equals.
Both inside and outside of the Army, my ass has been kept out of the wringer more than once by the Jonn Lilyeas of the world. I suppose that’s true of all of us–but, unfortunately, some of us forget that fact when we’re the authority, be it an NCO or a supervisor in the civilian realm.
These lessons and values carry over. Even now, years after retiring from the Army I think back to ‘what would SGT X do if faced with this?” when faced with a particularly challenging issue.
Another aspect to this is the Who Packed Your Parachute story. For anyone unfamiliar, information is here: http://www.axpow.org/stories-whopacksyourparachute.htm
When my NCOs got stuck on Courtesy Patrol in Pohang back in the 80s, they’d jump in and give us a hand if they saw us in a fight. And then turn the OTHER miscreants over to the MPs. THAT’S taking care of your troops….
😉
disclaimer-the above described events did not happen if the statute of limitations applies.
Well put Jonn, I learned early on from old school NCO’s and I would like to believe it made me a good one as well. Always take care of your soldiers as they will take care of you !
I got in a helluva fight once. If I told you how long it lasted, you would call me a liar. Anyway, the next day, the other guy looked really, really, really bad. Well, everyone knew what had happened and I got pulled up. There was only one question posed to me: “What did you hit him with?” I said, “My fists” and displayed the backs of my hands. What followed was a series of instructions from God that I shall keep to myself. And that was that. To this day, I remain thankful that I have never seen the inside of a stockade.
Jonn–
First, thanks for letting us hang out here.
Second, “Amen!” I parted company on good terms after two years (+/- training) of active duty in the Army twenty years ago next May. I am proud to have served with NCOs of your caliber. I am reminded of my first platoon sergeant, SFC O. Thusly: We got off the bus after a trip to Ft. Bragg. He asked if I trusted him to which I replied in the affirmative, and he then gave me back my 2 quart canteen cover. Nothing much, really–he saved me 15 bucks; but it was an important lesson to me as a junior enlisted soldier: trust your sergeant to look out for you.
In the one more thing category, a good junior officer needs to learn not to ask so many questions, like: “Platoon Sergeant, how come PFC Snuffy is always running the buffing machine in the bays?” Reason: you get an answer like: “Oh sir, that’s just a hobby of his and I try to accommodate him.” ….All said with a big shit eating grin.
Spot on. Another great post!
Backbone of the Army! Some day it will be aloud to grow again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SD2rCi84oWI
At the risk of appearing to be a suck up, that is exactly what needed to be said. Sadly, current policy trends seem to scream ‘Over ruled’.
Well said. NCO Corps, the “backbone of the Army,” will see this force through the current debacle, if enough of them have the courage of their own convictions to emulate this same behavior.
I will add good NCOs are the backbone of any service. In the Corps, I was lucky a Senior NCO took time to impart how a good NCO should be. I like to think that I was at least 50^ of what he traugt me. Joe
Gotta tell ya, I was not exactly a boy scout but then, I was not one to cause trouble either. I’ve owed a debt of gratitude and
sincere thanks to several NCO’s that were paying attention as compared to other NCO’s that wanted the flock out of big Army way back then. Probably the greatest lesson ever was learning to just admit screwing up, take the punishment and move forward.
Gimme a brigade of old school NCO’s and Officers any time. Believe it when I say I mowed the 1SG’s lawn, trimmed it, straightened out every bent blade of mother green grass AND kept the 1SG’s parking spot spotless so he or the next always knew where to park their POV.
No joke, then pull 8-12 hrs riding patrol, standing gate duty, foot patrol (warehouses) OR go fetch other wayward troops, no matter where they ran to. Wait, the government credit card only went so far, ya know. If it was not for NCO’s such as YOU, Lord only knows where I’d of ended up.
I rarely comment but, this hit a home run to me and the timing is right. If it were not for NCO’s doing what John is talking about I would have been out of the military long before my first enlistment was up. I was a bit of a problem soldier at first to say the least!
I don’t remember what I did to piss him off, but long ago I was called into the Battalion Commander’s office with my 1SG for a royal ass chewing. One of the things he told me was that “there was no room for my old Army way of thinking in his Battalion”.
Well I stayed in the Battalion, was eventually appointed to HQ PSG (as an E5 btw) and he PCSd to an ROTC Command at a backwoods Texas Community College, never to be heard from again.
Still get a chuckle out of that.
Kinda sounds like the Gunny Highway/MAJ Powers moment. Anyway, Happy New Year NBC Guy. You and I served together at Carson during the same time frames although in different outfits. I think you said you were in 172nd Chem and the Aviation out at Butts Field, I was in 4/61 ADA, 1/12 INF and 1st Brigade Headquarters.
And a Happy New Year to you too Claw131. One of my CML Co Plt Leaders came from 1/12 after serving as BN Chem Officer. 1LT Peter Nealy. Squared away officer. I think my Plt even blew some smoke missions for you guys at Pinion Canyon.
Carson would have been a good assignment for me had I not lost a Soldier downrange and later balled up a Huey. Seems like a lifetime ago but I had good Senior NCOs that got me through it. Those were the guys I tried to be like in later assignments.
Take care and be safe.
Happy New Year Jonn.
Well needed post. I always lived by a simple motto; take care of the troops and they willtake care of you. That never failed me and still doesn’t to this day even though I’m retired.
“Lead by example”.
It’s the only thing that really matters.
I was a young trooper at Ft. Bragg in 1980 and my squad leader caught our platoon medic in the barracks with a bag of weed. He took that medic over to the latrine and made him flush it down the thunder mug and warned him to never bring that shit in his barracks again. That was a lesson I took with me the rest of my Army and Marine career.
That squad leader was a guy just like you, Jonn. I hope I lived up to you both.
When I wore a green tab, my rule was to keep discipline at the lowest level necessary. If I, as a PL or company commander, got involved when it was a squad or platoon level issue, I undermined my NCOs and junior officers, deprived them of a learning opportunity, and, made things that should have been more serious and handled at my level routine.
Back in the day, most NCOs treated those among their own herd that went to making it official report problems as first option as pariah.
“Report Writer” was one of the worst tags an NCO could earn. It meant completely lacking in any and all leadership skill and ability.
Can’t tak lifers seriously when it comes to this sort of stuff. When you choose the lifer route you choose your career over your troops. It’s why the best ncos aren’t lifers and will take the heat because they don’t need to suck ass for fit reports.
Good on you for being a decent human being but you don’t get up to top staff enlisted ranks without doing you’re fair share of blue falconing.
When I was a young troop, I learned a hell of a lot by watching my NCO leadership in action. I my 1SG lead by example, I saw the PSGs follow his lead, and so forth. If they thought you f-ed up, they would pound your junk flat, not to punish you, but to correct the behavior. If they thought you were right, they would stand beside you in front of the Old Man. We had trust in our SNCO leadership and so did the officers.
When I got out, a couple of friends of mine, back on the block, convinced me to do a “try 1 in the Guard”, in their unit, because for every Vet they got to do so, they would get a $100 savings bond. I figured I could do the year standing on my head. Well, you may not realize how good your leadership was, until you are in a unit with bad leadership. I saw bad leadership and training in that year. It put me off and I have many examples I could share, but won’t, because that was a long time ago and that unit morphed into a good one, since then. I didn’t buy, at the time, the stereotype of the Guard in those days, because I witnessed top notch professional Guard units while I was on AD (48th Infantry Brigade in Georgia was as good as any AD unit) and I witnessed bad AD units, as well.
I also served in the 48th; some of the finest senior NCOs I ever met were there. I wasn’t a huge fan of much of the officer corps brigade-wide, but there were lots and lots of good Soldiers, NCOs, and officers sprinkled throughout to make every day there count – and most by far outshined many of their counterparts on regular AD. after coming off AD in 3ID, I was floored by the amount of talent in units like the 48th.
I didn’t serve in the 48th, but I did work with them, from time to time, when I was in the 24th ID, in the early/mid 80’s. The ones I interacted with were top notch and they had some seriously good SNCOs.
what I don’t understand is when exactly the current climate took over the way NCOs think. I suppose about the time that PT test scores somehow become more important than leadership potential and experience.
one of my 1SGs once detailed to me the difference between a “stripe wearer” and a “stripe bearer” by stating that one should strive to be a bearer; those stripes are more of a responsibility than many junior NCOs realize, and you should feel every bit of the weight they carry, not just wear them as part of your rank and title. it’s a good lesson I was glad to have heard, among many, many others. sage advice like that is/was priceless to a junior enlisted looking to promote.
he was a bitter, burned out, coffee guzzling, chain smoking, foul mouthed, old before his time type. I idolized him, obviously.
This should be standing orders for any leader, any time, any where.
And – regardless of our titles, we are all leaders to someone.
When I went through PLDC it was “Mission First, Men Always”
It still rings true today in my “civilian” job.
The rules in the old days were simple – accomplish the mission and take care of your people. I just retired recently, but the changes in the Army leadership over the last 30 years still amaze me. Time was I could count upon my SL, PSG or NCOIC to act as my models and guides. Now the Army has to issue a list of proper values? I’ll be damned if I need the Army to provide my values…