Mustangs bear brunt of Army manpower cuts
The New York Times reports that Mustangs (officers who were once enlisted soldier) are three times more likely to get their pink slip than a West Point grad;
Many of those former enlisted officers had been encouraged to make the jump to the officer corps between 2006 and 2009 when the Iraq war was raging and the Pentagon was struggling to replace junior officers who were leaving the Army as soon as their initial commitments were over, often because they were worn out by multiple deployments.
The soldiers who volunteered to fill the gap — older than most junior officers because they had already served in the enlisted ranks — were picked from the best of the ranks, and some had to earn bachelor’s degrees to make the cut.
I remember after Vietnam, the Army gave 90-day-wonder folks the option of returning to the enlisted ranks to draw down the officer corps, but apparently, that’s not an option in this case.
A Haitian immigrant who enlisted as a teenager, [ Capt. Elder Saintjuste] deployed three times to Iraq, missing so many birthdays and Christmases that he sometimes felt he barely knew his four children. He hid symptoms of post-traumatic stress so he could stay in the Army, because he loved his job and believed that after 20 years he could retire with a captain’s pension.
Then this summer, on the day Captain Saintjuste reached his 20 years, the Army told him that as part of the postwar downsizing of the force he would have to retire. And adding insult to injury, he would have to retire as a sergeant, earning $1,200 less per month, because he had not been a captain long enough to receive a captain’s pension.
Well, at least he made it to 20. I guess that the last time he held a rank for three years was as an enlisted man. His retirement rank might be sergeant, but I’m pretty sure that they averaged my last three years for my retirement pay. The New York Times spelled his name wrong – it’s Edler, and he’s a Transportation Corp officer in an MI battalion at Bragg – not that it has anything to do with the story.
But all of you officers raise your hands if you’re surprised by this story…yeah, me neither. Its not what you know, it’s who you know.
Category: Big Army
WPPA in da House……..
Was thinking the same thing.
Or who you blow…..
ring knockers.
Some I respected the hell out of, others I swallowed my disdain and contempt for.
I once had the opportunity to be the recipiant of a ‘motivational lecture’ by a ring knocker.
I was escorted to and from that session by my platoon sgt.
After we left the lecture, the SSgt took me aside and reminded me that when it’s impossible to respect the man, at least try to respect the uniform.
My platoon sgt was more pissed off about the situation than I was.
This is not about “ring knockers”.
This is about shitty leadership.
Sean, Isnala, ChipNSA
Regarding your earlier question/statement, 35 MAJs and 111 CPTs who were USMA Graduates were separated. See slides 50 and 68 of the attached link for a full break-down (OCS, ROTC etc.).
http://the-military-guide.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/235750833-HRC-Brief-to-CSA-10-JUL-2014-v140710-0730-v5-1-w-hyperlinks-pptx.pdf
Thanks for the link.
Gives a much different spin on who was/wasn’t singled out for exit.
Hondo
IN the middle of the slide is a statement from the army g1 questioning the long term sustainability of maintaining a rotationa armor brigade combat team to Korea.
Well, well, well. Common sense and logic from someone withing the walls of the 5-sided asylum? Who’d a thunk it!
Perhaps the Millennium is indeed at hand.
Are you suggesting the Wizards of the Puzzle Palace are protecting their order over the others?
My god man! Have you no decency?
Color me shocked, not in the least.
Guess they’ll all be going out along with officers who try to uphold the honor of the uniform: http://popularmilitary.com/combat-pilot-tried-halt-lesbian-kissing-discharged/.
Political Purity will trump actual leadership qualities in the picking of who stays and who’s cut loose.
And, when asked if these cuts were targeting prior-service enlisted officers, Chuckie said that wasn’t the case. This kind of shit pisses me off.
It’s a sorry way to do business, but about what I expect from the current senior leadership that are only using half the tool box (and the involuntary half at that) to execute the drawdown.
What complicates the problem for the service is that a fair share of these officers’ report card are either not viewable by the board (LT reports), or the reports did not include a block check, making the board decision a real shot in the dark when compairing two officers who commanded or deployed at two different times.
Having joined the services in the 80’s I remember well having NCO’s who had been officers in Vietman and were then reduced back to either their original rank of the rank that they likely would have achieved. Most also kept their reserve commissions, so they ended up retiring as an officer with that retired pay. As an LT, my division CSM (who had been a company commander in the division in 71) was also a USAR O-5, which is what his retirement grade and pay was based on.
The bottom line is that the policy for Officer retirements and separations is VERY strictly governed by US law. If you haven’t served ten years as an officer upon separation/retirement (currently waived to eight, by the NDAA from about 6-8 years ago) you revert to your previous enlisted rank and the system calculates High-3 based on that grade, not your Officer grade.
Just curious but would it be possible for these individuals to transfer to the Reserve component (NG, USAR, IRR), retain their commissions until the hit the 10 year mark and then officially retire and their highest rank held? It would probably be a massive cluster in regards to paperwork, but instead of whining, they could check for other options.
For example I have been told when I get tired of playing Army and decide to ‘retire’ it’s best not to resign my commission and “retire” but transfer to the Retired Reserve. Something about how the pay is calculated.
Whoever has to calculate my retired pay is going to have a challenge (Active USMC, Reserve USMC, ARNG, ARNG mobilized, ARNG ADOS, and possible ARNG AGR)
Retired Reserve is definitely the way to go. From the HRC website:
“The highest 36 months of basic pay for a soldier who transfers to the Retired Reserve until age 60 will normally be the 36 months before age 60. Longevity service will continue and pay raises will continue to accrue. Soldiers, who elect discharge before age 60, will have their highest 36 months of basic pay based on the date of discharge. Longevity service stops and future pay raises will not be considered.”
Yep, that’s why I chose the Retired Reserve over complete separation at 20+.
MrBill is correct. If you opt for discharge, you will be discharged – and any pay raises (both annual and longevity) happening after your discharge will NOT be applied to the base figure used to calculate your reserve retired pay when it starts at age 60. If you opt for placement on the reserve retired list, you will get those.
Case in point: a MSG who retires with 22 years for pay purposes from the USAR and who opts for discharge at age 40 would miss out on 19+ years of annual inflation adjustments – and would also miss out on 4 longevity pay increases (over 24, over 26, over 28, and over 30). Since time on the reserve retired list counts for pay determination purposes, someone who transferred to the retired reserve instead would get all of those increases applied before their retired pay was calculated. The difference can be huge.
Only downside I can see is the possibility for involuntary recall if still medically qualified to serve during a time of extreme need. I don’t personally that is very likely, but you never know.
For what it’s worth: this guy probably wasn’t tripped up by a TIG to retire in grade requirement. The 3-year TIG requirement for an officer to retire at their current grade only applies at O5 and above. At O4 and below, only 6 months service in grade is required. (10 USC 1370)
However, a different part of Federal law – 10 USC 3911, which has apparently been in effect since 1980 – requires a minimum of 10 years commissioned service for retirement as an officer. I’m guessing he didn’t have that much service as an officer, so reverted to (and retired as) his highest enlisted rank held prior to being commissioned.
This is unfortunate, but not entirely new. Much the same happened after Vietnam, when many folks who were prior enlisted but went to OCS and received a commission during Vietnam ended up getting RIFed afterwards. Many ended up reverting to enlisted status to retire. Fortunately for them, the 10-year commissioned service requirement hadn’t yet become law, and they ended up retiring at their highest grade held.
Addendum: FrostyCWO is correct that the minimum period of commissioned service can be waived down to 8 years by the appropriate service Secretary. For the Army, 10 USC 3911 gives SECARMY the authority to do so until 30 September 2018.
The 8 year waiver is discussed in the briefing slides linked above.
SECARMY also had limited authority to permit a delayed release date (on to 90 days) to permit officers to clear the 8 year bar. He has exercised that authority for 22 officers who qualified.
Also in the slide deck is a reference in the US code that these former officers can request upgrade to their highest rank held when the hit what would have been their 30th year in service.
Also, see SECARMY Directive 2014-17 regarding formal implementation of being able to retire as an officer with 8 years of commissioned service.
Regarding his retirement as an NCO, once his time on the active duty list plus time on the retired list equals 30 years, he can apply to the Army’s Grade Determination Board to be advanced on the retired list to the highest grade held. This will then fix his retired pay and retired ID card.
True story. On bivouac and we’re pulling out. There was an open three holer that somebody put in a clearing easily seen from the dirt road. No one used it and for good reason: There was nothing but solid ground beneath it. Anyway, we’re pulling out when the radios start to cackle. There, in plain sight, sitting on the three holer, looking as stupid as can be, was our only ring knocker. We laughed so hard. (Of course, he probably made general.)
On an FTX in West Germany, my platoon leader, the Pride of West Point, Patton reincarnated, got us lost, because he couldn’t read a map, apparently didn’t know that the top of the map is north, and refused to listen to his driver(me). It took us 6 hours to reach our bivouac, and the mother fucker blamed it on me.
As I’d been to the spot the week before with the platoon sergeant, and four other times on FTX’s, he pulled me aside and said he get the matter “resolved”. Must have been some conversation between him and the C.O., they made the LT the supply officer after the FTX.
Sounds like two of the most dangerous things in the Army. One,a LT with a map and compass and two,that same LT saying “based on my experience,we should do it this way”.
Yep, “based on my experience”. That’s always funny when you have someone who’s experience consisted of LDAC. Or as one of the Squad Leaders in my Company once said, “I’d love to meet the idiot who decided it was a good idea to put Privates in charge!”
These may be true, but it seems like every time I got in trouble as a platoon leader and company commander it all started with an NCO saying ‘don’t worry sir, I got it’ or ‘sir, this is NCO business’
Dude would’ve been better staying enlisted and retiring as SSG or SFC.
Things have changed. When I went from Army to Air Force in ’72, there was a Buck Sergeant in our shop who had been a C-130 Navigator and Captain until the post Vietnam draw down. At that time he was the most laid back E-4 I had met. Why? He said he would retire at his highest rank, plus 1, as a Major when he pulled the pin. He could have cared less about testing for E-5 or if he made it or not. Just did his job and kept on keeping on, low speed and under the radar. I guess that Officer retirement program went away.
Sparks: pretty sure it did. I’ve read that the requirement for 10 years total commissioned service to retire as an officer was added to Federal law in 1980. I’d guess it was done when DOPMA hit the books and made major changes to how the military managed its officers, but I’m not certain.
I personally knew a guy in a similar situation. He was prior-enlisted, went OCS during Vietnam, made CPT, then got caught up in the post-Vietnam RIFs of the mid-1970s. Since he was prior enlisted, he was entitled to revert to enlisted status and finish 20. My recollection is he reverted to E7 – not sure if that was his epre-commissioning rank or if he got some type of “constructive credit” for his time as an officer. He did his last 2-3 years, then retired.
Damn good man, just a case of very competitive environment/wrong place/wrong time.
Just remember boys and girls, the Army will never love you as much as you love it. They will take better care of their dogs than they will their soldiers.
So it so often seems. Alas …