The minimum wage discussion
Yesterday being Labor Day, the President took the opportunity to shift the discussion from the myriad issues he’s facing to the minimum wage. From CBS News;
“I’ve got a vision of an economy where opportunity is open to everybody who’s willing to work hard,” the president said. “I want an economy where your hard work pays off with higher wages and higher incomes and fair pay for women and workplace flexibility for parents and affordable health insurance and decent retirement benefits. I’m not asking for the moon! I just want a good deal for American workers.
“…If we had a Congress that cared about policies that actually helped working people, I promise you we could get everything done that we talked about doing,” he added. “But until we have that Congress its up to us to fight for those policies.”
I’ve earned the minimum wage exactly twice in my life – when I worked at a grocery store while I was in high school and again when I worked two minimum wage jobs while I was going to college. One job was with Pinkerton as a security guard and my wages went up after I worked there 90 days. The other minimum wage job while I was in college was as a work/study in the campus Veterans’ Affairs office – that one didn’t increase.
So who are we talking about when we talk about minimum wage workers? According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, they’re only about 4.3% of the work force – the lowest number of minimum wage earners since the Bush Administration;
Most of them are in the food service industry, you know, those folks who get tips to augment their low wages;
And more than 25% of them are high school- and college-aged;
The number is so insignificant, why is the President even mentioning it, you know what with all of the other issues that he’s facing? Probably because he’s a community organizer and the other issues are hard, but this one is fairly easy – all he has to do is act like it’s more important than it really is so people think he cares. It’s all an image thing. Stopping global terrorism, the invasion on our southern border, well, that’s hard stuff. Looking like you care, well, that’s easy.
Category: Economy
There he goes again.
Jonn clouding the issue with facts.
I haven’t worked for minimum wage since high school. Even though in my late 30’s I spent 7 years out of my trade. I just worked two physically demanding jobs and received pay commiserate with that effort.
“But until we have that Congress its up to us to fight for those policies.” And then I love, “I’m not asking for the moon!”
Well yes he is. Just like the ACA and how well that healthcare fiasco has gotten off the launch pad. Obama has no clue what he is talking about. he is laying out sound good solutions to feel good issues and that’s all.
Higher wages, higher income, affordable healthcare, decent retirement benefits. Wow, sort of sounds like what was promised to the military and we see how that went.
So let’s pay minimum wage folks $15 per hour, free healthcare, free childcare, free retirement benefits and let’s see…that should be a before tax income of about $40 to $50 thousand a year. (Rough estimate) Not bad work if you can get it. But with Obama’s hand in our pockets I’m sure it can all happen…right?
But it’s not his fault America that you don’t have these pie in the sky lives. It’s Congress’s fault. Always is unless he can lay it on Bush.
it is not about the minimum wage, never has been. It is all about the Unions trying to increase the wage rate overall. If the minimum wage increases, they can then argue for a higher base pay for more “skilled” union workers during negotiations.
It doesn’t matter that our economy is pretty well stagnant, and that we have lost a huge number of real quality jobs overseas to China most of all…
Let’s placate the minority of folks who are making minimum wage, and give the Unions what they want. That will certainly make their lives better, as the cost of everything else increases too.
^^^this.
To burger flippers–you want $15/hr wages? Provide $15/hr value.
Oh, and look at SeaTac workers at what happens when you get that magical $15/hr.
Exactly, this is being pushed by the SEIU, who wants their foot in the door at McD’s, Burger King and the rest.
The low-info folks who work there don’t realize that once their wage gets raised, their numbers will go down, drastically. Those places will become drive-through only, with one order-taker/cashier, one cook, one cleaner and a supervisor who is responsible for about 10 stores. The food will set under warmers for hours, the customers will stop coming, and the places will close. But, they will have earned “the big bucks” for about 3 weeks, before they got fired.
If we had a government that didn’t make it so easy to export manufacturing jobs the actual opportunity and wealth creation for the middle class would still exist.
A simple reality of the decline in manufacturing contribution to GDP is the increasing wealth gap between the middle class and the wealth upper class. That has historically been a problem, not just in this nation but in the entire world.
Some of this is certainly attributable to the reality of an information age world as opposed to a manufactured goods world, we need less stuff and it costs less thus some decline in actual contribution was inevitable. However a realistic “free trade” agreement with a 3rd world partner is a difficult process that may never benefit the 1st world partner if the 3rd world nation doesn’t increase its standard of living within a generation. Most “free trade” agreements of this nature create an almost instant trade deficit with the new free trade partner. That deficit number needs to be considered as it will always have an impact on wealth creation for the middle class or lower middle class blue collar or skilled labor force.
In the absence of manufacturing there needs to be an understanding at the policy level of how the nation benefits from a service based economy. For many countries there is no real benefit to the lower 85% of the population as the upper 5-15% tend to gain the bulk of the wealth while the lower 85% lose ground. Without manufacturing the service industry jobs that create wealth are the trade skills, but if no one is building the need for those trade skills are also lessened.
A nation of service industry jobs where we all wash each other’s cars and serve each other’s meals doesn’t create wealth, it just moves existing wealth around in a relative zero sum game. Increasing the minimum wage does nothing to alter that reality, but it makes for a great sound bite.
VOV…Once again, thank you and said much better than I.
Well put, VoV. Anyone with an ounce of sense could see our economy slipping when the steel industry fell in the 1970s. With the increasing flow of manufacturing jobs going overseas there’s nothing left but near minimum wage jobs in the service industry. My über patriotism may show here, but I’ve always felt that those (traitorous) companies that move well paying manufacturing jobs overseas should have their products taxed at quadruple the rate when they come into the US. So that ten dollar widget that costs ten cents to make in China will now cost four times as much due to the import taxes. Those extra taxes could go to fund job training and small business loans.
What I keep hearing from one side of the argument is “this is a starter job, its not a career!” While at the same time thinking about the movie American Beauty, “There are no manager positions available, its only for counter. No no, that’s okay. I want a job with the least amount of responsibility possible.”
Along with the minimum wage increases and the ACA BS, the administration is forcing business in the US (except of course those that donate to the DNC and kiss Barry’s 4th point consistently) to follow the “feel-good” policies and not the “Capitalism” policies, which they should be free to follow.
Only two months left, hopefully the continuation of stupidity happens until then so people will vote Harry Reid out of his throne in the Senate and make it a Republican Senate to counter the crap being spewed by the White House.
He lost everyone when he said the words “hard work” instead of “handout”. Right now it doesn’t matter what the plan is – if it involves some of the people actually having to work, it ain’t gonna happen.
Everyone knows that when Obama says “hard work”, he’s doing so with a wink and a nudge.
“The Obama Ode to America” and his first love, John Kerry. (Apologies to Johnny Cash’s song “What Do I Care”.) Little humor here folks.
“When I’m all through if I haven’t been what they think I should be.
If the total isn’t high enough when they figure me.
When I grow old if there’s no gray from worry in my hair.
What do I care? What do I care?
What do I care just as long as John was mine a little while?
When the road was long and weary he gave me a few good miles.
What do I care if I miss a goal because I make a slip?
I’ll still be satisfied because I tasted his sweet lips.
What do I care if YOU never have much money?
And sometimes YOUR table looks little bare.
Anything that I may miss is made up for each Kerry kiss,
You love me and I love me, so what do I care?
What do I care just as long as John was mine a little while?
When the road was long and weary he gave me a few good miles.
What do I care if I miss a goal because I make a slip?
I’ll still be satisfied because I tasted his sweet lips.
What do I care if YOU never have much money?
And sometimes YOUR table looks little bare.
Anything that I may miss is made up for each Kerry kiss,
You love me and I love me, so what do I care?”
Obama does love himself folks and fortunately everyone around him, loves him too.
In between graduating from high school and military service I worked at a McDonalds for about one year. I was a shift mgr when i left. When i saw a guy on tv claiming he was a cook there and still making min after 18yrs my first thought was not sympathy. It was that he must be dumber than a box of rocks. Few workers make min.If they continue to do so its because they are lazy or too stupid to do something else with the former being mostly the case
I agree, Jon. The ones whoa re screaming the most for a increase in the minimum wage would appear to be those who are too damned stupid to do anything but flip burgers, or too damned lazy to further themselves through school. Their lack of ambition should not be a reason to give them more than they deserve.
One thing that isn’t mentioned in the argument are the seniors. I know many who work minimum wage jobs to supplement their social security. Raising the minimum wage could put them over what they’re allowed to earn, forcing them to either quit working or take a cut in their SS benefit.
Maybe you guys should ask Cody Stermer what he thinks.
Kinda hard to catch him between his weekend “secret skwirel” missions.
His time at Arbys has made him a changed man.
There is a difference between working for min and using the job as deep cover.
Like I mentioned before, if you want a decent wage WORK for it. I get around 20 an hour, to get that I’m a state certified firearms instructor, DOT certified alcohol and drug tester, trained in advanced first aid, have a clean criminal history, be able to get a state armed guard license, must have a CDL, and a few other certifications. I don’t give a rats ass about how little you get at your dead end job. I’ve been there and I did what was required to find a better job. Also like obomo says WORK HARD, slackers that don’t WORK or try to better themselves don’t deserve to have a wage close to mine. This is my non-humble opinion and in the words of Eminem “If I offended you. GOOD, because I still don’t give a fuck” Get a job and WORK you slackers.
Commander Phil Monkress at All-Points Logistics works hard stealing from taxpayers and cleaning two-holes.
He deserves to have his holes cleaned by Bubba and Thor in an 8×5 padded room.
Also, most of the people that work for him do not seem to know who he is.
That says a lot about the quality of his work.
I just crawled out of an OCB 20 minutes ago. Pay in this field starts around $30/hr. Dangerous and hard. But it’s a sure way to clear $100k annually with only an associates or a couple years electric experience.
Same here. I’m a relay technician, and I can certainly vouch for the wage scale.
Sure, it’s not glamorous, sometimes the work conditions suck (like running test equipment in the rain like I have been today), but even a moderate amount of OT will guarantee a minimum of $125k, and if you don’t mind sucking it up and being on the road, $200k total (salary, vehicle, and per diem) is certainly doable.
All that for a workable knowledge of math through trig, some Physics, and a shitload of safety training.
I do ok as a power plant operator, a skill I learned doing a job that was considered punishment by everybody else in the US Navy. Everybody says I am lucky to have such a high paying job. I tell them luck has absolutely nothing to do with it. I also developed a secondary skill as CWI and boiler inspector on my own, not to mention my artillery skills from the guard. I do ok for a guy that started in the workforce with an 8th grade education.
Yeah I love relays. I work for a testing company though, so some days I get transformers or OCBs/GCBs.
In a couple years I’m making the jump to a plant.
When McDonalds has to start paying the guy running the register $15/hr, McDonalds will quickly start buying systems that allow the customer to order and pay without the employee.
This will create a closure of the two bottom socio-economic classes that will in turn spark class resentment.
IE: A man that drives a forklift or that uses his back (construction) for a $15 dollar/hour living will not be inclined to tip a waitress who makes the same.
Just an observation.
It will also, by intention and design, inflate the already unsustainable numbers on the welfare system.
This goes hand in hand with the administration’s creation of “street teams” that work the cities to convince even working folk that they, too, need food stamps… and the several hundreds of millions spent on advertising agencies to “de-stigmatize” welfare and food stamps.
They’re already doing that.
I should get out more.
Here’s one that cooks fries:
http://autoequipllc.com/
One that cooks burgers and burritos:
http://www.neontommy.com/news/2014/01/burger-robots-and-burrito-vending-machines-shake-fast-food
Maybe the same one that does custom made burgers:
http://momentummachines.com/#product
Couple those up with touch-screen ordering kiosks, and all the owner has to have is maybe one or two employees for cleaning and stocking, and one technician for the franchises in a given area.
YOU WANT $15 an hour for frying hamburgers? MEET YOUR REPLACEMENT!
*BEEP!*, *click*, *whirrrrr*…
Just another step towards liberating the majority of the people from their jobs.
More and more people being supported by less and less is definitely sustainable. /sarc
And remember, you can cut those stats in half because they are stated as a “percentage of hourly workers”, and hourly workers only make up about half the overall work force (self-employed, salary, commission, etc., make up the rest).
Raise the min.wage and the price of all of the jobs to get any products. The price of the product go UP with the wage. Anyone for a twenty- five dollar hamburger. Joe
I worked at a textile mill for an hourly rate of $2.50/hr in 1974 after I left the Navy. Someone persuaded the employees to strike for higher wages, and the place closed with no notice to any of us. The company had been sold to a Japanese company.
After several other jobs that gradually paid better, because they were skilled jobs like prepress graphics. That all went out the windwo when my skills were no longer needed, so I switched to new skill sets and worked as an A/R clerk for 17 years, until I retired, with my ending rate at $22.50 per hour.
Now except for the textile mill, my jobs all required real skills. They paid reasonable rates for the 1980s, something like 412.50 to $15/hr. None of them were anything like car repairs or road repairs, which paid better and also required training in those skills, but they were and still are labor intensive and required real skills and training.
Handing someone a receipt at a cash register after running a card through the reader is not a skill. My cat could do that, and he’d do it for treats and catnip. And handing someone a bag of sandwiches is not skilled labor, either. It’s the bottom of the barrel, the job you get when everything else is gone.
So someone please explain to me what it is that makes this braindead twit who wants people in unskilled jobs to make more than I earned in a job that required real, complex skills and dedication to doing a good job.
And no, I do not feel sorry for anyone who says he’s spent 15 to 20 years working at McD’s for $7.50 an hour. It’s a teenager’s summer job to get work experience. It was NEVER meant as a career for anyone.
You might want to run that by Cody Stermer.
My last minimum wage job was as a sophomore in high school at a place called Big Cheese Pizza.
It was 1982, and the idiot customers only played two songs on the jukebox: Joan Jett’s “I Love Rock and Roll”, and the J. Geils Band “Freezeframe”.
To this day, if I hear either song on the radio, I change the station or turn the radio off. Does this mean I can claim teh PTSD?
There might be something to that. I went to Margaritaville in Key West about 6-7 years ago. I was talking to the bartender and asked him how many times a day he heard the song. He told me that two years before he started working there, an employee was found in his apartment OD’d on painkillers and Margaritaville on repeat. Not sure if there is any truth to it, but that’s the story anyways.
If those were the only 2 songs that were played then you have my vote
I went to a McDonald’s in France a couple of months ago. There were three employees doing food prep, one person working a counter, and 6 electronic DIY terminals. You just selected what menu items you want, and the system sent the order to the back. I guarantee you that system is coming to the US if the minimum wage is raised to $15.
On another note, $15 is ridiculous for minimum wage. Hell, I know cops who make less than that. Since when is working fast food supposed to provide a living wage anyways? Like others have said, if you want something, work for it. Don’t expect to have it handed to you. I really feel for some of these people.
Ah, McDonald’s in Paris. Actually went to one near the Louvre. And yes, they did in fact have a “Royale with Cheese”, and I just so happened to be wearing my UC Santa Cruz Banana Slugs T-shirt.
I’m like the rest of you. I had a job in high school that paid 2.37/hour. I also babysat for a buck/hr and I cleaned houses on Fridays in summer. When I joined the Army, a 24/7 kinda job, my salary was barely 6k!! When I became a college grad, my skill set was Lab and Phlebotomy. I made roughly 9 bucks an hour…Let me tell you, when we took a pay cut of 170k, before taxes, with four kids and a mortgage, we made it work. We kept our house, life and marriage. I don’t want to hear about the whiners who do not understand what menial labor and its worth really are. You can have a life on minimum wage, but sacrifices are the key.