Pentagon: Lejeune shooting was negligent discharge
Stars & Stripes reports that last night’s shooting at the Camp Lejeune gate between guards was accidental;
“Indicators point to a negligent discharge situation,” Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren told reporters Wednesday. “It appears right now to have been an accident.”
Both Marines were on duty at the main gate of the North Carolina base when the shooting took place inside a small guard shack at 5:30 p.m. local time, said Capt. Joshua Smith, a spokesman for the base.
The Marine was shot once in the chest with an M4 rifle, he said. Following immediate resuscitation efforts at the scene by first responders, the Marine was declared dead 40 minutes later at Naval Hospital Camp Lejeune.
Category: Marine Corps
““Indicators point to a negligent discharge situation,” Pentagon spokesman Col. Steve Warren told reporters Wednesday. “It appears right now to have been an accident.””
A negligent discharge is not the same as an accidental discharge.
There is no accidental discharge of a weapon when the corps is concerned that’s why. User error is user error and is always negligent as far as they are concerned.
Thank you FatCircles0311 for pointing that out. Will save our non-Marine brothers and sisters from wondering.
If you didn’t mean for the bang stick to go off, it is negligent.
The only thing even close to an “accidental” discharge I’ve ever seen is when I had a cookoff during a defense live fire.
ND =the user caused the weapon to discharge.
AD= the weapon discharged due to a malfunction of the weapon ie broken sear, cookoff, slamfire.
Accidental discharges due happen, they just are extremely rare these days.
Yeah I didn’t like the COL’s use of the word “accident”.
BLUF:
ND – finger on trigger
AD – no finger on trigger
Where was the supervision?
This is bad.
“Accidental discharge” was dropped from the military dictionary a while ago. The shooting may have been unintentional, but if you point a loaded weapon at someone and pull the trigger without intending to you there were a few things you screwed up that you know you shouldn’t have done.
Yeah, no.
Some branches are notorious for ND’s and not giving two shits if it occurs. One of the most dangerous places in Iraq during my deployment was the clearing barrel when certain branches came on the base.
Sadly we had two idiot NCO’s on post playing quick draw resulting in one being shot on the deployment. The guy that did it got a BCD as he should have gotten. Had a PLT SGT ND while paroling shooting one of his NCOs in the back of the leg with a shotgun. He was quickly removed. Had a PFC on a fire and maneuver range who shot himself in the foot too.
I don’t know about other branches, but the biggest offenders of the ND that I’ve seen is officers clearing their M9.
Had a General Officer do it twice into a clearing barrel on a deployment. Once word got out, our Regimental Commander put the stripe back on a Corporal he had busted for an ND. The Colonel said, “if the damn General aint being held accountable son, neither are you”.
“…the biggest offenders of the ND that I’ve seen is officers clearing their M9.”
No truer statement could have been made. I’ve been witness to that on at least 5 occasions, 2 of which happened the same day at the same clearing barrel. Can’t speak to whether anything came about it in terms of punitive action… we just made it a point to stay away from that thing when officers were around.
DITTO when I was in A-stan, but if an EM had one, it was usually an instant Article 15, not sure what happened with the Ossifers!
Had a buddy lose his e-5 over a ND, m-4 at the clearing barrel coming back into FOB Justice in 04. First response was from my squad leader. “I didn’t k ow we brought the LT with us”
Had an e4 lose her stripes for clearing barrel fun at Rustimiyah in 08.
She just happened to hand her My to her driver, who cleared it, handed it back up to her by laying it on the roof of the truck, she didn’t take it, we move out and it falls off….
Should be M9, stupid cell phone autocorrect.
FatCircle0311, are you by chance an former 3/8 Marine? I think we were in the same place at the same time that the Platoon Sergeant shot his NCO. Did it occur in a country that begins with an H and ends in aiti??
Yeah.
I was in 3rd platoon.
Small world, huh?
You aint lying. I was the assistant ops chief for the Regiment during that deployment. I served in 3/8 several times in some capacity from the rank of Sgt to MSgt.
Honduraiti?
Where the F is that?
Just east of Paprikastan?
I remember in 2004 standing in line for chow at Camp Victory when two female airmen were struggling to clear their weapons. They weren’t loaded, but the two couldn’t figure out how to lock the bolt back. It looked like they hadn’t touched a rifle since Basic. The line was a couple dozen deep by the time someone walked them through it. The airmen thought the whole ordeal was hilarious. A week later I’m clearing my rifle and a CW3 walks behind me and clears his pistol on the back of my head rather than wait for his turn. He disappeared in the crowd before I could jump his ass.
A couple years later back in Iraq our battalion always had a few ART 15s in the works for NDs. The only guy who popped off a round and got away with it was with the BC at the time. His rifle was slung over his back at the clearing barrel and somehow his gear pulled the trigger.
I even got to witness an ND during Hurricane Katrina. Some federal LEO was clearing his pistol at our field hospital and fire one off. He then freaked out and ran away. It would have made for a great Youtube video.
One dead and one ruined. Very, very sad.
Indeed.
Yes, it is. Nobody wins in this case.
There is a reason that PMIs, Coaches and Range Personnel are compltete and unforgivable dicks about weapons saftey.
This is what happens when you “play” with a weapon. In my opinion anytime you dont have positive control of where that weapon is pointing, aren’t aware of it’s ” condition” and have your finger on the trigger you need to have it taken away and be issued a wiffle bat, because you are treating it like a toy.
In the early 90s we had two deaths due to negligent discharge. One was a guy who bought a pistol into the barracks whose “friend” was playing with it and shot him in the femorial arty. The other was when a Cpl of the guard, showing off in front of his Girl friend at the guard shack.He did a quick draw and put a round though the upper lip and out the back of the head of the Sgt of the guard.
When I was AD on Benning in 1994, some Soldiers in a nearby unit had a 9mm pistol with them in their barracks while they were drinking. The testosterone fumes were thick that night, and there were dares about having their pictures taken while the weapon was locked, loaded, and cocked with their finger on the trigger and the barrel to the side of their head with their finger on the trigger. The camera flash made one of them flinch just hard enough to pull the trigger, one Soldier lost. The owner of the weapon was despondent about his buddy, took the weapon to his room,… and another Soldier was lost. Things like that lead to higher-ups disarming GI’s in their spare time, but like Ron White said, “YOU CAN’T FIX STUPID”, you can only delay its eruptions.
When I was at Spangdahlem Air Force Base in Germany, for me, being in a Signal Corps unit, life as a Private First Class in the United States Army was pure HEAVEN! I was a Field Radio Relay and Carrier Equipment Repairman (MOS 31 L 20) in Team A-2, 11th Air Defense Signal Battalion, 32d Army Air Defense Command. But, for some of the other soldiers, they apparently weren’t so fortunate. The Nike Hercules missile batteries that surrounded the Air Force base were isolated, lonely, and boring. These air defense missile batteries were protected by sentries on duty in towers located around the perimeter. One night, being so bored, and looking to have a little fun, two of the men in the guard towers began shooting at each other with their M-14 rifles, seeing how close they could come without actually hitting each other. Unfortunately, one of those guys got killed. Time went by, and I eventually went to the Republic of Viet Nam, where I eventually became assigned to the 101st Airborne Division (Airmobile) “Screaming Eagles”. As a new guy, even though I’d already been in the Republic of Viet Nam for six (06) months, having been previously stationed in Saigon and Dong Ha, it was the policy of the 101st Airborne that EVERY new troop, regardless of MOS or experience, must complete “P” Training at Camp Evans (located between Hue and Quang Tri) in the Screaming Eagle Replacement Training School (i.e., “S.E.R.T.S.”). During the course, which was identical to today’s Air Assault Qualification Course at Fort Campbell, Kentucky, our graduation exercise was a helicopter assault on an actual enemy position. At some point during our training, we had to complete a lengthy foot patrol, through fields and jungle, in which we would also cross a river. The 101st Airborne had some standing orders, i.e., we were to take no prisoners, and our M-16 rifles were always to be carried at hip level, in the “Ready” position, with a round chambered, and “Safety” off. After our foot patrol, as we approached the entrance to the camp’s perimeter wire, we… Read more »
John … You are a treasure … Don’t die anytime soon … You can die … Just do it a long time from now!
MCPO
In 1984, at Palmerola Air Base Honduras, the Honduran Gate Guards used to jack around with their Uzis and once put a round out through their guardshack into the street. Never thought that U.S. Marines would be capable of the same.
Hey, anything Hatians can do, Marines can do better!
But seriously, weapons fuxups happen in ALL the services. In part because we don’t train the troops enough….
Oops, I meant Hondurans….
Who-ever.
And some people say 5.56 doesn’t have stopping power…
GoldenDragon…Roger, I hear that loud and clear!
Just found out the deceased Marine is the son of a Marine who served with my brother. I hope they can come through this ok.
I hate that this happened, my thoughts and prayers are with both families. This poor SOB has to live with the knowledge that he took a Shipmates life.
Keep the bugger off the band switch.
I have to wonder about muzzle discipline at Lejune,
I remember two cardinal sins from my time involving weapons.
1. Never ever leave your weapon out of reach or unattended by a gear guard.
2.Never flag anyone with your weapon, even when drilling or doing weapons cleaning. If you flagged someone on a live fire range your ass got booted and/or had the biggest shit detail they could find.
No such thing as an AD. If it is a discharge because of weapons malfunction it should have been caught during a PMCS or during a functions check in 99% of cases. It constantly amazed me that I was the only one who seemed to do a weapons functions check every time I drew a weapon when I was on staff. a trick/TTP learned from my very first PSG (Thanks Smoke!). Also every time we cleared weapons 2 people did a visual check of the chamber.
That said I have always wondered why squeeze the trigger is the last step of the clearing process. That’s just asking for a ND. All of these can be solved by the first rule of weapons safety never point a weapon at something you don’t want to kill. Also some blame can be placed in the kinder gentler army. At CTLT I was doing reflexive fire with a Sapper PLT. dumb excited cadet (first time doing it) I was I forgot to put my weapon on safe before I did a mag change. The ass chewing is something I will never forget as long as I live nor should I. And you know what that little ass chewing goes though my head every time I touch a weapon.
Another observation: one if the reasons for this is our Soldiers are in many cases scared of carrying with live ammo because they never do in garrison. I am a big fan of blanks being issued every time you go to the field just to get used to going though the red/amber/red cycle and carrying a weapon with a mag in it.
You train like you fight, and you fight like you train.
I gotta ask this question, but I need to emphasize that it is NOT a statement of fact, supposition, or even hearsay:
Could this be another instance of that insanity called The Trust Game?
Seems the Corps was having a bit of a time quelling that particular bit of stupidity a little while ago. Just wondering if that may be the case here.
http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/article/20090907/NEWS/909070304/Can-deadly-8216-Trust-game-stopped-
It is difficult to imagine that a highly trained Marine would be so careless as to condition 1 the rifle and have it accidentally fired. My heart goes out to the family of the killed Marine. Semper Fi.