Troops Forage for Food While Golfers Play on in Shutdown
Okay, so this reporter was never in the military, but other than Army Posts suddenly becoming Army bases and Commissaries becoming grocery stores, the point is the same…
Grocery stores on Army bases in the U.S. are closed. The golf course at Andrews Air Force base is open.
The CinC needs to play golf more than you active duty guys and gals (and retirees) need to get groceries…..well, you can just go off “base” and pay more for that turd sandwich covered in awesome sauce…since you’re still getting paid by the almighty’s good graces and all…(Should I close the sarc tag here?)
Category: Dumbass Bullshit, Politics
Yeah, best I can tell most DoD-run golf courses are NAF activities. They’ll be open, since their funding is still intact – for a while.
Commissaries, on the other hand, are appropriated fund activities. So the troops with families (and retirees) get screwed while those that like to play golf can go on with their recreation as usual.
If it were up to me, the military would close every damn golf course it had. Tomorrow. Permanently. The land they occupy (and the resources they use) IMO could easily be put to much better use.
OF COURSE B. Hussein 0bama’s golf course is open, why should self-coronated wannabe royalty like him have to do without? Sacrifices are for us peasants!
Because the federal shutdown includes the Bureau of Indian Affairs, I heard on the radio this morning that the furlough effects not only services on the reservations, but the money that goes to Indian foster families for their foster children.
Who gets the title of “baby killers” now?
There is going to be a very hot spot in hell for the bastards who are deliberately hurting people like this. They haven’t shut down “non-essential” services; they have very carefully cherry-picked the closures / furloughs to cause the maximum amount of pain to us, without any risk to them. They haven’t cut any money to anyone who might possibly riot and burn the damn city down around their ears, no. They’ve cut the services and money to the people who will tiredly, resignedly pick up and go on as best they can.
Well, the scumballs have until about Oct 17, when the debt ceiling comes into play again. If they f*ck that up, then that pain they are so gleefully spreading around on our bread will butter their own, as well.
“..and pay more for that turd sandwich covered in awesome sauce…”
What a way to start the day!
Again, 800,000 workers aren’t at work today.
And again, life goes on. So what have we learned here, boys and girls? Are we callous dickweeds, or are we recognizing that a lot of government simply isn’t necessary? We pay taxes to feed a beast from which little if anything of value is returned to the people.
The powers that be know this, and they know the people are beginning to awaken to that fact.
And it scares the living shit out of those petty tyrants. To which I say, “Good!”
So who does make the call on what service to cut? Is the “Great Imposter in Chief” or is it at the Cabinet level?
I just fired off an email to my Congressman bitching about the bureaucrats closing boat launches on the Columbia River which is just total Bullshit.
Actually, I used to shop off post for just about everything buy milk and meat.
The PX/Commissary does not carry generic items. As an old prior service guy, I learned how to stretch a dollar.
Still do, actually. However I get some locations are a little more difficult to get off post and shop.
A lot of them are bases now…
JBLM – Joint Base Lewis-McChord
JBMHH – Joint Base Myer-Henderson Hall
I could go on and on…
PintoNag – Ted Cruz. He cause the shutdown, so any hardship on the rez is his fault too. Get ready for that message from the MSM.
mail call at boot camp and MCT is cut. the “random-ness” is sickening.
PX/BX are open (so I’m told). Troops without transportation cannot go off-post shop. Commissary prices aren’t that great, but if you’re isolated on on-post, you don’t have any other option.
I agree with Hondo. Golf courses are only good for morning PT runs.
Here’s a link to the list of what MCCS facilities are opeon on Camp Pendleton during the shutdown. Thought you would all like to have the info. Alot of facilities are NAFI dollars and not affected by the shutdown.
http://mccscp.com/shutdown
Just FYI.
Well. Well. Well. I just read truth. Cold. Hard. In.Your. Face. Truth. PN: I liked it so much, I’m reposting it:
“There is going to be a very hot spot in hell for the bastards who are deliberately hurting people like this. They haven’t shut down “non-essential” services; they have very carefully cherry-picked the closures / furloughs to cause the maximum amount of pain to us, without any risk to them. They haven’t cut any money to anyone who might possibly riot and burn the damn city down around their ears, no. They’ve cut the services and money to the people who will tiredly, resignedly pick up and go on as best they can.”
Sparky
My wife works for DoD and yeah, her job is pretty important….not day-to-day critical, but important. She is at home at the moment and if this drags on it’s going to be felt. We just got married and I haven’t sold my house yet. I can’t make both house payments AND the other normal bills out of my paycheck alone. I don’t expect it to get to that point but eventually we will have to choose which house payment to make. I’m not looking for sympathy, it is what it is, but when you see who is deemed critical and who is not, you have to say WTF?
Indeed, PN. All true. But, those tired folks who have been carrying the load all this time have pretty much had enough of it. Some will simply join the freeloaders. There may be enough left with the will and the skills to turn this mess around.
My curiosity is in overdrive anticipating a showdown. Soon.
Hondo and others nailed it, golf courses are NAF, as are all on base fast food facilities that are not concessions. No impact. With regards to shopping, Wal-Mart and a few other big box stores offer decent pricing on a temporary basis. We went through this in 95 and it was a paid vacation after all was said and done. Yes it brings a temporary hardship but it is time to stand up to stop the spending and maybe salvage an economy for our grand children. Should have been done a long time ago. Suck up up and quit bitching.
Remind me why the federal gov’t owns any golf courses to begin with?
OT–government does have vital people in it. Government also has a boatload of people who exist there only because 1–McDonalds wasn’t hiring that week, 2–union rules make it nearly impossible to weed them out.
Consider this: The federal budget for FY1963 was $111.3 billion dollars. If you tie that to the CPS, assuming the standard of 1982=100, with Oct 1962 = 30.4 and Aug 2013 = 233.877, you then have a budget of $856.3 billion in today’s dollars. The (estimated–because nobody’s passed a budget in almost 5 years) federal budget for FY2014 is supposed to be $3.88 TRILLION. That’s an expansion by a factor of nearly five.
And what have we gotten for it, pray tell? We put people on the moon. Today, we have to rely on the Russians to get us to space. Poverty is at its highest level in decades. Unemployment (particularly the U-6) is the worst it’s been in decades–and if you figure in those people who have just given up, it might well be the worst since the Great Depression. And we have a bill that is going to basically nationalize one-sixth (or more) of the national economy to feed not the people, but the BUREAUCRACY?
What could possibly go wrong?
We don’t have a commisary where I am stationed and we don’t get COLA. We don’t get COLA because there is a commisary at Ft. Ben Harrison even though that is 40-50 miles away.
My apologies for the long post, but this is everything affected at JBLM: 1) Funds for Troop Appliance Repair/Replacement does not exist. This means the appliances you currently have in the barracks are all we have. We don’t have the ability to fix or replace any that are broken or damaged. 2) The Commissaries will be closed starting 2 October 3) Madigan Medical Center a. During the government shutdown, Madigan Army Medical Center’s priority will be to ensure there is minimal impact on its beneficiaries and health care delivery. b. MAMC has identified health care services that must be maintained inorder to preserve the safety of those we serve. Consequently, all inpatient and wounded warrior care activities will continue as normal during the government shutdown. c. Patients will still be able to schedule medical appointments for most outpatient services, and none of the scheduled appointments will be canceled. The appointment line at 1-800-404-4506 will remain open for beneficiaries to inquire about their appointments and for those in need of urgent “non-emergency” care. Pharmacy services will also remain open at all locations. d. Non-emergent elective medical and dental surgeries will be curtailed during the government shutdown. Impacted patients will be notified personally of any changes. 4) Waller Hall will be opened with significantly reduced services: a. Casualty Assistance Center under normal hours b. ID Card Section- Closed. Four contractors will re-locate to McChord Field Building 100 to provide ID Card services. c. Retirement Services Office- Closed d. Transition Processing Center- There will be reduced operations. Contractors augmented with Corps G1 at Waller Hall will provide separation packets to be completed by service members. DD 214s will be completed and mailed to service members at a later date. e. Reassignment Processing Center- There will be reduced operations. Contractors will provide briefing information. (Currently 760 personnel are in orders/PCS process. They will be delayed until either the shutdown is lifted. We are working a mitigation strategy with Corps G1 and and 593rd. However, that will not be in place for a number of days.) f. Official Mail- Closed g. Visas/Passports- Closed h. Soldier… Read more »
@17 – the government doesn’t own the golf courses. That’s why they’re open. They exist on military facilities (sometimes…the Navy/Marine course in Hawaii is on public land) and are paid for out of Non-Appropriated funds (read: not having to be authorized by Congress/paid with dues, surcharges, etc). Mostly MWR functions.
And, although commissaries are closed, virtually all of the food concessions on base/post are open as they’re also not Appropriated Funds. I understand that most dining facilities (DFACs/Galleys) are open and operating. While I’m abhorred at the shutdown and it’s impact, troops are not “foraging for food”. All of the PX/BX/NEX stores are open and most food concessions are available (bowling alley/BK/McD/etc.) Isn’t that where most single troops eat anyway ?
The commissary at Great Lakes is on Green Bay Road, off base, but it’s closed right now. Most of the Navy’s family housing is off base.
While the commissary is closed, there is an Aldi store nearby and a Walmart superstore a little further away, and they’re always fully stocked. And Walmart takes coupons.
It’s going to get drastic around here, though, if this is not resolved. However, the last time this kind of stalemate occurred, Slick Willy Clinton waltzed in and put a stop to it with his own CR legislation, and the expectation is that bodaprez will do the same thing.
Yes, hold the people who do the real work hostage if you like. Do that. It’ll come home to roost soon enough.
Hey now, as a junior enlisted guy, I really enjoyed the golf course, and was very happy to have an affordable place to play.
@21: Yet other facilities that aren’t paid for by the gummint are closed since they reside on gummint land. It’s directed shutdowns to “make it painful”, as PN said.
I understand that OPERATIONS of the golf courses are offset with non-appropriated funds, NavCWORet, but the federal gov’t still OWNS 234 military golf courses that I’d wager have lots of hidden costs, including at a minimum, removal from local property tax rolls.
So, you’d remove the golf courses that aren’t paid for by the federal government, regardless of the shutdown ? These courses that allow military members relaxation (although not the way I play) and exercise (for those who walk) and provide them with something to do besides hitting bars, so that they can be given back to the surrounding communities ? How does this benefit the military member ?
@27: I wouldn’t jump that far that fast, but I’d certainly be interested in seeing the numbers. How much do they REALLY cost vs. how many servicemen use them. I’d bet they’re a bigger expense than is let on and there are probably public alternatives in many of the locations. I’d be open to being won over on the topic, and frankly I hope that you’re right about the courses pulling their own weight. But looking at it as a taxpayer as well as a veteran, I certainly start from the position that golf courses aren’t a critical component of our national security! I played some of the courses while serving, and I agree they can be a nice diversion, but they’re certainly a luxury and are perhaps an extravagance. Saying that owning the courses is “free” because it’s federal property is just like the Post Office not accounting for building costs because the property is owned by the federal gov’t at large and not USPS.
All of the military courses I’ve ever played are money makers. They NEVER run in the red. Always difficult to get tee times unless you’re the first one to call when the times are available. They also frequently have restaurants in them that cater to the general public and make some money. Could the actual space be used for other things ? Sure. Ft Meade, MD turned it’s course into a new facility for some other government tennants. I’m sure others can, too. But even though I haven’t played in a few years, I have no desire to shut them down and force military members or retirees to start paying the much higher costs for municipal or private courses.
However, we digress from the original point of the post….regardless of whether golf courses are open/closed, their usage has NOTHING to do with the government shutdown and is simply inflammatory headlining posting by some reporter to make it sound like troops are out hunting the streets for food because the commissaries are closed, without regard to the myriad of other food sources that are open and widely available. No one is going hungry and any troops assigned to barracks have many food sources to choose from which are very much open for business.
Yep, the Commissaries here in Hawaii stayed open until 1930 on the First. Then shut down.
…..and overseas commissaries remain unaffected and open.
Here is a thought. Keep everything open. Everybody shows up and works. They do what they can and put off what they can’t. When this is over, they get payed. Appropriated funds can be spent as required and things are almost normal. These things never last more than a week or two and staying open negates the restart costs. If it lasts a month we are good and truly screwed anyway. After the shutdowns I remember we were paid for the lost time. Except that the military people had to show up and work during the shutdowns. Only the civilians took time off. This whole thing is about screwing the taxpayers so Obozo can look tough in his pissing contest with the House Repubs.
For everybody’s information, Army golf courses are Category C NAFIs, which means they must be financially self-sustaining. There are some exceptions for remote locations or installations affected by BRAC, but that’s the general rule. I can’t say that all the Services operate that way, but the Army does and I suspect it’s the same throughout DoD.
NavCWORet, Cliff Clavin: military golf courses are NAF and thus must be self-sustaining in therms of operating costs. It’s my understanding, however, that they receive indirect subsidies in at least one – and, generally, two – important respects.
1. Since Uncle Sam generally owns the land on which the golf course is located, I’m reasonably sure they do not pay local property taxes. This means they don’t have to include those property taxes when determining greens fees, other prices, etc . . . .
2. If located on a military installation, they also get local security services gratis from the installation as they’re “inside the perimeter”. In an otherwise higher crime area, that is a significant savings – private security guards are expensive.
I’m not positive, but I believe the actual buildings on DoD golf courses are sometimes if not generally government-owned as well (and may well have been constructed using MILCON funds – again, I’m not positive about that). If so, that’s a third major subsidy DoD-run golf courses have: no mortgage costs.
I’m guessing they also get favorable utility rates, since they’re probably charged by the local installation for utilities on an actual-cost basis – which is likely lower than they’d pay if purchasing same from their surrounding community.
Bottom line: DoD golf courses pay their own operating costs via NAF. However, they appear to receive a substantial indirect financial subsidy on their total cost by virtue of the fact that the government owns the land and they thus don’t have to pay property taxes. There are also other indirect subsidies.
IMO DoD has no business running golf courses and should have quit doing so decades ago in CONUS. Your opinion obviously varies from mine.
No do, I don’t necessarily disagree with you. I think you’re right about the indirect APF support and it’s more than reasonable to argue that we don’t need to use DoD resources to offer activities readily available off post in CONUS. At least not anything as big as a golf course. Can we at least save the bowling alleys and AAFES movie theaters? Not much else to do for troops lacking off post pass privileges(which I’ve seen revoked for entire units before).
Cliff Clavin: I don’t have a problem with most NAF/MWR activities. That’s particularly true of those (like theaters, PX, gyms, bowling alleys, and the like) that seem to make a substantial contribution to military family welfare and/or troop morale.
Golf courses have always struck me as the exception. They’re typically (1) used by a very small fraction of troops, and (2) are heavily used by retirees. Because of those factors, I just don’t see much in the way of a contribution to troop or family welfare or morale there.
Not my call, of course. If it was, there would be one helluva lot of p!ssed-off GOs/FOs, O6s, former DoD SES-types and others (and/or their wives) out there looking for a place to play their next round of golf.
Good points. Maybe I’ll organize a chapter of Occupy Wall Street for my installation golf course.
Cliff Clavin: IMO, not a particularly good idea – unless you’re looking for a way to get ‘invited’ to retire/otherwise leave DoD employment pronto. (smile)
Seriously, DoD-run golf courses are a good “bennie” for those who enjoy the sport and have the time and $$$ to play. Unfortunately, my perspective is that’s a very small minority of those serving. IMO the resources involved would be much better spent on other MWR-related or operational needs.
I think you should look at your local military course and call them. Find out from them what their constituency is a mix of. I’ll be you find that there are way more active duty playing than you think. And, their use by GO/FO/SES isn’t as prevalent as you may suspect. When I played regularly, I almost always had AD partners. AD also has the pick of the tee times for weekends, as they get to call in ahead of any other category, at least at the Hawaii Navy/Marine Corps course.
It’s usually those who don’t play who have no issue with them being shut down. Quite east to miss their value when you don’t use the service itself. I don’t bowl or use the clubs much, but I’d hate to see those that do lose that benefit. Yes, they may have some indirect subsidies like land usage and breaks on utilities, but let’s not forget who they’re intended for: military members and their families of all status…those who are active and those who have already earned the right to play (retirees).
Hondo, I have to say that some of my fondest memories of my time in the Navy was playing golf. While we were undergoing refit in Newport News, my shipmates and I would play pretty regularly at Ft Eustus and Langly AFB. Ft Eustus was a beautifully wooded course where you regularly saw deer while you played, and Langly had a beautiful golf course, where I remember watching F-15s take off and land while we played. The greens fees were adjusted to your pay grade, Officers paid more than Enlisted and civilians paid the highest fees (don’t know if retirees paid based on their highest rank held, never asked.
Of course, that was a looooonng time ago, but I imagine the rules are pretty much the same now.
The point here is not if golf courses on military installations are appropriate, the point is should the commissary be closed while the golf course is open.
Of interest to our active duty readers, I read a communication from SAM’s Club today that they are extending free memberships to military personnel for the duration of the shut down. I thought that was classy.
For the record, I played a lot of golf…1 to 2 times per week…
I might have played golf but for the fact that I worked as a caddy as a 12-year old. What I learned was that women were cheap and the men were pigs. I learned more of the shady side of life while caddying than I ever cared to learn at that age.