Kerkorian comes clean
Just yesterday we published the FOIA of Waukegan Police Chief Robert Kerkorian, the phony SEAL. Ex-PH2 sends us the latest news from the Lake County New-Sun.
The statement, which was accompanied by a military service record summary, added that Kerkorian entered the Navy in 1986. Kerkorian said he was selected for SEAL training but was honorably discharged in February 1987 without having started BUDS school.
“On my application to join the Waukegan Police Department, I indicated that I was a SEAL trainee, which is a true statement that does not mean that I was awarded a pin as a member of the SEALS or that I finished seal training, which takes 26 weeks behind basic training,” Kerkorian said.
Kerkorian added that “I did misrepresent my Naval service. This was wrong of me and accept full responsibility for statements that I made to my fellow officer which were not true and indicated that I was involved military actions which I was not.”
In the article, the mayor, Wayne Motley, says that he thought that it was important that the truth is known, which is 180 degrees from what he said initially. In the first post we wrote about the police chief, we quoted the mayor;
Questioned about his new chief’s military record, Motley said he had not looked at Kerkorian’s personnel file and the two had never discussed his service. His military credentials are “not relevant to his employment as chief,” Motley said, describing himself as “very pro-Kerkorian.”
There are too many people out there who think that Stolen Valor is no big deal. Persistence works to overcome that misconception.
Category: Phony soldiers
Not sure your title here is accurate Jonn. In my book, the guy only came half-clean.
— break —
Dear Robert Kach Kerkorian:
Thank you for coming half-clean.
Now, could you please explain how your statement ” . . . . I was a SEAL trainee, which is a true statement . . . .” is accurate in light of your other reported statement that you were “. . . honorably discharged in February 1987 without having started BUDS(sic) school.” (emphasis added)
If I understand correctly, BUD/S is the initial SEAL training course. It is followed by initial assignment to a SEAL unit and further mission-and NEC-specific training as required.
If (as is reported) by your own admission you even never started BUD/S, I don’t understand how your claim to have been a “SEAL trainee” is valid. If you never started BUD/S, it would appear you were never a “SEAL trainee”. Rather, it appears to me that you were someone who had been selected for SEAL training, but who was for some reason honorably discharged early and prior to becoming a SEAL trainee (e.g., beginning BUD/S).
Perhaps one of our Navy vets (or Don Shipley, if he’s available) might be able to shed some light here.
Maybe we can get a SEAL to give us a rundown on the screening process for being selected to attend BUDS/SEAL training. I would think that as elite that Navy SEALs are, they would only select from a pool Sailors that have proven their mettle during their initial enlistment. In the Marine Corps, you don’t enlist to be a drill instructor, recruiter, or embassy guard. I find highly unlikely that someone may be selected for SEAL training directly from boot camp. I could be wrong on that, but the Navy has a ready pool of applicants that have already establish a track record.
“I did misrepresent my Naval service. This was wrong of me and accept full responsibility…” Full responsibility? What does that mean, that he–not his mommy–signed his PD employment application? We know that. So, does it mean that he has resigned, effective immediately? That he has at least submitted his resignation, even if his butt buddy, the mayor, will not accept it? No and no. So, what exactly does it mean to accept full reposibility for years and years of lying to his fellow officers, his superiors, and who know how many others? And where is the apology for stealing the valor, the history, and the sacrifices of actual SEALS? Screw him.
What a relief. At least his misrepresentation was limited to this one isolated incident and didn’t occur during any of his 26 years of arrests and ticket writing. Some innocent people might have been hurt.
Maybe a class action lawsuit is in order……
A dishonest Cop? Color me shocked.
Stay tuned.
The chief admitted to “MISREPRESENTING” his military service.
Merriam-Webster Definition of MISREPRESENT:
1: to give a false or misleading representation of usually with an intent to deceive or be unfair
Synonyms
bend, color, cook, distort, falsify, fudge, misinterpret, misrelate, garble, misstate, pervert, slant, twist, warp
And this guy is now in charge? The highest law enforcement position in the city.A leader?
Oh yeah I forgot…it was “a long time ago” and he is a “good guy.”
This wasn’t a claim to pick up a chick at the bar…this was a self propagandizing ego filler to put himself (in his mind) above the rest of his fellow officers and others.
Anonymous (cmt 3) I did not intend to be.
half admissions and half apologies. I doubt he was even selected for BUD/S. I would like to see his actual 214 and see the character of discharge.
Hack.Stone: I can’t speak for the Navy, but based on what the Army has done at times with SF a SEAL enlistment option might be plausible.
The Army has at times had the “18X” enlistment option (or equivalent). Essentially, that guaranteed the enlistee a chance to attend SF training and an SF assignment – ifthey passed Basic, Airborne, and SFQC. If they flunked out of either of the latter two, they were reassigned “needs of the Army”, usually 11B. As I recall, our “good friend” Michael Yon enlisted in the 18X (or an equivalent) program during the early 1980s. I think the Arkansas Congressional candidate Jonn busted about a year ago here (name escapes me at present) did the same as a reenlistment option in the 1990s/2000s.
It’s plausible that the Navy could have had a similar program in the mid-1980s (1986), but I can’t say for sure one way or another. I’ll let one of our Navy vets from that era give us the definitive word.
As an attendee of basic training at Great Lakes at the end of 1984, the only thing that I can think of that might constitute “selected for SEAL training” is the initial PT test that they did at boot camp for those who enlisted into a rating pipeline which were SEAL source ratings. Essentially, if you had enlisted into a SEAL source rating and thought that you might like to go to BUD/S, the SEALs at Great Lakes would run you through the push up/sit up/swim/run test that was something like 0 day to see if you could at least pass the initial PT test. As far as I know, that was the only way that one could be “selected for SEAL training” before completing “A” school.
Jack punches the Police Chief in the nose. Jack lies and denies it. Jack’s boss says that the charge is irrelevant to Jack’s job because Jack is a great employee, newly promoted. Months after the initial denial, Jack’s lie is evidenced. Jack says he was wrong and takes full responsibility. The Police Chief will do what? Well, if the Police Chief is Kerkorian, he’ll just let it go at that, right? Let bygones be bygones, right? Fat chance.
Still want to see his application. I still think he ‘fudged’ his veteran status on his application.
Once a fudger, always a fudger…
I found this with my google-fu:
https://www.sealswcc.com/navy-seals-naval-special-warfare-prep-school.aspx
Apparently there is a prep school that gets BUDS bound sailors on track to help them be succesful as possible, starting at boot camp at Great Lakes. Not sure how long this has been going on, and whether it was something established way back when Kerkorian was going through.
Yep. I was generally correct above about the Arkansas fake SF Congressional candidate. That was Ken Aden (search TAH using the search feature above for him to find at least 4 articles).
After a break in service, Aden enlisted for SF under the 18X program, apparently in early 2003. He washed out of SFQC in mid-2003. Erroneous orders awarding Aden an 18-series MOS were issued and made it into his records and that MOS made it onto his DD214, even though he had not completed SFQC and had no SF tab.
When Jonn broke the story, someone notified USAJFKSWCS of what had happened. USAJFKSWCS checked their records – and then issued a formal revocation order for Aden’s MOS based on non-completion of the course.
Aden ended up withdrawing his name as a candidate for Congress.
I hope the voters remember this in the next election.
As Bobo says, he does not appear to have been a designated striker, which is candidate for “A” school right out of recruit training. I don’t know if the Navy did this in the late 1980s, but when I went through Bainbridge if you qualified for an “A” school in boot camp, you got a striker’s badge to sew on over your E-2 stripes the week of graduation.
I think they were still doing that in the 1970s when I was at Great Lakes, too – you graduated as an E-2 striker and when you finished school, you were an E-3.
I have an idea: let’s ask Senior Chief Shipley.
Ex-PH2: I”d definitely like to hear what he (Shipley) has to say on this one. This “apology” from Kerkorian strikes me as more cynical shading of the truth and/or misrepresentation than any true mea culpa.
The mayor of the town sees no issue with the Police Chief telling lies…
The additional fact that they are both Democrats explains it all to me…
Looks at Hondo and says: Wait — what? You want me to call him? No, you call him.
I enlisted with two guarantees in my contract.
1.) Because of college I was promoted to E-3 upon completing boot camp.
2.) I was guaranteed a slot at AW “A” school provided I passed the swim, PT and physiology/psych exams and gained a Secret clearance.
I passed all the tests, mostly because I was a pool rat. I’d always been in the water so I was in good shape.
When I was in (enlisted 1976) and for a few years afterward, anyone who wanted to could apply for the SEAL program. I don’t remember a “pool” of specific rates, although SEALS seemed to have a number of Gunner’s Mates, Machinist Mates, Bosun’s Mates and such. The key was that you had to pass a specific PT and aptitude & swim test in order to be selected.
Even passing the tests didn’t mean you’d get into the program. They simply looked at everyone who passed and selected a number of candidates and went from there. There were only so many slots available for the classes.
Anyway, Don Shipley can correct anything I’ve gotten wrong, but that’s what I remember from looking into it. It wasn’t for me, as I really liked the AW rate and the job I had, but one of the OS’s in my division was interested so I looked into it for him.
To be honest, and it’s just my own opinion based upon my recollections, but I can’t think of any reason that the SEAL program would be interested in anyone who hadn’t gone to an “A” school and was at least a Petty Officer 3rd Class (E-4). There’s just a certain level of experience and skills (Navy stuff) that seems to me they’d want, rather than some kid straight out of Boot Camp.
As i said, I might have a couple things wrong, but that’s how I remember the selection process from when I looked into it.
@17
Nope That was the practice but ended in the late 70s early 80s.
Starting in the 80s striking was not very common. to wear the rating badge you had to complete the school. It is that way now.
Almost every new recruit gets an A school. ITs not uncommon now to see an E-1 with a rating badge.
For you non nautical brothers in arms.
The Navy has rates, They would be the same as the MOS
SO Ex PH-2 was a photographers mate 2ond Class. E-5.
E-4 through E-9 Are NCO’s or Petty officers. The Navy does not have the spec-4 so every e-4 is an NCO.
SEAL is not a rate, To my knowledge every SEAL has a rate, so while a seal may be below the rank of Petty Officer They would be rated.
Ass Hat was referred to as SN. SN is what you would call an unrated E-3. Had he completed an A school he would have been referred to QMSN, BMSN, HMSN ect.
THe Navy has 4 Groupings for enlisted.
Seaman, Airman, Fireman and Construction-man. and of those 4 E-1 through e-3 are Refereed to as Seaman, Airman, Fireman or Construction man recruits for E-1. Apprentice for e-2 and Seaman Airman ect for E-3.
I do not think The less than honest police chief Completed an A school. He was in just over six months. at least 9 weeks of that was boot. Then a wait to class up, Ect. I doubt that he was ever in the pipeline. Coronado in the 80s was 8 different commands, I do believe that the navpersdetcorando. would have reffered
(sorry it posted before I was done.)
to the amphib base, not BUDS .
AW1, you are correct.
I went to Basic in SD. Our swim instructors were Seals along with the Guys that ran the nightly exercise program to correct the actions of those recruits who needed some extra physical training. (We called it marching party and it sucked, I attended it myself twice)
Those Same SEALS worked with recruits that had an interest in Becoming SEALS. Those recruits still had to complete an A school before they could begin BUDS.
I hope a SEAL from the 80s can clarify.
I’m pretty sure that in 1986, you applied to the SEAL program while in a rating (MOS). You could probably do that after your first tour (X number of years). Certain rates were ineligible, like mine (CTI). So, you had Machinist Mates, Gunner’s Mates, Corpsmen, Hull Technician’s, etc. Now, from the FOIA, it looks like he was a striker and went to Coronado to serve at the Personnel Support Detachment, probably striking for Personnelman, Yeoman, Disbursing Clerk, etc. He may have been selected to attend BUD/S; he was right there. But, I believe the FOIA would show that he was transferred to their training command.
These days, yes, you can go right from boot camp to BUD/S; they even have special companies at RTC full of recruits that are headed that way. SEALs have their own rating these days, Special Operator, just like the SWCC guys have theirs (SB), EOD (EOD), Navy Diver (ND), etc. Those communities always had a variety of different ratings in them before.
George (CTIC(SG) (Ret))
Enigma and Jorge/George, this question is to clear up something for me.
In 1967 at Bainbridge, we were told that the rank of Commodore was no longer in use. A Captain went directly to Rear Admiral. After college in 1972, I re-upped and found that between 8/1970 and 5/1972 the rank of Commodore had been restored to use. Now I find that what used to be Commodore is Rear Admiral (Lower Half). It almost seems like the Navy changes its mind with the weather report.
Keeping that in mind, is it a likelihood that an EOD-PO could transfer to the SEALs program at some point, even if they don’t do that now?
PH2 – Yep, I’m sure that could happen, but unlikely. I’m pretty sure those communities/rates are CREO group 1; the EOD enlisted community manager has to release an individual to the SEAL community. At least, I think CREO groups still exist :-)… I’ll have to ask the former TECHAD in my office. Anyway, even back in the day, I am very sure there would have to be a very good reason for the EOD community to release an individual.
Thanks, Jorge. That clears up that question for me, and it is related to Dempsey’s recent statement about putting women into SpecOps groups like SEALs. I know that the Air Force has women doing EOD disopsal. I found that video on YouTube. I’d assume that women are also in EOD, because they’re already working as SpecOps Navy Divers.
PH-2
Its more complicated than that. Commodore never went out of use. It has been used to designate A senior captain that was in command of a group of destroyers for example since the 50s.
It is a rank as well as a Title, not unlike the custom of calling any commanding officer of a ship captain no matter what his actual rank.
Remember that a Rear Admiral Lower Half had 2 stars? One star was always a Commodore. It is in use again, I kind of always thought it had something to do with One star Generals saluting a 2 star Admiral only to later find out they were the same Rank.
EOD is one of the new SO (new as of 2006) rates. So that being said I think that there are SEAL qualed EOD.
@PH2 – Yep, there are female EOD in the Navy. There was one taking Arabic at DLI when I was there as an instructor a few years ago.
@Wesley Wilson AKA Enigma4you – EOD and SO are two different ratings, but both are Navy Special Warfare. Now, there may be EOD-qualified SEALs… it just makes sense. Again, I think this would best be answered by a SEAL or EOD Tech.
Enigma, it almost seems like the Navy can’t make up its mind, that’s all. I never saw anyone with just the single broad gold band and no accompanying smaller gold band until 1972, and I did ask about it then. Ditto the stars – not until 1972.
Jorge, that makes sense, because if you work as a salvage diver or DRV diver, you’d need that training anyway. I just wanted to make sure.
My thanks to both of you.
I know that Navy Terms and traditions can be confusing as hell to most other Branches. I grew up Army. My dad was Career Army so its how I grew up. He was of the Korean/Vietnam Ear and even after his Retirement Continued working as a Unit Tech for the Army Reserves. My brother and I having been exposed to the Army for most of our lives Decided to rebel and Join the Navy. My son Joined the Navy for his own Reasons. Non of us were or ever claimed to be anything other than what we did. My Father worked on trucks, then later in administration. My Brother was a Bosuns Mate. I was an IC (Communications Electrician) my son works on Helicopters. I was injured during my enlistment, I was discharged as a result of that injury. I have never used the VA nor do I have any plans to. I dont need it, the way I see it is there are so many men and women who did serve that do need the VA services that me using them takes away from those that have no other option. There are so many people that for one reason or the other dont complete training or make it through boot camp. Its been my experience that the majority of those could have stayed in if they wanted, they were given a choice and chose to quit. They live with that regret the rest of their lives. So many of those people then start telling stories or claiming merits they did not earn. They know that they failed but instead of moving forward they lie about the past. This Police Chief is a great example. HE Joined the Force, and Moved up through the Ranks to Lead his Dept. His tall tales have now ruined him. He will try to Justify his action with other half truths or Comment that this has in no way affected his Job. One Day he may understand that he is no better than the Thief he arrest. What he has stolen is not a… Read more »
Well, my concern is that the people arrested by him and convicted for a crime may decide that his lying has invalidated whatever he said under oath — and it may — and will file for either a retrial or to get their convictions overturned.
It’s not saying he wasn’t a good cop. There are enough corrupt cops to give every one of them a bad name. He should have kept his silly mouth shut, because now, whatever he did as a police officer has been compromised because had to feed his ego.
At the time he would have been in, there was no specific Seal rate, He would have carried the specialty in parentheses after his rate and rank, BMSN(SEAL).
There is now a Seal rate (SO) Special Warfare Operator, that is stand alone, all by itself.
Been a long-time lurker, just wanted to throw that in to clarify the rate for Seals. Love the work you are doing on Stolen Valor.
I have served for just shy of 20 years so far. 15 of that in San Diego. Never been in Combat, executed 5 deployments (on ships), never been boots on ground (went to Kuwait once, to an amusement park), proud to serve my Sailors. I am currently the CMC (Senior Enlisted) for an aviation squadron (MH-60R’s), and previously served as a Fire Controlman (FC), which is weapons control for missiles/guns.
PH2
You Nailed it. If his background was ever brought up in trail then he would be guilty of perjury.
I dont believe their are as many corrupt cops as people want to think. Most of those Men and Women are honest hard working people. I do believe that it takes a larger Ego to do that Job but the same can be said of many other professions.
The few corrupt one that their are cause the public to mistrust all of them. We hold Police to a standard that is much higher than we hold even ourselves to. The vast majority of the time they not only meet that standard but exceed it.
How does one get honorably discharged 6 months in and then able to pull a police officer job?
I’m even more curious about this guy’s history now than him just being a phony baloney SEAL.
MCPOs , am I correct in remembering a c ompasiate discharge under honorable upon death of one of their parents? Joe
FatCircles0311: a compassionate discharge and one for physical disability are two that come to mind – though the latter would call his suitability to serve as a LEO into question in my book.
I’m not positive, but I believe certain other early administrative discharges that in the 1960s and 1970s previously carried, shall we say, somewhat pejorative connotations were receiving honorable discharges by the mid 1980s.
It’s also possible he received a general (under honorable conditions) discharge. In many jurisdictions, that does not disqualify an individual from state/local government employment. I believe IL is one of those jurisdictions, and that in IL only a general (OTH), BCD, and DD would be considered disqualifying.
Bottom line is that he probably technically qualified under IL law to apply as a vet, provided that his discharge was either (1) general (under honorable conditions) or (2) honorable.
I remember an old saying; A man that will lie to get a job will lie to keep it. He will lie to protect his lies and he will lie to protect the lie and himself. In other words a liar is and always will be just a liar. A liar has no business running a Police Department. Or a nation, for that matter.
He’s no different than Shane Ladner regarding integrity. Once he’s a proven liar, then any testimony they have ever given is suspect. Any testimony they give on new cases is worthless. Any defense attorney would shoot holes in any case he made.
A cop can never recover once they have lost their integrity. Time for him to go.
Sigh… at least if you are going to comment – then do so on the article involved… not shift to other articles.
And if military prep schooling in involved before you actually enter into the military… ah well… nobody here really cares for the truth.
Sounds like Teh Chief’s half-stepping half confession is more a deflection of blame then an admission of guilt and responsibility. And “taking full responsibility” without appropriate actions is just hot and empty air.
@41–uh, OMGWTFBBQ?
Accelerated advancement to E-2/E-3 without an A-school guarantee can come about in several ways: college credit, Eagle Scout, meritorious promotion in boot camp were some of the more common ones at that time.
Like Bobo, I too had the privilege of attending Great Mistakes School for Wayward Boys in 1984, and we also got the “SEAL PT test” offer, with the one caveat I was to hear many times in my Navy career: “Nukes need not apply.”
Again, if this guy had an A-school guarantee, he didn’t finish it before he was booted, hence no striker designation before SN. And my Google-Fu is non-functional this morning, so I am going from memory, but I don’t recall any A schools being held in Coronado–and why would they, with NTC literally 15 minutes away?
Did he show up to become a SEAL? I would find it very likely that was the case. Did he ever start BUD/S? By his own admission, he did not. This means he was 1–never a SEAL, 2–never a trainee, both of which he has claimed.
Sorry, but you fail, Chief.
@41. “Sigh… at least if you are going to comment – then do so on the article involved… not shift to other articles.”
You do realize, don’t you, that your comment had nothing to do with the article. Maybe not. So, how about that AL East, huh? It’s a battle royale and may be one of the great runs to the wire in the history of baseball.