The Purple Heart for Fort Hood victims
Derek and MCPO Ret. in TN send us a link to CNN which discusses the reasons that the Department of Defense won’t award a Purple Heart to Nidal Hasan’s victims, and it has to do with lawyer shit;
The Defense Department argues that awarding the Purple Heart to the Fort Hood victims would make it harder to convict Hasan in the death-penalty case and “deprive the victims of these crimes the right to see justice done.”
“Defense counsel will argue that Major Hasan cannot receive a fair trial because a branch of government has indirectly declared that Major Hasan is a terrorist — that he is criminally culpable,” the document states. That could lead to a delay of the case or the reversal of a guilty verdict on appeal, it continued.
“This laudable sentiment mistakenly and unwillingly supplants the criminal trial process by infusing official, formal statutory conclusions about the motive, intent and culpability of the man charged with the crime,” the memo reads.
It would make it “harder to convict Hasan”? How is that? The article continues that the prosecutors will tell the jury that Hasan yelled “Allah Akbar” while he shot unarmed people. Before the shootings, he was in communication with Anwar al-Awlaki, someone that the US government determined was a terrorist threat to the US and sent him a catered Hellfire lunch. I don’t see how it could be hard to convict Hasan of being a terrorist, since what he did is terrorism. From U.S. Code Title 22, Ch.38, Para. 2656f(d); the term “terrorism” means premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents.
I’m no lawyer, but some of you are. Maybe you can explain it to the rest of us.
Category: Big Army, Military issues
It’s been over three years already. In a perfect world, this guy would be pork-coated worm food by now.
But the O-ministration, the same people who thought it’d be a fuckin hoot to try terrorists in NYC–and really, what could go wrong with that?–do want to make sure that when the inevitable appeals come, their case is airtight.
So, will they after a conviction go ahead and declare what happened there an Act of terro and award those victims the benefits they deserve??
Idiotic reasoning on their part…
POLITICAL FUCKING CORRECTNESS AND THE GODDAMN LAWYERS!!!
This mother fucker is first, last and always going to be a God dammned Terrorist. Period. Who the fuck is defending him? If it’s an Army Lawyer, then it would suck to be him and go against all we know to be true. That makes him a tool. And the Defense Department? Perhaps they need to refresh on the UCMJ.I mean, serioulsy? Fuck me dead that this guy is getting away with it.
Jonn, ya done pissed in mah Wheatehs!!
Since they called it a work related incident many can’t even get the proper treatment or care. Shave his beard, call it exactly what it was (terrorism) and then sentence him to burn with the rest of his ilk.
No, I can’t explain it.
Hassan is a coward and a murderer, plain and simple. Now he’s afraid of dying? I can solve his problem, and quickly, too, as can many other people who come here. Have done with it, for pete’s sake, and then reverse the no PH decision.
There is much going on here and nearly all of it is politically, not legally, motivated. Of course, if the Purple Hearts were issued, that information could be excluded or barred from testimony by way of motion before trial or during trial, by objection. The inartful explanation from CNN’s secret sources in the Pentagon goes to prejudicial information that could sway or predispose the jury to a conclusion not based solely on the evidence going to Hasan’s actions. It ain’t rocket science. Whether Hasan was at the scene of the murders; what he was doing; what he said–all will be established at trial (if there ever is one before he dies of old age.) The Purple Heart unofficial explanation is, in my view, patent bullshit.
I don’t understand what they are missing out on.. I mean, having a PH doesn’t make care and all that any better, from my point of view. Am I missing something?
Here’s the short of it. If you charge a guy with Murder, Rape, and possession of stolen property, to wit, a library book, the Defendant can attack any portion of any of the charges. So, he could subpeona librarians, etc. He could come up with some argument that since his taxes paid for the books, that they were his in part etc etc etc. He could attack that charge, and hope that he can overcome some element, and build off that.
In Hasan’s case, they didn’t charge the douche with Terrorism related stuff, because that would allow him to bring in “Muslim Scholars”, Gitmo detainees and a host of other odd ball asshats, and allow him to basically put the entire War on Terrorism on trial. He would no doubt argue some idiotic crap about how the US has declared war on all Muslims, and he’s some modern day John Brown. The Gov’t has enough to fry his ass without it, so who needs that headache, or wants to give him a chance to create a circus.
The problem now comes in that in order to give the PH, you have to declare this terrorism. But again, we never charged him with terrorism. If the Gov’t charges a guy with a crime (larceny) and says “Oh, and also he is a child molester and a Yankees fan” then it basically prejudices the jury pool. Although the Gov’t never does anything on the child molestation thing, it sits out there.
In military court it is especially dangerous. They call it “Command influence” and was one of the defenses that the Haditha guys got to use after Murtha accused them of “Cold Blooded Murder.” So basically, the DoD is kind of in a shit area. And they don’t want this one to go down like the Watada nonsense and a few others they screwed up.
TSO: Hasan is not precluded from putting on a defense such as you describe in your second paragraph. If the defense case is that he was brainwashed and cultivated as a terroist agent, it is free to do so. Or are there constraints under the UCMJ that say otherwise?
#8 First off, they earned it like any other earned award. Second, since it was an act of terror, they were wounded or killed in the line of duty. Third, there are different benefits for Purple Heart recipients then those who were not wounded, i.e. different status with the VA in eligibility for treatment. I think the main argument is that they earned a Purple Heart the same as any of the wounded or killed in 9-11, or any other action in the War on Terrorism. I’ve been out of the VA loop for sometime so someone else would have more info than I do.
It’s dumb.
Hasan is being tried under the beyond-a-reasonable-doubt standard.
Purple Hearts are not issued on a beyond-a-reasonable-doubt standard. They don’t need to conduct a trial to award each medal.
We can legally hold suspected terrorists at GTMO based on a preponderance-of-the-evidence, which is a lower burden of proof. That should be good enough for a Purple Heart.
#11 Makes sense. I guess I didn’t keep up with it as much as some have. I have a PH and haven’t noticed much of a difference, but I guess it would make them feel better to be recognized. As far as I am concerned, it is just a piece of ribbon with a piece of cheap metal hanging on it, so it really doesn’t mean much to me. Thanks for the explanation.
#9 TSO- makes a lot of sense to me.
I really think it is a case of the administration not wanting to admit that terrorism happened on American soil once again, and they didn’t see it coming like they should have. All kinds of red flags and it still happened. They didn’t want to admit they failed.
Ed…checked my VA handbook:
1. They would be automatically enrolled as a Group 3 Veteran giving them a higher status.
2. They would be eligible for Combat-Related Special Compensation which means they could maintain their retirement and get VA compensation without offset.
So, it is important that they recieve this citation.
I see. Didn’t realized it mattered. VA sucks anyways lol
@10, it will largely be up to the judge, but exceedingly unlikely that he can mount any sort of preemptive self-defense sort of thing here. More likely that he could bring that stuff in after conviction during the punishment phase, but I doubt it would be so much in the regular trial.
Then again, who knows. They can’t even figure out if dude needs to shave or not.
Ed, also a PH recipient here and I agree…the VA sucks! I do enjoy being a Life Member of the Military Order of the Purple Heart. While Commander of our local chapter we placed a Purple Heart Monument beside the grinder on Parris Island. It’s one of the most visited on PI especially by the Recruits families on graduation Fridays.
I got a picture by that PH monument at PH! (I was stationed at PI my last 4 years). That’s pretty cool. Local MOPH chapter came out and did a National PH day thing for us and gave us a certificate and all kinds of stuff. I signed up right there. Unfortunately, there isn’t a MOPH chapter near me. Trying to start one.
Oh, it’s political, alright, meaning yeah, it’s going to be bullshit-based. But their logic, such as it is, dictates that you can’t prejudice the defense with such an action, which is why they’re not getting PH’s.
Sorry- PH monument at PI. They took us out there.Can’t remember if it was the year it was unveiled or not though.
@18- Just looked at the certificate. Did Purple Heart Remembrance day in 2009. Were you out there?
I was there Ed and yes we passed out certificates. I’m sure it was the year of the dedication. 2007 if my fading memory serves. Welcome home brother!
I’ve been there every year. You are probably in my group picture also.
Thanks. It was the first time I really cared about my PH… even if it was only for a day lol. To me, it has never been a big deal because I have lost guys who only got a PH. I wear it for them. But that day felt pretty cool. Small world. Welcome home to you, as well.
I was at the 2009 one. My wife wore a purple dress. I would have been off to the left with a piss-cutter and in Charlies.
I’m an old guy! LOL… I will try and find my picture of the event. We are all very proud to have this every year for the guys on PI, Naval Hospital, and MCAS. Most of us were never honored in any way and we hope y’all carry on our tradition when we are gone recognizing those in all future conflicts.
13,15; Also in some States the children of PH recipiants college tuition is free.
THIS is what we get for not double-tapping that SOB when they had the chance.
@28 Yes, and the only kids going to college free on this one will be the lawyers’.
Wait a minute. What Hassan did was a CRIME. It was not an ACT OF WAR. By giving out a purple heart, we are agreeing that Hassan was a COMBATANT engaged in ground combat. If we say this was a combat situation, then Hassan need only prove that he had positive identification that the folks he shot were US Military or accompanying personnel. OF COURSE they don’t get purple hearts.
I agree with what Ex-PH2 said in #6.
After the gov’t gives Hassan his overdose of phenobarbital, reverse the decision and call it what it is.
Suffice to say that the Hassan case displayed a gross failure of leadership at all levels and somebody has decided that giving out PHs to the victims would open a can of worms.
A political decision screwing military people…. damn near a time-honored tradition. If the President was Pope that would be a sacrament.
Entirely too much nuance for my taste when you go down the road of there being relatively more or less “bad” forms of murder. Or any other crime.
File charges and get it done – the man committed murder, many times over. Motive has nothing to do with determining as a fact that he committed murder. This one should be a slam dunk!
Convict him of multiple counts of murder. Maybe bring in motive for sentancing, but if there ever was a case where it simply does not matter, this is it.
Just for comparison, the LaBelle Disco bombing in West Berlin happened on April 5th, 1986. Libya got their ass bombed on April 15th in retaliation, and Purple Hearts were awarded to the wounded and dead on April 30th. But those were different times, I guess.
I don’t think calling it terrorism and/or declaring Hasan an enemy combatant would infringe upon his rights at a court martial. All Judge Osborne would have to do is order that this information not be raised by trial counsel, and the rest can be rectified during voir dire with the panel of Army officers. TSO is correct that a command influence motion would be filed by the defense, but again, the guy is charged with shooting a bunch of unarmed soldiers so I doubt that the convening authority would be influenced to refer the case as capital based on PH or declared terrorism. And as mentioned before, voir dire solves the panel issue.
Because the USG opted to prosecute Hasan via court martial, Terrorism is automatically off the table as a capital offense because I don’t think it is one of the codified offenses in the UCMJ. The UCMJ does authorize charges against service members for war crimes, so in my view they could have incorporated that aspect into the Murder charges ie Anwar, etc. They also could have charged him with Aiding the Enemy, a capital offense, like they did for Manning (non-capital).
So in my view, this could have been categorized as an act of terror or as a war crime. I suspect this may change once the legal process with Hasan is long over.
“Oh, and also he is a child molester and a Yankees fan” then it basically prejudices the jury pool.
Only in MA, TSO. And only if the latter applies. Child molester? Meh, the voters send those guys to Congress and Beacon Hill without a second thought.
@30
But, if Hasan does argue that it was an act of war against the US military, doesn’t that mean he can just be executed for espionage (or something similar, I don’t know what the exact charge would be) since he wore a US uniform and had a military ID?
maclave: Hassan’s lawyers arguing that his crimes were acts of war against the United States would seem to be very close to the “admission in open court” required by the Constitution for conviction of treason. However, such statements on the part of Hassan’s lawyer might also conceivably be viewed as a discussion of hypothetical possibilities as opposed to an outright admission.
In any case: Hassan can get just as severe a punishment for premeditated murder (death) as he can for treason.