Pittard hoisted by his own petard
The other day, several of you sent me links to the statement by Fort Bliss commander, Maj. Gen. Dana Pittard who wrote on his blog that soldiers who commit suicide are selfish. According to Star & Stripes, the blog post, written in January and since removed read;
“I have now come to the conclusion that suicide is an absolutely selfish act. Soldiers who commit suicide leave their families, their buddies and their units to literally clean up their mess. There is nothing noble about suicide. … I am personally fed up with Soldiers who are choosing to take their own lives so that others can clean up their mess. Be an adult, act like an adult, and deal with your real-life problems like the rest of us.”
That was written after General Pittard attended a funeral of one of his soldiers who had committed suicide on Christmas Day. I’m sure the general felt frustration and regret for the loss of life, but he wasn’t really helping the situation. Anyway, he has since recanted that statement, recognizing that his statement wasn’t at all helpful. From CNN;
After meeting with a retired military member recently about the blog, Pittard decided this week to retract the blog and explain himself, according to his office.
His retraction reads in part: “In my commentary published January 19, 2012, I stated suicide was a selfish act. Thanks to many of you and your feedback, I have learned that this was a hurtful statement. I also realize that my statement was not in line with the Army’s guidance regarding sensitivity to suicide. With my deepest sincerity and respect towards those whom I have offended, I retract that statement.”
Yeah, it was a poor choice of words, written from an emotional response and retracting it doesn’t really make it not exist, aside from the fact that the internet always remembers, so do people.
Category: Big Army, Military issues
I agree with his initial sentiments, and have had the same opinion since my Squad leader committed suicide in 1990.
His public statements did not really help the bereavement process of friends and family, but I agree with them nonetheless.
I have zero problem with the “selfish” assessment; it was the “suck it up” part that stuck sideways.
Well, yeah, suicide is most often a completely self-centered act of desperation. Knowing that may be useful in dealing with persons contemplating the deed or the survivors of someone who has done it.
But like so many things, just because it is known doesn’t mean it is helpful to shove it in anyone’s face.
I have to say that I generally (no pun intended) agree with the general.
There’s an old saying: “Suicide is the coward’s way out.” In most cases IMO that’s absolutely correct.
The chain-of-command should work diligently to identify potential suicides, and should get them all the help possible. But in the end, it’s ultimately the individual’s decision whether to face their problems – with help, if necessary – or to run away from them in the most permanent way possible.
It’s simply impossible to prevent all cases of suicide. It’s not feasible to personally watch everyone 24/7/365. Short of forcibly incarcerating anyone who’s thought to be a possible suicide risk, some will manage to do themselves in – leaving behind the problems that drove them to do so for others to deal with. And even when folks are incarcerated for their own protection, some still manage to commit suicide.
The general’s timing and choice of words IMO left much to be desired. But IMO he was also simply “telling it like it is”.
I think that Sig said it best, thee are parts I agree with, butchoice of words are probably not the best. I would have supported him a lot more if he would have said suck up your pride and get help. That is what saved me. I sucked up my pride and “asked” for help. The actual words never were able to form in my mouth, but they were able to help me when I needed it.
Since the goal of the suicide prevention programs is focused on getting suicidal personnel to seek help I don’t think his comments were in any way helpful. I think it only serves to reinforce the feelings of inadequacy that the drove the suicidal person to that point in the first place. Then they often never pursue mental health care out of shame.
It sends a message to the personnel on the fence into not getting help. If it’s pushed away then it often festers, and ups the odds for developing PTSD later in life once something triggers those memories. In those cases PTSD is more severe, debilitating, and hard to treat. They are also at an increased risk of experiencing PTSD psychosis.
Suicide IS selfish, and I know General Pittard means well. It’s just not the sort of advice you should use when trying to convince struggling personnel to seek help. It often emasculates someone having mental health problems by making their struggle an issue of willpower instead of a natural byproduct of trauma and/or serotonin production issues.
What we need here is the General Patton approach. Anyone suspected of suicidal thoughts or tendencies is immediately pistol whipped and sent back to the front as cannon fodder. End of story.
I’ve known a few people who committed suicide, one was a former student who shot himself. Often the symptoms are counterintuitive-that young man was described as almost elated just before he killed himself-which makes it difficult to prevent.
Maybe it is a selfish act, but I think desperate and hurting are also appropriate descriptors, and the Army is doing as much as it can to try and prevent it. I don’t know what the General’s intent was, but his words don’t seem helpful (is there any way to read his original blog post).
I won’t sit here and debate with people who believe “suicide is a cowards way out” because someone who says such a thing obviously has little grasp on the realities of psychology, so I’ll try to get this out in one post. Jonn, I want to thank you for posting about this, and for adding the very relevant contributing factor about the General having recently buried a soldier who killed himself on Christmas. That’s an important fact that I haven’t yet seen anywhere else (not that I’ve done a ton of digging). Five years ago this Memorial Day weekend, I attempted suicide. Until that single event I had been a highly regarded sergeant, a Forward Observer who was known for “setting the standards” in the Infantry company that I spent my military career in. After waking up in the hospital having survived the attempt, my life was forever changed, and my military career was completely ruined. Within a few weeks I was kicked out of the Army with a General Discharge, with no instructions on how to obtain mental health services from the VA hospital, and no longer being eligible for the GI Bill. I was left unable to collect unemployment benefits due to my narrative of discharge being “MISCONDUCT: SERIOUS OFFENSE”. It wasn’t until I filed online for disability that I was contacted by the VA, and was able to continue treatment. After my first interview with a psychologist at the VA Hospital, I was diagnosed with Chronic PTSD. After countless hours of individualized therapy, careful treatment my both psychologists and psychiatrists in and out of the VA, I’m finally beginning to regain control over my life. However, I’m still left with discharge papers that call my suicide attempt “misconduct” and a General Discharge, again, leaving me ineligible for the GI Bill and the benefits I need to obtain a higher level of education. It was not only my commanding officers at Fort Stewart who shared Major General Dana Pittard’s disdain for soldiers who attempt or commit suicide. I have twice attempted to appeal my discharge through the Army… Read more »
+1 KGoldy, especially your last paragraph. Thank you for sharing this.
If a solider was wounded or had a broken arm, I suspect that general would care for them more…a mental problem is a from of part of the body being broken– and we need to help fix it. The first part of fixing it, is giving a shit about the person.
I had a kid in Iraq that they put on my team part way through our tour. After he was with me for a few days and I inspected his M4, I found the bolt was missing. Huh? They took it from him because they were afraid he’d harm himself.
I worked with that kid to build him back up- I NEEDED him on my team to help do the work. We had to go outside the wire and I needed all guns working…so I got him where he actaully wanted to work for me and help on the missions….but I treated him with respect and asked his imput on stuff. (I really didn’t need his input, but it helped build him up)
After a few weeks, he was doning a great job and asking when we’d be going out again.
Thanks, Kris, good to know you’re still reading.
Thanks for sharing your story with us, kgoldy.
Perhaps you could confirm for me that something I was taught long ago is still correct – that those who look to suicide do so to escape pain and see it as the only option left. (Be it physical or emotional pain.)
If you are not comfortable answering that, I understand completely.
Meanwhile, you are among brothers and sisters here. Some of us more empathetic than others, but your brothers and sisters none the less.
And thank you for your service on our behalf.
Six months ago to this day, my oldest son, a former Marine of just 36 years age, took his own life. This despite counseling and my daily intervention to help him through his issues. (We are a still-serving military family. I’ve been to the classes.)
Our son had been injured in a car accident just weeks before he planned to re-enlist. However, because of the accident he lost the use of an arm and could therefore not return to active duty. He was devastated, his identity was wholly-tied to being a Marine.
As he recuperated, his life further unraveled. He had truck driving experience, but could not work while he recovered. Because of his unemployment, he could not afford child support payments and his ex refused to let him see his child. As soon as he finally began to recover fully, the state yanked his drivers license for not paying his child support. They were completley devoid of compassion for his situation, despite his record of service CONUS and in Bosina. My wife and I moved him into our home. He was within two payments of being “caught-up” when he died.
A good friend in my unit killed himself during deployment in 06. He was a guy that was liked by everyone. To this day, EVERY DAY, his father visits his grave. He is a broken man now, who I fear will follow the same path. Because of his suicide, the unit was left with a hole as well and we still talk about him and our loss, albeit via Facebook, since we’ve all moved on.
I think it was fair for the General to say that suicide is selfish. What I don’t think was right, was for him to tell soldiers to just suck it up. Because I know from personal experience that it isn’t that easy.
It took a 21 day stint in the Seattle VA hospital’s in-patient ptsd clinic for me to get my shit straight and no longer think about killing myself, due to major depression and ptsd related to my deployment in 05.
If there’s anyone on here who thinks about doing such a thing, don’t be afraid to ask for help. You’re not being weak for asking. I think you are being strong. Your family and friends deserve for you to not give up.
Sorry, that message somehow sent itself before I finished or edited. Consider this part II.
The BL is this. General Pittard is, from my perspective, quite accurate…though as SIG noted there was a bit of lack of tact in the “sideways” bit.
My son was selfish. Very very selfish. My three other children are devastated and all are very angry with him, especially regarding the impact his death is having on his Mother considering the fact we had all warned him what his loss would do to her and the rest of our family. Her health has degraded beyond words. This is not to say they don’t love him and cherish his memory, but they have mixed emotions where they should be none.
This is the first time I have talked or written of him since his death. My fellow military peers do not even know what happened. Right now, my effort is geared toward saving the rest of my family from my son’s act. His daughter is only three, she will not remember him. He left three little nieces behind who adored him. He shot himself in a fit of anger. A permanent solution to a temporary problem. What a mess he has left us….from broken hearts to broken lives. The general is partly right in his sentiment and wrong in his approach. There are genuine cases of PTSD and mental illness, but at its base, suicide is selfishness.
My first reaction after reading what the General’s thoughts were, was “holy shit” (pardon my language), so I did find some of the comments here rather surprising, yet understandable.
#9 kgoldy: Thank you.
http://www.topeka.va.gov/services/sdtu.asp
http://www.topeka.va.gov/Topeka/documents/sdtu-brochure.pdf
This is where I got help for my pts. This is a 7 week inpatient program and it isn’t easy to get in, but once you do it is worth it. If you need help get help, I know the VA can be a pain, but there is also the Vet Center which is much more relaxed and can do a lot of counseling without a lot of the BS that the VA has. If you are Suicidal get help, because I have lost more friends since being home than I did in Iraq. If it weren’t for my wife and son I would have became one of them. I if hadn’t started having seizures I probably would have volunteered for every deployment until I didn’t come home.
If you need help and have questions don’t hesitate to ask I will help in any way I can.
#9 kgoldy, thank you for sharing your experience. MG Pittard isn’t the first GO to have to deal with suicide. Another GO’s son committed suicide. You may have seen the GO and his wife discussing their experience. I was the Command LNO for suicides on the post. One of my own joes had killed himself – all this before 9/11. Before the war suicide was a common cause of death in the military. The taboo was at the time incredible. My first interview with the Battalion and Brigade Commanders the next day after my soldier shot himself consisted of two questions: “Why did you fail to prevent SPC X from killing himself?” “Someone has to be held accountable. SPC X can’t be. Who do you think it will be?” Then there was having to use an interpreter in all dealings with SPC X’s mother. And dealing with the CAO, and then the funeral. The handing of our Colors to the widow with the formulaic address. And the unit? I called in every chaplain in the GO-level command to flood the zone speaking with my joes. The Chaplains then, and today are my heroes. The soldiers moved on, for the most part, but the anger – even hatred of SPC X that hadn’t existed before his suicide – came out for most of the rest of the year. As a Command LNO, I got to sit in on the councils, and the investigations, and review the reports before they went into the CG. I know the stats. The demographics. Causal factors. Having lived through those causal factors myself a few times, and still being around, I’m glad you aren’t going to bore us with the psychology, such most suicides had previous attempts. It was enough to make me very cynical about it all. I’d get a call from the Training Center. Recruit tied a bootlace around his neck? Okay. Jumped off the second floor landing? Okay. In front of his platoon? That’s not an attempt or ideation – that’s a gesture. Chapter him/her and get them far away from the Army… Read more »
I too have a family member who committed suicide. My cousin was a firefighter who screwed up, big time, on the job. At the very least he would have been severely disciplined with a good chance he would be terminated. As when he was in the Corps, his identity was inextricably entwined with being a firefighter. My paternal side has a thing with being Jarheads and smoke eaters.
He left a huge hole in our entire family. My Tio is a shell of his former self and my Tia is a broken woman. The youngest of the family isn’t right, she adored him and was devastated. I’m actually glad my grandparents were already gone because this would have killed them. The worst thing, IMO, is the fact he left behind two children who have no memory of him. Jr and daughter were 3 & 1 when he did it, they’re now 12 & 10 and the only ‘dad’ they know is their step-father. He’s a good guy and is very understanding about bringing the kids to our family functions and the entire family is grateful to his widow for making sure we’re still a part of their lives.
He is right. It is the supreme selfish act. Any competent psychologist will tell you that.
Jonp, I don’t think anyone is arguing that it isn’t selfish. It’s more about the other things he said which perpetuate the stigma that keep people from seeking help out of shame.
kgoldy Until reading your comment I was just going to shake my head and stop reading the site but your story inspired me to share a little something about myself. I served from 1995 to 2005 until I got injured in an IED and ambush while we were heading to Mosul. Anyways, about a month before this I decided to reenlist again but when this incident happened there was no way I would be able to stay in. The list of my injuries were long including, Back broken in multiple places, broken humorous (spelled wrong sorry), shrapnel, Traumatic Brain Injury along with Brain Damage & Closed Head Injury, & of PTSD. Once I got out of the service my PTSD became chronic and I was diagnosed with chronic depression. When I got out I too was never told about the VA and what they could do. I was not even aware that they offered VA disability until 2 years after I got out. I am rated at %100 VA Disability once I had a VSO help me file for it. While I have never tried to commit suicide I certainly have thought about it a whole lot. Not a week has went by where I have not thought about it. Yes it will hurt your family and friends. Yes it impacts others lives. Yet what most fail to understand it the inner turmoil going on inside those who commit suicide. I do not look down on you at all for your suicide attempt kgoldy and as a matter of fact I understand what hell you might have been going through at that time since I have felt the same a lot of times. It is such a shame the military still does not have a clue how to handle mental issues except for to mock them and discharge those who have them. The military taught me never to leave a man behind, to keep my word, to have Honor, Courage, and Commitment, yet it has been proven to me time and time again that the Military does not do those… Read more »
@ #24 While we may not have said it in the way you needed to hear it, most of us here are with you on this journey, E. There are many others who are as well. The problem for you is finding them.
Keep looking. Or at least keep going places that those you need will find you.
You are not alone. There are plenty of us who subscribe to the concept of leaving no one behind, in any form.
Suicide. . in Veterans. . this is the main reason we started our MC, The Men of War Motorcycle Club. One of our brothers, a 0311, with 7 tours, killed himself. Horrific. We believed if he had been (in civ life), part of a MC, or any type of vet club, association, he would have that support network.
Suicide kills the man, and part of each man close to that man. Our hearts go out to all parties, purest form of tragedy, its a evil, bastard, enemy, you cannot fight back against in its aftermath of each individuals passing.
I know that this is somewhat off topic but I will say it anyway.
I was looking, I mean really looking to get into the Navy. I had never thought about it before but after going through so much in my life, I said its time to truly change and have a better life. I felt serving the country and making a career in the military would be that route. I am great at IT security and I wanted to go towards Electronics Warfare or Cryptology.
Three years ago, I was in a dark place in any aspect of life you can think of. I attempted. If I hadn’t been baker acted I would be trying to enlist still. But, in reading my records, I see it all over the place. Even though they say it was an isolated incident and that I am not a threat to myself and shouldn’t be considered one, I would be considered PDQ. I went to my recruiter and I told him thank you but I feel there is no need to move on from here which would waste tax money.
I honestly, for cases like mine in which there are many more people that are ashamed to speak up, wish that there was a way to get psych evaluated and probationary period to enlist, not just a PDQ for the “possibility” that it could happen again. Hell it could happen again with ANYONE in this world, because the triggers for suicide/depression/anxiety, are not all the same.
Yes I feel defeated right now because I cannot serve along side the best, but I dont contemplate anything near it. I have to find a plan B and move on with my life, unless, like I said, there is some kind of program that comes in to play with what I said.
Maybe some of you agree on this. Maybe some of you don’t. I just feel as if I should have gotten a chance.
Good Day and God bless.
No. 11, CI Roller Dude:
Thanks for the great lesson of leadership .
The General was right. Most of us agree, and he only said what most of us Soldiers think. It is sad when so many people want to pick apart every word someone says.
Thanks again media coverage.
Get a grip, be a soldier, stop the self pity and desperation of suicide. The act of suicide is selfish in itself and does not take into consideration the emotional ripple effect on others around them. Comments about the psychology behind it and the the “broken mind” are just the coddling blanket of excuses these people need so that they can blame it on something. How about the millions of people with huge problems who actually have some sort of resolve? It takes a strong person to turn their lives around and a weak one to end it needlessly.
Man up, cowboy up, suck it up, whatever you want to call it. This country wasnt built on weakness, but its failings will be because of it.
I am amazed at the simple-mindedness of some of these responses. No. The general was not right.
“Man up, cowboy up, suck it up, whatever you want to call it. This country wasn’t built on weakness, but its failings will be because of it.”
Yeah, that what will keep people from killing themselves. Sure.
@25 Hissyspit. I’m an FNG here so I don’t recognize your tag. As such, I don’t know if you’re a vet, active or retired. If you haven’t then you don’t know what it’s like to be on an LST in the middle of the Pacific on Christmas eve or being in an FOB on your 20th wedding anniversary. How about being deployed when your 1st child is born. Unless you have been then TSFU and go back DU and put on your tin foil hat.
If leadership at ft bliss didn’t suck so bad and they treated their soldiers like real soldiers this post would function better. Treat a soldier like shit and they will feel like shit. Clear out all the shitty officers and senior ncos that hide out and promote there our here. This is dirorganized, has drug problems and units are horrible because of them doing what they want and not by the regulations, customs and curticies. Keep this simple stupid is a good quote that reminds me everyday.
I may be a little late to this but I just now found out about it. I could give two shits about this asshole or his opinion. When MG Retard was my brigade commander he had the nerve to deny my emergency leave when my father (a Vietnam vet) was dying from problems that developed from his exposure to Agent Orange. Retard’s excuse? My mission in Iraq was more important. My father died a few days after and my emergency leave was still denied. If it wasn’t for my platoon sergeant, I would’ve still been stuck in the Sunni Triangle for the funeral. I wasn’t the only one this happened to. My unit was the only Infantry battalion in the only tanker brigade in 1st ID. “COL” Retard was a tanker, and made it clear that he hated us. Any high risk mission during OIF 04-05 (Najaf, Diyala Province, Fallujah, Mosul) and we were “volunteered” to be the tip of the spear while his tankers stayed in the rear. We took the casualties and he got a promotion. Fuck that piece of shit.